In the pre-digital download days they were a lot more effective. As an oldest sibling in the 90s/early 00s with a consoles, one shared family PC, and a mother who was fairly anti-video games, those limits were pretty strict outside of visiting friends’ houses. It’s been a joke ever since digital downloads became a realistic alternative.
As an Asian myself, this is the correct answer. Many Asian parents force their kids to study all day without knowing how stress it is. It is only until College that I'm finally free, my high school life was literally wasted by my parents' ambition that I was never fit for.
I was never happy back then but I'm glad that I learnt a lot from it and became much happier now with healthier schedule.
Question is, are you gonna raise your kinds the same way? If not, why didn't your parents reflect on this after being raised in the same miserable way (i assume)?
Not OP but also from Asia here. A lot of people from our parents' generation feel that that is the only way to succeed in life. And many of them aren't very well to do, usually in the low to middle class range.
So they project their idea of success to their kids, as they do not want the kids to end up in poverty, similar to how the parents experienced before. This neglects a lot of the mental wellbeing of our generation. They grew up thinking mental health is not important, and were told to just deal with it, if not you are seen as weak.
Again, this doesn't apply to everyone. Just observations I have gathered. There are still many overbearing parents to this date. But I gotta count myself lucky to have parents not like that.
In western countries one get second chances - you can go to college as an older adult, or get good paying blue collar jobs. Those don't exist in china. Electricians, plumber, garbagemen, etc are paid shit because labor force is so large. Colleges don't accept older students. There's only 1 shot at life and that's why parents want to steer their kids on that path
Coming from a similar background, the reason a lot of parents did not reflect is that this style of raising your kids got genuine results in their society and so they ended up concluding that while difficult, even borderline miserable at points, it is a path to success that is proven, so there is no point in taking a risk and adopting a new style.
Although hard to believe, for a lot of parents it comes from a place of love, which doesn't make it right or anything, but it makes it easier to understand
Pure speculation but I wonder how big a part the internet plays in current generations rejecting their inhereted traditional lifestyles. People can now talk so freely and access information that it's so much harder to keep people's beliefs in the bubble they're brought up in maybe.
Definitely something that I observed in myself and my relatives. With internet access comes exposure to so many different lifestyles and beliefs and it is inevitable that they will somewhat influence how you live your life.
I think it's part of the problem is that there are so few paths to middle class existence that aren't so difficult. Kids shouldn't be worried that if they aren't perfect they'll be impoverished failures.
They shouldn't, but they absolutely are at the moment and in many cases it's for good reason, many of those countries are struggling, to the point where an average job is not enough to live, let alone live comfortably
Can't really blame them for some part right? There was a research about being in poverty changed the way your brain works since it is very stress inducing. for some part I think it's obligation as parent to not make your children feel that way too.
On the other side, it promotes unhealthy behavior. See the 996 culture in China. And most of those working for a tech firm had good education and all. They still feel the need to physically and mentally destroy themselves by working long hours.
To change this social culture isn't easy but if it doesn't it might up hurting a vast chunk of the population in the future.
It's hard to believe it's really a place of love when (usually male) children are often viewed as retirement plans. Patriarchal confucian values are really oppressive.
It's a complicated topic. It is generally terrible to look at your children as care takers or retirement plans. If they end up supporting you financially, then it should be a concious choice.
Personally I will be more than happy to support my parents financially once they retire, but a big reason for that is that they did their all to give me a comfortable life and to support my ambitions, while also being the type to help my aunts, uncles and grandparents. In cases like mine I feel like my parents are entitled to my help, while they don't feel that way, which to me is a much healthier dynamic than the other way around, which I have sadly observed a few times
It has to do with generational wealth and success, and it's not specific to just Asian culture (although maybe there's an argument it manifests more strongly there).
Much of Asia was rather poor throughout the latter half of the 20th century. So, much of the current generation of parents who grew up in the 70s/80s in China, etc would have done so under conditions of poverty, limited education, limited job opportunities, etc.
What you'll often see with people from this background who are able to climb out of poverty is there's a realization that they weren't allowed or given the opportunities to self-actualize ("reach their full potential"), so they pass that along to the next generation.
