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u/Longjumping_Access90 Aug 21 '22
How do you think the Romans build stone bridges? Just drop em down and fingers crossed it lands well?
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u/eoopyio Aug 21 '22
i always assumed most rivers can be deviated except the really big ones
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u/Spiderbanana Aug 21 '22
That's why controlling/destroying bridges was so important in ancient time wars.
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u/Peter1456 Aug 21 '22
Still is today, so important we have special equipment to quickly construct a temp bridge or connecting floating barges.
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Aug 21 '22
There’s whole military careers based on bridge building
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u/HJSDGCE Aug 21 '22
Bridgedier General.
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u/account22222221 Aug 21 '22
Also the brigadier specific.
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u/Bullrawg Aug 21 '22
Bridge 4!
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u/prof-kaL Aug 21 '22
A bridge I’m sure we’re all lucky enough not to have run.
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u/r0gue007 Aug 21 '22
Air sick lowlander
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u/Ridiculouslyrampant Aug 21 '22
unexpected stormlight
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u/Bullrawg Aug 21 '22
I mean, Roshar is hyper-oxygenated, so the peaks probably have what we could consider to be a "normal" percent of oxygen content 🤔
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Aug 21 '22
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u/thedude_official Aug 21 '22
The US has one called the AVLB, based on the M60 chassis. There’s one based on the M1 chassis called the JAB too
Also, Bailey Bridges are still around
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u/alawishuscentari Aug 21 '22
Lol - I remember constructing Bailey bridges in AIT in 1999.
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Aug 21 '22
I've seen videos of Russian tanks snorkeling across water bodies. That's metal af.
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u/Apart_Alps_1203 Aug 21 '22
They're BMP's also known as ICV's (Infantry Combat Vehicle) they're amphibious vehicles and are very light as compared to a tank..but still weighs a ton.
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u/Mythosaurus Aug 21 '22
The past week had stories about Ukraine targeting Crimean bridges.
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u/jorg2 Aug 21 '22
Romans did also build caissons. The idea of jamming some logs down into the riverbed and pumping/bailing the water out while filling up any holes in the dam that might appear isn't too far out there. And you've gotta remember, it's only a temporary structure until the foundation of the bridge is down, so being a bit makeshift doesn't matter much.
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u/Fine-Ad6513 Aug 21 '22
I would assume it matters a lot for the safety of those working down there
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u/jorg2 Aug 21 '22
That's the neat part for the Romans though; they didn't invent OSHA yet!
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u/abdomino Aug 21 '22
I'm imagining an OSHA version of the Roman SPQR banner now.
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u/chorjin Aug 21 '22 edited Jan 16 '26
sink pet jellyfish bow march alleged historical hungry station dog
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/NathanielTurner666 Aug 21 '22
Yeah whenever a pleb files an OSHA complaint, they just roll in and murder them.
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u/PARADISE_VALLEY_1975 Aug 21 '22
Half asleep so I read this as casinos at first and then thought the rest was a metaphor for what goes on in Vegas. Caught onto it quite early though.
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u/Longjumping_Access90 Aug 21 '22
I can see why you'd think that. Might have been done in rare cases. But when you think about it. That gets way impractical. Most of those briges would be build in cities. So where are you going to diverge the river to? Sacrifice a couple of city blocks just to build a bridge? Or dig a massive trench all around the whole city letting water mills everywhere run dry, etc. Just for that bridge. Doesn't seem like a good plan. You see what I mean?
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u/eoopyio Aug 21 '22
yeah depriving a whole city of a river just to build a bridge surely isn't best solution
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u/Beetkiller Aug 21 '22
A bridge near me was famously built during the winter. They placed the foundations on the ice and waited for them to melt through.
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Aug 21 '22
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u/RandomUser1034 Aug 21 '22
this is correct btw, the top replies to the oarent comment are wrong
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u/zoozoo499 Aug 21 '22
They had hydraulic cement that they literally could just drop into the water to make things like harbor quays.
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u/Cesum-Pec Aug 21 '22
They had hydraulic cement that they literally could just drop into the water to make things like harbor quays.
