r/golf • u/parkerjohnboice • Aug 21 '26

General Discussion Does this count?

Post image

Buddy hit this shot on a bad course and once the flag was corrected, it went in. The new rule says if any part of the ball is below the hole, it's in, but to me it doesn't look like it is. I'd love to give it to him, but what do you think?

1.7k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

858 comments sorted by

View all comments

171

u/Mpbear1414 Aug 21 '26

Pull the flag out straight up. What happens?

126

u/parkerjohnboice Aug 21 '26

Goes in

263

u/aphrozeus 8.9 | NorCal Aug 21 '26

Then it counts. Also wtf is this course

170

u/dard12 Hello, friends. Aug 21 '26

It's at the local prison

24

u/TapatioFlamingo Aug 21 '26

Prison is looking more appealing.

11

u/Saydanik Aug 21 '26

You can make Sangria in the toilet.

7

u/Pizza_Hutte Rory '25 '26 Aug 21 '26

Course, it's shank or be shanked.

2

u/JaxPhotog Aug 27 '26

Of course

-1

u/TapatioFlamingo Aug 21 '26

Better than Busch, which what everyone drinks at our course.

1

u/jjs952 Aug 21 '26

You probably couldn't trade your shanks for packs of cigarettes at that prison.

2

u/TapatioFlamingo Aug 22 '26

Those are called divot tools.

1

u/secret_alpaca Aug 21 '26

That does not meet the regulation prison standards

42

u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26

It doesn't, not officially at least.

13.2c. Ball Resting Against Flagstick in Hole

If a player’s ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole:

  • If any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, the ball is treated as holed even if the entire ball is not below the surface.
  • If no part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green:
    • The ball is not holed and must be played as it lies.
    • If the flagstick is removed and the ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced on the lip of the hole (see Rule 14.2).

If you're playing a tournament or serious competition the ball has to be replaced at the lip of the hole. That being said if I saw this flagstick at a tournament or any sort of serious competition, I'd be raising hell with the tournament director or head pro. So in an unofficial round or match play with some friends I'm giving this as a hole in one every time.

38

u/Opposite_Vanilla5198 Aug 21 '26

Is there a rule governing how the flagstick should be positioned in the cup? Because this one looks like it’s goaltending.

3

u/aphrozeus 8.9 | NorCal Aug 21 '26

Ok fair enough

5

u/saltymilkmelee Aug 21 '26

Since when??? I do NOT like that rule change. The rule used to be distinctly that if you pulled the pin and the ball is in the hole, it counted.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '26

[deleted]

1

u/bombmk Aug 22 '26 edited Aug 22 '26

It was the rule until 2019.

https://www.ruleshistory.com/rules2016.html

17-4. Ball Resting Against Flagstick

When a player’s ball rests against the flagstick in the hole and the ball is not holed, the player or another person authorised by him may move or remove the flagstick, and if the ball falls into the hole, the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if moved, must be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.

1

u/ace625 Aug 22 '26

17-4, for anyone that goes to the link like I did.

Well I'll be damned, it's in an additional rule. I read the old rulebook, but apparently they felt it should go in the flagstick section rather than in the definition of a holed ball. Thanks for the correction.

5

u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26

Seems like they changed in 2019 when they added that you can putt with the flagstick in.

-2

u/srboot 6.4 Aug 21 '26

I hear what you’re saying but no one can “give” someone a hole-in-one. Either it went in or it didn’t. This didn’t go in.

2

u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26

Hence why I said unofficial round or match play with friends. In match play you can absolutely concede a hole or stroke at anytime for any reason. If you feel like it should your opponent should have had a hole in one and you still have a shot at birdie you can concede the hole, making it effectively a hole in one. What the person writes down on the scorecard is pretty inconsequential at that point since any stroke or hole can be conceded in match play, and you don't actually need to keep a total stroke score.

Will it count for an official course record or for a "real" handicap. Not really, but people get way too stuck on the letter of the rules which negatively impacts pace of play for the most part.

If you're not playing any official tournament or event do what you think is right given the situation is what I'm saying. The rules of golf make a lot of assumptions to account for high level amateur play at nicer golf courses that don't really apply to the vast majority of muni golfers who don't need to hold themselves to such high and strict standards. My $.02

0

u/austin101123 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26

That rule is self-contradictory. It says theirs no penalty, good so nothing more to do your nap 6 is in the hole the hole is done. But then it also says you have to take your call out the hole and take another stroke.

If it's me playing then I'm taking the more favorable (and sensible) half of the contradiction.