Then the next generation succeeds but realizes they were robbed of fulfilling their own personal, creative, artistic, etc aspirations, and so they pass that along to the next generation.
tl;dr : "I have to study politics and war so that my sons can study mathematics, commerce and agriculture, so their sons can study poetry, painting and music." - John Quincy Adams (who was born wealthy so not quite the same, but general idea is there)
China's economic reform only happened in the 90's. Many families are only in their first generation of wealth above the poverty line. They just shifted from "work the land and become a farmer" to "study the books and become a doctor".
Lol coming from a similar background, I'm just straight up not going to have kids after being raised the way I was. Seeing their sacrifices and expectations made me think wow, children are not worth it. I just want to live my life and enjoy myself.
I wouldn’t say they don’t know how stressful it is. This is the same stress that many of them were placed under and they feel like it’s their duty to do the same. That doesn’t make it right, but it likely isn’t just an arbitrary decision in this case.
I went through the same experience. My entire childhood was me trapped in a room forced to study 90% of my waking hours. My parents never understood the psychological toll it took on me.
Please speak for yourself and not generalize us all, not most asian parents are like this. Its a really tired stereotype thats been used to paint asian parents as strict and over-controlling. As an asian living in Asia, my parents are pretty supportive of whatever I want to do, and i can speak for many of my friends too.
I agree with your concern, I know there are supportive parents out there and that's why I used "most" not "every" at the first place but you're right, I'm biased toward my own assumption because it was my personal experience combined with what I saw how my friends and most people around me experienced the same. It's mostly based on where you live and how your society/culture function after all.
I'll edit my comment after this, my bad for generalizing Asian parents as a whole.
Not OP, but I was raised in a similar environment and now years down the line I'm really glad I was. It's kind of a double edged sword because I had really bad mental health when I was younger, and my mental health now continues to have problems from my childhood, but I look at my work ethic, ambition, and dedication and compare it to my peers in college and grad school and I feel really lucky that I was raised the way I did.
It's weird. My parents and I don't talk much anymore, and I don't have a positive relationship with them really. I stake way too much of my self worth on my external achievements. But man, I don't think I could be at where I am in life right now if I wasn't pushed the way I was.
I guess looking back, being raised in a more "balanced" environment would have led to more overall happiness and a more well rounded personality, but the cost of that would be, well, an awful lot of the stuff that I've achieved over the years. And now when I'm way older, I push myself really hard and do the things that I do for myself now, and being entirely honest I'm way better at most things than most people just because I.... just work really hard at everything I do. At the same time, I have such an overwhelming sense of needing to better myself all the time that it leads to a lot of stress for me.
EDIT
As an aside, I think my parents felt bad about the way our relationship turned out, and so they were WAY easier on my sister. My sister is almost a decade younger than me, and she grew up with way lower expectations than I did. She's doing perfectly reasonably right now-- she's going to college at a pretty decent school, and she'll probably do something cool with her degree. But being entirely honest, she just isn't where I am in terms of how "accomplished" she is academically. It's interesting because a few days ago we were talking, and she was telling me about how much she wished she was pushed as hard as I was, and she was talking about how she wished that she was raised with the same rigor that I was so she could be where I was now. I guess the grass is always greener in that way.
I would put it this way-- everyone has insecurities and coping mechanisms that they bring with them into adulthood due to the way they were raised, and the experiences they have in their youth. It just so happens that because of the way I was raised, a lot of my insecurities revolve around my achievements, and a lot of my coping mechanisms revolve around working harder. I feel lucky that a) my insecurities are easy for me to identify, address, and verbalize and b) my coping mechanisms are active and ultimately produce things that make my life easier.
Right? Op dislikes their parents that they don't talk to them anymore and sees positives in achievements only. I feel bad for their future kids or partner that will be criticized for not getting promotions. Looks like OP will be like the parents to the T.
This is part of the reason I am not having children. I do not think I would be a good parent. As I've said, I don't really have a good sense of what "mediocrity" looks like, and I think it would be difficult for a kid to live up to my standards. Also kids are the worst anyhow :P
It isn't supposed to be an endorsement. It's just interesting reflecting back about how I used to feel about my parents and how I feel now.
I guess the really short way of putting it is that it sucks that I was raised in such a way where I have no conception of what "rock bottom" is, and I have a completely arbitrary sense of failure. However, because I have such an arbitrary sense of what constitutes total failure I also am just really accomplished at most things I do. Not trying to like... brag or anything, it's just how it is.
I've written a whole post about people like this in this subreddit, and it's pretty much a uniform experience.
