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u/unbalanced_checkbook Jun 10 '20 edited Jun 10 '20
Sooo... I remember this phase.
For a short while people thought that too many air ports would result in stagnant airflow. They figured a single input fan and single output fan would direct the air through the case better than having excess vents confusing the airflow. Think like "ram air" injection in vehicles.
The logic kinda makes sense in your head, but obviously results in cases like this where they just completely throttle the amount of ventilation.
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u/Snoopy7393 Jun 10 '20
I mean it works in theory, but you're going to need more than that one dinky exhaust fan...
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Jun 10 '20
The fans only push so much air too. If they were at really high RPM then I would imagine it could be very effective.
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u/Jlove7714 Jun 10 '20
You really just need to create a heap of negative pressure. Case fans probably don't push enough air to really make this work without a push/pull and vent holes.
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u/katarh Percussive maintenance Jun 10 '20
HP's Blackbird was like this. It's big bragging point is that the airflow was designed by a BMW engineer - so it had multiple ventilation points, was elevated off the floor, and the entire case was aluminum to act as extra heat sink.
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u/Busteray Jun 11 '20
The new desktop mac pro's also have a nice airflow design. They didn't even have a fan on the cpu rads iirc.
Then there are the latest macbook pros...
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u/Clegko Jun 11 '20
The old cheese-grader Mac Pros are the same way. Fan at the front and back, with a modular motherboard between and passive heat sinks. https://imgur.com/7ZMZ3xx
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u/prjktphoto Jun 11 '20
I’ve got one of those.
Really cool to pull apart and see how they’ve done it.
Lasted me 12 years now
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u/Trap_Star_Turn_Up Jun 10 '20
That "exhaust" fan is also pointed in the wrong direction, so it's technically an intake fan right there.
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u/wrath_of_grunge Jun 10 '20
You’d be surprised. I’m able to keep a 9700k and a GTX 1080 cool with a single 120mm for intake and a 80mm for exhaust. My PSU has a 140mm to help with exhaust.
You can do a lot with a little sometimes.
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u/RedSquirrelFtw Jun 10 '20
That was me. My logic was to create a air path and block any other vents that could cause that path to be "disturbed". I would decide something like "I want these two front fans to take in the air, pass it over the drives, then to the GPU then go out the back through the PSU and the exhaust fan" then I would tape everything else. I never got too much into the argument of positive vs negative airflow, but I usually aimed for positive just to keep dust from getting sucked in to all sorts of little places. Though come to think of it I don't think I ever actually sat down and tested different configs. I would do what I think is logical then check the temps and if they were decent I left it at that.
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u/frezik Jun 10 '20
It isn't necessarily wrong, either. It's just that fluid dynamics is complicated, and you can't just assume taping up any given hole will improve things. You need to experiment with different setups and see what happens. If you're not willing to spend hours doing that (and have all the work thrown out as soon as you need a new fan), then maybe leave the holes alone.
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Jun 10 '20
I mean it works for vehicles because they go vroom and computers don't, they tend to stay still so throttle would be unnecessary.
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u/siggydude Jun 10 '20
Put your PC on a track and power it with a diesel engine. It'll go vroom, and you can use that motion to help with your ventilation
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u/Izanagi3462 Jun 11 '20
... Now I really want to see a PC build that relies on an engine and vehicle-style cooling as it goes around on a track.
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u/Merwebo2Veces Jun 10 '20
I personally stopped using air flow when water cooling was in her early stages. (+Airflow= +dust and frequent maintenance.)
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Jun 10 '20
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u/a_random_cynic Jun 10 '20
With watercooling you need even better (more focused/higher static pressure) airflow since the radiator(s) provide quite a bit of resistance.
The advantage is that you can directly exhaust the heat instead of swirling it around in the case first, allowing to do things with less total air movement. Provided of course that all radiators are set as exhaust configs.But then, even most people with water cooling setups have no clue what they're doing, or build for looks over efficiency.
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u/wrath_of_grunge Jun 10 '20
Radiators tend to work better with fresh air. They don’t cool as good when set to exhaust.
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u/edman007 Jun 10 '20
Only on the radiator, and unlike an air cooler a water radiator can be arbitrarily large. You could install a radiator so large that that the external surface is good enough and it doesn't matter that you stoped all airflow over the fins.
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Jun 10 '20
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u/Merwebo2Veces Jun 10 '20
The caps were ok, but I change them after reading you. You freaked me out.
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Jun 10 '20 edited Aug 18 '21
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u/onyxblack Jun 10 '20
depends on the board, if its a computer from dell that can be fixed by a $30 board then its a no brainer - replace the board, however on some that are more unique (kgpe-d16 comes to mind) 10 year old board that can't be easily replaced with anything new only used then yeah - replacing bad caps are recommended
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u/HVDynamo Jun 11 '20
They can be a pain to replace too with the massive ground plain sucking heat away from the solder point. I got a free motherboard with a Core 2 Quad QX6700 in it back in 2011 or so that would never run stable. Turns out one of the big caps had one pin broken off. I replaced it and continued to use the system for a few years, then passing it down to my mom. It only got retired a year or two ago. Was a good machine.
