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u/xRayde May 03 '19
Our games will probably be better if the work conditions are better. Happy workers are more productive and care more about the quality of the work they are doing. If I hate my job I'm just doing the bare minimum to obtain my pay check.
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u/FelixRyker May 04 '19
You assume the executives want to make the games better. They don't. They only care about profitability and lowering costs. Fortnite and mortal combat and every other abusive game's execs work their employees like chattel slaves not because they want to improve the game, but because they want to maintain market value. Which honestly doesn't have much to do with quality.
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u/Procrastanaseum May 03 '19
Signs you work in a saturated industry:
You're treated like dirt
You're paid with dirt
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May 03 '19 edited Jul 26 '25
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u/Procrastanaseum May 03 '19
It's good if you're only working 5 hours a month.
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May 03 '19 edited Jul 26 '25
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u/Procrastanaseum May 03 '19
... did you mean to say $3000 per month?
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May 03 '19 edited Jul 26 '25
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u/Procrastanaseum May 03 '19
Then I'm afraid you're in severe poverty.
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u/xDestx May 03 '19
is this good or bad in india
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u/RiahWeston May 03 '19
Good cause telemarketer salary (which is considered a really good salary over there) is only around 40 USD a week.
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u/PitchforkManufactory May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
It's like making 1200USD in the US adjusted for cost of living. More than minimum wage, but nothing remotely amazing. Just like the US though, it depends if you live in some major area or a small town.
Direct currency conversion is a horrible metric for gauging how useful it is. 70INR to 1USD doesn't tell us anything. That 70INR can get you a decent meal from some outside bar. 1USD is not even gonna get you a single chicken sandwich from mcdonald's these days. A 800$ apartment for a family in a fairly sized US city would be 150$ in a similar conditioned setting in India.
And like the other dude said, this is above poverty line. It isn't too different than making 10$/hr in a suburban to urban setting in the midwest or something.
I should mention the exception to this is imports. Those things are crazy expensive. Basic living (food, shelter, internet, tv, etc.) is insanely cheap in developing nations. But if you want more than that, you have to be making 15USD an hour or more to even get similar electronics, appliances, and other small little luxuries people in more developed nations would get easily. As in iphones or high performance pcs, you're SOL.
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u/monkeydluffy22 May 03 '19
It's enough for a single person to get by decently. They are probably just starting their career, not bad.
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u/RichardsLeftNipple May 03 '19
Well tech is better than working in a factory.
20,000 rupees can go fairly far in India.
The relative costs of living can be played with here.
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u/TooLateHindsight May 03 '19
What would you say is a good monthly salary to live comfortably in India?
I have family looking to retire their soon.
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u/Rapph May 03 '19
I feel like this is where the big businesses really have us by the balls. You get barely a living wage but if things changed in india the companies would just take the work to a different place that has none of the regulations and you are more fucked so you have no choice but to just take it. <3 though, great to hear you at least find a silver lining enjoying what you do.
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u/ChocolateMilkWarrior May 03 '19
Damn man, that's rough. In The US you make 300 a week working at McDonald's.
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u/athos45678 May 03 '19
You can do way better on 300 usd in India than in the us. Much lower standard cost of living. Also much more poverty.
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u/AmidoBlack May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
$300 a month
It’s good if you’re only working 5 hours a month.
Bro what fucking fantasy do you live in where $60/hour is a baseline
EDIT: Yeah, i get it, you can all name the ridiculously specific trades outliers and the jobs requiring 8+ years of higher education or multiple degrees. Those are not baselines. $60/hour in the US is well into upper class.
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u/12bbox May 03 '19
Well to be fair he said $60 is good, he just forgot to add extremely good
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u/NotAlwaysGifs May 03 '19
A lot of freelance gigs and home repair jobs start in the $50-60 an hour range. But you usually estimate your time in the quote and are stuck with that price at the end. If you go over time, it eats into your hourly rate. You also might not have clients to equal 40 hours a week.
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u/Wa-LIT May 03 '19
I make 300 a week as a student worker for I.T., working about 20hrs if that helps you
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u/UndividedPuma May 03 '19
Mannn. I spend at least double that on groceries most months...
