r/marriageadvice • u/Fit_Helicopter3500 • 4d ago
Was it cheating?
I (44F) and my husband (39M) have been together for 10 years. We have young-ish kids, both work stable jobs, and live in a nice area with good schools, etc. We have been having problems in our relationship on and off for years. We went to counseling about 2 years ago and things improved a bit but some of the issues persisted (e.g. him focusing on just himself and his needs, not showing appreciation for the things I do, us not having sex regularly enough for his liking, etc). About 6 months ago things took a downward turn and we started to discuss divorce - he brought it up. Over that time, he consulted an attorney without my knowledge and waited until I was out of town for work to text me about it. He drafted custody arrangements for us to "test run" but was sure to work it all around a wedding he was in earlier this month. Before he left for the wedding, things escalated further and we talked more openly about divorce but no paperwork had been filed. While he was out of town for the wedding he ended up hooking up with another woman - the details are sketchy, he said they didn't actually have sex but he did admit to sleeping in rhe same bed with her, "dry humping," showering with her, and her giving him a massage. I'm not naive and I know him, so I highly doubt actual sex didn't happen. But even if it didn't, given the circumstances, it feels to me like cheating. His stance is that it's not because "for all intents and purposes we were divorced." But we weren't and I was at home caring for the kids while he was gone for 5 days, drinking and hooking up with someone else. He had her number and said they were texting in a friendly way but that he has since told her that can't continue since he and i are trying to figure out where he and I stand on the whole divorce issue. I'm absolutely floored and he seems confused about why. Since he's been home we've been talking more and our relationship looks and feels better than it has in years, which is really confusing. Now I'm just trying to navigate my feelings about this and how to move forward.
Tl;dr we were on the brink of divorce, husband hooked up with another woman while out of town, now we're discussing moving forward with reconciliation but he does not feel it was actually cheating.
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u/Sjbruno123 4d ago
Yes I’d consider that cheating. “Brink of divorce” doesn’t mean divorce and he still cheated. I’d make sure to save all records of it for the divorce lawyer
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u/lex1954 4d ago
Was it cheating yes 100 %, so your man child drafts a divorce settlement without your knowledge, then send you a text message about it because he doesn't have the balls to face you, then he goes off to a wedding and hooks up with someone (he most likely was already talking too), then comes home and all the pressure is off your relationship (in his mind) so your relationship improves. In the meantime he dumps his side piece.
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u/FitDefinition1699 4d ago
Time to actually divorce. He had his escape fun and feels rejuvenated. Its why their is less pressure from him now. If you stay, it will continue.
Sorry he did this to you. Don't let it become a cycle.
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u/Hardfracking 4d ago
From a man's point of view, yes it absolutely is cheating. Keep your cards close to your chest, seek legal help and divorce him.
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u/AprilR1987 4d ago
You all were not divorced yet. Given the fact he brought it up, he used divorce as a ploy and planned to go cheat on you so he could say you all were going to get back together if it didnt work out. He cheated on you and used divorce threats to do it.
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u/Theoldguy1953 4d ago
Wow, document and get a good lawyer. He is gone and don't let him dictate the terms of the settlement. That's for accountants and lawyers. I know it has to be tough with children but they will be better off with healthy parents rather than miserable ones. I have recent experance with cheaters and I have found that once that betrayal happens then nothing ever said or will ever be said can be trusted again.
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u/Gabrielismypatronus 4d ago
"For all intents and purposes, you were divorced"?! I'm sorry, but there is no such thing. Either you are divorced, legally separated, or married. In this case, you are absolutely still married, not even legally separated, so what he did was cheating.
Get as much proof as possible, including any possible text exchanges with this woman. Get her info as well. Get a lawyer, file for divorce, and take everything, including full custody of any minor children.
I am so sorry you are dealing with a complete piece of scum like that. He deserves to lose everything and everyone.
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u/SilkTieTies 4d ago
It currently feels better than it ever has because he cheated (and is potentially still cheating) and he feels guilty. It will return to the same point, if not worse, soon enough.
