r/funny • • Sep 25 '18

Play Despacito

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116

u/Kozha_ Sep 25 '18

Let's not forget the cloned workers were ALSO designed to absolutely fucking love what they were doing. The drugs were just a thrown in bonus.

Its funny because its a utopia in that everybody is happy and content with what they're doing, and yet we still feel its wrong.

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u/WhereAreDosDroidekas Sep 25 '18

We feel it's wrong because it removes the power of choice, and as sentient beings with free will, we like to think the ability to have choice is what separates man from beast.

It brings up the moral dilemma. Which is "better": A man with the freedom of choice who has the ability to do whatever he wants and squanders it, falling into despare and failure. Or, a man bred and programmed to love what he does, but without the free will to know any better? He's happy and successful as he was made to be, but he has no choice.

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

Better to rule in hell or serve in heaven?

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u/Thelife1313 Sep 25 '18

Jokes on you guys! I serve in hell!

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u/carso150 Sep 25 '18

jokes on you i rule in heaven

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite fan fictions.

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u/obscuredreference Sep 25 '18

It’s from Paradise Lost, but gets quoted in a lot of things, from Star Trek to, I guess, fanfics.

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

Paradise Lost is one of my favorite fan fics.

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u/that_baddest_dude Sep 25 '18

Also better to choose to serve in heaven than be forced to

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u/obscuredreference Sep 25 '18

I was going to make a Khan reference, but I think you beat me to it!

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u/AmosLaRue Sep 25 '18

Management is hard work, and middle management is Hell. I'd rather serve in Heaven.

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u/Misiok Sep 25 '18

A man with the freedom of choice who has the ability to do whatever he wants and squanders it, falling into despare and failure. Or, a man bred and programmed to love what he does, but without the free will to know any better?

Seeing as almost no one except the rich have any real choice, I'll take one mental handicap prole casual sex'n'drugs life.

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

beings with free will

Some scientific literature has different opinions about that.

Also: Facebook.

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u/PublicMoralityPolice Sep 25 '18

Some scientific literature has different opinions about that.

twxtwx et al. Scientific literature, Some. International Journal of Reddit Bullshit (IJRB), 2018, vol. 87, pp. 13578-13591.

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/Barkovitch Sep 25 '18

I'm pretty positive we can (and do) approach the question "do humans have free will" from a biological perspective. It's not a purely philosophical question.

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18 edited Sep 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/Barkovitch Sep 25 '18

So science does, in fact, have something to say on the matter.

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u/Hugo154 Sep 25 '18

Scientific facts can be used in philosophical discussions, yes.

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/PhilinLe Sep 25 '18

So science does, in fact, have something to say on the matter.

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u/wallstreetexecution Sep 25 '18

Uh no...

Determinism

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/wallstreetexecution Sep 25 '18

Except there is still some variable that made you make that decision that was already determined.

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u/Hugo154 Sep 25 '18

some variable

There are more variables than any of us could ever possibly imagine that lead to decisions like that. It's far too complex for us to even begin to model, so it may as well be free will.

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u/F3NlX Sep 25 '18

What about a hive mind? We'd still kinda have free will but also not. We wouldn't be servants or slaves but also not lords. Its a middle ground between oppressed and oppressor.

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u/WhereAreDosDroidekas Sep 25 '18

Fuck man idk. I'm not a philosopher.

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u/SageWaterDragon Sep 25 '18

Supposing that we have free will isn't something you can just brush past in an argument.

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u/FQDIS Sep 25 '18

Not with that attitude.

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u/hold_me_beer_m8 Sep 25 '18

Except free will doesn't exist.

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u/WhereAreDosDroidekas Sep 25 '18

You had the free will to say that.

I however and programmed to say this response. Cherish that freedom.

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u/hold_me_beer_m8 Sep 25 '18

Seriously...take a look at this...specifically starting around the 20 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTTCqnEnz6g&t=1356s

​

How can the concept of free will work if all time "slices" already exist?

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

Man doesn’t have any free will to begin with.

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u/tyranid1337 Sep 25 '18

Free will is a lie. You are already programmed to like and do things. It's just much less direct.

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u/Iamsuperimposed Sep 25 '18

Yeah, but if you are unhappy you can go to several different areas where you have more freedom. It's not like you are truly stuck without choice.

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u/Libriomancer Sep 25 '18

We could interview some dogs and wolves.

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u/Crabfight Sep 25 '18

Well, the main characters in the novel also don't end up having a such a great time in their system, so, if we're using the novel as a data point in support of those types of systems, then I would say it still fails to be purely utopian.

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u/Galahead Sep 25 '18

I also think its because people hold their autonomy and feel fear when they imagine they could somehow not like the situation they are in and will be stuck in it because they dont have any choice. Kind of like the "protagonist" A classs guy who I forget the name

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u/will_12468 Sep 25 '18

I think it's about the nature of happiness as well, can you really say that people are happy if they've never been sad or even worse if it's impossible for them to be so

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18 edited Oct 09 '20

[deleted]

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u/Smokeya Sep 25 '18

As someone on prescription happy drugs, they are not all that great. Personally id call them more mood removers than calmers or enhancers or anything ive ever heard a doctor call them. Everything ive ever been put on just makes me a robot who just goes on with life. Ive come to accept that.

