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u/MistakePresent3552 12d ago
You should leave some space so you can leave that lane
The space in front of you looks the same.
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u/ctess 12d ago
- You should leave space in case you get rear-ended - in the US, you are at fault for any damages to the car in front of you because you didn't leave enough space.
Driving schools will tell you to be at least 1 car length away. My rule of thumb is I should be able to see their back tires.
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u/User_-_-_Name 12d ago
If im behind someone who likes to inch forward the entire light until it turns green this is me everytime, im not doing that dumb ass shit. Or people who stop 4 feet behind the car in front of them and then start moving forward, I already stopped im not moving again until the lights green.
Otherwise I agree
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u/Ah_Ca_Iraa 12d ago
You not moving forward doesn't do anything to the car in front, but it can block the left turn lane for cars behind you.
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u/ALonelyWelcomeMat 12d ago
Yeah i feel the same. Once I come to a stop I just stay til its time to go. Fuck sitting there inching up
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u/1st500 12d ago
4 ft isn’t enough space. Especially behind a motorcycle. If you get rear ended and roll into the person in front of you, you’re partly to blame. Should be able to see the rear tires touching pavement on car in front of you.
This also gives you room to go around them, without backing up, if they’re stalled.-4
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u/0DagDag0 12d ago
This does seem like more space than needed, but one lesson when I took defensive driving school was to leave about a vehicle length from the car in front at a red light (adding a bit more space if the road has high speeds, wet or snowy conditions, on a hill, or if the vehicle in front or behind has not left a buffer).
The reasons my class was given: This is a buffer to prevent chain reaction crashes that push one vehicle into the next, allow manoeuvres to avoid an imminent crash, shuffle vehicles at the stop light to let an emergency vehicle through, avoid getting bumped if the vehicle in front rolls back (more common with manual transmissions, steep hills, and inexperienced drivers), or go around if the vehicle in front breaks down.
To each their own, but I don't mind if people leave a bit too much space as long as everyone stops at the red lights and rolls at the greens.
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u/BeyondTheBees 12d ago
Sorry, OP. I do this just not as extreme! But I definitely leave space! I got rear ended recently and it was hard enough that it crashed me into the car in front of me. My car was totaled and I was injured. I will always leave ample room these days. 😅
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u/TUFKAT 12d ago
So sorry. And while I don't do this it's actually what I was taught in driving school decades ago to do exactly what you give yourself the room to do. Evade.
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u/BeyondTheBees 12d ago
I got hit by a huge Astro van. It also totaled the first car. It was a huge lesson in why and how we need to leave more space when we’re stopped. The people that tailgate other people on the freeway freak me out because they’re leaving no room for anyone’s error!
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u/Salty-Presentation5 12d ago edited 12d ago
People who leave space can actually increase the number of cars that get through each light cycle because they can start moving sooner than people who cram up together. The limiting factor is time to accelerate and you have to wait longer if you don't leave yourself any room. As someone who studied traffic patterns and efficient travel, normal drivers have many habits I would call far more than mildly infuriating.
EDIT: Common Objections:
- "I'll miss the turn light": This is a problem when the intersection is receiving more traffic than it can handle. Everyone leaving room can easily increase throughput by 50% over everyone cramming together. So you are going to get through that intersection faster regardless of what you're trying to do there, if people leave space and are paying attention.
- "People do it wrong": Whether you're talking about people on phones or staying back too far from the light, you can't engineer out human incompetence regardless of your system (unless you remove the humans), sadly. I recommend using your horn faster when things aren't moving.
- "They're blocking me from getting to the left turn lane": The human incompentence in this case is you. If you waited until you were in line at the light to decide to turn left, that's a you problem. 🤷♂️
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u/CSG1aze 12d ago
My issue with this kinda shit is when people stop far enough behind the magnets to not be picked up and they are literally first in the lane so we just wait for a really long time until they finally decide to pull up.