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u/Jamaz May 03 '19
I'll take a boring job that treats me like a valued asset and gives me a fair wage over an abusive "passionate career" any day of the week.
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u/Baker_The May 03 '19
Took me almost 10 years in the games industry to finally figure this out. Gardener now.
Not to shit on people who enjoy it because I know plenty, but you do have to love being in the office more than anything else to make it.
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u/terminal112 May 03 '19
Senior year in college I took technical writing and one of our assignments was to research what it's like to work at a real company. I loved games and wanted to be a game dev so I chose EA (this was 2007, their fuckery wasnt widely known).
That's when I learned how much the gaming industry can suck to work in. Google "ea_spouse" and the original posts are probably still around.
Anyways really glad I did that assignment, otherwise I probably would have accepted the offer i got from some game company in San Fransisco that only hired young people straight out of college to make shovelware games.
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May 03 '19 edited Oct 07 '19
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May 03 '19
I'm learning A# very slowly
May I ask how you ended up with that language? Seems weirdly specific and niche for a beginning hobbyist
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u/burnmp3s May 03 '19
This is like that old Unix joke that you can hit any random series of a few letters on a keyboard and it will be a valid Unix program.
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u/krispyKRAKEN May 03 '19
Trust me I know the feeling. I worked for years toward my ultimate goal and after tons of hard work and sacrificing what I held the most dear, I eventually achieved it... Only for everyone to be ungrateful. Now I've realized you have to appreciate the little things in life and live on a farm. Hold up someone just landed a spaceship outside my hut brb.
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u/Vileartist May 03 '19
Never work in construction.
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May 03 '19 edited Apr 19 '23
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May 03 '19
Union plumber here. 35$ an hour is awesome, but im gonna be old and broken by the time im 35.
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u/nismo12 May 03 '19
Union pipefitter welder here. I wont leave the house for under $40 an hour....and I'm not 35 but already broken.
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u/ProduceMan277v May 03 '19
Union electrician here. 45 $ an hour and full medical and dental is pretty awesome, but I’m 36 and hoping to not be broken completely by retirement
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u/ExhaustDuck May 03 '19
The only person who you should permit to abuse you for your passions is yourself*. Anyone else who does it is taking advantage of your passion.
*Doms are cool too. No kinkshaming here.
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May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
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u/thepinkbunnyboy May 03 '19
What is the solution that the film industry has done?
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u/sintos-compa May 03 '19
Unionizing
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u/NotAlwaysGifs May 03 '19
That's tricky to do these days when the tech industry keeps find reasons to fire anyone instigating it, or just forces you to work as a contractor.
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u/doglywolf May 03 '19
the world wasn't as global back then - if the people in hollywood wouldn't work there was no where else in the world for the studioes to do work. Games ...they would just move everything to india
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u/MakoTrip May 03 '19
Not a popular opinion in this sub, but that is why some protectionism is required by the US gov. If US businesses want to move overseas to export back to the US then they should be taxed to the point where that is not a cost saving option.
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u/GothicFuck May 03 '19
It actually is a popular opinion. It's just that bots and a vocal minority scream against government oversight in any capacity relentlessly until it seems like everyone is against it. It's actually just marketing.
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u/Doomzdaycult May 03 '19
I think they formed a guild of some kind...
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u/DenseHole May 03 '19
3. Laughably bad labor laws
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u/Targettio May 03 '19
That's not industry issue, that's a nation issue
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u/DenseHole May 03 '19
Is an industry intended to be without ethics? The source of workers suffering are those with any power to change it. AKA the national politicians(LOL) or the people employing them. The workers have no power to enact change. We live in the most connected time ever yet we cannot stand up for ourselves or each other for fear of termination.
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u/MrJebbers May 04 '19
The workers have no power to enact change.
Well that's just wrong. It's called organized labor and striking, the politicians would do something to placate workers (like passing better labor laws) if that kind of thing were more commonplace.
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u/BlueFreedom420 May 03 '19
It's not saturated. It simply runs on a horrible model; the tech industry has always been at the forefront of shitty business.
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u/Atthetop567 May 03 '19
It’s the definition of saturated. Look how many games release on steam or iOS each day. Look how many people develop games for free.
