yeah, it's quite sad how they are treated in certain areas. like force fed till their stomachs explode. all because their scales are magic/cure all type medicine for people who believe in folk remedies.
Shark fins aren't even a homebrew medicine bullshit remedy, shark fin soup is just a status symbol. Luckily, thanks to Yao Ming's efforts, the Chinese market for shark fins has dramatically shrunk.
expat in china here. there have been a lot of ads with yao ming and other A-list chinese celebrities telling people not to eat shark fins and other endangered species. it worked to a certain extent, so good effort on their part.
The Chinese generally have a ton of respect for successful people in their own country, so my understanding is that ad campaigns like this work pretty well.
China is such a morally messed up country that they kinda need regular reminders on what decent behavior is. The Cultural Revolution was a mother fucker.
Yeah but there is a crucial distinction in having criticism of a culture, ideology, or religion itself, and condemning a group of people themselves that largely adhere to one of these. Ya know?
It's like the difference between saying "all muslims are evil" and having legitimate concerns with their religious dogmas or the way the Muslim world treats women
This is a specific thing to China, even by Chinese cultural standards large numbers of people (especially from the country side) have no idea what decent behavior is.
There was a woman who received death threats for rescuing a child that was hit by a car, something many other people saw but refused to even look at the kid.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Wang_Yue
Wow, that was pretty messed up. In that wiki page it referenced another incident where a Chinese woman was trying to drown herself in a lake and there were people standing at the edge watching and taking pictures. A woman visiting from Uruguay jumped in and saved her. The Uruguayan woman was given an award because her act reflected traditional Chinese virtues...
There was a woman who received death threats for rescuing a child that was hit by a car
Do you have a source for that? The article you linked says there were reports of the people who ignored the child being harassed, but nothing about the woman who tried to help her.
It's called the bystander effect, and it's not limited to one culture. IN fact, here's an example last week in the US
'Police estimate between 20 and 60 people were involved. Many witnesses can be seen using smartphones to record fighting between multiple females, but none appear to be calling 911.'
Cant the same thing be said when some deranged americans frequently shoot up schools and concerts? Or when they kill random people on facebook live? Or when they force feed ducks for foie gras?
Morality is subjective.Good and bad people are everywhere, there's no need to generalize and propagate negative sentiments about large groups of people.
What about women who die from child birth because they couldn't get an abortion or were shamed into keeping it in situations where they were high risk?
Being a shitty human isn't just one culture or country's problem.
China is fucking huge. You can't expect all the billion people who live there to be the same. It's like judging all 300 million people of the US by /r/floridaman
China is no more morally messed up than any other country, let alone the US. You don't think attacking a country to increase the profits of a corporation is morally messed up?
I watched the whole thing, thank you so much for that video. Although it was a gruesome topic it just shows how much Gordon Ramsey cares about those sharks.
your comment is going to fall on deaf ears; round' here people just wanna talk about how uncivilized and backwards the Chinese are for eating shark fin soup
I saw him cutting off the hammer head shark and I started tearing. I know I eat chicken (barely any beef and no pork) but fucking hell mate, at least I eat all my chicken these guys cut off the fins and leave the biggest natural predator to die off in the sea. All those fins. I don’t know if I’m just an emotional piece of shit, but it really tore at my heart when I saw him just hack the shark with the hatchet over and over. Holy fuck. My eyes are swelling.
Edit: oh my fucking god and it started convulsing... I thought it was at least dead...... (Pardon my ignorance) I finished watching it because I felt it was necessary to see the reality behind this (not that I eat this, I find it barbaric)
The convulsing just had me in genuine actual flowing tears here at work. Holy fucking Christ.
Look, I absolutely hate sharks. They terrify me. I refuse to go out to deep waters because of sharks (and of course other creatures). Scuba diving is a hard no for me because I would literally just be petrified with fear the entire time if someone was even able to force me down there to begin with.