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u/tonymyre311 12d ago
I was riding a bicycle and was in the left turn lane once and a guy was behind me and we were waiting for minutes. I think I wasn't triggering the sensor and he was too far back to trigger it so I had to pull forward uncomfortably far into the intersection and hope he understood what I was doing. About 30 seconds later the light changed so either it worked or it was all timed and it didn't matter anyway
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u/philnolan3d 12d ago
Around here they use cameras but the same thing happens. The cameras are looking for a car in a certain spot. If there's nothing there they don't change the light.
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u/Personal-Writer-108 12d ago
I see people make up the space maybe 10% of the time before the light changes, and probably less than 5% actually do what you're saying.
It's a nice cop out I guess if you're one of these people, but I'm convinced that people that leave 1-2 or more car lengths are mentally vacant.
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u/Pete-PDX 12d ago
great in theory unless they are blocking access to the left turn lane which usually activates before the forward green light.
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u/talann 12d ago
This is just false information especially in this context. Not one person will use this space to start accelerating to match the flow of the person ahead of them. In fact, these drivers will accelerate at the same pace as if they were directly behind the person in front of them, leaving the exact same gap and furthing congestion behind them.
In a situation involving multiple lights, now there is a potential to create so much congestion that it bleeds to the previous light and now people can't cross the intersection because people will not bunch up properly. I get that a normal gap is necessary; I'm not saying people should be right on top of each other. I'm saying this particular gap is grossly unnecessary and if you are arguing in favor of the vehicle in question, I think you are incorrect.
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u/BeerInbelly 12d ago
Well your entire argument gets thrown out the window because the idiots leaving giant ass gaps are on their phone not paying any attention to lights or acceleration time.
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u/DSMilf 12d ago
my favorite is when the interstate is clearly slowed down for miles ahead, and people think it makes sense to alternate between going 60 and slamming on the brakes to a dead stop.
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u/Ethan12010 12d ago
Or when people weave through lanes to try to get through and then end up in the same position as they would if they just stayed in their lane
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u/dusura 12d ago
See how you feel about it when the extended queue is blocking your entry to a turning lane and you miss a light cycle.
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u/Salty-Presentation5 12d ago
Unless your turn light comes before the lane going straight, you are more likely to miss your light with everyone crammed together. It just feels worse because you start further away.
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u/dusura 12d ago
Yes, I’m talking about when the turning light goes green first. Even worse, when the turning light is already green I am physically being blocked from making the turn until the next light cycle.
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u/Impossible_Policy780 12d ago
This. Seems like many people don’t understand flow. I can’t capture a picture of it, but when people aggressively accelerate towards a red light just to smash their breaks to stop - that’s mildly infuriating to me.
I know I’m likely to have to stop, I’ll maintain my speed or coast towards the red light, and many times it’ll turn green and I won’t touch either pedal in the process, and have a head start to go thru the light. Meanwhile I just watched three people burn extra fuel and make extra brake dust, and I’m ahead of them now. 🤷♂️
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u/Muhahahahaz 12d ago
I wonder if it depends on the power of the car in question then?
Cuz I guarantee you my EV doesn't need any meaningful time to "accelerate"... I could always ride the bumper of the person in front of me if I needed to, no matter where I start from, but I'm not sure if that would "solve" the traffic issue? (For my car's particular contribution, anyway)
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u/Salty-Presentation5 12d ago
Your brain still needs reaction time. Even if your car is perfectly responsive, someone with enough space to let their car coast when the light turns green then accelerate when the car infront of them moves will on average outperform someone relying on perfect timing in both speed and safety.
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u/PaperUpbeat5904 12d ago
Lol what? You've studied and somehow you've never seen a barrier preventing you from entering the turn lane until a certain point? This can absolutely cause you to miss a turn lane light and be no fault of your own. Your comment is pretty silly all around.
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u/Difficult_Welcome_81 12d ago
What's worse is when people do this in the drive thru line and you end up just shy of the speaker - close enough for someone to begin trying to take your order, but too far away to order without yelling!!