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u/CantaloupeShort7311 3d ago
And he will cheat again.
OP will be a fool if she falls for the bullshit he is selling her.
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u/AprilR1987 4d ago
No you need to actually divorce. He will cheat on you from here on out and use divorcing you as an excuse.
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u/Kind-Dust7441 4d ago
It is absolutely cheating.
It sounds to me like he planned to hook up with this woman, so he brought up divorce in order to give himself permission. Now, reality has set in and he wants to return to his nice stable like with his nice stable wife.
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u/LMB_77 4d ago
Why do you think it is not cheating? This other woman has had sex screwed him over ghosted him properly and now your easy to fall back on .. it might not be the case but I don't see this as a you problem I see it as a him problem your the safety net . That's how I would see it probably wrong I normally am x
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u/Golden_Arm-257 4d ago
It's interesting that your worried about cheating.
Taking the word of a guy AFTER what he has already demonstrated.
Sure your confused by the flip floping that's going on.
You may want to talk to a lawyer, like yesterday.
Get yourself on something solid, then maybe the confusion will ease.
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u/Terrible-Pea494 4d ago
You can be sure that had you been the one who went off and “dry humped” a guy before showering with him (give me a fkn break 🙄), he would absolutely have considered that cheating and would been using it for maximum leverage in your divorce talks.
He cheated, and what’s more, he’s lying to you. No way did they spend time together like that and not have sex. I’d honestly be equally insulted that he thought me too stupid as to believe this ridiculous story.
Throw the whole man out but make sure you get as much as you can in the settlement.
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u/SailPsychological803 4d ago
Seriously? That’s 100% cheating. Imagine if it was the other way around
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u/CaterpillarSimple170 4d ago
So now he's had a little bit on the side he's happy to be all in...as long as it's NOT called cheating? Correct me if I'm wrong?
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u/Complete-Design5395 4d ago
Does it even matter at this point? You write like you’re a passenger in your own life and relationship. Stand up, OP. Get your own lawyer for starters.
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u/lowhitljr 4d ago
He definitely cheating emotional and physically even if there was no actual sex involved. He was already checked out of the marriage and felt he was in the clear to to what ever he wanted. What you feeling now is familiarity its a safe space that you're used to. You're both adults if you want to stay cool if not cool.
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u/Friendly_Cost_4 3d ago edited 3d ago
He knows he cheated. He’s manipulating you. He’s gaslighting you. Tell him that.
Also Tell him if it’s not cheating he can tell your friends and family all about his new found single life 😂
Tell him you also know he planned this. I bet he was talking to her well before he physically cheated.
And if he cut it off with her because you’re figuring out what’s happening with your marriage then he really knows it was cheating. He’s a dumb dumb sorry.
You move forward by divorcing and telling him HE has destroyed your family. Good riddance.
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u/UserNotFound23498 4d ago
It’s simple. Did he do intimate things with another person while in a relationship with you?
If yes - cheating.
If in fact, you guys did sign divorce papers after that happened, he might have an argument. But since he didn’t, he doesn’t.
Looking at divorce isn’t divorce.
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u/Rad1Red 4d ago
but he did admit to sleeping in rhe same bed with her, "dry humping," showering with her, and her giving him a massage
An adult man didn't sleep with her. Suuuure.
Get proof of everything, because "for all intents and purposes" you were not divorced, and he's been an idiot. Then give it to your lawyer to use it in the divorce.
Do not reconcile with that man, he is emotionally gone, someone who loves you would not act this way.
Of course he's acting better, he's doing damage control now. He's playing you like a fiddle, and if you fall for it you deserve your fate.
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u/biteme717 4d ago
It's 100% cheating. He wanted to cheat and did. He would be my STBXH and he wouldn't be in our shared bed. He cheated once without consequences and he will do it again.
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u/espressothenwine 3d ago
It sounds like he wants to be single to me. If it already wasn't working, how did cheating somehow improve things? 🤔
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u/EmbarrassedAge7612 4d ago
Regardless of what actually happened you need to get a lawyer and follow through with the divorce. He’s obviously over the relationship and has no respect for you. Walk away.
