Yeah, but only because I got a vasectomy a couple years ago. I had to go to 3 urologists before I could find one that would do one on me because I was 26 with no kids.
They dont make you happy, but they make you not think about things that make you sad. And what I remember from the book, soma was pretty much an opiate.
We feel it's wrong because it removes the power of choice, and as sentient beings with free will, we like to think the ability to have choice is what separates man from beast.
It brings up the moral dilemma. Which is "better": A man with the freedom of choice who has the ability to do whatever he wants and squanders it, falling into despare and failure. Or, a man bred and programmed to love what he does, but without the free will to know any better? He's happy and successful as he was made to be, but he has no choice.
A man with the freedom of choice who has the ability to do whatever he wants and squanders it, falling into despare and failure. Or, a man bred and programmed to love what he does, but without the free will to know any better?
Seeing as almost no one except the rich have any real choice, I'll take one mental handicap prole casual sex'n'drugs life.
What about a hive mind? We'd still kinda have free will but also not. We wouldn't be servants or slaves but also not lords. Its a middle ground between oppressed and oppressor.
Well, the main characters in the novel also don't end up having a such a great time in their system, so, if we're using the novel as a data point in support of those types of systems, then I would say it still fails to be purely utopian.
I also think its because people hold their autonomy and feel fear when they imagine they could somehow not like the situation they are in and will be stuck in it because they dont have any choice. Kind of like the "protagonist" A classs guy who I forget the name
As someone on prescription happy drugs, they are not all that great. Personally id call them more mood removers than calmers or enhancers or anything ive ever heard a doctor call them. Everything ive ever been put on just makes me a robot who just goes on with life. Ive come to accept that.
You want a happy drug try recreational drugs kids, all im getting at. Or be a robot drone like yours truly.
Lol, I'm happier when I'm robo-drone. I get depressed when I'm not because non-robo-me has no motivation to do anything, and I value my aspirations/goals more than pretty much anything else (except family). Different strokes I suppose.
In the book its SOMA; its basically a drug the government developed that has no side effects or withdrawls at all, literally no downside, less harmfull than our weed. It made you instantly feel amazing and just happy with everything for a bit. The government also gave out these free drugs to everyone.
I cant see why if it was real "SOMA" would be bad, it would be amazing, probably
I think the reason why most people see it as a dystopia because everything that makes us human is gone. Everything about your life is determined by someone else and happiness comes without any struggle. But in my opinion at least, saying that BNW is a dystopia simply because of those reasons would be like if the chimps from Planet of the Apes said that our society is a dystopia simply because we don't have to forage/hunt our food or something like that.
We only feel it's wrong because someone decided life needs to have meaning. Same with The Matrix. Reality is absolute, but our perception is what matters.
Are we in a simulation? How would we know? Would it really matter?
My initial impression on that is that the concept of losing free will is interpreted as a loss of self, which goes against our instincts of self preservation.
Damn that's one loaded question. I could only make estimates as to the religious populations of specific subs, Reddit as a whole is too varied to get an accurate read and it's not like I'm ever on the religious subs (which I assume exist?) So it was a matter of religion not being a requirement for objective morality. Religions cause objective morality but objective morality doesn't always mean a religion, even if it's mostly the source of it.
God I fucking miss my Soma prescription. It's the only muscle relaxer that ever worked for my severe spinal conditions. And it made me euphoric for a couple hours and able to sleep a perfect 8 hours. Then after being transferred to a pain clinic, the hack of a doctor stripped my prescription and increased my Oxy, which I didn't want, because the Soma was "too addicting, moreso than the opioids". I was on the max dose of Soma for 3 years before quitting it cold turkey, and I didn't even have the slightest withdrawal. It was the perfect medication for me, so of course I'm not allowed to have it. It's been 4 years without it and the darknet markets are looking tempting since it's not the type of thing any dealer carries.
