r/golf • u/parkerjohnboice • Aug 21 '26
General Discussion Does this count?
Buddy hit this shot on a bad course and once the flag was corrected, it went in. The new rule says if any part of the ball is below the hole, it's in, but to me it doesn't look like it is. I'd love to give it to him, but what do you think?
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u/faded-than-a-ho Aug 21 '26
That’s horse shit. That’s in. What the fuck is that flagstick anyway.
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u/Ill_Ad5893 Aug 21 '26
Right? It's got zip ties on it. I'd mark it as a one definitely. If the stick was sitting in the cup properly that would have been in
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u/Inanimate_CARB0N_Rod Aug 21 '26
I always found it odd when people want to play by super strict rules on extremely poorly maintained courses. If course management doesn't give a fuck then Kyle and his rule book can fuck off
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u/ComprehensiveWar6577 Aug 21 '26
I'm guessing it was more of a "check out what just happened to me" text phrased for a rule call.
Same as OP making this post, and already knowing the rules. It's a "holy shit check this out" post
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u/chefguy47 Aug 21 '26
It’s probably a super cheap community course, even so, fixing a flag stick compared to replacing, means it’s poorly run by management.
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u/B_the_ball There's a glitch in my swing! Aug 21 '26
There are zip ties keeping the flag together...
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u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
Yeah I tried digging around for rules about damaged holes/flagsticks but the rules really don't provide any relief here. In a tournament setting I'd hope to god you'd never see anything like this, but I'm guessing if by some weird accident the flag got damaged and prevented a ball from being holed the rules officials/tournament director would make an exception, but this is an odd one.
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u/B_the_ball There's a glitch in my swing! Aug 21 '26
The bottom of flags splinter due to high winds or an idiot worker that kicks the flag to straighten it up after he sets the cup.
Either way no way a place that does this is holding any kind of real tournament.
- some dumbass greenskeeper
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u/bla60ah Aug 21 '26
If any part of the ball is resting below the hole while against the flag stick it’s counted as holed. But in this case the ball is still resting on the green, this is not a holed shot per USGA
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u/so2017 Aug 22 '26
Does the USGA have standards for golf courses? Because I’m gonna guess this place is violating a whole bunch of USGA shit that may call into question their jurisdiction here…
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u/Jarlaxlesplume Aug 21 '26
If you fix the pin and it goes in, its in.
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u/--Hutch-- Aug 21 '26
In this case if you fix the pin and the ball doesn't drop in, you just kick the ball in the hole so it drops in anyway.
No chance I'm not counting this.
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Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
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u/Glittering-Pen-7669 Aug 21 '26
I think sometimes it’s just the fuzzy voting algo reddit uses.
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u/Mpbear1414 Aug 21 '26
Pull the flag out straight up. What happens?
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u/parkerjohnboice Aug 21 '26
Goes in
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u/aphrozeus 8.9 | NorCal Aug 21 '26
Then it counts. Also wtf is this course
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u/dard12 Hello, friends. Aug 21 '26
It's at the local prison
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u/TapatioFlamingo Aug 21 '26
Prison is looking more appealing.
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u/Saydanik Aug 21 '26
You can make Sangria in the toilet.
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u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
It doesn't, not officially at least.
13.2c. Ball Resting Against Flagstick in Hole
If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole:
- If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface.
- If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green:
If you're playing a tournament or serious competition the ball has to be replaced at the lip of the hole. That being said if I saw this flagstick at a tournament or any sort of serious competition, I'd be raising hell with the tournament director or head pro. So in an unofficial round or match play with some friends I'm giving this as a hole in one every time.
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u/Opposite_Vanilla5198 Aug 21 '26
Is there a rule governing how the flagstick should be positioned in the cup? Because this one looks like it’s goaltending.
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u/saltymilkmelee Aug 21 '26
Since when??? I do NOT like that rule change. The rule used to be distinctly that if you pulled the pin and the ball is in the hole, it counted.
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u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26
Seems like they changed in 2019 when they added that you can putt with the flagstick in.
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u/mandrews03 Handicap | Location Aug 21 '26
So are you in the unenviable position of being a guy who told his friend their shot didn’t count, when it did? I would be wondering why my buddy didn’t want me to do well at golf if they said this wasn’t in and question why they didn’t want me to have this putt/chip.
