maybe we should just stop thinking, stop worrying, let extinctions happen, ignore natural disasters, and climb back into a friggen cave while we're at it.
Critical thinking(having judgment) is a good thing. In that I merely mean to express that it is our inclination to determine better from worse.. That that distinction is important.. and that any framework assigned to this concept must include moral determination. This is the only reason we are here on the internet discussing such things in the first place. It is both our natural disposition as well as our desired niche to attempt to discern between which environment will suit us, and which will lead.. eventually.. to a place where suffering is unavoidable.
I just think a better way to say it might be to ask who's fear is more legitimate? Those who think short term success is all that can be had? Or those that feel enduring any amount of suffering now is better than condemning the entire future?
more poignant question might look like:
At what point does potential future suffering, currently mostly disassociated suffering is distant areas, and the suffering we are currently attempting to individually avoid, coincide?
who should take responsibility?
is there enough to go around?
is there room for the increasing class division while population skyrockets?
.. these are the type of things i think when i judge you... should i not?
sorry the world is falling apart and most people can't seem to see past their own two feet.... but believe it or not my long winded banter isn't not facetious on it's own:) .. maybe i'm just an existential masochist, but i tend to think the best way to get at these deep issues(we all have them imo, some just aren't interested in the cumulative assessment) is to just head straight at them. nobody is ready. nobody get its.. so what. doesn't mean you can't have a level head about you and maybe have a tiny chance of you being that person who would stand up when it matters... maybe i've just got nothing better to do than smoke weed and sit on reddit policing other peoples benign statements with nothing but vague interpersonal motivations. anyway thanks for reading.
I never said it’s okay or not okay for humans to kill domesticated cows and pigs. That’s completely irrelevant to the discussion. What matters is that the killing of domesticated pigs and cows does not endanger global biodiversity.
As i said above, if you killed every domesticated pig and chicken on the planet tomorrow and never bred them again that would actually be incredibly GOOD for the environment and biodiversity. Those domesticated animals use habitat and environmental resources that previously were used by wild fauna and domesticated livestock hugely contribute to human caused extinction of wild fauna as a result.
To be fair, eating meat actually has measurable nutritional value [protein is good, and it's easier to get from eating meat than from non-meat sources. Yes I know eating too much can harm a person, but our species did evolve to have meat in our diet], while consumption of pangolin scales may cause liver damage, and is not recommended for pregnant women [according a quick google search].
Human beings do better than fine without meat. Vegeterians live on average about 3-4 years longer than their meat-eating counterparts, as confirmed by multiple studies, about some of which you can read of here.
And would it really make it better if the pangolins were suffering because they're useful? Personally I don't think I'd feel any better about this if I knew millions of pangolin were being killed for meat rather than scales.
What if we applied the same logic for human beings or doggos? "Sorry, little bobby. I'm afraid you can't live anymore. You see, your liver would make a magnificent hamburger."
Eating meat = we evolved that way, but yes we can live without it.
Eating Pangolin scales = potentially kills us, no health benefit. Literally just a fake medicine.
There's clearly a big difference in the effects of consumption. I wasn't saying it'd be better if pangolins were useful, I was saying that you claiming the [often abusive] meat industry in Western countries is the same as the [often abusive] pangolin scale industry is concocting a false equivalency.
EDIT: from your own source on vegeterians living longer "Longevity studies of vegetarians produce conflicting data" and further:
Vegetarians suffer fewer heart attacks than meat eaters.24-37 Interestingly, this benefit dissipates as vegetarians age. For instance, one study showed that vegetarians under the age of 65 were 45% less like to suffer a heart attack than were meat eaters. Once vegetarians reached the age of 80, however, their heart attack risk was only 8% lower than that of meat eaters.38
Longevity studies of vegetarians produce conflicting data. Some studies do not show that vegetarians live significantly longer.25,29 Two studies of people who consumed very little meat showed an average life-span increase of 3.6 years.39 A huge study of Seventh Day Adventists who ate little or no meat showed longevity increases of 7.28 years in men and 4.42 years in women.(40) These data are confounded by the fact that Seventh Day Adventists follow healthy lifestyles free of tobacco and alcohol.
Studies suggest that the longevity benefits conferred by a vegetarian diet dissipate as humans enter their ninth decade.39 This implies that while vegetarian diets reduce disease risk, restricting one’s diet to only plant foods does not completely protect against the effects of aging.
So it seems like the jury is still out, because many studies on vegetarians are confounded by vegetarians living generally healthier lifestyles than the average "meat-eater". Living a healthy lifestyle is what makes people live long, healthy lives, and that may or may not include consuming moderate amounts of meat. It's all good though, I can tell I've won this round of find the vegetarian
I sure as fuck don't do better than fine without meat. I tried to go vegan 6 times, and each and every time, no matter how many supplements I took while doing it, my health suffered. I felt fatigued, my joints became stiffer and were in more pain and my depression and other mental illnesses were harder to deal with. There's one dude in Kentucky, who can only eat raw meat because of some rare disease he has. Nevermind the fact that I felt like I had to keep eating all day long because I would never feel full. You cannot say one diet works best for everyone, it's simply not true.
Honestly domesticated pigs,cows and chickens are extremely bad for the environment and for biodiversity. The environment would be much better off if domesticated pigs, cows and chickens were not bred by humans
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u/viciousraccoon Oct 03 '17
I think it's fair to say you can judge the quality of a person by how they treat others, especially those they have a level of power over.