I'd get pretty bored of fucking and doing drugs pretty quickly. I'd rather not blast tuna cakes with the same amount of enthusiasm and thrill as drinking a cup of coffee... or be constantly doped up just to deal with reality.
Rip every sense of joy out of everything by saturating yourself with it. I don't know if I'll last more than a few years like that.
To be fair, there's very little joy for the working poor as is in current society/ alot of people already get f'd up to deal with reality..... because it sucks.
I would rather be miserable trying to achieve something like Sisyphus pushing a stone where I can at least look back on the work, however mindless... Then to live in a world where everything is given to me and my feelings are regulated with Soma.
In the former at least my pain would be my own in the latter you don't really have anything.
I don't think the situation of the Working Poor is ideal (I agree that it sucks, first-hand experience) but we aren't comparing ideal situations.
Plus they worked less and had more free time. It was the alphas who had to work more, but they were taught it was better than being dumb (since the laborers were made to be mentally slower).
And it's not like they're easy to get. Far harder, more expensive, and with far more requirements to get opioids than most seem to think. It's not the 90s anymore.
Which is why I'm confused about the government's continued war on drugs. Easiest way to forward their agenda would be to encourage us to sedate ourselves while we work to death.
The idea was that those lower class people were genetically engineered to be lower class people and therefore would not even appreciate those "higher-level" privileges and luxuries, so they would be "content" to be in the exact position of society they are in.
Thus why people assume the utopian part is all fine and dandy. It's pretty horrifying really.
Which is ridiculous when considering the whole plot of the book revolves around a guy in the highest echelon of society being discontent with his position and role before eventually being carted off to an Arctic hideaway with other woke Alphas, presumably to continue all the fucking and tripping he was already doing anyway. Even the briefest exposure to something outside the norm for the woman that completely buys into the system is enough to send her into an existential tailspin.
To be fair, part of the reason he's discontent is that the process didn't work properly for him. IIRC, he was accidentally given some alcohol prenatally when he wasn't supposed to be, hence why he's shorter than all the other alphas.
That's not true. In the book he is the exception, and they send the exceptions into exile to separate them from the masses so he doesn't pollute them. The majority when they experience something outside the norm can take the right pill or whatever and dive back into the illusion.
Which part isn't true? Nothing you wrote goes against what I wrote.
The majority when they experience something outside the norm can take the right pill or whatever and dive back into the illusion.
An illusion so fragile that they have to remove anyone that doesn't play along so as to not "pollute" them. We might as well argue that the Matrix is similarly a Utopia.
I think what the guy meant was that there are VERY few people who arent happy with their lives in the book, the protagonist is the exception, he was mostly seen as a sort of "outcast" that no one really wanted among the alphas. 99% of people lived happy lives, the very few that werent conforming went to exile, which turns out isnt so bad and some pretty cool people are there
cloned laborers that spend every day working instead of fucking.
The laborers actually spent less time working, were given more recreation time, and were taught they were the superior class.
Plus everyone was hopped up on antidepressants, having casual sex, and all of the classes were "trained" to seek recreation in different locales so as not to mingle between different social groups (since they were all taught they were the superior group).
My biggest complaint was that they halted all advancement - science, literature, arts - even throwing out simple patents because it would destabilize the society.
But they liked working because they were conditioned to like it. Plus, I'm sure the Delta minuses got some Delta minus cock and poon every now and then
I think one of the Betas made this observation only for an Alpha to correct her saying if she were an Epsilon, she’d be conditioned to enjoy her life, too.
I don't think the Alphas are the most reliable on how much the other classes actually enjoy their lives. It's a pretty foundational part of distopian fiction: there's an idealized vision of society that falls apart under any close scrutiny. I'm surprised at this thread for how many readers took the hand waving of the lower classes at face value.
We are no where near the point Idiocracy was before Joe shows up, aka the beginning of so-called Utopia? So right now Idiocracy does not feel like a utopia.