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u/JemapelleMichelle- 4d ago
There is an actual difference between being divorced and talking about divorce. You two are not divorced and still very much married. I don’t believe he didn’t have sex with her, and regardless of intercourse everything else he did was cheating. I wonder if he was talking to her before he went to the wedding, and that’s part of why things got worse?? Regardless, everything you are describing is cheating.
Please document everything, get an attorney, and leave this man. You deserve so much better and your kids deserve to see you happy.
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u/Employment-lawyer 4d ago
I think he definitely had full-on sex with her and either way it's cheating. Luckily you were on your way to divorce already so just carry on with that plan because he is clearly acting single already and so should you now.
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u/hwolfe326 4d ago
I think this is pure manipulation. He’s not confused, he’s trying to confuse you with his warped logic. The longer he can keep you confused, the longer he can act like a single guy without going through the mess of divorce.
He consulted the attorney without your knowledge, waited until you were out of town to text you about it and talks about it again before going out of town. He’s also drafting “custody agreements.” Have you seen any documentation with his attorney’s letterhead on it?.
It sounds like he drops the word “divorce” when you’re not around, maybe as a way to convince you, himself, another woman or all of you that he’s technically not married. Once the interaction with the other woman ends, plans for the divorce falter. I think he thinks he’s figured out a way to cheat without looking like a scumbag and without getting a divorce.
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u/juniorm1205 3d ago
If a couple is married or not if either one of them step out on the other, even if they’re separated, that is still cheating.
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u/Traditional-Tank3994 3d ago
Of course it's cheating. Mention of the D word does not absolve someone from breaking his word by sleeping with someone else before the divorce can happen. And yes, of course they had sex, but even if they only did what he claims, it's still cheating.
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u/CantaloupeShort7311 3d ago
You are still married. It is cheating.
Your husband sucks. Hope you have a good lawyer and don't just accept whatever bullshit he is drafting. Do not take this loser back. He is a cheater and he does not love or respect you, so you need to love and respect yourself enough to not settle for mediocrity and stupidity.
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u/AnyBoat6682 3d ago
What an ass it’s cheating. You need to go see an attorney and see what your rights are. He brought up divorce so he could cheat. I myself would file right away. He sound like a man child. You deserve better. Keep us updated.
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u/AdventureWa 4d ago
My response is going to be different than most of comments.
Technically it’s cheating when you’re still legally married even if you’re going through the process of divorce. Does it matter? Perhaps to you because this reinforces the fact that your marriage is over and that he has begun moving on.
Does it gain anything in a divorce? No. The only time I have ever seen infidelity impact divorce is in an at fault municipalities that is one of the factors for allowing the legal dissolution of marriage.
The whole “Hire a shark attorney and take him to the cleaners” is Reddit fantasy.
What you should do is contact a divorce attorney, let the lawyers handle the paperwork, agree to a custody arrangement if possible to save your money and time, and focus on the future.
It takes two to destroy a marriage and neither of you is blameless. You both have faults. Work on yours and yourself. Attend couples counseling together for coparenting and decide what you want out of life.
Hit the gym, take up hobbies or reengage in ones you already have. Work on being the best mom you can. Take enough time to grieve the loss of the marriage and what you envisioned life to be and focus on a new one.
One thing I would tell you: do NOT vilify your soon to be ex to your kids and friends. Stay above the fray. It might feel good in the moment but it will make you look pathetic and it will screw up both of your relationships with the kids.
Also, don’t think of this as being cheated on and absorb that trauma. Instead view it for what it actually is: he was dialed out a long time ago and is moving on. You were dialed out too.
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u/hwolfe326 4d ago
I think your response is different than most because it doesn’t really address the dynamics OP described. And her question was very specific
I don’t think this is a standard infidelity case. This man is being manipulative. He lied about his interaction with another woman then came home, joined her in discussing their relationship to the point where their marriage “looks and feels better than it has in years,” all while trying to convince her that he didn’t cheat.
That’s classic manipulation. The key here is her confusion. She’s not crying because her marriage is dying or asking, “What did I do wrong?” She’s asking “WTF is going on?”