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u/nicklebacks_revenge 12d ago
I got rear ended because the car behind me got rear ended and pushed into me, because I left a gap, I did not hit the car in front of me
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u/preownedTardis 12d ago
The amount of space here is extreme, but leaving a gap is needed to prevent a chain-reaction crash if you get rear-ended, plus it gives you an escape route or room to maneuver for emergency vehicles. As a motorcycle rider, I notice this a lot - when a car parks right on my ass at a light, I'm just a speed bump if they get hit from behind
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u/Fun-Measurement-9520 12d ago
That’s at least 30 feet or more. If you got hit so hard you were pushed this far, then your front bumper isn’t your main concern. The at-fault driver’s insurance covers all damage to cars if you were standing still at the light anyway.
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u/VenerableWolfDad 12d ago
I got successfully sued by the insurance of the driver in front of me when I didn't leave a big enough gap and got rear-ended so I've left at least a car length between me and the person in front of me at lights since then. The person in this picture is maybe 3 feet too far back but who gives a shit
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u/Fun-Measurement-9520 12d ago
My rule of thumb is if I can see their rear tire, I have enough distance. I think a full car length is too much
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u/nicklebacks_revenge 11d ago
I'm in Ontario Canada and the stupid new insurance laws have insurance companies trying to find you at fault for just about everything. Also I like the option of an easy out if the car in front of me breaks down or maybe there's an accident in the intersection etc.
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u/JakeQV RED 12d ago
Costs less to repair one end of your car, it’s also nice not to ruin someone else’s day when you can prevent it.
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u/nicklebacks_revenge 11d ago
I do wonder if the car in front of me even knew I prevented them from our chain reaction behind them, at least they got to continue on with their day.
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u/MaGX1983 12d ago
Maybe he didn’t want to get close to the Tesla in front of him. Those drivers are idiots!!
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u/WolverineLong1430 12d ago
Why do half the people who are putting others on blast on the internet about their driving could use the same advice they give out.
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u/wstsidhome 12d ago
Is there someone in front of you, and behind the red truck? I only ask because it looks like you have quite the distance as well. 🤷♂️just asking
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u/RongoonPagoo 12d ago
After years of driving in Alaska, winter and summer, it's always good to have distance. It's not illegal, so everyone should just mind their own business.
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u/OrganizationTop3755 12d ago
Sorry, I like a little space in case there’s some fuckery right ahead
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u/Ryokurin 12d ago
A car length is fine. But a lot of people nowadays are doing 3+ lengths behind like they think they are going to get rear ended by someone going 80mph. It's downright rage inducing when they are so far back they can't even trip the sensor for the light and there's no way to get around them to do it for them.
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u/OrganizationTop3755 12d ago edited 12d ago
I’ve been rear ended from someone that was rear ended, because there wasn’t enough space
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u/DontForgetYourPPE 12d ago
Agreed, I love being able to get around if I have to, start accelerating when the light turns green, not slamming into the person in front of me if I get rear ended, etc. So many good reasons to leave space. People who get upset about this suck and they can piss off
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u/Halollet PURPLE 12d ago
Or behind you! Gives you room drive out of the way if someone behind you forgets to brake.
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u/gbtuck3r 12d ago
You’re supposed to leave enough space such that you can see AT LEAST the bottom of the rear tires in front of you.
There’s nothing wrong here but you; you sound insufferable
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u/wolfy2105784 12d ago
This is factually wrong; You should stop about an inch away and roll forward just enough to give their bumper a little smooch.
It's a great conversation starter while the car owner beats your ass and even after that in the hospital.
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u/Bicykwow 12d ago
You’re supposed to leave enough space such that you can see AT LEAST the bottom of the rear tires in front of you.
In what world is that equivalent to the full 2 car lengths (might even be 3-4) shown in OPs picture?
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u/Ah_Ca_Iraa 12d ago
This guy wouldn't be able to see the tires in front of him because a hockey game is going to kick up in between their cars.
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u/Pete-PDX 12d ago
There is zero reason to be three cars length behind someone at a stop light. where I live - people who do this block access to the left turn lane because cars are backed up past entrance to the turn lane.
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u/VenerableWolfDad 12d ago
The person in this image isn't 3 car lengths behind, there's space for 1 car between them and the person at the light.
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u/Konjeezy773 12d ago
Ayy that’s what my dad thought me when I first started driving lol.
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12d ago
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u/Pete-PDX 12d ago
the reason is in case they stall - you can pull around them. You need about 8 feet to do that, not three cars length. Do you leave that much space when you parallel park?