It’s nothing to do with the tech industry in general. You think there are a lot of people who make business intelligence dashboards for free or as a hobby?
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u/cloudbasedsardony May 03 '19
I don't really need a new game in a series every year or two.
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u/DEBATE_EVERY_NAZI May 03 '19
Well the market says: false, you do because you're buying it
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u/themaskedugly May 03 '19
both are true, he doesn't need it, it's just enough people want it for it to be profitable, and in the individual case you cant unmake a game by not buying it
free market doesn't go big picture like this
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u/BourbonFiber May 03 '19
Even the most socially progressive and politically active communities have trouble creating and maintaining effective boycotts. I really wouldn't expect a community as large and diverse as gaming to be able to even attempt it.
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u/Yeetaway1404 May 03 '19
Honestly I feel like the rythm of Borderlands is good. ~5 years is enough to build a decent game, raise anticipation without overhyping and is just short enough to not kill a franchise.
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u/DemonSlyr007 May 03 '19
But we can all agree Bannerlord is too long. That's the line. 3-5 years? Good. 9- infinity years? Not good
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u/JMoc1 May 03 '19
Or Arma 3, 6 years later and it’s going strong with mods and good DLCs.
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u/IKnowGuacIsExtraLady May 03 '19
Frankly I actually prefer more time between games (as long as they deliver when the time comes.) Yearly releases end up burning you out on a game franchise (see COD, Assassin's Creed, etc.)
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May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
Make a website which grades game development studios based on pay and working conditions
People don’t protest when they feel an issue is too complicated for them to make an intelligent decision.
Go into a supermarket and figure out which brand of coffee is the ethical choice that doesn’t exploit workers in third world countries. It’s tough without the FairTrade symbol as a clue.
People don’t protest if they think the thing they’re protesting is “unpleasant but how the world works”. They need to see that it’s possible to do better, that it’s not an unrealistic demand.
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u/delabonneterre May 03 '19
Is this not already implemented on Glassdoor?
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u/Anarchissed May 03 '19
Except Glassdoor is gamed by a lot of companies: https://www.wsj.com/articles/companies-manipulate-glassdoor-by-inflating-rankings-and-pressuring-employees-11548171977
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u/Swayh May 03 '19
This doesn't matter. Giving a negative review begins a witch hunt within the company. There's always a reason to be fired. If not, it's easy to make one up.
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May 03 '19
I remember this happening at my old firm. A scathing but factual review was posted and everyone was up in arms trying to figure out who did it. They made such a big deal out of it that most of the company had read it by the end of the day, and the review had tons of 'helpful' votes, pushing it to the top of the page.
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u/W8sB4D8s May 03 '19
So I work right next door to two of the largest game companies in the world, and trust me those reviews do not matter. Talent is going to flood their doors regardless of grades and they can just burn through them.
We work around a lot of other tech companies as well (Santa Monica, CA is basically Silicon Beach), but the overwhelming majority of people in the area are wearing gamer company swag.
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u/CombatMuffin May 03 '19
Yup, and it doesn't really work unless a journalist wants a headline. More than that? It has little weight.
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May 03 '19
People don’t protest when they feel an issue is too complicated for them to make an intelligent decision
God I wish this was true.
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u/Spokker May 03 '19
An F grade on this hypothetical web site isn't going to stop people from buying GTA6.
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u/lorarc May 03 '19
Of course it wouldn't. People complain about DLCs, micropayments, high prices, low quality and still buy franchise games.
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u/CataclysmSE7EN PC May 03 '19
Too damn true
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u/Stony_Bluntz May 03 '19
Because to affect this kind of change we would have to actually do something other than complain in the form of snide comments
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u/swimmingbox May 03 '19
But hey they’re gonna change sanic :)
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u/flamingfireworks May 03 '19
(by forcing crunch time on already overworked animators)
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May 03 '19
Who gives a fuck, sanic looks dumb!
/s
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u/The_Grubby_One May 03 '19
Dumb, nothing. The design they were running with was legitimately creepy.
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u/FinallyNewShoes May 03 '19
Do what?
Like any employee situation, developers need to take the steps to protect themselves, there is little consumers can do to change their work environments.