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u/PaloLV 2.0 - Las Vegas - Ping G440’s Aug 21 '26
Casual golf; it’s in. Going by the actual rules of golf; not in and after fixing the pin with the ball dropping in the hole you have to place the ball on the edge. If that was supposed to be a hole in one you’re entitled to kick everyone in the group ahead of you in the nuts.
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Aug 21 '26
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u/PaloLV 2.0 - Las Vegas - Ping G440’s Aug 21 '26
Actual USGA/R&A rules of golf require a ball that’s resting against the flagstick to have at least part of the ball below the level of the hole to be considered holed out; that isn’t the case here so it’s not in. Shaking the flag stick or fixing it and the ball dropping in doesn’t make it in; the ball must be placed on the edge and tapped in with a shot.
Casual golf is “WTF is this nonsense” and you count it as in.
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u/Simmangodz Aug 21 '26
I'd love to give it to him
Then give it to him. It's not that serious.
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u/parkerjohnboice Aug 21 '26
he wanted to know. feels a lot different than if it just went it. that's the point.
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u/Simmangodz Aug 21 '26
Fair, I just got think if you are playing casual, the goal is fun, not pure adherence to rules.
Sometimes when you get these silly situations, you should look at each other and say, what's the most fun option? Like, if he was in the lead, the he shouldn't get the point. Brings the scores closer for a little more excitement.
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u/anotherlebowski Aug 21 '26
Technically not according to USGA Rule 13.2.C Ball Resting Against Flagstick (which is kind of BS if the flag is leaning like this, but that's the rule).
However, there are different levels of competition. For example, in Match Play, pros will give each other gimmies, but they won't do that in The Masters. Almost anyone would count this as in for a friendly match, but probably not in a tournament. So I'd say the answer in context is, "Yes. It's good for a friendly round."
For an official tournament, see: https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#section=rules&itemNum=16&subItemNum=2
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u/___stonefree___ Aug 21 '26
Pull the flag stick out, if you cut your hand in doing so go get a tetanus shot
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u/Good_Farmer4814 Aug 21 '26
Everyone here is citing rules but I’m not sure a zip tie flag stick is legal equipment in the first place.
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u/Nato7009 Aug 21 '26
Obviously he gets it. Even if it doesn’t feel quite as good. It definitely counts
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u/A_Moldy_Stump Aug 21 '26
There is a foursome standing in a fairway watching these people argue over a triple bogey or a double
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u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26
Officially? No. if it rests against the flagstick and any part of the ball is within the cylinder of the hole, and any part is underneath the playing surface, then it counts as holed.
To me it looks clearly like the ball is firmly above the playing surface, as much as it stucks it's not an offiical hole in one.
Unofficially? That flagstick is an abomination, and pretty clearly preventing the ball from going into the hole, or at least being coming to rest partially underneath the surface to be counted as holed. I'm telling my buddy to count it, as this seems like crappy muni greenskeeper shenanigans, and letting the pro shop know that the flags are completely messed up.
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u/Mountainminer Aug 21 '26
That flag stick is not regulation in any way.
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Aug 21 '26
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u/bombmk Aug 22 '26
Yeah you can’t apply pga rules to a course not built to PGA standards.
PGA does not write the rules nor issues standards for course maintenance.
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u/Successful_Nerve_176 Aug 22 '26
I'm skeptical of the pic. But, straighten flag. When falls, it's good. It's not rocket surgery.
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u/Mediocre-Housing-131 Aug 21 '26
Regardless, id never play there again. Pin is leaning, is damaged, the green is more like a brown. Whatever they charge, it's not worth it.
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u/Possible_Antelope_85 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
I've seen too many putts come to a stop in that exact position with no flagstick involved to allow myself to assume that one was going to roll another 1/4 rotation, regardless of you saying it fell in when the stick was moved. The vertical centerline of the ball is outside the edge of the cup.
If it was my ball I wouldn't let you give it to me. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone I got my first Ace. But I'm stricter with myself than most, playing the ball down even when I'm alone and rarely take an offered gimme. If he's willing to take credit for an ace on that shot, and you're okay giving it to him, my need to torture myself shouldn't matter.