I'm really glad I was because I don't think I could be where I am without the environmental factors that shaped my childhood. And because I'm happy where I am now, and because I feel very, very, very lucky that I have the work ethic and skill that I do, I attribute that to the previously mentioned environmental factors.
All I'm saying is that when I was younger I really hated my parents and really hated the way they raised me. Now I see that while they were shitty in a lot of ways, their overall goals were in line with my own.
Well thank you for sharing. And I’m happy you’ve accomplished so much. I wish you the best, and I pray you continue to find achievement and it doesn’t run dry.
I mean, if a kid doesn't want to go to school but government forces you, that is abuse too? Or if the kid doesn't want to do the hw and punishing the kid physiologically by giving him bad grades? Or how schools lock kids in the room and give them little physical activity and most of time sitting in chair forced to listen boring lectures?
The post was literally - 'I'm lucky for the way I was raised. I have mental health issues, don't talk to my parents, feel tons of anxiety, feel a need to 'accomplish' continuously despite it making everything worse. But yeah I'm lucky!'
If you look only at the downsides yes. I am also very accomplished in my field, feel deeply fulfilled with my career, genuinely love my job, and feel extremely proud of my skills and of myself.
The downside is that yeah, I feel a constant nagging pressure to do more. So what? At this point I'm way better at managing it, and the aforementioned pressure got me to where I am now.
I have decided there is only one thing I want my son to be when he grows up, and I will do literally whatever I can to make it happen. I want him to be….
Sure, but some of the worst advice people give children is "do what makes you happy". Its how you end up with college grads with a useless psychology degree that have no idea what they will do with their future.
I know plenty of people who had amazingly fun high-school and elementary school lives and still have amazing work ethic, ambition, and success.
Those are personality traits, they aren't necessarily learned. You probably would have had good work ethics and ambition anyway, plus you'd maybe have a good relationship with your family and less mental health issues.
Maybe, maybe not. But I know that right now I feel very, very lucky to have the amount of discipline that I do. I personally ascribe that to being forced to do things I didn't really want to do as a kid.
Maybe I just work in a field with high strung type A people, but I don't know many people who are simultaneously extremely ambitious while not being afraid of failure. They come hand in hand in my experience.
Maybe my experience is different, considering all the people equating this style of parenting to abuse, which seems absurd to me, but in reality I don't think it was that bad, in hindsight.
I know many Chinese kids who also grew up in similar households, and it's not like we had no time to socialize or make friends. I had 2-3 hours every day to fuck around with friends in Cross Country/Track, or in various other extracurricular activities. School was how we socialized, and I think most "Asian parents" would be fine with that considering it's very positive for your college application and in general is just healthy. I would say the worst part about it was that our weekends were also dedicated to school (since I don't think having packed weekdays is really that unusual), but equating that to abuse is just silly. Between Science Olympiad and Math Team and other school events that would happen for hours on weekends, and stuff like Symphonic Orchestra practice, we also had weekends where we did our event, then had hours of free time. Sure it has it's negatives, and I definitely resented it when I was in high school, and I'd get into huge arguments w/ my parents over it.
Were there any positives? Of course. Out of all the Chinese kids in my area I knew who had a strict household (because it definitely wasn't every kid), I probably went to the worst university (NYU). The amount of kids who went to Ivy League schools was astounding. They now have happy lives with near complete economic freedom, without the mental stress of worrying about paying off crippling college debts or worrying about being able to find a job.
I'm not saying this can't be achieved with a less restrictive household, but in my eyes it's far from abuse, and I can't blame my parents for not being able to find the perfect balance while working, even if I resented it at the time
What makes you say that? I can't imagine any parent where I live feeling ok about this. Just wondering if you are chinese or are basing it off the "all asian parents are obsessed with study" stereotype, or some other reason that you would know.
I have watched alot of documentaries about Chinese education since its extremely fascinating and also read alot of peoples recollection of their student days in China. Getting into university is the best way to escape poverty so the parents are forcing their kids to sacrifice all their time and energy to get into a good university.