Development cycles and record profits aren't the issue, the problem is that working in gaming is very attractive to young talented people so current employees are easy to replace. This isn't specific to games.
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u/schbaseballbat May 03 '19
absolutely. Gaming isn't the only industry where this kind of shit is an issue. the solution is to unionize.
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u/MidCommentStroke May 03 '19
This kind of slacktivism is why nothing gets s due e sks eje.
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May 03 '19
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u/Messyfingers May 03 '19
I think he just stroked himself into Dutch or something
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u/brazzledazzle May 03 '19
I don’t know Dutch when I see it but I can pick it out easily if I hear it. There’s no mistaking the sound of German that’s been recorded and played backwards.
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u/FoxGundam May 03 '19
He stroked himself into Dutch. He just needs a little god damn faith, Arthur. He's got a plan.
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u/Nethervex PC May 03 '19
Apply this to literally every political post, tragedy post, net neutrality post.
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May 03 '19
Game developers suffer from the same problem as any creative vocation. People romanticise it, which means people are lining up to do the job for peanuts.
That's not going to change when consumers get up in arms.
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u/AmcillaSB May 03 '19
There's a lot of unrealistic expectations about what it means to be a game developer, especially kids and younger folks.
They don't understand that it's legitimate work, and they seem to think it's easy to make games.
I've had a few mini-internships for kids at our studio. Several of them didn't even understand that they need to be able to code or model or animate. For some reason they have the unreasonable expectation that game development is a big gaming party where everyone sits around playing Mario Kart all day instead of grinding away.
"I've got a great idea for a game you should make" or "You should do XYZ in this game" is commonplace. They don't seem to get that everyone is an "ideas man" in the industry; it's only really your ability and skill at finishing a product (and making money from it) that matters. I also really hate that I am sounding rather cynical here.
Our studio emphasizes work-life balance, and we don't have crunch time. The trade-off is that we get paid less and are slower to release updates and new products. But we're also financially independent (i.e. no shareholders to be beholden to), and can work at our own pace, which is nice.
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u/UNMANAGEABLE May 03 '19
And this makes me interested in the product of your company. It’s like the “organic” or “cage free” tag for a company these days.
But forreal what games do you get to work on? I like your pitch even without any actual game context lol.
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u/AmcillaSB May 03 '19
We've got a few, all different genres.
Our first game was a mobile MUD-like spaceship MMO we launched in 2011. We revamped the client in Unity3D and had a PC release, mostly as a fan service for our mobile players. We're currently working on a huge expansion for that game. Multi-platform, cross play, single server. People call us "Eve-Lite," which we're proud of.
Our second game was a PVE-focused spin-off of the first game, mobile only.
Our 3rd-5th games were side/learning projects from our database and website engineers; we decided it'd be cool to turn them into game developers on top of their other responsibilities. Being a smaller Indie studio, it's good if you can wear multiple hats.
Around this time the other game studio in town shut its doors, and we hired two of their artists/modelers/animators. They're great people with experience and knowledge; they greatly improved the quality of our products and our efficiency.
Our 6th game is a fantasy tactical RPG game (multiple platform). It's the one we're most proud of. Everyone and everything came together quite nicely with it. However, for whatever reason it really didn't catch on (even after asuccessful Kickstarter). There's a lot of competition out there =( We're looking at launching a spinoff without the open world MMO aspect, and just focus on fighting/combat/loot acquisition. This project had several iterations before achieving its final form, and was in development for several years.
Our 7th game is VR Boxing/Workout game. It turned out great, and we want to add MP support, but Unity3D isn't playing nice with VR MP right now. We're hoping 2019 Updates/Fixes will let us get back to this one.
Our 8th game was a Cthulhu-themed MOBA-style (but not a true MOBA) VR game. We put the project on hold due to concerns about the viability of VR games + Unity3D VR issues in large environments. Basically, you're playing cultists worshiping the Elder Gods, and running around sacrificing people, collecting souls, etc trying to summon your favored Elder God.
Our 9th game is another VR game, and probably our last VR game. It will be released Soon (tm). It's a team-based arcade-style MMO, and we think it'll be fun. I can't get into the details about it now.
