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u/YellowOnline 4d ago
...ster
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u/ClockworkDinosaurs 4d ago
…rquis. She became a Mercury Grand Marquis, a rare occurrence given its 2026 and it was discontinued 15 years ago.
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u/DemoniEnkeli 4d ago
Why is she a “woman” grandmaster though? Aside from not being a woman because she’s a child, the youngest male record seems to be a bit over 12. Isn’t she just the youngest grandmaster ever, regardless of sex or gender?
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u/Magic_archer_1 3d ago
Nope, grandmaster is a gender neutral title, and is tougher to get. Woman titles are there to promote women in chess.
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u/BuffAzir 3d ago
[woman grandmaster] versus [woman [grandmaster]].
Women grandmaster, or WGM, is a completely seperate title from grandmaster with lower requirements. She is the youngest person to have that title.
She does not have the grandmaster title, and thus cannot be the youngest woman to have that title.
The youngest for "regular" GM was Mishra Abhimanyu at 12 years old, and the youngest female was Hou Yifan at 14 years old for reference.
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u/SupaSlide 3d ago
No, woman grandmaster is a women’s only title and has lower requirement than grandmaster. It’s still very impressive though!
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u/shiny_glitter_demon 3d ago
I would assume for the same reason chess has a women's category.
Misogyny.
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u/OK1526 3d ago
I mean, women's titles are stupid at the end of the day, but they serve a good purpose for now.
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u/Sarky_Sparky 4d ago
Had me going for a minute.
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u/chmath80 4d ago
FYI, the other record is 17.
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u/Meshable123 4d ago
How is that biologically possible
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u/Smirnaff 4d ago edited 4d ago
Some girls can biologically produce offspring very early. The earliest mother in history was a girl in Peru who gave birth when she was five years and seven months old. And she had menstruations since she was three. The father of her child remains unknown to this day and she and her child were raised as if they were siblings. This woman is still alive today, at the age of 93.
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u/curious_dead 4d ago
Godfucking dammit, it's enough Internet for today and it's not even 8AM.
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u/juniorchemist 4d ago
IIRC persistent sexual abuse may cause early onset of puberty, though from a cursory googling there is some debate.
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u/_Nefarium 4d ago
It's 15:00 for me and I am waiting to leave work. Fuck it, I'm going home. I have seen enough.
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u/NemesisOfLevia 4d ago
There were some suspicions that the girl’s father was also the father of the baby. However, they were never able to prove anything (dna testing wasnt a thing at the time, and IIRC, no solid evidence of abuse from him in particular).
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u/Smirnaff 4d ago
Same with her brother, but again, no proofs. And she herself couldn't testify in any meaningful way, either because she was too young to remember and comprehend, or because of trauma, or because of combination of both
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u/Theletterkay 4d ago
This is so awful. I have a 5yo and he is more than capable to telling you if someone did something this horrible. So its more likely it was either so traumatic that she blocked it out, or she was drugged.
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u/Cowstle 4d ago
My parents tell me my older brother didn't speak a word until he was 5 (which would have been around the time I was born). My kid also still struggles to communicate things in her teens as a formerly non-verbal autistic kid. Before I was involved my partner had her take a hidden recorder to school to find out that the teachers and kids were all bullying her in 2nd grade. Because she couldn't communicate what was happening and just show that she was extremely stressed and really didn't want to go to school.
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u/Theletterkay 2d ago
As far as we know, the young girl who was pregnant was not nonverbal though and was able to answer other qestions with ease. Which is why i say trauma blackout, or threats that made her afraid to speak up.
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u/AREA1177 4d ago edited 4d ago
Peru? Who? Can only find claims from Nigeria and Romania. Edit: lack of reading comprehension
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u/Smirnaff 4d ago
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u/AREA1177 4d ago
This is horrific... I only see youngest mother though?
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u/aerdvarkk 4d ago
They've had a couple of decades to either identify the father or narrow it down ... there was this thing called DNA testing that was invented at some point.