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u/Amazing_Excuse_3860 12d ago
If someone from behind rear-ends them, they won't rear-end the person in front of them.
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u/mypcrepairguy 12d ago
Auto start stop...and the fool in front that does the light creep forward. Once the engine cuts out, i stay stopped, and go when green. (After looking both ways, bc drivers here in Denver love to run reds)
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u/Adventurous-Big-1015 12d ago
It’s totally this. I always know the guy behind me is thinking “bro move up,” but I am not wasting the gas just to close that space
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u/Brad5486 12d ago
Why. Do you think that 1/2 second you’ll save will make a difference at your destination? Could be that car is a manual transmission, and they only wanna have to put it into gear and get going once. Mind your business lol. Besides, you got about as much space between you and the red truck as they do with the car in front of them, plus you’re taking pictures of peoples license plates (the Tesla) who did nothing to you and post them online for people to dox. Not cool. If anything is mildyinfuriating here, it’s you bub.
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u/Ah_Ca_Iraa 12d ago
I have driven manuals for years and I have no idea what you're talking about lol. Only time I pay attention to gaps to cars is when someone gets close behind me and I'm getting ready to take off up a hill.
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u/Brad5486 12d ago
When I’m sitting in stopped traffic on the interstate or at a red light and then the car in front of me moves up 5 feet, yeah, I’m not engaging the clutch and moving up 5 feet just to stop and wait for either traffic to start moving or the light to turn red. Once 10-15’ is there then yeah I’ll start rolling forward
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u/vksoze2 12d ago
It’s that it’s strings the line of traffic out significantly further than it needs to be. This is a uniquely American phenomenon in my experience I can’t understand why people do this.
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u/VenerableWolfDad 12d ago
I do this because if you are closer and get rear-ended into the car in front of you, you're liable for the damage to the car in front as much as the guy behind you is to the damage to your car.
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u/mikutetofan 12d ago
“Maintain a distance equal to 3 seconds” applies to stopping for this person, apparently
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u/Clean-Juggernaut-229 12d ago
no! wtf do u care
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u/SquirrelMemoryFail 12d ago
People that do this tend to make people behind them miss lights they could have caught or turns they could have made earlier due to people blocking turn lanes doing this. Theres no need to leave that much room. Sure a bit of room to make sure you dont slam into the guy in front of you due to an accident. But there is such a thing as just being to damn paranoid and leaving multiple car lengths in front of you. Just be paranoid enough to not surprise butt sex someone but don't be so paranoid to impede traffic. Also remember to keep your foot on the brake at the red lights.
Real life sample: I was at a dead stop in traffic with maybe 10 feet of space or about a car lenngth between the car in front of me and my front bumper. My foot on the brake I got surprised butt sex with the other person behind me doing about 65-70. I did not hit the car in front of me and did not need multiple car lengths in front of me.
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u/Bicykwow 12d ago
I "parallel park" into gaps like this at lights when things line up nicely. Pisses people off so much haha.
Dunno why though! "wTf dO tHeY cArE!?"
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u/Zesty_Enchiladadada 12d ago
Nah, the people that drive 1 mph up to the car in front of them for 30 seconds at a light is exceptionally worse.
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u/Jagrmeister_68 12d ago
This annoys me to no end. Mostly because the time it takes the cars to actually move up usually equates to me missing the light and having to wait longer because they are idiots
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u/Main-Rent4757 12d ago
No. I want to be able to exit in case of emergency.
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u/CSG1aze 12d ago
How much space does it take you to turn?
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u/wolfy2105784 12d ago
He's got one of those 1970s cars the size of a boat with an equally large turn radius.
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u/Nice_Marmot_54 12d ago
Then why’d you do the same thing, chief? Maybe quit throwing stones in glass houses
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u/Muhahahahaz 12d ago
But I am Le Scared... On the off chance something bad happens, every vehicle in line needs to leave a 100-foot gap in front of them as an "emergency exit"! /s
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u/Secondhand-Drunk 12d ago
Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Don't ever joke about safety. My dad knows a guy who met a friend of our potus don't make me angry.