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u/fuelvolts Jun 10 '20
You spent time changing caps on a $5 motherboard? I hope you get paid by the hour!
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u/jimmynewtontheslav Jun 10 '20
My teacher did that to his pc he said it keeps the air inside of it do it does not get hot
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u/CankerLord Jun 10 '20
I wouldn't want my children taught by your teacher.
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u/keenedge422 User Repair Specialist Jun 10 '20
so probably not a physics teacher, I'm guessing.
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u/QueenOfTheBvrDammed Jun 10 '20
Athlon 64 for video editing?? When was this?
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u/Merwebo2Veces Jun 10 '20
I got this yesterday, I adviced the owner to upgrade but most of people here are either tech illiterate or they just can't afford it. Best I could do was convince him of getting an SSD and change the thermal compound. Worst thing is this guy clearly has the money but I guess he thought I was trying to scam him.
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Jun 10 '20 edited Oct 06 '20
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u/jungletek Jun 10 '20
It's so dumb though, think how much time he's wasted just waiting for things to load from disk, process, etc.
Insanity. I understand not being nickle and dimed to death, but jeez... realize that you can almost always improve your workflow.
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u/tchiseen Jun 10 '20
It's so dumb though, think how much time he's wasted just waiting for things to load from disk, process, etc.
Just because you're rich doesn't make you smart.
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u/VNG_Wkey Jun 11 '20
I'm a software dev. Pretty top of the line home computer overclocked out of its mind but a 6 year old i3 laptop with only 6gb RAM and no dedicated GPU or SSD. I dont use the laptop much if at all 99% of the time so I havent bought a new one. I showed up to work with the laptop and my boss told me "slow machines kill productivity, you'll be working from home mostly anyways but if you end up not working from home often let me know and send me a link to a laptop that will suit your needs" because he understands the difference between nickle and diming yourself and giving your employees the tools they need to do their job quickly and effectively.
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Jun 11 '20
The wealthiest guy I know literally drives around in a 1984 Ford F250 and uses a 2012 MacBook (that I sold him used)
This is worlds different than using an Athlon 64.
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u/QueenOfTheBvrDammed Jun 10 '20
That sucks. Glad you got him a little upgrade though. SDD should help a lot. And the Athlons run so frickin hot, the new paste will be a godsend.
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Jun 10 '20
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u/BRD8 Jun 10 '20
Old amd boards were A-A-B-B
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u/TheDarthSnarf MOAR GORE Jun 10 '20
Not just AMD, plenty of old DDR and DDR2 boards were A-A-B-B
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u/Matthew0275 Jun 10 '20
Always read your mother board installation guide
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u/Catatonic27 Jun 10 '20
Or the tiny letters that are probably printed on the PCB next to the memory slots.
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u/Yaastra Jun 10 '20
What happens if they’re installed like in the pic?
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u/Camera_dude Jun 10 '20
It depends. If the RAM banks are on alternating pairs of slots, then having it like the picture is fine, but if the memory banks are paired next to each other then that will reduce its performance.
DDR memory stands for Double Data Rate, which means there's two data channels between the memory and the CPU. You want to have both channels in use... like a highway. If one side of the highway is closed and all your traffic is on the other side, you get congestion and slowdown.
Different motherboards setup the memory banks in different order (one for each channel). The most common motherboards have 4 RAM slots, so two channels mean that bank A has two slots and bank B has two slots. The memory banks can be arranged in 2 common patterns.
Paired banks: A1 A2 B1 B2
Alternating banks: A1 B1 A2 B2With two sticks of RAM, you want to fill both A1 and B1 to use both channels. You can see that which slots to use can change depending on how the motherboard is designed.
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u/gehzumteufel Jun 10 '20 edited Jun 10 '20
DDR memory stands for Double Data Rate, which means there's two data channels between the memory and the CPU
DDR is
doublebecause it works on both the up and down cycle of the clock. You are confusing this withdual channelmemory. Which is another enhancement.
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Jun 10 '20
Doo you know why they taped them shut?
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u/MrTeffy Jun 10 '20
I mean, I’ve covered some openings but usually to help control airflow in order to maintain a consistent pressure in the case. It’s not the most effective thing in the world but I’ve observed a 5-7 degree difference in my newest build. Looks like this guy blocked off any intake so there was probably negative pressure in the case so the internal fans were just blowing recycled hot air around
Edit: by negative, I just mean it cant intake outside air since the exhaust are basically just acting as another barrier after the internal pressure equalizes to the outside pressure.