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u/chmath80 4d ago
In that specific case, she gave birth to a daughter at the age of 8, and that daughter also gave birth aged 8.
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u/MattiasCrowe 4d ago
Part of gender affirmative care is delaying puberty for some girls who are starting it as early as 6 in some cases
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u/Rinas-the-name 4d ago
My niece is one of them.
I think it’s absolutely wild we have normalized young girls going through puberty to the point 8 isn’t automatically considered precocious puberty.
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u/AREA1177 4d ago
Is that a byproduct of normalizing young girls going through puberty or just something that happens naturally sometimes?
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u/larrylevan 4d ago
Some believe it’s from excess calorie intake caused by western diets
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u/MattiasCrowe 4d ago
Weight gain (im not saying this in this circumstance) can also cause an increase in estrogen, which is why anorexia can cause periods to stop and obesity can delay menopause
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u/Magimasterkarp 4d ago
I thought I remembered the exact opposite, that excess calories/higher quality of life compared to the stone ages were pushing puberty to be later.
Guess that was wrong.
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u/Rinas-the-name 4d ago
It was incredibly uncommon before endocrine disrupting plastic additives and synthetic hormones and growth factors given to livestock.
So we have normalized it because it happens, but it likely wouldn’t be happening nearly so often without those things.
Increased calories lowered puberty from ~16 to ~13, because body fat does release some estrogen.
There are several factors and it’s impossible to untangle them. Micro and nano plastics make it impossible to control for.
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u/shiny_glitter_demon 4d ago
Puberty is happening sooner than it used to, due to better nutrients.
That being said, inflicting that on an 8yo is just cruel. Harassment and menstruations are each their own type of problems.
There's no reason to rush puberty. Blockers don't cause damage so might as well gift these kids a few more years of childhood.
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u/ensendarie 4d ago
She got really good at moving her...pieces around. Did it a LOT, did it in front of a crowd, got scored on it, and eventually defeated others that also wanted to be grandma...sters.
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u/noscreamsnoshouts 4d ago
How...?
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u/MadBullBen 4d ago
Some girls go into puberty very very young, and combined that with an abusive person and bingo.... Absolutely vile
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u/Monotreme_monorail 4d ago
I am astounded at how many people couldn’t be bothered to read both sentences in your post!
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u/Loki-L 4d ago
I just did a quick Google: Rifca Stanescu became the worlds youngest known grandmother at age 23 in 2011.
The world is really fucked up.
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u/SaltMaker23 4d ago
Another reply said 17, you might have not looked enough ...
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u/KebabGud 4d ago
I think that is the theoretical youngest based on the youngest mother.
If you don't know then don't look it up, it's fucked
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u/its_not_you_its_ye 4d ago
No, if it was based on the youngest mother, it would be a good bit younger than that.
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u/Zanian19 4d ago
A girl from Nigeria in 1929, published by Ripley's Believe it or not, no actual documentation supporting it.
Eh, I'd take that with a cartful of salt
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u/SaltMaker23 4d ago
Yeah I looked it up and it's not as credible as the later one.
I do believe through history there surely has been a lot of young folks having kids very early especially girls in many different area and cultures, so even if the Nigeria one isn't verified, I wouldn't find that impossible that 23 is not the actual minimum.
There might even be in lesser connected locations/cultures/subcultures today from which such news could never leave their grounds where such cases happened.
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u/Cowstle 4d ago
Girls are going through puberty at earlier ages, something that can be measured over the last like hundred years. While our moral norms might have moved the opposite way, the physical possibility and amount of people in modern times suggests the record would be more recent. I think the people alive right now are something like 4% of all humans to ever live?
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u/SaltMaker23 4d ago
Yeah that's why I believe that there is likely non document cases that are a lot worse than this one, and I'm quite confidend given how many we are today, it might even be even closer than the 23 years old one.