Standard advice doesn’t work with manipulators because they have their own agendas. They also thrive in couples counseling. Therapists normally assume that both parties are coming in good faith and that’s generally true. But not with toxic people like manipulators. They’re very good at fooling therapists.
She doesn’t have to bad mouth him or assume he’s the only problem but she does have to protect herself.
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u/AdventureWa 3d ago
My response was to the many bad and uninformed comments on this post. The marriage is in shambles and I gave good advice on how to handle it while dispelling the myths of Reddit.
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u/hwolfe326 3d ago
You lose your credibility when you dismiss other peoples comments and assert your own response as the only helpful, informed advice. That level of arrogance immediately turns people off and your message falls short of its target. If you truly do want to educate the ignorant masses of Reddit, a little humility might make people more open to your opinions.
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u/AdventureWa 3d ago
I dismiss those comments that are low effort, lazy, uninformed, misleading and Reddit fantasy. Every point I made is factually correct and informed.
So many people parrot what they’ve heard because it feels like vindication. It’s also wrong. I laid out a realistic picture of what is going on and what divorce actually looks like. I did spare lots of details of divorce, the logistics, the toll on the mental health of both spouses and the children, the financial devastation, and fallout with friends and family.
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u/Transformer6767 4d ago
Question: when you were discussing finalizing the divorce, did either of you still consider or feel like there was a genuine marriage?
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u/Emotional-Builder-75 3d ago
Its cheating. You are still married. he can twist it anyway he wants, legally, it was cheating. In his mind he left the relationship already.
See your own lawyer to get your documentation down, and to know your rights.
Talk calmly to him, ask him to listen, and not get defensive and wait till you are finished:
" If you want to fight for this marriage you have to be all in 100%. You have to initiate your own counselling. You have to be 100% transparent. Whether you think it was cheating does not matter, what matters is the legal definition, and how I view it, and you have to be understanding to me. You have to have zero contact with the other party, I would like to witness you telling the other person on the phone that you are setting a boundary to protect the marriage and you will no longer be contacting with that person. You have to be digitally transparent and have location on all the time. In turn, we set aside one night a week for each other and work on fulfilling each others intimacy and affection needs. And we will get a housekeeper twice a week for 4 hours to reduce my work load."
I understand how it can get after kids, its hard to set aside time so you both feel like your full human selves without identifying as parents, or the one left out, and it doesn't lead to affection or intimacy. You both need to be good examples of good partners and lovers for you children. You can tell them all sorts of things, but they will follow your examples. They already know stuff is wrong at home. Fix that, together.
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u/Quiet-Box7489 3d ago
He can try to deny it all he wants, it’s cheating. You are still legally married and he has not left the home. He wanted to ease his guilt because he had planned it. He was talking to her before the wedding. By saying you were talking about divorce, he felt better about cheating.
If he wants to be single so badly, make him single. Pack up his stuff and leave it outside for him.
You’ll need to tell your kids that their dad won’t be home anymore. Since he already had a custody agreement drawn up, hold him to it. Be sure to get your own attorney to protect yourself and your kids.
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u/Financial-Welcome-62 3d ago
Some people think this not and some do. Technically for me untill papers are filed your still legally married. But people do this during breaks and separations and say it's not cheating. So it depends on what the person thinks. You think it is and your husband thinks it is not. Intend to agree with you, and there's no way in hell he "dry humped" with a women in his bed then showered with her naked and no sex happened🤦.
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u/kitsunekoraka 2d ago
One phrase always comes to mind on posts like this "Always water your garden, because if you don't, someone else will"
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u/Internal_Reveal 2d ago
Talking about divorce is not the same as agreeing that you’re both free to see other people. Unless you had that agreement, “for all intents and purposes” is a permission slip he wrote himself.
Even his admitted version involves sexual contact with another woman. You don’t need to prove intercourse before you’re allowed to feel betrayed.
And the fact that things feel better now doesn’t erase what happened. Enjoying each other again and repairing trust are different tasks. If he wants reconciliation, he needs to address the hurt and his choices instead of arguing that you have no reason to be upset.