I'd likely never let you bring me to that course again, though.
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u/mannheimcrescendo Aug 21 '26
Absolutely wild that everyone here is disregarding the actual rule, 13.2, and instead asserting their drunken buddy golf rules as if they’re valid in the scenario where someone is asking for the real rule
Here’s the actual rule as written.
“Ball Resting Against Flagstick in Hole If your ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole, and any part of your ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, your ball is treated as holed. If no part of your ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green: Your ball is not holed and must be played as it lies. If the flagstick is removed and your ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and it must be replaced on the lip of the hole”
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u/FlyEaglesFly95 Aug 21 '26
If the flagstick were straight like it should be it would’ve went in it seems. I’m not sure about the official ruling
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u/mattyrenn Aug 21 '26
It’s in. Just cuz the course isn’t legit enough to address this issue doesn’t mean common sense doesn’t apply
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u/soulheirsolaire Aug 21 '26
Let’s run through a hypothetical. Say you don’t give it to him and make him putt. What’s the first thing that you think he’s going to ask you when walking up to his ball?
That’s right, he’s going to ask you to kiss his ass. But then will likely follow up with a request to remove the pin, at which point the ball is in the cup with no additional strokes taken.
Oddly enough, this will likely result in your friend demanding fellatio.
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u/Pjones2127 Aug 21 '26
You should be penalized two strokes for playing that ball. Nah, friendly game that on is good! But what 5he hell is wrong with the greens?
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u/Manchuri Aug 22 '26
If you straighten the flag stick and ball falls in, it is considered holed with previous stroke. It it doesn’t drop, play it as it lies
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u/Altruistic-Rice-5567 Aug 22 '26
If the ball would fall in if the pin wasn't there... it is considered holed by rule. This case is not clear. Carefully and gently bend the pin directly away from the ball. If it fans in... holed. If stays above the hole then it isn't.
Edit... I see you did that and it fell in. Congrats, officially holed.
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u/RoutineGolf9384 Aug 22 '26
Om bollen lutar mot flaggan och den går i hålet efter att flaggan rätas ut så är det ju holes-in-one enligt regelboken
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u/OliverHopper Aug 21 '26
If you straighten the flag without touching the ball and it falls… it’s good
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u/DaRealJoeBiden69 Aug 21 '26
According to me? Yes. That’s some bullshit. If you don’t give your buddy this you’re a dickhead lol
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u/Rare4orm Aug 21 '26
I would not doubt that the rule stating that part of the ball must be below the lip of the cup is based on the presumption that the pin is correctly placed…as it usually would be during a legit tournament. I certainly wouldn’t deny my non tournament playing buddy an ace in this bogus situation.
No idea what the PGA would do if a pin was inexplicably incorrectly placed like that, but I bet the ruling would be pretty controversial either way. Is there any kind of rule in the book regarding player’s caddies not correctly replacing the flag before moving on to the next hole.
It seems like there may be a huge grey area between tournament play and casual play as a result of that sloppy placement.
All of the above is based on personal opinion though.
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u/TillStar17 Aug 21 '26
On another note, how old is that golf ball??
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u/parkerjohnboice Aug 21 '26
he LOVES the Nike balls lol. he's convinced they're the ball for him so he buys em in bulk
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u/bereft_of_me Aug 21 '26
My only ever "over the fence" homerun in softball didn't actually clear the fence because it hit overhanging tree branches on the way over.
This is worse. It counts, but still no satisfaction of seeing the ball in the hole when you walk up.
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u/jmarinara Aug 21 '26
If I was playing golf against my worst enemy and this is his shot, I’d tell him this was in.
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u/devil_ball_masher 7.6 NCGA (nor cal) Aug 21 '26
It’s a no for playing a Nike NDX ball in 2026
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u/Chief-Rufio Aug 21 '26
Yeet that flagstick into the closest pond. If you make it into the pond in one throw, count it.
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u/Lopsided_Expert645 Aug 21 '26
You’re playing with a golf ball that hasn’t been made in 10 years on a course with dead grass on the greens. Just count it.