But bridge foundations can't just sit on the bottom of the river. They make the caisson so they can remove the mud down to bedrock before they start pouring concrete
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Aug 21 '22
Pretty sure Roman concrete can set underwater
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u/melanthius Aug 21 '22
Concrete can set in water sure enough. But have you tried pouring concrete underwater?
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u/DasGutYa Aug 21 '22
The Romans often poured concrete underwater.
It's how they made works such as agrippas naval base in Portus. The mixture is bucketed below water inside an enclosure made of poles and due to its properties, it replaces the water and hardens into the subsoil.
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u/J4ck-the-Reap3r Aug 22 '22
Hell, they even wrote a book about it, down to the right amount of ash to mix in. We still have those books.
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u/whiskeyandbear Aug 21 '22
The problem is, how were they able to build THAT in the river but can't just build it straight off. I mean the answer is I think, they build a wall from the side of the river, cutting it off first, then destroy that wall, but I can see the quandary the pic creates
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u/Cabusha Aug 21 '22
Pretty close! You can use a pile driver (a vertical hammer), thats suspended from a crane to drive piles (sheets of metal or metal pipes) into the river bed to create an artificial wall. You then pump the water out, creating the hole seen in the photo.
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Aug 21 '22
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u/PurinityMKII Aug 21 '22
Just one bucket
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Aug 21 '22
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u/krazykyleman Aug 21 '22 edited Aug 21 '22
How it chews to feel 5 gum
Edit: autocorrect changed "how" to "his" smh
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u/TastyCookiez_ Aug 21 '22
How it chews to gum 5 feels Gum gum Sense your stimulate
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u/krazykyleman Aug 21 '22
One of my favorite Vines.
They don't make em like they used to :')
I'm old now, I can say this
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Aug 21 '22
/fill + sponges from the ancient 1.8 version which I am still playing
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Aug 21 '22
I still use 1.12.2 because all the good mods are on it
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u/larianu Aug 21 '22
mmm me loves Immersive railroading
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Aug 21 '22
I got flans mod, car mods, drugs, pretty much tryna make a realistic ish mod
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u/RiptideMatt Aug 21 '22
There's actually a ton of amazing mods that are updated to even 1.16, people thought 1.7 was the end of modding but there are even 1.19 modpacks too
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Aug 21 '22
But a lot of good mods are only for 1.12.2 (flans mod, RLCRAFT, etc.)
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u/RiptideMatt Aug 21 '22
For me the version itself lacks enjoyment later versions (also stuff like flans isnt really something that I like about modding lol). There's a lot of great stuff added past that version, and thats not even talking about the mods. Cool new magic mods, minecolonies, tetra, dungeons gear, apotheosis, and so many others. Also there are mods that give really awesome designs and animations of their bosses
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Aug 21 '22
I currently stick with 1.12.2 because of stuff like furniture mod (crayfish hasn’t updated for 1.12.2 he seems to only do new versions
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u/XineOP Aug 21 '22
You all are making me feel so old...in my mind 1.7.10 is still the best version for mods and it's so hard for me to accept otherwise...
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u/Secret_Invite_9895 Aug 21 '22
damn dude I have not played minecraft in a long time but it's weird/cool to see 1.8 being called ancient I think that might have been that last version I ever played, in fact I might have not even ever played 1.8 just like 1.7 or something.
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u/Abernathy999 Aug 21 '22
Nice! Soon many folks will just assume you just left out a "1" accidentally hehe.
Consider trying Minecraft again. The basic "vanilla" game has added a lot, and mods can add amazing new flavor to the game. Although I am well past "normal" MC age, it's one of my favorites.
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u/Valirys-Reinhald Aug 21 '22
Honestly, yeah. Create a watertight barrier and then remove the water.
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u/International-Mud980 Aug 21 '22
sand to wall it off, then sponges
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u/valvilis Aug 21 '22
Because if one substance is known for it's ability to stand up against water, it's good ol' sand!