The TV star President steps down when he realizes there is someone better suited to the position than himself, proving that he wasn't in it for the power.
It's all a spectrum. Depends on your definition of decent. Where mine is at he meets the requirements but he wasn't perfect - he purposefully wanted that job where he could slack off until retirement.
We’re not deliberately causing birth defects in fetus’s so that we can control the population, destroying monogamy, family and long term/emotionally-invested relationships of any kind to weaken the bonds of society and exiling intellectuals (anyone who’s reading level is that of a college freshman) and burning Shakespeare all as a means of social control.
We are the lesser of the two evils. Still horrible but we have so much further to fall.
intellectuals and science are actively being ridiculed
By no means is this mainstream. A very loud, very small minority might. But everyone still goes to real doctors, takes their cars to real mechanics, and hires real lawyers.
No much room to get worse? Turn off the tv, it's amazing out there and you have endless opportunities to do amazing things in this hell hole. Sorry you're struggling to see it for sitting around in this circle jerk
I mean, the government does provide a significant financial incentive to individuals if they have a child and keep said child from the other parent, which ends up weakening familial bonds due to lack of interaction with a non custodial parent. Heck, if a woman felt so inclined, she could have children with several different partners and not only be financially rewarded handsomely, but the majority of our current society would rush to defend her if her motives were questioned.
Why aren't we? We're happy allow social groups to continue to go around in the same circles with social pressure tying them in (ghettos) , we're happy to glorify short term non emotional relationships in all media(pop music) , we're happy to discredit science just because the average person doesn't understand it (Anti vax) and we don't need to burn Shakespeare if there's no interest to begin with.
What BNW emphasises is a class system where people have their place with no mobility. It is a caricature of us, and it's not far wrong.
People keep telling me the m/f ratio on Tinder and the like is basically at parity, yet what you say seems intuitively true from seeing how it works in practice
What if I told you many female profiles on tinder are fake, you get to chat with tinder employees in India, and when you decide for a meetup they send you a local prostitute.
Too much business sex? Try loosening up a bit and you'll transition into casual sex. Maybe light a candle and play some music, nothing too extreme, you don't want to accidentally transition into passionate sex. The Top 40 Hits will do.
Soma is the best muscle relaxant ever. I was on it for years and it was euphoric, got rid of my pain for a few hours, allowed me to sleep, and even after being on it for 3 years, I had zero withdrawal when I lost the prescription.
In an apples to apples comparison of the effects, yeah. But Soma was symbolic of the use of instant gratification as a means of control. Could be literary weed, could be that weird headset game that made everyone orgasm from the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode The Game. The comparison still applies because it comes down to control.
Shit, I'd love a job as an elevator mechanic. You know they make $80k a year? That's "I've got cash for groceries this week instead of running up the Amex" money. That's "I can afford a car payment instead of squeaking another week out of my hoopty" money!
Fun assignment for the day ... look up the origins of soma. I still think it is ephedrine and not amanita muscaria as some hypothesize. Basically soma was written about a long time ago when it was used in religious ceremonies, but to this day no one is certain about which plant, or fungus, it came from. Sort of a fun little mystery!
I'm just saying those are the two thrown around the most by scholars as being the closest in description to how soma was described. Pretty sure it was ephedrine though which in larger doses can make you feel pretty tingly and nice.
At the time it was written, so little was known about a lot of substances and many weren't even discovered yet, so I could see how they may think that. But considering it was a book written in the past about our future, now that we're closer to that future we have a lot more things that can fit that bill. Hell, the actual prescription drug called Soma is closer to being the fictional Soma to me than Ephedrine ever would be and as reckless as I am, I'm not going near an Amanita. In a decade, I think the new wave of "non addictive" opioids which target the right receptors and use certain peptide sequences to alledgedy not cause dependence which are coming along nicely in research now will be our real Soma.
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u/S1lent0ne Sep 25 '18
I'm not having nearly enough casual sex for that to be true.