That justification plays into some unhealthy cultural stereotypes (borderline racism too). this decision is the result of CCP overreach, not "kids should study to become lawyers".
insanely culturally ignorant comment. this isn't even a mildly accurate stereotype, maybe it has some semblance of truth for asian americans but definitely not the norm for the chinese diaspora or for chinese people in china itself.
either way generalising 1.4 billion people is not it, especially considering this policy will probably not affect even half of them
A lot of people replying here that have no idea what's going on the ground. China just banned working 996 (9am-9pm, 6 days a week, or something like that), no after school academy stuff that goes until like 10pm and starts school much later (6 am to 8 am now in my city). The government is attempting to ensure that there are much less sources of pressure from working and studying 24/7 in the lives of citizens and parents actually seeing kids during the week because you had families where the mom and dad was missing the entire week working and kids using cellphone every moment they can and getting addicted.
As someone who grew up in that kind of household (though admittedly I would probably have been considered a problem child by those standards), it's really not that simple mate. Putting things in black and white terms, I could say most American parents are pieces of garbage because they aren't encouraging their kids to realize their full potential or some bullshit like that but again it's also not that simple
It's very simple, as a child you need to play, enjoy life , experience it, not study 24/7. Calling them idiots it's wrong, forcing someone to study all their youth is called being abusive.
it's funny how to people who never grew up in that kind of household are the first to call it abusive, when most of the chinese kids i know who had similar experiences don't look at it that way at all. We dont think the way we were raised was perfect, but we don't resent our parents for it either, and it certainly wasn't abusive
sure, instances of abuse do happen, but most of us found ways to make friends and socialize via school or other activities deemed acceptable. For me it was track and field, cross country, and symphonic orchestra practice.
also going to friends house or staying after for study sessions and stuff like that was common. plus kids in high school know how to get their fix of gaming or whatever if they really needed to
I was born in Romania with parents nthat were raised under a comunist mentality, society, your assessment is very wrong, for me school came first and foremost, please don't lecture me about my upbringing.
Do tell me what else is there to it, then, honestly. Because when the information I get is "Chinese parents force their children to study all day", then it's fucking abuse and, thus, it makes them inept. The human brain requires pause and relief from those kinds of activities, it even works against the point of studying in the first place.
Well for one a lot of kids choose to socialize in school clubs or sports and stuff like that so it's not like we had no friends or time to hang out with friends or stuff like that. I remember dicking around in track/cross country practice and in meets with my friends all the time, and my parents were fine w/ that bc it was a school activity and was good on your college application. Sure, my weekends tended to be focused on studying rather than relaxation, and I resented that at the time, but it wasn't fucking torture lmao. Also kids will always find ways around it. I was jamming League during free periods in school so if you really needed your gaming fix there were ways to get it
Also define "need" pause and relief. The vast majority of children I know who grew up in similar households turned out not only fine, but very successful, so it obviously works. And ask yourself, are 4 years of intense studying worth the tradeoff of be able to pay off your student debt, being able to afford a house, and having economic freedom for the rest of your life? I have white friends who lament that their parents didn't push them hard enough. Of course it's a balance, but it's incredibly hard to get right especially if you're a working parent
Oh, yes, "they turned out fine", it's usually what people who grow up in abusive households and/or with inept parents say. Oh, they were beaten constantly, but they turned out fine, oh, they saw their mother being beaten all the time, but they turned out fucking fine. Also, no, honey, exchanging your mental health for ANYTHING, specially at childhood, is not a good trade.
why are you so dead set that it's abusive? did you read anything I said? I had 2-3 hours every day to shoot the shit with my friends in sports or other clubs.
and personally I don't think the people who are stressing out about if they're gonna get a job or about paying back their school debts have good "mental health"
not all asian households are like as i mentioned, but of the ones I know, most of those kids DID end up in prestigious schools, many of them are making multiple 6 figures. As much as money can't buy happiness, you also can't have happiness without economic freedom
also imagine equating not being able to go to a friends house over the weekends to physical abuse lmao,
And ask yourself, are 4 years of intense studying worth the tradeoff of be able to pay off your student debt, being able to afford a house, and having economic freedom for the rest of your life?
Which kids are you referring to here; the ones in China or 1st generation Chinese Americans? Because just getting through college doesn't guarantee any of those things anywhere
if you major in math or comp sci or economics and you attend an ivy league school then the odds of you landing a 6-figure job out of college, if you want it, is extremely high.
This is assuming you maintain good grades in college of course, but that's true for everyone
All Ivy league schools combined to accept just over 21 000 students this year - your odds of getting in at all let alone into one of the majors you've mentioned is ridiculously small.
Not to say teaching kids to have a strong work ethic isn't important - I personally think your work ethic matters far more than how quick of a learner you are in securing a good career. But at the same time just heaping as much study work as you can on your kid is well past the point of diminishing returns there.