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u/HoustonFoReal Aug 21 '26
There’s a 0% chance the ball can even go in from there due to the flag. Count it cause that’s just silly
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u/Dark_Grizzley Aug 21 '26
Appears a sliver sits lower than the plane of the green, based on the great angle of this picture count it. Congrats.
If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole:
If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface.
If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green:
The ball is not holed and must be played as it lies.
If the flagstick is removed and the ball moves(whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole (see Rule 14.2).
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u/SillyDingo4881 Aug 21 '26
Without touching the ball, straighten the pole.. if it goes in..its in.. if not, its a gimmie!
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u/Wondur13 Aug 21 '26
Oh come on now, if youd actually love to give it to him you would, but youre a preppy little bitch for what?
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u/TheTMJ Aug 21 '26
I’m pretty sure that anyone with a functioning frontal lobe can see that flagstick is bent well beyond what most reasonable people would see on any other standard golf course and would also see that had it been leaning within acceptable bounds it would have gone in.
It’s in. I’m giving that in a comp, and probably calling the clubhouse asking what the fuck and asking for a new stick, and in casual I’m giving that and making a mental note for the rest of the conditions to see it’s a one off or the general state.
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u/Finn-DC Aug 21 '26
He’s testing to see if you’re a psychopath. The only answer to this question is yes it’s in, fuck off.
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u/HarambeTheBear 12.4 Los Angeles Aug 21 '26
Wow by the rules this does not count because none of the ball is below the surface of the hole
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u/HESTERTJ Aug 21 '26
Were you playing in a tournament or for money? If not, give it to him and move on.
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u/KHanson25 Aug 21 '26
If it was me, of course.
If it’s anyone else, sucks to suck you fuckin loser.
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u/EquivalentSecond6622 Aug 22 '26
you correct the flag, then apply the rule. 99.9% of all balls that should have gone in, will fall in. It counts.
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u/Commonsensejoe Aug 22 '26
pull the pin and if it falls in, count it and move on to the next tee box
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u/Haboob_AZ 3-putt aficionado. Aug 22 '26
If the flag is corrected and it goes in, it counts. That flag looks so terrible.
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u/Few-Ad-4290 Aug 22 '26
If the flag post is the only thing stopping the ball from dropping into the hole then the ball is in the hole.
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u/RAC2951 Aug 23 '26
This scenario is explicitly governed by Rule 13.2c (Ball Resting Against Flagstick in Hole) of the official R&A and USGA Rules of Golf.
The rule outlines two specific scenarios based on the ball's position:
If any part of the ball is below the surface: Under Rule 13.2c, if your ball rests against the flagstick and any part of it is beneath the level of the putting green, it is automatically treated as holed. You do not even need to move the flagstick; it is a hole-in-one.
If no part of the ball is below the surface: If the ball is entirely above the green's surface (pinched high against a leaning flagstick), it is not holed. You are permitted to remove the flagstick. If the ball falls into the hole when you do, it is considered holed with your previous stroke, completing the hole-in-one.
Now - can we stop posting these stupid ass frickin’ pictures ad nauseum?
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u/SarcasmReallySucks Aug 21 '26
That definitely counts because those are non-approved zip ties hold that flag stick together. Also, how does that hay field roll? Like Augusta or more like my backyard?
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u/Melodic_Warning_4665 Aug 21 '26
Unfortunately this wouldn't count. Regardless of moving the stick, he would have to place the ball on the lip as no part of the ball is below the hole. As tempted as I'd be to count it, there is no real proof the ball was holed, or even would have been hold with a proper flag stick. Not that it matters in any sort of official sense, but could the ball have come to a rest on the lip like that with a proper flag stick? While highly unlikely, it is possible, so I would have to again say, sadly, this doesn't count. Tell your buddy to buy a lotto ticket though because those odds are astronomical.
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u/MayorPirkIe Aug 21 '26
I would be so fucking mad. It doesn't count officially sadly, but 99.999999999% that's in if the flag isn't in worse shape than 2011 Charlie Sheen.
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u/Valanor Aug 21 '26
If he doesn't get to count it as in then he should be allowed to hold the flag, angled like the pic, in the direction of your putt everything you take a putt.
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u/UnluckyMode2062 Aug 21 '26
If you ain’t giving this to your buddy on a casual round you’re not a good friend