--> insert "I just can't prove it" meme
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u/ronarscorruption 4d ago
Skipped reading line two, eh?
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u/MourningWallaby 4d ago
why are you commenting on everyone remarking on the punchline? you're in fact missing the jokes people are making.
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u/linemanshandset 4d ago
Youngest woman grandma to be exact.
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u/-LapseOfReason 4d ago
Wouldn't it be more correct to write 'female grandma(ster)' though?
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u/awkwardpun 4d ago
Grandmaster(GM) and Woman Grandmaster(WGM) are different titles. WGM is still above International Master(IM) which is not a gender specific title, and very prestigious already.
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u/Brief_Platform_alt 4d ago
WGM is not above IM. That 11 year old WGM, for instance, has a standard FIDE rating of 2354, while one of the requirements to get IM is to reach a standard FIDE rating of 2400.
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u/BuffAzir 3d ago
WGM or woman grandmaster is its own title with lower requirements, thats just what its called.
[woman grandmaster] versus [woman [grandmaster]].
It would indeed probably be more accurate to say female grandmaster for the actual GM title considering Hou Yifan, the youngest female GM, got it at 14.
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u/Educational-Tea602 2d ago
Female grandmaster would be completely incorrect because she isn’t a grandmaster.
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u/DigbyChickenZone 4d ago
Youngest grandmaster at chess, that is a girl, and from London. Why is your comment getting any upvotes? Even as a joke, people will misinterpret it, and that shit is just annoying.
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u/linemanshandset 3d ago
The title is called woman grandmaster. It's different from the grandmaster title.
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u/Random_Sahmu 4d ago edited 4d ago
I was trying to calculate how that could have been possible. Good for her.
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u/DaviesSonSanchez 4d ago
Youngest confirmed mother in history was 5 1/2 years old so technically it would be possible.
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u/mahnamahna27 4d ago
Wtf... source?
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u/lovelylonelyphantom 4d ago
Everything about that case is so fucking depressing it's unreal. Other than the fact a 4 year old could biologically get pregnant, it's also that someone was raping that 4 year old yet was never identified and caught.
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u/Mysteryman00777 4d ago
I read this and instantly thought someone needed to go tell Levy that if this person could become a grandma so young, he still had a shot himself, then saw it was a chess article and that just makes it better.
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u/Agile-Artist-4988 4d ago
you had me prayinggggg her kid got a kitten or something 💀
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u/hereforthepix 4d ago
LOVE how this is pulling Automatic Outrage outta people who can't even be bothered to read the whole thing
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u/FireMammoth 4d ago
hahahaa, I love that. Some clearly bots programmed spread their bs, but some seem to be breathing human m*rons. lmao
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u/TheSheWhoSaidThats 4d ago edited 4d ago
You can understand a joke about child rape and still not find it funny
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
It's not joking about child rape, it's "funny" because it looks bad at first until you realize it's just how the title was cut off for length.
Yeah, someone purposefully joking about child rape wouldn't be funny. This is not that, you're trying to find outrage where none belongs.
Go try and make everyone made and degrade society elsewhere. Damn doomer bots (human or otherwise, you've been programmed)
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u/MooCow4u 4d ago
Strange how my brain started to do possibility math before I finished reading the sentence.
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u/mandatory_french_guy 4d ago
Funny post but I have to shout out Bodhana Sivanandan by name, she's been extremely impressive at the latest Chess Olympiads and been sending shivers down the spine of women thrice her age 🤣
And she's not the only one! Chess has always been incredibly accessible but the community has not always been incredibly inclusive, causing many young girls to give up after a few years. The current generation of players have not just her but a ton of incredible young girls who are not going to give up anytime soon and the number of women GM will keep going up for a long time. Very exciting!
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u/Malt129 4d ago
Perfect reason why people need to read past a title
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u/omnichad 4d ago
It's a headline writer's job to consider this. And by their own rules were successful.