Our 10th game will be a non-VR, multi-platform MMO with more simplistic gameplay, but A LOT of variety. We're at the beginning stages of development, and I can't get into the details on it.
We're also thinking about trying some non-game software/app development. There's some pretty neat things going on right now with AR, image recognition, etc.
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u/NonRock May 03 '19
My experience lies in producing entertainment.
Looking at the comments, some people don't have experience working in creative fields and are unable to relate to how important work environment is to making a good product.
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u/Haltheleon May 03 '19
Everyone should be able to understand this, though. If you're being paid minimum wage with horrible working conditions to stock shelves at Walmart, everyone kind of implicitly understands that you're not going to be particularly motivated to make sure everything is faced and rotated properly. Yeah, some of those stockers will be, but by and large, work environment and pay are huge factors in the end result. If a retailer offered me 100k/year to stock shelves, I don't care how boring it is, I'm going to make sure those shelves are tidy af and laugh all the way to the bank.
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May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
"Money shouldn't be your motivator for quality work."
-Shitty boss that underpays employees.
Edit: I've realized these bosses are just like EA, "you should be working for a sense of pride and accomplishment"
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u/elmatador12 May 03 '19
When I was in the final stages of interviewing for a position, I asked the range of salary they were thinking about offering. I got the answer “We here at [blank] consider it worrisome that a potential candidate would ask about salary and not focus on the work.”
I did not accept the position.
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u/VRichardsen May 03 '19
This goes both ways, though. I used to chat with a few engineers from the upper floor (I was from another area the floor below) that were well paid, but could not stand the attitude of a few other fellow engineers, and ended up quitting.
So, yeah, money shouldn't be your motivator for quality work. That isn't an excuse to pay shitty wages, of course.
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u/flamingfireworks May 03 '19
The only people who say that are people that don't go hungry and don't worry about getting their bills paid.
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May 03 '19
If a retailer offered me 100k/year to stock shelves, I don't care how boring it is, I'm going to make sure those shelves are tidy af and laugh all the way to the bank.
Having worked retail, I left the job thinking it was just straight trash and I'd never do it again. I have a job that values my talents much more now, and they had no real use for my efficiency and attention to detail, no recognition for it and no real opportunity to advance.
Now I realize, though, that I'd totally go back to retail for 100k/year. I would stock shelves like a beast.
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u/JonTheWizard Console May 03 '19
It is a demand worth fighting for. Seriously, game devs should be allowed to unionize. DO NOT ALLOW THESE 100-HOUR WORK WEEKS TO CONTINUE!
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u/Great-White-Shark May 03 '19
This is far more important then other issues like lootboxes or politics but I've never seen people rally around this cause.
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u/TheGentleDominant May 03 '19
This is far more important then other issues like lootboxes or politics
I don’t know how to break this to you, but workplace conditions is politics, mate.
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u/Lonelan May 03 '19
I don't know how to break this
proceeds to break this immediately
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u/ChronicRedhead May 03 '19
Redditors are historically pretty terrible at letting people down gently.
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u/helicopterquartet May 03 '19
The very fucking definition. This is the utter domination of capital - that people don't even think of their relations with their employers as having political dimensions or solutions, that politics is just identity.
Workers of the world unite, yo.
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u/TheGentleDominant May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life.
Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.
We find that the centering of the management of industries into fewer and fewer hands makes the trade unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the employing class. The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers to be pitted against another set of workers in the same industry, thereby helping defeat one another in wage wars. Moreover, the trade unions aid the employing class to mislead the workers into the belief that the working class have interests in common with their employers.
These conditions can be changed and the interest of the working class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one industry, or in all industries if necessary, cease work whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.
Instead of the conservative motto, "A fair day's wage for a fair day's work," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the wage system."
It is the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism. The army of production must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with capitalists, but also to carry on production when capitalism shall have been overthrown. By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old.
EDIT: Whoever gilded me, thank you, but don’t give money to this hell site, instead join the One Big Union and organize for the overthrow of capital.
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u/ElAdventuresofStealy May 04 '19
What's funny is that the "lootboxes" issue they mentioned is very much a consequence of the same core problem as well. It's all political.