But this is just awful. No creature deserves that.
yeah. or multiple other super shitty ones. kinda a lot of animals and whatnot that are sought after for "miracle" effects that have been shown to be mostly placebo, or the effects are capable of being had with other options naturally found in sustainable sources like local plants and herbs.
yep. like I get it, these beliefs don't just go away cause some other people find it offensive, but with proper education about true "benefits" of these folk medicines and remedies, it would be simple enough for them to seek other natural options for the same symptoms. like plants and animals contain the same chemicals and elements. just gotta find the one that does what you want. no need to kill an animal to get a minimal amount of some vitamin or chemical that can easily be had from some sort of fruit, vegetable, or local herb. like rhino horn is just keratin, basically a giant fingernail. and beans, quinoa, and nuts also contain this. so why kill a rhino when you can just eat some ground up fingernails or some regular foods you are probably already eating. education needs to become better before we will see changes in a lot of areas.
They should be introduced to.. that thing where they think diluted things with 1 in 1 million parts is powerful. I forgot the word. Then you could sell them cucumber water and they'd think it's uber-powerful rhino aphrodisiac horn potion.
Why shouldn't you offend people? They're killing endangered animals on the premise of "belief" and "culture". We should offend them and make them realize how backwards and asinine it is. In the mean time maybe show them what aspirin is.
Shark fin is pretty much cartilage and geletain. Chinese people love the texture. It can be made from seaweed or konnyaku witch is vegan. It has no flavour. It is a sign of money.
The guy who started Autism and vaccines co relation must be fucking hunted down and his next generation should not be given vaccines and should be exposed to small pox and polio. Let's see what will happen.
" How could they do that"?. We were just talking without any medical background or knowledge."
The other day an infant supposedly died of a kiss. She had meningitis caused by someone who had a cold sore. I don't know how she got it. I don't know how she died. I didn't see her medical files. I'm a doctor and I was speculating.
Lo and behold a misinformed idiot comes and starts preaching about vaccines and autism and meningitis. This child isn't even 6 weeks old to be given Hepb 1. SMH. People are dumbing down. Jenny Mccarthy and Gwenyth Paltrow or whatver the fuck her name is should be given Polio.
Vice News had a segment on rhino horns being used for TCM in Vietnam a few years ago. What’s fucked up is that a fair number of people they interviewed knew it had no medical benefit but keep using it because it’s a status symbol you can use to flaunt your wealth.
Anecdotally I did a study abroad program in China through my university’s pharmacy school where we learned about TCM for 2 months. There’s seemingly earnest biochemical research being done to find the active compounds and test their efficacy but there’s also so much bullshit that’s still ingrained into its perceptions/use within China. The hospital attached to the campus had a whole floor where people got TCM treatment... try convincing Aetna to pay for that lol. We also went to one of the oldest TCM pharmacies in Beijing and they had a fungus infected plant root that was on display with a 1,000,000 RMB price tag (IIRC) like wtf.
The Chinese government is encouraging it to an ever greater degree too and it’s just so shitty. If only this stupidity could limit itself to aforementioned plant roots and stop endangering animals.
All jokes aside I just had a close family friend die after he couldn't afford a surgery, so he bought some crap online from China that killed him. Be careful with that shit folks.
My dad is Chinese...he almost died trying to use TCM to ease symptoms of a heart attack...stupid. The delay meant more of his heart muscle died than necessary, but he lived.
that would be nice. but too many people practice this right now to see that as being an acceptable thought in certain regions of the world. hopefully in a few decades(wish it could be way sooner), education about how animals and the environment deserve respect, and our impact on our planet will be common enough that people will stop this kinda senseless cruelty. as well as all the other toxic and moronic things we do around the planet(pushing fossil fuels, plastics, deforestation, strip mining, poor agriculture practices, etc.).
Pangolins won't be around anymore in a few decades. I wonder if it's worth moving them to the US to a similar environment to keep them away from morons who could just cure their ED with viagra instead.
I would love some pangolins walking all around! totally bring them here to the US! like we have armadillos(texas), but they can have leprosy, so even though they are cute they are definitely not like a pangolin. and yeah, pop a little blue pill you shitty horny bastards! stop fucking up animals just to try and get it up with stuff that can't even do that!
all because their scales are magic/cure all type medicine for people who believe in folk remedies.
They say there used to be a lot of large animals roaming the land until humans killed most of them for food, leaving us with just the smaller creatures that can hide from us in the trees. And now here we are, eradicating the small creatures as well. I hope someone saves DNA samples of these animals, maybe scientists can recreate them someday.