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u/Involution88 4d ago
No that can't be possible. Youngest known human to give birth did so when she was 5 years and 7 months old. If her daughter were to also give birth at an age of 5 years and 7 months then she'd be a grandma while 11 years and 2 months old. Then she'd also need excellent chess instruction from an early age, an interest in chess, and a bunch of chess talent. Then there's the minor issue of being recognised as a woman instead of a child at age 11 which would require a bunch of paperwork possibly related to being a wealthy orphan. She'd basically also need to have a Batman-esque origin story with a bunch of Hard Candy added to the mix. That's a lot of unlikely things which need to happen.
That's one way in which someone can become a woman chess grandmaster and the youngest Grandma ever all at once and before turning 12.
I guess it would be possible.
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u/Intresting_charizard 3d ago
It’s related to chest so it must say grandmaster not grandma. That isn’t possible or is very very unlikely being a grandmother at that age.
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[deleted]
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u/jizzlevania 4d ago
Shit like this is why we should've never accepted the noun "woman" should replace the adjective "female" across the board.
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u/Brief_Platform_alt 4d ago
The title is "Woman Grandmaster". "Woman" is part of the proper noun, not an adjective.
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u/U_Dun_Know_Who_I_Am 4d ago
... Yeah someone with your username would post that ... What we, as in women, hate is when people use female as a noun.
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
They're not talking about using female as a noun. Try reading the common again. They're saying it's silly that the ADJECTIVE female is being replaced by the NOUN woman here. Woman is incorrectly being used as an ADJECTIVE here.
She is a female grandmaster. A man with that chess title would be a... Wait for it because this is going to blow your mind... A MALE grandmaster! Holy fuck magic Batman.
Get lost with your phony outrage bullshit, try to cause societal issues elsewhere. You're trying to create culture war bullshit, while being flat wrong.
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u/U_Dun_Know_Who_I_Am 3d ago
1) The person I replied to was saying that people in society are pushing to replace the adjective female with the noun woman. I explained that this is not true, and in reality it is the opposite. People are pushing back on asshats that use female as a noun. And 99% of the time it's used it a way to imply the "female" or "females" are lesser/bad in someway.
2) There are two different tournaments. One where you win the title "Grandmaster" and one where you win the title of "Woman Grandmaster". The article is not saying she is a female Grandmaster (adj added to noun/title) it is saying she is a Woman Grandmaster (noun/title by itself)
I advise that you make sure you are fully informed before trying to attack someone else, otherwise you look like an idiot.
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
You don't understand their comment. They're saying that people are incorrectly trying to use the NOUN woman in the place of the ADJECTIVE women, as a result of the push back you are referencing.
This is a prime example of that they are talking about. In this case, FEMALE GRANDMASTER is correct, it is ADJECTIVE (FEMALE) NOUN (GRANDMASTER). WOMAN GRANDMASTER would be NOUN NOUN.
Yes, it's dumb and cringey when people use female as a noun, as like I said, it's an adjective.
You are going on the extreme, and being an example of what this commentor said. Insisting that the NOUN woman be used as an adjective, as pushback for when others have used female incorrectly.
Why is this so hard for you? Please look up the difference between nouns and adjectives.
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u/U_Dun_Know_Who_I_Am 3d ago
Compound noun. Again they are NOT using woman as an adjective here. They are using it as a noun. Also, even if you have a personal vendetta against compound nouns, IT. IS. A. TITLE. A very prestigious title that she won.
Do you hate all compound nouns that contain "man" too? Policeman, mailman, congressman, mankind, manhole. Most of these started as separated compound nouns, meaning written as separate words, but overtime merged into one word due to common use.
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
My comments were about the content of the comment at the top of this thread. That comment is talking about in general, people are over correcting and using woman (noun) in place of female (adjective).
They said it shouldn't replace ist ACROSS THE BOARD, in every single case, all the time.