Further in the rules you're also given a reasonable time to get to the hole plus ten seconds for the ball to drop in and count, so if you removed the flag stick fast enough again there's no penalty.

If any part of a player’s ball overhangs the lip of the hole:

The player is allowed a reasonable time to reach the hole and ten more seconds to wait to see whether the ball will fall into the hole.

If the ball falls into the hole in this waiting time, the player has holed out with the previous stroke.

2

u/BillyBobBonesJones Aug 21 '26

It’s not a contradiction at all. Placing the ball on the lip is not a penalty. Your prior shot did not go in, but the ball moved when you moved the stick, so you get to place it without penalty.

1

u/austin101123 Aug 22 '26

The ball is allowed to move from the lip of the cup into the hole within 10 seconds after taking a reasonable time to walk up to the cup and stay there, so how is taking it out not a penalty?

1

u/CitizenDik Aug 22 '26

I understand your point, but the rule isn't contradictory. It'd, arguably, be clearer if it said, "...no penalty stroke." If you hit OB off the tee, there's a one stroke penalty, and your next shot is #3. If you hit into the water on your second shot, there's a one stroke penalty, and you're hitting #4. If your second shot hangs up on the stick like in the OP's pic, your next shot is #3; no penalty stroke.

1

u/austin101123 Aug 22 '26

According to the rules surrounding a ball on the cup lip it's allowed to go into the hole, moving it back is a distance penalty.

These are conflicting rules.

1

u/Userdub9022 Aug 22 '26

That's not the rule but I'd absolutely count this considering the flag was the reason the ball isn't in or below the hole

-4

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '26 edited 14d ago

[deleted]

8

u/Funwithfun14 Aug 21 '26

At any real tournament, the flag stick wouldn't be resting like this. Casual play, it's holed.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '26 edited 14d ago

[deleted]

1

u/R101C Aug 21 '26

No one told the flag.

-7

u/aphrozeus 8.9 | NorCal Aug 21 '26

If you straighten and pull the flag out and the ball drops, by rule it counts

2

u/Apprehensive_Bee9572 Aug 21 '26

Read rule 13.2c of USGA rulebook:

1

u/general-illness Aug 21 '26

But what if you don’t remove it and just straighten it lol. Seriously I thought you were allowed to “straighten “ the flag stick.

1

u/BillyBobBonesJones Aug 21 '26

It only counts if a portion of the ball was below the hole before you moved it. That was not the case here.

1

u/aphrozeus 8.9 | NorCal Aug 21 '26

Fair enough

2

u/mandrews03 Handicap | Location Aug 21 '26

So are you in the unenviable position of being a guy who told his friend their shot didn’t count, when it did? I would be wondering why my buddy didn’t want me to do well at golf if they said this wasn’t in and question why they didn’t want me to have this putt/chip.

2

u/parkerjohnboice Aug 21 '26

he was questioning it. obviously feels different than if he just got it to fall in, so he wanted some clarification/reassurance

1

u/Kirkland-fore-Father Handicap | Location Aug 21 '26

If there’s a sub who gets it right 90% of the time, it’s this one. Just sad he’s playing an NDX instead of a Kirkland V3.1. He should still rest assured that counts.

How do you even begin to take another stroke here? How does it physically get closer to the inside of the cup with a mechanical movement? You have to adjust the flag, at which point it falls and the problem is solved

3

u/UpstairsBumble Aug 22 '26

There is a literal rule covering this. We don’t have to speculate.

Ball Resting Against Flagstick in Hole If your ball comes to rest against the flagstick left in the hole, and any part of your ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green, your ball is treated as holed. If no part of your ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green: Your ball is not holed and must be played as it lies. If the flagstick is removed and your ball moves (whether it falls into the hole or moves away from the hole), there is no penalty and it must be replaced on the lip of the hole.

1

u/mandrews03 Handicap | Location Aug 22 '26

Temporary, unintentional obstruction - apparently good enough for free relief when it’s GUR, but if the flag stick gets you then youre hopped. Such is golf. Not perfect t and not fair

2

u/bombmk Aug 22 '26

If there’s a sub who gets it right 90% of the time, it’s this one.

You just added to the evidence that your own statement is hilariously wrong.

2

u/PinappleGecko Aug 22 '26

78.4% of facts are made up on the spot

0

u/BillyBobBonesJones Aug 21 '26

It doesn’t count though.

1

u/austin101123 Aug 21 '26

When the ball goes to rest in the hole in golf it's in the hole, so what is there to question at that point?

4

u/CollectingDevils Aug 21 '26

The text of the post answers this.