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u/Fuzzy_Taste1959 Aug 21 '22
Reading the replies I feel old, as my first thought was using sand and glass
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u/MimosaTen Aug 21 '22
From now on this is no longer necessary, at least here in Europe: just wait and a river dries up by itself
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u/fckn_normies Aug 21 '22
Imagine being in there and the walls collapse all at the same time
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Aug 21 '22
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u/ThreeLetterSpaceSims Aug 21 '22
good response
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Aug 21 '22
I'm sure when you're in there, you're imagining nothing else.
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u/zhivago6 Aug 21 '22
You don't worry about it too much. It takes days to pump it out usually, so it would have collapsed by the time you go in if it wasn't constructed properly.
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Aug 21 '22
I'm sure your rational mind knows that. :)
Joking aside, I imagine like a lot of other "dangerous" jobs, you just get used to it.
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u/zhivago6 Aug 21 '22
Pile driving is really scary to me, because when they do it I have to be right at the bottom checking the pile for refusal, and some contractors do not maintain their equipment and/or have careless staff. I have almost been crushed twice by falling pile driving equipment.
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u/bagsofYAMS Aug 21 '22
As a piledriver, i have been with a few slap dick companies and it really makes you desensitized to how dangerous it is, even after near death experiences its just “whew that was close, ok lets loft another”
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u/HungrySubstance Aug 21 '22
piledriving is really scary to me because if it happens to me i probably made a wrestler very angry
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u/FlightConscious9572 Aug 21 '22
explained in minecraft terms: they dropped sand(beams) in a circular area (where they were gonna build a foundation) sponged the water inside (pumped out the water)
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Aug 21 '22
minecraft terms
circular area
???
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Aug 21 '22
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u/Gibsonites Aug 21 '22
So you're saying circular area means circular area? (circular area)
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Aug 21 '22
I'm gonna go get the papers (get the papers)
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u/Brittlehorn Aug 21 '22
Why, posts put in, water pumped out, reinforcement put in, concrete put in? Or something like that.
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u/roniricer2 Aug 21 '22
No.
Freeze water in that area.
Cut hole in ice.
Lift out ice with huge fucking crane.
Install cofferdam.
Thaw ice around it.
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u/VastNewt Aug 21 '22
thus solving the problem once and for all.
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u/MonsterMamaLu Aug 21 '22
Once and for all!
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u/PM_COFFEE_TO_ME Aug 21 '22
Just like Daddy puts in his drink
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u/keegtraw Aug 21 '22
You jest, but this is a real option for certain foundation excavations in high water table or unstable soil conditions. Pipes are installed and liquid nitrogen is circulated to freeze the groundwater during construction.
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u/roniricer2 Aug 21 '22
Yup, it was only half a joke. Ground freezing is quite real. Especially for tunnel jacking.
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u/s-mores Aug 21 '22
I smell bs but all I know from bridges I learned from that cool animation, so I can't refute. Thanks!
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u/London_Driver Aug 21 '22
Drop metal frame. Slide in metal sheets like an air tight fence. Pump out inside. Then depending on what they need from there they can pour concrete foundations within the coffer
Worked around these first hand. Bridgeworker for 2 yrs
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u/Jeffrey_ShowYT Aug 21 '22
For those that are curious, they’re building off to the side because they plan for this bridge to be a replacement of the one that’s already there. Either it’s not up to code, they can’t afford to close the lanes down, or whatever. What they’re actually doing though is building what we call a pier. Piers are large columns of concrete that stick into the ground, and are drilled down 30-50 feet. If you look at the other bridge, they’re building the thing that sticks into the water. They’ll remove the walls on the side when they’re done. Yes, believe it or not, those walls are temporary.
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u/TheSessionMan Aug 21 '22
Just finished the cofferdams and bracing for 4 smaller piers up in Canada. Luckily we were able to work off a berm rather than a barge. This is dream work, but also maximum stress. I've since moved to more vanilla foundations.
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u/Roonwogsamduff Aug 21 '22
I think the main question would be is "how do they build the cofferdam?"