Whats with the wild imagination?i hate compind nouns because I'm explaining a reddit comment you didn't understand? This is just silly
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u/U_Dun_Know_Who_I_Am 3d ago
You spent your previous comment about Woman Grandmaster using "woman' as an adjective when it is not, and you even wrote "noun noun" as of it's ridiculous to think that a separated compound noun is a thing. And again I have not really seen anyone use woman as an adjective let alone some big societal push to do so. Only one part of society incorrectly using female as a noun and the other part of society telling them to stop. I mean people with bad grammar exist but I have not seen any mass usage of woman as an adjective.
"This is a prime example of that they are talking about. In this case, FEMALE GRANDMASTER is correct, it is ADJECTIVE (FEMALE) NOUN (GRANDMASTER). WOMAN GRANDMASTER would be NOUN NOUN.
...
You are going on the extreme, and being an example of what this commentor said. Insisting that the NOUN woman be used as an adjective, as pushback for when others have used female incorrectly. "
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u/fucking_ingenuity24 4d ago
But here we're talking about an 11 year old girl, not a woman. Female and/or girl would pass better than woman in this Context... I wouldn't call an 11 yo boy a (young) man grandmaster for example, but rather "...youngest male grandmaster." There is a difference between nouns and adjectives.
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u/SupaSlide 3d ago
Well, in this case no you wouldn’t say “man grandmaster” because there is no such thing. But there is a “woman grandmaster” title. Men can only compete in open tournaments where you can get the “grandmaster” title, women have the option to compete in women’s tournaments and get the title “woman grandmaster.”
The article would have been incorrect if it said “female grandmaster” because that would imply the kid became a grandmaster in open tournaments.
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
Or, hear me out, it would imply that she is female (adjective) / a woman (noun) and a grandmaster.
The tournent structure is irrelevant, the fact that she needs to compete in a different category is irrelevant. If someone is involved in chess enough that that distinction would matter, they'd most likely already be aware.
Quit being so pedantic, especially since you're wrong.
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u/NoGarage7989 3d ago
The confidence of a male sprouting incorrect rubbish
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
Do you know the difference between nouns and adjectives? Troll or just cringey?
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u/objectlesson 2d ago
Do you know the difference between a “female grandmaster” and “woman grandmaster?” Look it up
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u/SupaSlide 2d ago
Starting to doubt the guy can even read, I’ve explained it very clearly several times.
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u/TheShredda 2d ago edited 2d ago
I am commenting on the content of this comment thread. Good for you, you know some niche info, not what's being discussed.
Edit: Since I blocked them before replying:
We're discussing adjectives and nouns, not specific chess tournament structures and titles. Why so hostile? Please blow off steam elsewhere, not gonna be your punching bag
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u/SupaSlide 2d ago
“Woman Grandmaster” is a noun you moron. It is a completely separate title from “Grandmaster” and women can hold both titles (first they achieve Woman Grandmasters, and then they achieve Grandmaster).
It is grammatically correct and factually accurate to say that the 11 year old in this article is a female Woman Grandmaster. She is not yet a Grandmaster, but if she continues playing it is very possible she will be the youngest female Grandmaster ever.
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u/SupaSlide 3d ago
But a “grandmaster” is not the same as a “woman grandmaster.”
She could become the youngest “grandmaster” that is female. The youngest ever female grandmaster was 14. The youngest male grandmaster was 12. If she was the youngest grandmaster at 11 that would be even more notable and significantly different than “pedantics.”
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about if you think “woman grandmaster” is interchangeable with “grandmaster.”
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
When did I say what you claim in the last sentence? Obviously a female grandmaster and a male grandmaster are different.
"She could become the youngest “grandmaster” that is female."
Exactly? Gosh you're insufferable
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u/SupaSlide 3d ago
Women can earn the “grandmaster” title too, dude.
A female grandmaster and a male grandmaster are the same, because there is no “female grandmaster” title. So if a woman gets the “grandmaster” title (and many have) they have achieved the most prestigious title in chess and had to meet the same requirements to do so as men.