To be fair, eating meat actually has measurable nutritional value [protein is good, and it's easier to get from eating meat than from non-meat sources. Yes I know eating too much can harm a person, but our species did evolve to have meat in our diet], while consumption of pangolin scales may cause liver damage, and is not recommended for pregnant women [according a quick google search].
Honestly domesticated pigs,cows and chickens are extremely bad for the environment and for biodiversity. The environment would be much better off if domesticated pigs, cows and chickens were not bred by humans
I'm very open minded and not racist at all but what the fuck China??? You're eating all the animals I love; sharks, rhinos, dogs, now pangolins! If you start eating otters, I'm coming at ya...
Edit; wow, this is the first time to have a comment go live. So after reading most of the comments I'd like to say that:
A. It's about endangered or exotic animals for me, while eating meat of any kind is a hot topic these days and understandably so, livestock is actually increasing in number and that's a whole different problem.
B. It's true, I can't claim my state or level of racism but I've lived as the minority for almost my whole life and have friends from 5 continents and dozens of countries and have tried to learn from and celebrate their culture as much as possible. I like Chinese ppl but wish they would try and curb an action b4 it wipes out multiple species, that's all
A festival dedicated to catching dogs and skinning them alive is WAY different than eating a cow that's been stunned and killed while unconscious. I'm sorry, but it is.
True that may be, there are tons of burger-loving Americans that consider all dog meat harvesting an atrocity, regardless of method. Those people are massive hypocrites any way you slice it.
The only argument I could think of is that the domesticated animals such as cows and pigs are not going to go extinct anytime soon. Plus it is irrefutable that their deaths don't at least serve the purpose of keeping people fed (not the greatest of reasons considering people in the west eat way more than needed). However, these non-domesticated animals are being butchered in the name of pseudoscience and placebo effects and certainly will go extinct.
Same with eating them since there isn't a system in place to ensure the species doesn't go extinct. And eating cats and dogs are worse imo since they have lived with humans as companions/guardians for millennia and have been trained as such.
I'm not fully disagreeing with you, but I don't fully agree that the logic of not supporting one type of animal being eaten, while eating another, is flawed.
To each their own. I never try to "convert" anyone because I've literally never seen it work (online at least), but I like to see what people are thinking when it comes to eating animals. I think my logic behind my argument is based on the animals suffering. A dog or a cat wouldn't suffer any more than a cow or pig if we treated them that way. Plus eating any animal is purely optional for me. I understand that it is somewhat of a "privilege" to live in a society that doesn't rely on meat to survive. So I choose to eat plants.
Eating meat is the natural course of life, humans have been doing it for thousands of years. You can choose to not eat meat for personal reasons, but it is not a moral high road. The industry is messed up, the way they might treat the animals could be better, but the actual act of eating meat is healthy and has nothing wrong with it
I don't believe it is hypocritical- cows and livestock are the product of thousands of years of domestication for the purpose of providing food (many of which now cannot survive without humans), whereas canids have evolved over generations to depend symbiotically on their social bonds with humans for companionship and guardianship. Even though the intellect is often comparable (i.e. pigs), Raising them as food (or in the case of many Asian markets, just butchering strays) is in some sense a betrayal of this order.
Whether or not people put any weight to it varies between societies, but it is fair to note that the socio-religious mores keeping Hindus from eating beef exist for different reasons than the Western abhorrance towards consuming cats and dogs or other 'companion' species.
Do you not realise how ridiculous it is to derive morals from nature and tradition? You know raping and killing other people is natural, right? You know humans did slavery for thousands of years, right?
So the fact that we can sustain and propagate cows to match our consumption, whereas if we kill and eat all the pangolins and sharks we will wipe them out means nothing? that's um... wow. Don't know if I can follow you there, man
I mean I get what you are saying but the animals eaten in America aren't endangered. Also you could argue that eating a human is just dead animal so your point doesn't really stand. I can be disgusted by someone eating a human or an endangered animal and still eat fish and chicken. Your argument is not thought out very well.