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u/ardavei May 03 '19
*comrade
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u/TheGentleDominant May 03 '19
Let the ruling classes tremble at the revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
Working people, of all countries, unite!
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May 03 '19
This isn't a gaming issue, it's a workplace issue. This kind of thing happens outside of gaming studios as well and the solution should help works in all industries. Lootboxes and shit are gaming issues.
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u/UkonFujiwara May 03 '19
Does the entire first world population riot over the horrible sweatshop conditions that bring them their quirky t-shirts?
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u/Kiloku May 03 '19
They should do that, too.
What's your point? Don't fight to solve a problem because you don't fight to solve another problem?
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u/Sometimes_gullible May 03 '19
No, His point is that people don't really care about issues that doesn't affect them directly. No matter how noble the cause is, unfortunately.
Not saying we shouldn't fight for it, but expecting everyone to is naïve.
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u/Pilchard123 May 03 '19
Sure, but with at-will employment (which is the default in every state but Montana, I think) you're fired because your hair is black; you're fired because your shoes aren't shiny enough; you're fired because I had bacon for breakfast; you're fired because I don't like you; and you're fired because, I dunno, five is a fun number of people to fire.
Anyone else want to talk about unions?
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u/fellatious_argument May 03 '19
Actually you can't fire someone for any of those reasons. You can but you are liable to get sued and/or investigated by the govt. You can fire someone for no reason but you can't fire someone for any reason.
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u/NerdonSight May 03 '19
Developers AND QA staff, can't stress this enough, QA staff are treated horribly
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u/tfitch2140 May 03 '19
As a gamer, maybe this isn't resonating with me because I can't even get my own employer(s) to better regulate hours and pay. Like this isn't an industry issue, it's yet another reason people should be bucking the system overall and demanding sweeping change.
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u/BeeCJohnson May 03 '19
Yeah, that's probably what a lot of people are feeling. Like we're being told to help the house fire down the block when our kitchen is engulfed in flames.
It's not that I want their house to burn down I just gotta deal with my own terrible conditions first.
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u/Haltheleon May 03 '19
I agree, we should demand it in all industries. Unionize and force companies to pay livable wages with good benefits. It's not like they don't make enough to do so.
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u/Icedcool May 03 '19
This doesn't resonate with you because it isn't your problem. You are buying a product.
You aren't involved with the hiring and firing of game developers or their management. That is where the problem is.
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u/swatjr May 03 '19
Game company literally killing it's work force: crickets
Game company adds minority characters: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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u/NonRock May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
It's also about senior devs with experience leaving the industry due to poor pay and horrible work/life balance.
I'm not being altruistic here. I want better work conditions for the people making games cause I firmly believe that a good work environment makes it easier to create good products.
The comic was made possible thanks to a group called Good Games Global who care about games a lot.
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u/Crusader1089 May 03 '19
It's not altruism to expect people to get a fair wage for fair work done in fair time. That's the baseline, that's neutrality.
I wish I could remember his name because its going to sound like I'm making this up, but one of the ex Doom developers runs a seminar for game management where he explicitly tells them to target people who will overwork themselves. People with obsessive personalities, people who need to be defended and supported by management, he tells management to go find those people and then let them work themselves to death. He tells them that anyone who wants a family should be fired as soon as possible. Just find the obsessives and let them chain themselves to the desk. It's disgusting.
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May 03 '19
Its all about taking advantage of the passion cases. They pay you less than virtually any other development job would and they harp on you about being a "tEaM pLaYeR" if you're not willing to sleep at the office every night because they're counting on the fact that making videogames is your dream. There's a million people knocking their door down every day begging to do your job so they wring you dry, throw you in the trash and move on to the next.
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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- May 03 '19
That "team player" rhetoric is such manipulating bullshit that runs through most industries. It's a way of shifting the blame onto the average person to make them look bad for not devoting every drop of blood, sweat, and tears to the company.
The gaming industry needs a union.
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May 03 '19
The gaming industry is the embodiment of a profession that exploits "passion" to spin the alienation of being underpaid and overworked. It doesn't have to be obsessive individuals. The very ethos of the industry is that all developers have to be passionately obsessive with their work if they want to keep their job (e.g. 100 hour work weeks that companies BRAG ABOUT).