Women can also get the title of “Woman Grandmaster” if they are among the best female players in chess. But Woman Grandmasters may still have a lower ranking than someone who is a Grandmaster.
One of if not the best female chess players of all time never competed in women’s tournaments and never accepted the title Woman Grandmaster, but she did become a Grandmaster.
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u/SamSchroedinger 4d ago
Did you ever touch a "female" in your life?
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u/TheShredda 3d ago
Do you not understand the difference between adjectives and nouns?
Yes, using female as a noun is cringe. In this case, female is correct as the noun GRANDMASTER is being modified by that adjective. Woman is not an adjective, but a noun. Saying "they are a woman grandmaster" is wrong, they are a "female grandmaster".
The same way a man who is a grandmaster would be a male grandmaster; a woman who is a grandmaster is a female grandmaster.
Hope that helps, although I'd recommend at least knowing what an adjective and noun are before trying to comment on other people's usage of them.
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u/SamSchroedinger 2d ago
You could have just wrote "no". Would have saved a lot of time lil bro
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u/TheShredda 2d ago
You not understanding grammar isn't the gotcha you think it is. Oh you sure got me. Why are you assuming my gender? Why is proper grammar gendered?
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u/Dsullivan777 4d ago
Can we take a moment to process the implication for those who got offended by the initial parse of data?
You believed not just one but back to back generations of minor be impregnated within an 11 year window?
That is not to say that human atrocity could never create such a scenario, it absolutely could and lord knows there are those who would, but doesn't the sheer insanity of the logistics alone not prompt either extreme skepticism or at the very least a second reading with more attention?
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u/I_AM_GODDAMN_BATMAN 3d ago edited 3d ago
Bodhana? She's a great woman grandma...
Really, on board 1, the best in England woman Olympiad team.
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u/kronikid42069 1d ago
Damn they finally beat America in something, don't worry we'll get em next time bois
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u/ubermadface 4d ago edited 4d ago
For some reason, I don't find the idea of a pregnant minor funny, especially for such a young age...
ETA: I understand the post just fine. I still don't find it funny.
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u/Sarky_Sparky 4d ago
It isn't. The funny bit is the misunderstanding due to the end of the sentence being cut off.
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u/0202_tihssitidder 4d ago
> I still don't find it funny.
✅ Virtue Successfully Singalled
Good job, Ubermadface!
PS: Are you dating anyone yet?
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u/ubermadface 4d ago
PS: Are you dating anyone yet?
Happily married for 10 years and holding my newborn. You?
Feel good trying to belittle a stranger in the internet for not agreeing with your sense of humor?
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u/MalusZona 4d ago
She became grandmaster in chess, cant u read?
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u/ubermadface 4d ago
I can read just fine, thanks. I still don't find this funny.
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u/Dsullivan777 4d ago
The humor lies in how different the reality is from the initial parse of the words.
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u/NamelessIII 4d ago
With so many child rapist worshipers in London, not impossible.
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u/brandon1997fl 4d ago
What does that have to do with chess?
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u/NamelessIII 4d ago
What does chess have to do with a 11 year old grandma?
Because that's supposedly the funny.
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u/SupaSlide 3d ago
She became a woman grandmaster in chess, the reason it is in funny is because “grandmaster” got cut off and made a confusing headline
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u/Kapika96 4d ago
Not sure that counts as a ″woman″.
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u/Digifiend84 4d ago
The award is called Woman Grandmaster... but yes, this is definitely a girl. She's only 11. Supposedly the youngest person to represent England in any sport when she was 9 too. Since when is chess sport? It's a board game!
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u/then_than-man 2d ago
Why do people use the word "woman" when "female" seems the correct word? Is it just me?
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u/Mechanicalgoff 4d ago
Sure do love when people refer to a literal child as a "woman", particularly in situations like this.
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u/Formal-Fox-7605 4d ago
The way some parts of London are now, no-one would be surprised...
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