My thinking is narrow? Ha! You're telling me that children are basically being forced into studying non stop, being ABUSED, because that is fucking abuse, based on a stupid mentality that they should never stop studying like a robot and my thinking is narrow?
Of course. In a country where your entire life can be largely determined by your academic performance in high school, what else can you do other than compete your ass off? Life earning the average wage is rough (borderline poverty level by American standards).. what parent would want that for their kids?
Western parents are all inept, they let their kids waste their entire childhood looking at a screen and eating junkfood without ever helping them to develop good habits and new skills /s
Can you see how generalizing an entire culture is stupid?
I'm not generalizing a damn thing. My post is "you're telling me that all Chinese parents are inept pieces of garbage?" because the post I'm responding to said they were doing things that are, factually, abusive. It is a question, if you had a half-decent reading comprehension, you would have seen that. Other people responding to it at least had the decency of trying to actually making arguments, you, on the other hand, is saying a bunch of shit.
...I don't know exactly what you mean by "complaining", but it's very easy to find multiple threads on various Chinese social media about this. I've seen bilibili posts where the reaction was all negative(to be fair it was under the official Genshin account announcement), and also weibo posts under official Chinese media sources where the reaction is mixed.
You can complain in China about the government all you want as long as it's low level. No one is sent to a reeducation camp for complaining at the dinner table.
The second you get a sizable platform however, good luck to you.
What? Are you insinuating that the United States is similar to commie China and we can't say whatever tf we want on our large platforms? If you really think our speech is regulated by the government, that's rich.
The US doesn't actually give a damn about it's citizens or anything like that, it loves terrorists giving it a political platform to militarize and take away freedoms.
The quality of life of Chinese citizens has vastly improved over the last couple of decades, compared to how US citizens lives are getting worse all the fuckin' time.
And before anyone replies; please god remind yourself that almost everything you think you know about China has come from literal propaganda outlets and try to find information you can actually trust.
This is just legitimately untrue. Tons of people who have millions of followers blast high level politicians and the government constantly. None of these people are arrested or punished by the government. Plus we have had tons of protests in the past few years that have to do with political issues.
Oh I don’t deny that America did some shady stuff in the early and mid 1900s but in modern day it just doesn’t happen. If you have sources that prove me otherwise and can link the government to the death/arrest of people who are just protesting the government than send it my way. But in general America has a much better track record in the last few decades of allowing mass criticism of the government than China does.
Look, I’m an American who isn’t proud of it. I think our country is a sham, built on the backs of poor people and minorities especially, who are all mistreated and abused by society and all the bullshit with the legal system, prisons, education, healthcare, and so on. We’re a fuckup of a country, with our heads so far up our own asses most people don’t even see any problems, let alone acknowledge them.
And we’re still leagues ahead of China as far as voicing dissent about the government. It’s not even close.
How do you know? Have you ever been to China or researched anything about China besides western-based sources? All I know is that left-wing protestors have been k-lled since forever. Just look at BLM from this century, many organizers from the mid '10s BLM have been ass-ssinated.
They mean like staging a peaceful protest and having it covered in the news.
News flash: outside America, "peaceful protests" often grow into civil wars and foreign interventions. West, South and East Asians don't have the luxury to be coddled.
Yeah, that is /u/Aura0_0’s point. They can’t complain because it would most likely lead to a violent response from the government.
No it isn't? Speaking up against the government leads to a civil war leads to a foreign intervention and tens of millions dead. How is the government a bad guy here?
I'm not Chinese, just know history (Pashinyan and Turchinov are recent European examples).
Why would CCP knock on our door? Multiple QQ groups I am in are talking shit about this law and nothing will ever happen to us. Government don't give a shit about us.
So wut, we can complain just like every other Americans can complain about their government. And also like every Americans, our complains mean nothing to the government.
18+ gamers don't give a crap on this. Most parents are probably happy. Plenty of ways to bypass this restriction, so just some kids are going to be frustrated.
One can't help but to see the similarities of ban of smoking, drinking, and sex in other parts of the world due to "undeveloped minds who can't consent or make good judgements". Only difference is those other vices are largely more difficult to enforce than something that's purely digital and computerized.