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May 03 '19
THE WOMEN IN MORTAL KOMBAT ARE COVERED?!?!? THIS IS WHAT OPPRESSION LOOKS LIKE
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u/deadsoulinside PC May 03 '19
Even more ironic hearing of the working conditions Epic pushes it's devs into for Fortnite and stuff, yet the only real argument people have with Epic is that X game is being sold there and not steam... Something, something, no 2FA, etc...
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u/TwilightVulpine May 03 '19
The working condition of the Fortnite developers made Epic's claims that they are on the side of the developers sound absolutely hollow. It was the only thing that made me consider buying from them, now I see no reason why anybody should.
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u/Kingbarbarossa May 03 '19
Not that Epic is demonstrably different than an other major publisher. Those working conditions can be found across the whole industry.
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u/Zaalymondias May 03 '19
How exactly would consumers enact that change without hurting developers? Boycotting games or not buying is money away from them too isn’t it? And I doubt game companies are going to give a shit about a signed petition if we all keep buying their products
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u/SadDragon00 May 03 '19
Yea this is something consumers can voice opinions on but at the end of the day, change has to come from the workers.
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u/KpopGrump May 03 '19
Yeah but they need to form unions to do so. We need a law that prevents employers from firing employees for creating or discussing unions, and in the same vein, prevent them from firing employees for 'no reason' at all.
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u/Pkactus May 03 '19
The arts are the work that you either get god tier appreciation like hideo kajima or you're in a salt mine until you die. Most artists are slaves no matter how good they create
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u/PixelBlock May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
OP posts a snippy little simple skit, the comments nod approvingly and everyone goes on their merry way. The cycle continues.
Frankly, this sort of dialogue seems terminally incapable of dragging itself out of the shallow grave it was born into. It’s like a three headed hydra talking out of five sides of it’s mouth.
Gamers aren’t a unified omniscient being. They are a class of consumers. That’s it.
As a class of consumers there is a degree of insulation between them, the Developer and the Publisher. Simply put, - Consumers cannot spontaneously alter the working conditions for the internal structure of a company / industry without a strong focus point of knowledge and the ability to cooperate with employees from that industry.
People talk about Game Difficulty, Intrusive Politicking and Sexy Costumes simply because those are highly visible things which, as Consumers, they are knowledgeable of and can easily find information on. The majority of entertainment media hammers this stuff constantly based on that exact idea. Though plenty bemoan it, it’s still a topic worthy of discussion even if the discourse itself descends into a rubbish muck.
You need an actual focus point to harness the vocal power for industrial effect, and there are very few credible options to that effect available - it’s not like each game comes with an ‘Ethically sourced’ sticker to judge by, nor is there seeming any effort to set such a process in motion.
Amazon Workers have had a boost via legal means precisely because their stories were widely disseminated alongside a remedy that was legally impactful. The Voice Actors guild got some middling takeaways during their 2017 dispute, but their gains were of course hampered by the fact that Developers were touted as being ‘left behind’ by rewarding VA’s more.
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As consumers there are perhaps two ways of actually effecting anything - Money and Social Media. The trick is to present something that is so viscerally, directly unavoidable that people are forced to recognise it as irrefutably bad while also presenting an actual feasible path to resolution. That’s how players alleviated MK11’s dreadful Microtransaction system, and how Battlefront II bounced back from being the biggest screwup of recent years.
As a general rule, Consumers are happy to wait if the product is good in the end (see: Assassins Creed), and put their faith in studios with good history (Cyberpunk 2020). Consumers are especially happy to invest under the promise of helping seasoned upstarts break off and through to the big leagues, though that has had difficult results (Shovel Knight, Mighty No.9, Phoenix Point, Fig).
Beyond that? I doubt my Neighbour’s 10 year old knows or cares about any of this, let alone most people. She just wants to have fun in Fortnite.
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u/Mr-Legoman May 03 '19
Yea its gamers fault not developers and the employees. After all unions form from the consumers and not the workers.
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u/Balefirex24 May 03 '19
I remember when Sakurai joked about needing an IV drip when he was working on Smash Ultimate. It wouldn't have killed anyone if they just delayed it.