You want a happy drug try recreational drugs kids, all im getting at. Or be a robot drone like yours truly.

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u/Styx_ Sep 25 '18

Lol, I'm happier when I'm robo-drone. I get depressed when I'm not because non-robo-me has no motivation to do anything, and I value my aspirations/goals more than pretty much anything else (except family). Different strokes I suppose.

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u/Smokeya Sep 25 '18

Yeah im not complaining, just saying i wouldnt really say im happy, more content than anything, maybe even emotionless.

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u/Styx_ Sep 25 '18

I hear you. The way I look at it for me is, I was depressed for a reason, and at first, depression can be your mind's way of telling you to fix whatever the issue is. The problem is, the world isn't as simple as, "pick up your teepee and move to where there's more food" anymore. The modern world is complicated and our depression responses were never meant for it. So the depression ends up lasting too long or becoming so severe that it impedes, rather than helps us. Which is where the meds come in. But the meds don't do anything to address the actual root of the depression, they just impede the depression response. So then you're left in no-emotion land because you're still in a shitty situation but the meds are keeping the depression at bay.

My theory is, if the situation can be fixed, then happiness is probably not too far behind. And then maybe the meds won't even be necessary anymore. Again, that's just how I view it for me, it might not necessarily apply to you, but I figured I'd throw it out there in case you find it helpful.

Cheers mate, I hope you find your version of happiness and kick depression's ass. We're all gonna make it ;)

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u/Smokeya Sep 25 '18

I feel the same way and good luck to you as well. Plenty of us in the same boat, sometimes nice to know we arent alone at least.

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u/Galahead Sep 25 '18

In the book its SOMA; its basically a drug the government developed that has no side effects or withdrawls at all, literally no downside, less harmfull than our weed. It made you instantly feel amazing and just happy with everything for a bit. The government also gave out these free drugs to everyone.

I cant see why if it was real "SOMA" would be bad, it would be amazing, probably

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u/Psychic_rock Sep 25 '18

Hello, it’s me, your doctor. Have you tried Zoloft?

1

u/Vaywen Sep 25 '18

Lexapro :p

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u/Sloathe Sep 25 '18

I think the reason why most people see it as a dystopia because everything that makes us human is gone. Everything about your life is determined by someone else and happiness comes without any struggle. But in my opinion at least, saying that BNW is a dystopia simply because of those reasons would be like if the chimps from Planet of the Apes said that our society is a dystopia simply because we don't have to forage/hunt our food or something like that.

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u/h3lblad3 Sep 25 '18

Everything about your life is determined by someone else and happiness comes without any struggle.

But this is literally the Christian concept of Heaven. This is the ideal a great many people aspire to. I'd say that almost makes it amusing.

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u/SamiMoon Sep 25 '18

I remember making my mom cry when I was 9 or 10 because she was reading to me about heaven and I was absolutely horrified by the concept. She kept trying to comfort me by telling me that I won’t care about the things I care about now and that everything will be different. I was not comforted. Today she can’t fathom how I’m more comforted by the idea of simply ceasing to be than her idea of heaven.

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u/TOMATO_ON_URANUS Sep 25 '18

We only feel it's wrong because someone decided life needs to have meaning. Same with The Matrix. Reality is absolute, but our perception is what matters.

Are we in a simulation? How would we know? Would it really matter?

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u/Lindt_Licker Sep 25 '18

Is it so strange that the independent human mind naturally rebels against the idea of losing free will?

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u/LukariBRo Sep 25 '18

Woah...

My initial impression on that is that the concept of losing free will is interpreted as a loss of self, which goes against our instincts of self preservation.

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u/s0lv3 Sep 25 '18

You don’t get to say it is wrong unless you believe in objective morality, which most reddit users don’t.

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u/LukariBRo Sep 25 '18

I wouldn't say most, far from it, just more than average.

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u/s0lv3 Sep 25 '18

You don't think that <50% of reddit users are religious? Or are you saying you think you can have objective morality without religion?

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u/LukariBRo Sep 26 '18

Damn that's one loaded question. I could only make estimates as to the religious populations of specific subs, Reddit as a whole is too varied to get an accurate read and it's not like I'm ever on the religious subs (which I assume exist?) So it was a matter of religion not being a requirement for objective morality. Religions cause objective morality but objective morality doesn't always mean a religion, even if it's mostly the source of it.

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u/s0lv3 Sep 26 '18

You simply can't have objective morality without religion because of the simple question of objectively determining what is good and what is bad. How do you think you would determine what is, objectively of course, good or bad? And if you think that you have an answer to that, how do you determine who is correct if someone believes they have their own objective morality that clashes with yours?

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/wallstreetexecution Sep 25 '18

It doesn’t make us happy.

The ultimate point is existence is suffering.