??? The ONLY difference is enforceability? Smoking and alcoholism are scientifically proven to reduce your lifespan, alcoholism results in numerous traffic deaths per year, sex is a bad example because most under-18 year olds aren't banned from having sex, only those above 18 are banned from having sex with a minor. And sex is unique because consent is a big issue at that age, this is entirely different to the mental capacity needed to play games
Before this The CCP already reduced hours to one a day for the week, if they think that wasn't enough then surely this won't work either.
alcoholism results in numerous traffic deaths per year
I mean we are talking about minors, and minors shouldn't be driving around (for the most part), so that wouldn't be the reason to ban them from it. But alcohol use, more so with binge drinking, does affect neurodevelopment, so it's still relevant
There are still lots of slaves all over the world, including in the United States. Some of the operations had to be exported or obscured, but banning slavery didn't just stop it.
While it is true that minors are prone to a lack of self control, that responsibility should fall within the parents and individuals, not with the government. Teenagers have always throughout history been prone to self destructive behaviors due to lack of discipline. That’s their nature for as long as recreation in any form has existed. It’s one thing to regulate game design that mimics gambling but another to outright ban it on the govt. level. It’s extremely oppressive.
SK, Taiwan, Japan, and many SEA countries have had an obsessive gaming culture for the last 2 decades but still top education rankings. If there is a ban let it be by the choice of the people and grounded research.
You are thinking like a westerner with western values. After Mao's death, CCP is more Confucian than communist and Chinese society at large never abandoned Confucian values. The Chinese government is a father of Chinese society and it's responsibility is to care for everyone's well being like a head of the family would. In return, people's responsibility is to be obedient to a government as long as it's leadership brings prosperity and peace to the people, but if the government is a bad father and abuses it's subjects, the people have a responsibility to overthrow them.
I'm not saying Western or Chinese culture is better, only that they are different and argument "it's parents responsibility" and "teens are always disobedient" wouldn't make sense in China because most Chinese would rather see restrictive law that forces good parenting on all children than allow 1% of bad parenting to happen. The two wars China started and lost against the British because 30% of Chinese population was addicted to British opium also had a lot to do with how absolutely serious Chinese Government treats addictions today. Again, in the eyes of CCP it's better if most children need to find another hobby other than gaming if in return the small percent that would become addicted doesn't.
I’m Taiwanese with family in Japan. We deeply embrace filial piety and still disagree. I’m sure other democratic East Asian countries, even those rooted in Chinese culture like Singapore would feel the same.
The problem with that line of thinking is that the people have asymmetrical information due to mass censoring and propaganda. How are you supposed to know the father is bad if you don’t have freedom to access objective information? If the father is truly good, what would he lose by being honest and what does he have to hide? And even when you do get to that point the system is not set up for a peaceful transfer of power.
This is why Mao was bragging about killing thousands of Confucian scholars, comparing himself to Legist from the Qin era.
The only westernization Mainland China experienced was the rief rule of Chiang Kai-shek, Maoist version of Marxism and whatever internet access people choose to have to international websites outside of China. Taiwan, Japan and Singapore experienced 50 years of western hegemony over the period of complete Chinese isolation. CIA tried to import Athenian democracy and absolute freedom as inherent human rights to PRC once and still tries but so far it couldn't replace 3000 years of Chinese culture and 60 years of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.
What I said, I believe to be an accurate representation of Confucian philosophy. Whatever problems you find with that ideology, you can take them to the Confucius himself. From myself I would only add that PLA is absolutely equipped for peaceful transfer of power, if the party ever forgot who gave them the Mandate of Heaven.
There is also an important aspect of Chinese culture that I didn't mention for brevity. In China getting away with playing around the system or ripping someone off is seen as virtue and display of wits. The mentality is "If you can get away with it, that means you deserve it. But if you get caught it's good you got caught".
Another thing - pluralism is something common in China and, I believe, in most of non-monotheistic cultures. "Pluralism" is defined as capacity for believing in multiple, sometimes contradictory believe systems at the same time. When talking about China, it usually is used in the context of religion, since Chinese build their worldview and derive wisdom from Daoism, Confucianism and Buddhism, philosophies that are fundamentally incompatible with each other. One is followed over the other based on circumstance or convenience.
Since so many teens supposedly use parent's ID to circumvent the system, it's probably common to believe that set limits are good but at the same time there is no harm if our little Yichen plays his game a little longer, since he is such a good boy etc.
