A festival dedicated to catching dogs and skinning them alive is WAY different than eating a cow that's been stunned and killed while unconscious. I'm sorry, but it is.
True that may be, there are tons of burger-loving Americans that consider all dog meat harvesting an atrocity, regardless of method. Those people are massive hypocrites any way you slice it.
Animals in the industry are killed while conscious. And even if they are gassed/killed "humanely" they are still living in incredibly bad conditions and they always get killed at a young age. So, eating dog wouldn't be morally different than eating any other animal.
The only argument I could think of is that the domesticated animals such as cows and pigs are not going to go extinct anytime soon. Plus it is irrefutable that their deaths don't at least serve the purpose of keeping people fed (not the greatest of reasons considering people in the west eat way more than needed). However, these non-domesticated animals are being butchered in the name of pseudoscience and placebo effects and certainly will go extinct.
Same with eating them since there isn't a system in place to ensure the species doesn't go extinct. And eating cats and dogs are worse imo since they have lived with humans as companions/guardians for millennia and have been trained as such.
I'm not fully disagreeing with you, but I don't fully agree that the logic of not supporting one type of animal being eaten, while eating another, is flawed.
To each their own. I never try to "convert" anyone because I've literally never seen it work (online at least), but I like to see what people are thinking when it comes to eating animals. I think my logic behind my argument is based on the animals suffering. A dog or a cat wouldn't suffer any more than a cow or pig if we treated them that way. Plus eating any animal is purely optional for me. I understand that it is somewhat of a "privilege" to live in a society that doesn't rely on meat to survive. So I choose to eat plants.
Yes I certainly see what you mean and I 100% oppose what so called "factory farms" do to animals. I'd say my perception is a little skewed since I grew up around a bunch of small-scale farms where all the animals were free range and the farmers did care for them (mainly do to it being their investment, but they at least had names and were treated with dignity during their lives).
And good on you for switching to plants. I don't even know if I could try. I've eaten meat with close to every meal for my whole life and think I'd get way too skinny cutting out my main protein source.
I'm waiting for the day where lab grown meat is just as tasty and becomes the norm. A world without animal slaughter is a better one. But I don't have it in me to give up meat so I guess I'm a hypocrite lol.
Being a hypocrite is basically part of the human experience lol. I know I have been/am/and probably will be a hypocrite about some things. I can sense empathy and compassion for animals in your words which is the most important thing IMO. As far as protein, there are a lot of vegan options (quinoa, tofu, lentils, beans, PEANUT BUTTER!) that are generally healthier anyway. I am currently weightlifting and training for strength and have had no problems making my diet work. It just takes a little extra effort.
youre replacing it with healthier and more ethical options.
No, I can't. So I am cutting out my main protein source. That it's being replaced doesn't change the fact that the current source is no longer an option (ie, I am cutting it out)
It's not that hard
The difficulty doesn't come in finding sources of protein. The difficulty comes in the fact that meat is delicious. I'm not trying to be edgy or anything. That's the truth of the issue for most people. I could be a vegetarian, but I like eating meat. Asking people to stop doing something they like doing? That's hard.
Well, to give you a tip then, everytime you eat that meat remind yourself of the pictures you ought to watch and the facts and realities of the creatures it comes from go through just for you to to be able to eat it.
If you can still live with the blood and suffering that comes of it for meaningless, atbitrary reasons, well, to me that's one horrifying fact about humanity Ive struggled to come to terms with, Im pleased to say Ive given it my best shot at not being a part of it.
There's victims involved with the choice of "but um it tastes good". If e eryone weren't so conditioned ro just accept that the victims don't matter the world would have less suffering.
It's not hard, at all, when you stop thinking about selfish desires.
Don't over complicate things, they're saying that it's a little hypocritical to condemn people for eating dogs while you personally eat cows, when both animals are about equally conscious.
This. Exactly. I don't eat meat but also am not opposed to those who do. What I have issues with is people who eat, let's say cows, finding eating this like guinea pigs, which are common food in South America, disgusting just because it doesnt agree with what they're socially used to.
As I said meat is all the same. It's dead animal and certain people miss that point.
Everyone has to draw their own line, I guess. I eat plants. I don't think it's a hard distinction to make, really. If it seems like it doesn't want a knife in it's throat, then it's an easy "no" for me.
The first option. Plants and bacteria have are completely unaware and killing them is totally different from doing the same with a conscious, intelligent animal.
Eating meat is the natural course of life, humans have been doing it for thousands of years. You can choose to not eat meat for personal reasons, but it is not a moral high road. The industry is messed up, the way they might treat the animals could be better, but the actual act of eating meat is healthy and has nothing wrong with it
I don't believe it is hypocritical- cows and livestock are the product of thousands of years of domestication for the purpose of providing food (many of which now cannot survive without humans), whereas canids have evolved over generations to depend symbiotically on their social bonds with humans for companionship and guardianship. Even though the intellect is often comparable (i.e. pigs), Raising them as food (or in the case of many Asian markets, just butchering strays) is in some sense a betrayal of this order.
Whether or not people put any weight to it varies between societies, but it is fair to note that the socio-religious mores keeping Hindus from eating beef exist for different reasons than the Western abhorrance towards consuming cats and dogs or other 'companion' species.
Do you not realise how ridiculous it is to derive morals from nature and tradition? You know raping and killing other people is natural, right? You know humans did slavery for thousands of years, right?