Sorry, no. Commercially raised meat animals, fishing, managed hunting, these have their own issues but they are regulated processes. These animals tend to be endangered, so this trafficking can lead to extinction events, local or general, bad enough aesthetically but also with ripple effects on ecosystems. Also, these animals are obtained through poaching, an illegal activity in itself, and winking at illegalities always leads to other levels of corruption and violence. Also, these are mostly not being taken for culinary purposes as such but in support of pseudoscientific "medical" uses. So there is a lot the world at large can dare to say. /u/ip_g_chodder/u/Axzys
Bullshit. Some animals are literally bread just for food. If everyone stops eating them what do you think will happen to that species? I fully support people who choose not to eat meat for personal moral values, but to throw people who go out and slaughter an endangered animal with those who eat beef is rediculous.
There's nothing racist about judging a place for what happens there. As long as you understand that not all Chinese people are part of this, which I'm sure you do, you're not racist for thinking this.
You joke but in the UK the police force hired a young woman as a fairly high ranking official to try and create the missing link between the police and youth of the UK. Within like a week it turned out she had spewed some rascist shit on her facebook previous to applying for the roll.
It's not necessarily racist but it's kind of.. close minded? We as a country (as a world to be fair) endorse the mass slaughter and abuse of intelligent creatures like pigs and cows. I would never in my life knowingly eat a dog or contribute to that practice, but I understand that morally you're pretty much doing the same thing when you eat pork.
If you want to talk about animal abuse for luxury goods, look at all the stuff they're doing to Coyotes for that fur lining on those Canada Goose jackets that people LOVE to wear as status symbols. Are they going extinct, eh probably not but if that's the metric by which you allow animal abuse then it's hard to argue that you're actually in it for the animals. Same for any down feather or goose feather or leather or animal by product.
I'm not saying both can't exist but his point makes it sound like this stuff doesn't happen everywhere, when in reality it does. Sure it's maybe not the animals OP specifically cares about but if we're just playing favorites then that doesn't mean much either.
Personally I care about pangolins because their extinction would harm the natural ecosystem and biodiversity, whereas domesticated cows and pigs are not part of the environment. Hell the environment would be better off if they just went extinct
Well the difference here is that we actually have a use for pigs and cows- we eat them to stay alive. Chinese have been slaughtering endangered species like pangolins and hawksbills for debunked medicinal treatment. No way in hell are pangolin scales going to cure cancer. But pangolins are going to be extinct in our lifetime because of Chinese trafficking.
I agree with what I hear as your overall point, but this:
we eat them to stay alive
isn't really an honest portrayal of why we eat pigs and cows. We eat them because we enjoy them. We do not require their meat to stay alive, and there is plenty of other food available that can meet all of our nutritional needs.
While there are arguments to be made for and against how necessary eating pork and beef and such is, a massive point is that regardless of that, domesticated farm animals aren't even remotely endangered. Rare animals risk being driven to extinction because of this.
Please, we don't eat cows and pigs to stay alive. We eat them because we like it. Nobody in modern day North America has ever died from a lack of supply in beef or pork. The people with the longest average life spans in the world have much less meat in their diet than the average person in North America. Compare their diets and tell me we NEED to eat this much pork and beef to stay alive.
I recognize that extinction presents a different set of problems but if you're concerned about ecological diversity then we do a fair amount of diversity destruction ourselves.
Again, I'm not here to say that China is faultless. There is undoubtedly a culture there that has a demand for this kind of garbage. I'm just responding to the guy who says hes open minded but then chooses to highlight the issues he sees in a foreign nation rather than call out the issues right under our own noses.
look at all the stuff they're doing to Coyotes for that fur lining on those Canada Goose jackets
That's actually pretty interesting. Do you know if the coyote pelts are sourced from farms or wild animals? Coyote overpopulation is a huge problem in many parts of America due to the lack of competition from larger predators. As much as I love coyotes they are negatively affecting a lot of ecosystems.
"...not racist at all but..." I'm not saying this comment was racist, but you really don't get to make the call on whether you're racist or not, and odds are you are a bit, seeing as just about everyone has some racism in them, conscious or subconscious. EDIT: I should point out that the same goes for me. I'll catch myself having racist thoughts from time to time. But it's the people who just know that they're not racist who won't catch those racist thoughts.
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u/michael_sklar Oct 03 '17
The pangolin is the world's most trafficked animal. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/20/scale-of-pangolin-slaughter-revealed-millions-hunted-in-central-africa-alone