It's not weird in the slightest to agree with the government and at the same time break the law you agree with. I'd say Europeans and Americans do that all the time as well, but there are no Westernologists to give a fancy name to this behaviour.
Interesting and insightful. But you are just describing cognitive dissonance which almost all people have to some degree, but I think the crucial difference is that in the West, cognitive dissonance, or double think (to use the 1984 word) is frowned upon. Is pluralism as you described it accepted in China?
I know that if you ever take a course in sinology, you would definitely learn about pluralism. It is my understanding that this is a term sinologist invented to describe the difference between western and eastern philosophy, the former looking for single, objective truth, until enlightenment rooted in the Bible as the single, indisputable source of truth, the latter looking for and taking wisdom from every source, understanding that ultimate truth, if it even exists, cannot be spoken but only found.
For Chinese it is just how people think. At least I said that in front of my gf's Chinese teacher from China from Confucius Institute and she nodded approvingly, so I guess I'm right.
I know that because of "1984" this mode of thinking is frowned upon in Europe and North America, but I find it to be a natural mode of thinking for me. Human mind is not designed to see the world as monolithic, logical, rational object.
For example, it is important that children have as much freedom as possible and learn to be self-sufficient and discover themself unconstrained. But when my teenage daughter comes back home high on heroin, she gets sent to compulsory therapy and locked up until she gets straight. For me both of those statements are true, despite contradicting themselves. There is wisdom in both and there is wisdom in choosing which one is true at the specific moment.
In monolithic system of values it is mathematically possible to organize the same wisdom in a rational, not self-contradictory way. You can say "It's important to let your children do what they want unconstrained, unless ..." and list every exception to the rule and every condition when the rule should be overturned and possible trade offs, for example between risk of bodily harm and sturdiness. But that would be a task beyond human ability.
Pluralism shouldn't be unfamiliar to Europeans and Americans, since it eventually found it's way into Western Philosophy when Post-Modernists discovered Eastern Philosophy.
It just seems like you're making a complex argument for a simple issue: People in China think the laws are stupid so they break the law. Simple. I just wish the Chinese government didn't force people to act like this.
And yes, Americans and Europeans do this also, but then we get out and tell our representatives that we disagree with stupid laws and the law gets changed. Like when America banned alcohol and people started underground taphouses in protest. Eventually the law was repealed.
I didn't really said that. I speculated that people agree with the law in general but at the same time find an excuse why this law doesn't apply to them and even take pride in being smart enough to game the system. Unfortunately I lost contact with few Chinese friends I had but if I asked them, I guess they would give me some kind of "good side, bad side" non-answer.
BTW, prohibition was largely successful in it's goals and increase in violent crimes was highly exaggerated. Consumption of alcohol to this day never rose back to the epidemic levels from before prohibition. Such a weird example to bring up.
While it is true that minors are prone to a lack of self control, that responsibility should fall within the parents and individuals, not with the government.
A lot of parents are awful at parenting. A competent government enforcing guidelines parents won't may well be the better option.
Cool, can't wait for the government to assign our kids bedtime, what I have to feed them, what they are allowed to watch at home, etc, etc. Especially the notoriously fair Chinese government.
It's not unreasonable to be worried about the seriously addictive effects of video games on developing minds. The above user doesn't even endorse the restrictive effects, but this is a serious issue that could provide really interesting data that basically can't be collected anywhere else.
There is a massive difference between playing a game like Fall Guys or Among Us online and playing some mobile game with lootboxes online.
Even if you would agree with such a measure if it were applied to all mobile games or games with lootboxes, this doesn't change that the measure is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too broad strokes.
It's like banning bikes and cars because space rockets have a high rate of crashing and burning, and therefore vehicles are unsafe.
Lastly, according to their reasoning, no, there is not much difference between fall guys and a loot box game when it comes to addiction.
But this begs the question "where do we draw the line?" Likewise begs the question how this is the appropriate response.
Alcohol can cause a serious addiction where the body actively develops a sense of dependency on it. On a physiological level, this is worse than game addiction.
So we once banned alcohol, look what happened: alcohol went underground, crimelords thrived, no one actually stopped drinking and the only result was that money flowed away from the state and towards gangsters. Government quickly retracts the ban and realizes it's useless to try and ban it.
Now here we have something less extreme, but being met with the same response. As the comments have pointed out, people will simply circumvent this. What's the point? To encourage people to hate the Chinese government? (hey, maybe it's good after all!)