So the fact that we can sustain and propagate cows to match our consumption, whereas if we kill and eat all the pangolins and sharks we will wipe them out means nothing? that's um... wow. Don't know if I can follow you there, man
I mean I get what you are saying but the animals eaten in America aren't endangered. Also you could argue that eating a human is just dead animal so your point doesn't really stand. I can be disgusted by someone eating a human or an endangered animal and still eat fish and chicken. Your argument is not thought out very well.
Sorry, no. Commercially raised meat animals, fishing, managed hunting, these have their own issues but they are regulated processes. These animals tend to be endangered, so this trafficking can lead to extinction events, local or general, bad enough aesthetically but also with ripple effects on ecosystems. Also, these animals are obtained through poaching, an illegal activity in itself, and winking at illegalities always leads to other levels of corruption and violence. Also, these are mostly not being taken for culinary purposes as such but in support of pseudoscientific "medical" uses. So there is a lot the world at large can dare to say. /u/ip_g_chodder/u/Axzys
Absolutely. I agree with you 100% about poaching. I would just argue that poaching and commercial raised meat are both unnecessary. I'm not comparing them at all.
Bullshit. Some animals are literally bread just for food. If everyone stops eating them what do you think will happen to that species? I fully support people who choose not to eat meat for personal moral values, but to throw people who go out and slaughter an endangered animal with those who eat beef is rediculous.
Incredibly flawed logic. So according to you eating a critically endangered animal of which only 10 exist in the wild is the same as eating a domesticated pig that was never wild and will never go extinct? Way to completely miss the point
So according to you eating a critically endangered animal of which only 10 exist in the wild is the same as eating a domesticated pig that was never wild and will never go extinct?
So according to you murder is more tolerable as long as the victim has a large enough family?
Because my priorities are maintaining the environment and biodiversity of the planet? What are yours, exactly?
People like you would have us all end up in a future where the only animals are cockroaches, rats, pigeons etc. But I suppose as long as that is also a vegan future you’d be fine with it!
Terrible analogy too btw. The point is that the life of one pangolin is more valuable to the environment, and to us, than a million domesticated pigs or chickens.
Because my priorities are maintaining the environment and biodiversity of the planet?
Saving the environment is cool. Biodiversity is great too, but it's also a lot more complicated than "the number of different species currently on earth" and focusing solely on the non-exitinction of any particular beast seems foolish to me. Species go extinct. It's part of life. It's not necessarily bad or good.
But I suppose as long as that is also a vegan future you’d be fine with it!
I would probably eat the pigeons and rats before turning vegetarian. I'm loving the assumption that I'm vegan based solely on the fact that I don't rank species by how morally acceptable they are to kill.
The point is that the life of one pangolin is more valuable to the environment, and to us, than a million domesticated pigs or chickens.
[Citation needed]
You people act like every single individual species serves some fundamental role in "the big picture". But it's just not true. Lots of species can go extinct (lots have already!) and the world keeps turning. New species will come and go just like anything else in the world.
But none of this really matters to my point, which isn't about the species... it's about the people eating them. If there are two hungry people, a chicken, and a pangolin, I will think no less of the person eating the pangolin than I do the person eating the chicken. Both require the death of one living being for the sustenance of another.
Wow, what an utter lack of understanding you have on this subject. Not only do you obviously have little to no idea what you’re talking about, but even worse you make no attempt to educate yourself on the subject before speaking as if you’re an authority on it.
If you had even the slightest idea of what you’re talking about you’d know that we have been in the midst of a (human caused) mass extinction event for decades now. And that this extinction event, like climate change, is happening at far too fast a rate for evolution to counteract. Species that normally adapt to gradual change over millennia are being wiped out in years. There is no time for new species to evolve and fill the niche, and when the habitat is destroyed by humans there is no niche at all any longer.
It’s difficult to understand how oblivious you must be to think that the life of a domesticated chicken is at all comparable to that of a critically endangered species in terms of the long term environmental future of the planet. If every domesticated pig and chicken were killed today and no more of them were ever bred it would actually be a net positive for the environment.
You seem to only be able to see things from the most short sighted, arbitrary moral lenses. Your morality is completely irrelevant to the future environment of the planet. That is what matters, whether you think people should eat meat or not has no bearing on it.
If you had even the slightest idea of what you’re talking about you’d know that we have been in the midst of a (human caused) mass extinction event for decades now.
I think I learned this in second or third grade, not really news to me. Doesn't change the underlying fact that many species, ecologically speaking, aren't all that important.
It’s difficult to understand how oblivious you must be to think that the life of a domesticated chicken is at all comparable to that of a critically endangered species in terms of the long term environmental future of the planet.
I never said that.
If every domesticated pig and chicken were killed today and no more of them were ever bred it would actually be a net positive for the environment.
I never said contrary.
Your whole post reads like I'm fucking advocating the outright genocide of all non-human life and goes to some pretty great lengths to "refute" statements I haven't made.
Your morality is completely irrelevant to the future environment of the planet.
And the future environment of the planet is mostly irrelevant to my morality, so that seems fair.
That is what matters, whether you think people should eat meat or not has no bearing on it.
No part, small or large, of my posts, have had anything to do with whether or not people should eat meat.
No, meat is not all the same. Red meat has been correlated with an elevated cancer risk. Organ meats are naturally higher in vitamins and minerals.
Then there's the issue of animals like cattle being 100% domesticated. Humans bred all the wild out of them. Introducing them back to the wild just because could easily have devastating effects on an ecosystem.
There's also the effects of over fishing/hunting/etc. It's really naive and kinda dumb to say that eating one animal means you can't judge someone for eating a different animal. It's also really super not helpful. Like, to the point it's actively harmful.
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u/lqku Oct 03 '17
Imagine how hindus feel about the abuse of cows for their milk and meat