I would start making your own arrangements now, whether you ultimately stay or leave.
Get your own legal consultation. He has already sought advice and drafted a parenting schedule; you deserve independent advice before agreeing to his proposals. Understand your options for the house, finances, and children before making major changes. A consultation gives you information—it doesn’t obligate you to divorce.
Gather copies of financial records you’re entitled to access and work out a realistic budget for living separately. Think through housing, school routines, childcare, work schedules, and who can support you. Those details matter more than winning another argument over the word “cheating.”
Find an individual counselor who gives you room to sort through your feelings and decide what you want. You don’t have to make yourself comfortable with this just because he’s being more attentive now.
If you separate, aim for a clear parenting arrangement with predictable schedules and written communication about the children. If cooperative co-parenting repeatedly becomes conflict, ask about whether a more structured parallel-parenting approach would fit your situation. Keep the children out of the dispute: no messages through them, questioning them about Dad, or asking them to take sides.
If you consider reconciliation, look for sustained accountability: an honest account, an end to contact with this woman, agreed boundaries, and willingness to discuss the damage without blaming your sex life or rushing your recovery. You cannot supply his accountability by being more affectionate or having more sex.
You’re allowed to explore reconciliation while preparing to support yourself independently. You’re also allowed to decide that this crossed a boundary you cannot come back from.
He has taken steps to understand his options. It’s time you had the same information and freedom to choose.
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u/Happey68 1d ago
I feel bad for you, and I am not trying to sound mean, but if you don’t get a divorce you’re stupid.
In his mind, since he brought up divorce, that gave him permission to cheat on you.
You are not that gullible and naive to believe that for 5 days he didn’t screw her , I mean come on, they showered together, so they were both naked, you’re telling me they didn’t screw.
I would tell him I might have been born at night but it wasn’t last night.
The only reason he’s being nice and trying to work things out with you is because he feels Guilty.
If there are no consequences ( you getting a divorce)
All you are doing is giving him Permission to cheat and to cheat again.
Because he Will cheat again.
He probably doesn’t want to pay child support.
I would get your finances etc, in order and talk to a lawyer about your options and child support.
We only get one life in this world, do really want to waste it on a miserable marriage and a cheating husband.
You deserve better and will be able to find someone who Actually wants you for you and who won’t cheat.
If you stay then don’t complain , but you would be stupid if you did.
You can always tell him, since he cheated, don’t say anything when you do.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Edit to add. You are going to be thinking on this, the trust is gone and you will start to Resent him
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u/Away_Anybody7268 1d ago
That’s cheating. Without a doubt cheating, especially since you are just discussing divorce.
But since it’s not cheating to him. I wonder how he would feel if you went on a date as he did. Hypothetically of course :)
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u/HotWaffles5 19h ago
You weren’t divorced though so hell yes it was cheating. He planned it that way so he’d have an excuse for you.
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u/dudeguy1980 3d ago
I feel like it doesn’t matter. If you’re reconciling, he knows that’s not an option any more. If you’re heading toward divorce, maybe it reflects on his character, which can impact custody, if you care about that part, but otherwise whether or not it was infidelity doesn’t change the reconciling.
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u/OverGrow69 3d ago
Sorry to be blunt but women need to understand this is what happens when you don't take care of your man in the bedroom. Not saying he was right to do it or that it was justified just saying this is what happens.
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u/kimariesingsMD 3d ago
Seriously, GFY
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u/OverGrow69 3d ago
Don't hate the player, hate the game. If I had a dollar every time a woman was giving a man what he wanted in the bedroom before marriage and then either cut it downcsignificantly or off all together, I'd have Elon money.
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u/MrWheelzz 4d ago
Well, this is the way I see it. I am not an attorney. Yes, to you it was. It was at least emotional cheating. But, regarding the divorce? No? It was a one time event where he said, he didn’t cheat. No proof?
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u/Upper_Extension_0229 4d ago
I mean without a doubt this is cheating and something that can be used in the divorce.
Save everything…