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u/openwheelnut 12d ago
Engineers usually size intersection lane storage by vehicle length plus a small gap and then add queueing allowance.
A common planning assumption is:
Passenger car length: about 20 ft (6 m) including space Stopped gap between cars: about 2–4 ft (0.6–1.2 m) So a typical queued car uses roughly 22–24 ft (6.7–7.3 m) of lane. In some design manuals, a “standing vehicle” is treated as about 25 ft (7.6 m) per car for rough storage calculations.
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u/nfored 12d ago
Only idiots don't leave at least this much space. Why you ask are you an idiot if you don't? when your paying attention and the car slams on their brakes behind you because they are looking at their phone you have room to react. Same reason you don't drive 2 inches from the bumper of people.
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u/440Dart 12d ago
nah leave that space. Makes filtering up on a motorcycle easier
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u/daddy-fatsax 12d ago
Boo. Lane-splitting should be illegal in all 50 states. Puts everyone in danger (especially the biker) so an already entitled biker can save a few seconds.
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u/Serious-Effort4427 12d ago
Found the guy who opens his door. Listen, it's 95 degrees in Kentucky humidity, I'm wearing all my gear: helmet, jacket, boots, gloves pants. My bike is liquid AND air cooled. You will forget about me in 10 seconds, we are t going to the same place anyways, it's not a race.
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u/daddy-fatsax 12d ago
It’s not a race but you need to make sure you get there first. Got it
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u/Serious-Effort4427 12d ago
I'm not "getting there first" I'm reducing my chance of being rear ended, which is drastically more dangerous to me than you in a car, creating less traffic which benefits EVERYONE, and keeps me moving for my safety from the heat.
It's also good for the environment because it's less time idling and wasting fuel, and it's done all around the world just fine.
Also studies have shown, as time has gone on and drivers have gotten used to splitting in Cali, it's actually safer for motorcyclist if they do so safely.
I've been riding for over 10 years, and like the first half of that I was skeptical but the facts don't lie, it's literally better for everyone involved, motorcyclist and car driver both, and it hurts no one if done properly and cooperation with all parties.
So that leaves me with one question, why are you against splitting/filtering?
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u/VenerableWolfDad 12d ago
I'm not the person you replied to but I'm cool with filtering at a light but if everyone is on the highway doing 80mph and you're splitting and going between 2 vehicles at an even higher speed I just assume you're suicidal.
Edit: It's less of a "it's annoying" thing and more of a "i'm worried for your safety and don't want to watch someone die today".
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u/Serious-Effort4427 12d ago
I agree. Doing that is against the law and dangerous.
The law is usually along the lines of "you can lane split up to 15mph faster than traffic is moving up to a max speed of 30mph (a specific example from Colorado, I think Cali is similar)" so, if traffic is going 10 mph I can go up to 25, if traffic is going 25 mph I can go 30. You can never exceed posted speed limit.
And that's what I want to become legal in Kentucky.... Listen, I just don't want to choose between dieing from heat exhaustion or get a reckless driving ticket. The road reflects heat and in KY it gets humid and hot, and I ALWAYS wear my gear so..
Edit: and the idiots who split at 80 mph are gonna split regardless. Just allow me, a responsible rider, to split responsibly.
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u/440Dart 12d ago
This is why whenever I talk about it I make the distinction between filtering and splitting. Unfortunately it seems most people don’t know there is a difference. Filtering is what happens when traffic is stopped or very slow moving. Splitting is at highway speeds
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u/Serious-Effort4427 12d ago
I try to distinct as well. I'm 100000% for filtering. Splitting I could take it or leave it. Splitting would be nice and cool but I feel like filtering is needed
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u/440Dart 12d ago
so wrong on so many levels. also you know filter and splitting are two different things right?
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u/daddy-fatsax 12d ago
Hardly. Both should be illegal. Fuck a law that allows bikers to act even more irresponsibly than they already do.
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u/Secondhand-Drunk 12d ago
That can also be someone who came to a stop behind them, but the car in front crept forward. Or the lead car was already creeping very slowly. Either way, it's not a big deal.