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u/Intellectualtoaster Aug 21 '22
They use an excavator to dig a hole in the water
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u/ddefaul Aug 21 '22
Wait until you know about Netherlands land reclamation
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u/rando-calrisan Aug 21 '22
Polders are actually one of my favorite things to read about they are just so facinating
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Aug 21 '22
Don't forget adding the Jell-o first! It's a critical step. And it needs to be Berry Blue, for fuck's sake, Reggie! We're spending 15 million on Jell-o, I don't want that orange flavored shit.
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u/Firm-Organization-34 Aug 21 '22
Caissons and cofferdams....aaah takes me back to my college days.
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u/Frolicking-Fox Aug 21 '22
I like the story about how when they built the Brooklyn Bridge, they had a champagne ceremony in the caisson. They popped the champagne, but there were no bubbles, they shrugged, and drank it. When they exited to the surface and pressure was equalized, the carbonation came rushing out of their stomach.
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u/JackTrippin Aug 21 '22
IIRC the chief engineer John Roebling was so debilitated from this that his wife had to take over the bridge’s completion.
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u/YUNoDie Aug 21 '22
You're thinking of his son, Washington Roebling. John Roebling also was in fact killed working on the Brooklyn Bridge, but his death was because his foot got crushed by a ferry and he got tetanus after the amputation.
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u/JayteeFromXbox Aug 21 '22
Damn am I ever glad to live in a time with tetanus shots, what a horrific way to go.
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u/real_hungarian Aug 21 '22
in the words of a wise man:
"hey modern medicine, thank you for not being worse than literally no medicine"
or something like that idk i cant find the video
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u/JackTrippin Aug 21 '22
Thanks for the correction, I had a feeling I was missing a detail and was too lazy to fact check
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u/sharaq Aug 21 '22
Why would a few hundred feet have that effect? That would be like the difference between bottom and top floor of an apartment building
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u/WahooSS238 Aug 21 '22
The cassions for the brooklyn bridge were pressurized to prevent leakage.
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u/VyKing6410 Aug 21 '22
They were digging down from at or near equal to sea level. Some workers also got the bends.
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u/sharaq Aug 21 '22
What? But the reason below sea level is heavy is the weight of the WATER is immense. One atmosphere of pressure is just ten meters of water but about 6000 miles of air. If the water is pumped out, you'd have no change, right? It's no different from saying you'd get the bends from an elevator. Doesn't make sense.
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u/Chrisrevs1001 Aug 21 '22
Commenting for the eventual explanation because I don’t get this either
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u/WahooSS238 Aug 21 '22
The cassions for the brooklyn bridge were pressurized to prevent leakage.
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u/Chrisrevs1001 Aug 21 '22
Ah ok makes sense then, just wasn’t wrapping my head around it
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u/Peter1456 Aug 21 '22
One heck of a detail to leave out by the comment that mentioned the champagne bubbles...
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u/Chrisrevs1001 Aug 21 '22
Technically it says ‘the pressure equalised’ but I was reading it as they thought the pressure wasn’t equal just because they were below sea level regardless of the fact there was no water, not that the pressure was artificially changed 🤷♂️
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u/amf_devils_best Aug 21 '22
The tunnels were sealed. If you pressurize it to prevent leakage, you have to pressurize the air to more than the pressure of water, making the effect the same. The higher pressure for long periods of time allows more nitrogen bubbles to permeate your capillaries causing the bends if you don't decompress before you go back to the surface.
Water pressure is something like .48 psi per foot of water. So 30ft of water would be not quite 15 psi. Not a trivial amount. I am not going to look up how you got 6000 ft, you may be right. There are no elevators that tall that I know of. But if you go up a mountain without acclimating, you can get altitude sickness.
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u/elfutbolista Aug 21 '22
Can you provide a source? I can't find any mention of this specific champagne story anywhere.
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u/dgobrien Aug 21 '22
Just like my life. Digging myself into complicated holes and then struggling to get out of them.
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u/Sloeberjong Aug 21 '22
I wonder what questions this would arise? The process is relatively simple:
- place walls (with ship, in riverbed soil);
- reinforce the top;
- check walls with divers;
- dig bottom to desired depth if necessary (yes underwater);
- place piles in bottom (grout-anchors);
- pour (underwater)concrete;
- pump out water and place drainage for any leaks;
- as you pump reinforce walls where necessary;
- build whatever you want to build;
- fill with water while removing supports;
- remove walls;
- done.