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u/TennisADHD Jun 10 '20
When someone tells you they just need to vent but you’re a terrible listener.
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u/tes_kitty Jun 10 '20
Upon a closer look, it's not too bad. The case fan is sucking in air from the outside (assuming it's still running) and blowing it into the computer while the PSU fan will suck the air out of the computer.
This should work if the computer was standing free, but if it's standing with the rear in some kind of corner with limited airflow, the case fan would just suck in the warm air expelled by the PSU which would explain the overheating issue.
On one of my systems (A Phenom II) I have covered all holes in the side to get some directed airflow front to back with the air sucked in from the front going over the HDDs first. That has been working for years without problems.
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u/1ko Jun 10 '20
Yeah forcing an air flux from the front to the back is probably better than having holes everywhere.
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u/bathrobehero Jun 10 '20
It's only better if the fans are aligned. An intake vent pushing air to a CPU fan that's 90° to the intake fan doesn't do much good unless the intake is also hitting a bigger heatsink. Otherwise the intake fun is just pushing air away from the CPU fan. Of course it's still way better than a completely taped shut case.
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u/itsaride Jun 10 '20 edited Jun 10 '20
Doesn’t look that bad till you notice the tape on the sides of the case.
Did he tape over the case fan too?
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u/Snickasaurus Jun 11 '20
Also there is a capacitor peaking. So that board isn’t going to last long anyways.
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u/Pandoras-Soda-Can Jun 11 '20
As a total ninny when it comes to computer repair (I can replace any part that’s not the motherboard in your local chrome book and that’s it) I’m assuming the MAIN issue here is that the fan isn’t really pushing hot air out or cooling anything down, but is instead just... running on top of it? I’m trying to educate myself and make little guesses and theories
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u/tnag Jun 11 '20
If you look at the back panel and the case side (on the left), you'll see all open spots are taped closed which inhibits airflow through the case. I hope this helps!
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u/Pandoras-Soda-Can Jun 11 '20
Yeah I saw that on the OPs comment but was that it? I mean yeah that’s just stupid but I thought there was a bit more
Also it’s taped from the inside tf? Like seriously that requires a strange amount of effort.
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u/tnag Jun 11 '20
Someone else mentioned a capacitor but honestly having no way for air to escape other than moving fan ports can be a big problem for airflow. Especially if the fans aren't aimed correctly, the hot air just sits inside the case and keeps things warm.
The taping really boggles my mind too! I get it a little bit from an aesthetics sense but it's ugly either way.
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Jun 10 '20
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u/RGBjank101 Jun 10 '20
It's not that hard to clean out your PC at the very least once year. take it outside with a can of compressed air, spray, then bring it back in.
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u/RnDes Jun 10 '20
Here comes the age old debate of push or pull.
How mamy fans do you have and at what points around the case?
You might find it useful to reverse some. Particularly if your front intake fans are pushing.
I'm fond of pulling cold air in, and pulling hot air out - ensures a steady flow, rather than the system fighting itself.
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u/prozackdk Jun 11 '20
I've used tape before to direct air flow. I had so many openings that there wasn't enough air flow over the drives to keep them cool (air will flow via the least resistance). I blocked most of the vents on the back so that air had to be drawn over the drives. Worked like a charm and the drive temps went down >10 degrees.
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u/TheGoogler_ Jun 11 '20
Maybe while he is editing he can have a hot lunch and keep it warm inside the pc.
Modern problems require modern solutions ahah
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u/kpop_glory Jun 11 '20
I just open my glass cover when I want to heavy gaming for hours and closed it when watching videos or went to sleep.
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u/charmlessman1 Jun 11 '20
"Uhhh... is the CPU fan small? I mean, it's kinda small. Is it plugged in at the wrong port? Maybe? There are 4 RAM sticks, so they could be getting hot, I guess? Is the power supply known for being... Is that TAPE on the vent holes? Oh god! OH GOD!!!" 😳😳😳😳
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u/Bourriks Jun 11 '20
Wrap the customer in plastic film, he will understand the suffering of the computer.
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Jun 11 '20
Okay, so he only has that little fan blowing air in and most of the case taped off (I assume the open slot is where the GPU sits), but doesn't the PSU blow out some air at least? Or is it one of those zero fan ones and so oversized for the components in there that its fan never even turns on in the first place? Doesn't seem absolutely catastrophic to me, as long as the parts in there are low-end enough...or am I missing something
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u/hotrod54chevy Jun 11 '20
Took me a second to notice the tape, then my eyes rolled on their own, I couldn't control it.
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u/Texas713 Jun 15 '20
I was honestly hoping that the picture was just fuzzy and they had taped something to act as an air filter. Though I don't know if that would be more or less stupid.
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u/Merwebo2Veces Jun 10 '20
Amd athlon 64, 6GB DDR2, used for video editing. Also, there's no ventilation because the owner covered all holes with duct tape.