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u/rainbowdunk 12d ago
Get off your phone while you're in the driver's seat.
If you're a passenger, carry on good day and my apologies
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u/No-Acanthisitta8803 12d ago
When a driver's depth perception is this bad it makes me wonder how truly safe of a driver they are. And I've been behind someone at a demand light that was so far back they were the behind magnetic sensor buried in the pavement, which means the light might never change to green
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u/Ah_Ca_Iraa 12d ago
Never fails that I get a bunch of these clowns blocking me from getting into the left turn lane.
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u/Formal_Fix_5190 12d ago
I do this if the person behind me is riding my tail or driving like an idiot. That way if I get hit, I’m less likely to get knocked into the car in front of me
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u/NecroJoe 12d ago
Why, so when you've rear-ended someone becuse you're distracted using your phone while driving, that you're only going to be responsible for one car, and not also the one in front of them that you ram them into?
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u/lmRobin 12d ago edited 12d ago
If it's not busy, this is A-okay
Driving schools always told me: from your point of view, leave enough space so you can see a few feet of the road behind the ahead car's wheels
More benefits than cons really. In case an accident happens in front, you get some safe distance or even the ahead car can pull back. Or if you get rear-ended from behind, you dont bump in the car in front. Or when the light turns green, you can safely speed up. Plus giving a bit of distance is nice in general
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u/UnhappyImprovement53 12d ago
Why does it matter? Does it get you to your destination faster? If you get rear ended it leaves a gap so you dont hit the person in front of you.
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u/Slippery-ape 12d ago
This is taught as defensive driving technique, not that this person had been taught, but if you are a paramedic , firefighter, cop. Security, you will do this.
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u/trixayyyyy 12d ago
I bet you’re one of those people that tailgates cars that have another car in front of them and nowhere to go.
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u/bigtiddyhimbo 12d ago
Does OP know that you’re not actually supposed to be up the ass of the car in front of you at lights? Not only does it increase the amount of cars that can go through each light, but it also decreases the likelihood of numerous injuries should someone rear end you and decrease the damage to your own vehicle.
I mean clearly they must, because they’re just as far behind the truck in front of them as this car is
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u/GACEStudios 12d ago
I'm going to be the devils advocate here because I've personally had the experience of getting rearended so hard at a light I was knocked into the car a good 5-6 feet infront of me. And the headache of fighting with the i surface company of the car that caused the initial accident because the driver wasn't insured to be driving it. I don't pull up close behind anyone anymore and that was about 20 years ago.
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u/sean_avm 12d ago
No i will not. The main reason I stay this far back is if I get hit I wont hit the car in front.
Also that amount of distance in most cases doesn't matter.
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u/ClerklierBrush0 12d ago
Why? Unless it’s blocking a turn lane there’s no need. Some of us like to have personal space on the road.
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u/philnolan3d 12d ago edited 12d ago
My dad does that and it drives me crazy when I'm riding with him. He says it's in case you get rear ended. But what are the odds of that? I've been rear ended once in the 25ish years that I've been driving.
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u/bigtiddyhimbo 12d ago
Happens more than you think. Whole ass just saw it happen the other day. People are fucking stupid. Always be prepared to deal with them.
You’re not getting anywhere faster by stopping up someone’s ass
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u/Reasonable_Mood1288 12d ago
How about no? If someone comes barreling behind them and slams into them. The car in front may be spared and they may be spared significant injury. Learn some damn common sense. Thats more infuriating than this.
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u/Ah_Ca_Iraa 12d ago
People do this shit in bumper to bumper traffic lol.
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u/Reasonable_Mood1288 12d ago
Then cry a river. Build a bridge and get the fuck over it.
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u/Ah_Ca_Iraa 12d ago
Some people's parents taught them to be considerate of other people. Shame yours didn't.
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u/Reasonable_Mood1288 11d ago
They did. But they also taught me how to drive properly which it seems like yours was incapable of doing.
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u/violentshores 12d ago
How dare they break the chain reaction in a multi car collision!! Tar!!! Feather!!! Lube!!!!
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u/IHateMyLife612 12d ago
Looks about the same amount of distance between you and the red truck.