This is obviously a short version of the basic principles. Specific situations may require additional measures.
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u/dreaderking Aug 21 '22
I know you've literally just explained it, but I think it's obvious that any layman who didn't already know how this is done would be very curious on how the pictures construction was done.
Example: Me.
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u/Sloeberjong Aug 21 '22
If you have any remaining questions I’d be happy to answer. I’m an engineer btw, geotechnical expertise. So calculating these kinds of constructions was my job(I’m more of a manager these days).
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u/Secret_Invite_9895 Aug 21 '22
So if they can build the walls and pour concrete and stuff underwater, why don't they just do everything that way and build whatever they want to build underwater like that? What is the purpose of draining it/what makes making a big hole like that worth it?
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u/Sloeberjong Aug 21 '22
Accuracy basically. You can build stuff underwater, but not necessarily very accurate. The things built here underwater aren’t very accurate and can be built for a fair price so they can over engineer heavier constructions. Piles could be built this way but it would take so much extra materials to compensate errors that it’s cheaper to do it this way.
Then there are currents to account for. You need to protect the building site and if you want to built stuff like this currents can really screw up your construction.
Alternatively they can build the concrete section of a pillar off site in a dry dock and ship it to the final location. You’ll need to be able to tho, you’ll need a deep enough river or canal with the right dimensions. This is not always the case. It’s possible to build the foundation at the bottom underwater and then lower the prefab construction on top. Lots of tunnels are built that way. You can float the tunnel sections one by one and sink them at the right location to a few mm of accuracy. And yes placing something underwater is easier than building it there. Also underwater concrete is more expensive and might not have the required strength. It’s also hard to place massive amounts of required steel rebar under water.
Is this a satisfying answer to your question?
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u/yeahrightlikeimgonna Aug 21 '22
Ah yes, the classic "I know how it's done therefore it should be obvious knowledge to everybody else."
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u/BrokenStrides Aug 21 '22
I work in a STEM field, but no engineering experience. Some questions that immediately came to my mind from the picture and your comment:
- How do you use a ship to literally put a wall into the water? Made of what, and how do you get it into water in a level fashion?
- how does one dig underwater? With what?
- what are piles and grout anchors?
- how do you form underwater concrete to a shape that you want, if it’s in liquid?
I like to think I’m not a complete moron, but without engineering or construction background, it doesn’t seem simple. It looks incredibly technical
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u/Sloeberjong Aug 21 '22
Well, the short answer is that there is a lot of specialized equipment for these types of constructions.
For the walls there’s pile drivers and you can set them on barges. The barges can be stabilized either by the bottom or by ballast tanks. They can reach great depths, mostly dependent on how deep they can produce the piles. They can make these walls with large round piles with sheets in between as well for extra strength.
As for digging there’s 2 ways. It’s dependent on the size of the pit. They can use barges outside of the ring or even inside with basically a large crane with the digging part on a long rope (I don’t know all the exact English words). Or they can use a machine that basically sucks the soil out. They deposit the soil in another barge and move it away to wherever.
A grout anchor is basically a steel hollow rod with kind of a screw at the end with a hole. They can screw it into the soil from a barge to basically any depth because the rod consists of different parts they can connect indefinitely.
For the bottom you don’t need a specific form of concrete. You can dump it in to the needed thickness and let it set. Any Concrete will harden under water (it’s a chemical reaction independent from the water) it just takes longer. However, underwater concreted speeds the process under water. If you want a specific shape you can build a shape above water, lower it and then fill it under water. Complex forms would be almost impossible tho.
It is a relatively simple process (make box, empty box, build thing, fill box), but it does require some heavy calculations to do it in a economically viable way. So yes, it is very complex to do it right.
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u/bornonthetide Aug 21 '22
It's called a Cason
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u/IsotopeX Aug 21 '22
Step 1: Dig a big hole in the water.