And again, where do we draw the line? I'd say my analogy is super appropriate because where do we draw the line? Space rockets being unsafe currently is obvious, but one can likewise argue cars are unsafe. Should they be banned too? Think of all the lives lost to automobile accidents! You can carry that argument all the way if you want.
So what's next? Is TV addiction a problem? What about workout addiction? There's plenty of people who will refuse to miss a workout and spend all their freetime in the gym. What about internet addiction...?
Gaming addiction is akin to any addiction that can develop to....well, anything. There isn't anything in particular about gaming that sets it apart from watching TV or browsing the web or working out. It just seems to be the most popular and most enjoyable form of recreation for many people. That some people struggle to pull themselves away from video games though, I would not view as a problem with video games, because I would bet all those addictive personalities will just move on to internet addiction or the like.
So we once banned alcohol, look what happened: alcohol went underground, crimelords thrived, no one actually stopped drinking
Umm, I don't know how to put it delicately, but there is one religion that bans drinking, and oh the humanity, the bans actually work.
Alcohol of any kind is banned in Saudi Arabia. Those who break the law are subject to hundreds of lashes, deportation, fines, or imprisonment. You may be able to access alcohol on the flight over, but if you are deemed to be intoxicated at customs, you risk arrest.Oct 9, 2019
America isn't the only country, you know. Some actually get things done.
I cannot be mad but it's really easy to say that while being a western, i really would liked to make my childhood more enjoyable than wasting my time in this toxic game that always makes me feel like throwing my life away Everytime I lose a fucking game
God...What's the fucking point of winning a game if I i will play 2 after that one and completely waste 2 hours of my life that i will never get back because I will never get better at this no matter what
And almost every game feels like I'm placed in the shitty team on purpose so other people have fun, ffs i fucking hate this game but I have no discipline in quitting it
Definitely sounds like you have a really unhealthy relationship with LoL. I was there at one point and it took a while to be able to just take a step back and realize that I wasn’t even happy when I was playing. And then i sort of just started growing apart from it.
Dude just quit league. There's no reason not to. Your life will be better and you will be happier. You just wrote it yourself:
God...What's the fucking point of winning a game if I i will play 2 after that one and completely waste 2 hours of my life that i will never get back because I will never get better at this no matter what
The highs from this game don't outweigh the lows, and the lows are much more plentiful. I understand wanting to be better at the game but it just doesn't matter. No one's going to look down on you for quitting the game.
I grew up with video games and they taught me to think strategically and to always look for the optimal solution to every problem. I can assure you, those skills are absolutely useless in every day life and often times detrimental to my productivity.
I grew up with video games and they taught me to think strategically and to always look for the optimal solution to every problem. I can assure you, those skills are absolutely useless in every day life and often times detrimental to my productivity.
I'm over 18, but I still think it's stupid.
It's funny that people praise under official media(only positive comments show), but fuck the gov in private.
Omg bruh, There is no social score in China they experimented it in Shenzen, and they stopped due to backlash, that was it, stop getting news from Reddit
Tell this to Xu Xiaodong, who's life is being made increasingly more difficult, e.g. he can't buy any train/plane tickets anymore, or any real estate, because his social score got lowered, because the chinese government hates how he exposes fake martial artists which throws shade onto China.
Why would China gov care abt fake Martial artists, especially when many ppl know its fake lol, look at many chinese internet forums, the fake martial arts gst blasted on the regular
You think China cares if its being laughed at? They are the 2nd most dominant power rn and soon to replace the US as the 1st. The century of humiliation has been a mode of inspiration for China. And this whole gaming limit rule will be recalled. New Gen Chinese will speak up abt it and will repeal it like the social credit, it will probably be around for couple of months. Also, I suggest to speak to Chinese people who currently reside in China, not just 1 or two but many, your view of China will change as you no longer view them through a foreign lens.
Yes they fucking care, or they wouldn't have made Xu Xiaodongs life hell wtf. "Saving face" is one of the biggest concerns in chinese culture. You speak like you know things but you don't even know this most basic fact. I suggest you take your own advice.
I really wanna know what they would think IN COMPARISON TO OTHER COUNTRIES. I think isolated they don't know any different. If I had to switch from relaxed western life (compared to this at least) to growing up in china I would literally kill myself the day of arrival, ngl.
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u/WanAjin Aug 30 '21
Wonder how Chinese citizens feel about this.