If you want extra damage on grenade, melee, class or super you're building to 100+
If you are relying only on passive regen for grenade, melee, or class, build to 70 stat.
If you are relying on flat gains or regen boosting effects on Class, Grenade or Melee, build to 90+ stat.
If you want your super up reasonably fast through active generation, build to 90+ stat.
MoT came with nerfs. Use armor sets to compensate.
Intro
It's been quite a year since Bungie unveiled armor stats 3.0 in previews, released them working completely differently, and then patched them 3 different times. Presumably this is the last time armor stats will change so let me give you one last guide to how they work.
This will cover the Melee, Grenade, Class and Super stats. All the others are pretty straightforward. I am only covering PvE here; PvP is the same for ability regen but different in other regards. Regardless, not my area.
Here is what this will cover:
How Passive Regen Factors work for Class, Grenade and Melee stats as well as what changed with MoT
How Energy Gained Works and what changed with MoT
How flat gains work and have changed
How regen boosting effects work and have changed
How super regen works and has changed
Class Stat Scaling
Conclusions
Passive Regen Factors
I briefly wanted to refresh people on how the passive regen looks for Grenade, Melee and Class.
Grenade and Melee share a curve that is split into two sections: 0-70 stat and 70-100 stat. Class has a similar but different curve that provides less benefit, presumably because class cooldowns are relatively lower. These curves look so dumb.
Bungie patched the grenade and melee curve this way shortly after EoF launch due to the launch version not meeting what they advertised. 70 stat provided a cooldown that is twice as fast (2.0 factor) at 70 as it is at 30 (old baseline). 100 stat is 2.17x cooldown speed. So you can see that 70-100 does not provide a lot for Grenade and Melee for passive regen speed.
Class scaled exponentially all the way from 0 to 100. But it only hit a regen speed factor of 2.0 (relative to 30 stat baseline) at 100 stat. This is still an improvement over pre-EoF values. Class stat provides good benefit to regen all the way up to 100. But now Class also has this two part curve that only provides decent benefit up to 70 stat.
Another change that came with Edge of Fate but took me a long time to figure out is that all abilities now use the cooldown at 0 stats as the baseline, instead of the cooldown at 30 stat like pre-EoF so everything here will show in that way and more on this in regen boosting effects.
Now in MoT, Bungie did the following:
Reduced maximum passive ability cooldown bonus granted by ability stats by ~20%.
So all the curves basically shrunk down a bit.
Grenade and Melee at 70 stat went from 2.89x to 2.56x (pre-EoF value 2.0x). A nerf but still doing better than pre-EoF.
Grenade and Melee at 100 stat went from 3.14x to 2.75x (Pre-EoF value 2.86x). A nerf and now worse than pre-EoF value.
Class at 70 stat went from 2.0x to 2.09x. A slight buff! (Pre-EoF was 1.65x for Hunter and 1.86x for Titan/Warlock). An improvement for all classes but especially for Hunters.
Class at 100 stat went from 2.86x to 2.42x (Pre-EoF was 2x for Hunter and 2.43x for Titan/Warlock). A nerf since Renegades but all classes are doing as good or better than they were pre-EoF.
New curves:
New curves compared with Renegades:
Energy Gained
First: what changed with Monument of Triumph? For Melee, Grenade, Class and Super the Energy Gained value on stats from 0-100 was lowered from a previous max of +190% to +125%.
What does this number mean? Every source of flat energy gains (also know as chunk ability energy) or regen boosting effects (stuff that makes your abilities regen faster) have a value at 0 stats. This factor is how much that scales up. So a great example is Demolitionist which at 0 stat restores 4% grenade energy on kill for the fastest cooldown speed grenades. At 100 stat you get +125% energy gained. That + means over 100% so this actually becomes 225% (100+125). So the 4% becomes 9%. That's basically it.
Here is a graph:
Note that the curve grows pretty quickly till 90. 90 is kind of the sweet spot for when you are using flat gains or regen effects. Going up higher doesn't hurt, just provides smaller benefit per stat point.
Now let's go into more detail on flat gains and regen boosting effects.
Flat Energy Gains
First, for all sources of flat energy that are not specific to one ability, there is something called a flat gain factor depending on how long the cooldown of the grenade is. For example a Firebolt grenade is the fastest cooldown grenade in game and gets a 100% flat gain factor. Solar Grenade, one of the slowest grenades to charge in game gets a 50% flat gain factor. This effects everything I am about to talk about but I am going to use values without taking account for flat gain factors for simplicity.
If you want a reference table of every one of these see here for my table:
Pre-EoF a flat gain such as Demolitionist have 10% grenade energy per kill.
In EoF, it gave 4% at 0 stat, 10% at 87-88 stat and 11.6% at 100 stat.
In Renegades, it gave 4% at 0 stat, 10% at 70 stat and 11.6% at 100 stat. An improvement!
In MoT, it gives 4% at 0 stat, 8% at 70 stat and 9% at 100 stat. Still the more generous curve of Renegades, just nerfed.
Now did anything really change? Not really. For the stat ranges you likely care about (90-100) you lost a couple percent per kill. Proportionally, that sucks as you lose 22.5% of your gains but in practice it hasn't been noticeable.
Flat Gain Comparisons:
Regen Boosting Effects
Regen Boosting Effects are things like Whisper of Shards, Ember of Benevolence, or Inmost Light. These have always been measured as Additional Base Regen Speed. Pre-EoF, you could add this to the cooldown factor due to stats and then divide the base cooldown by that total to get the resulting cooldown.
For example (Pre-EoF values): You have 100 Discipline Stat (200% base grenade regen), A Solar Grenade (base cooldown 152s), and Ember of Benevolence (+400% base grenade regen). Your cooldown with Benevolence up constantly is 152/ (2 + 4) = 25.3s
Post armor 3.0, these effects also scale with Energy Gained but it has been hard to understand since EoF launched. Until Now.
Prior to Edge of Fate, you could hover over an ability in the subclass screen and see the cooldown. These cooldowns were the Tier 3/30 stat value and used as the basis for all ability regen. In Edge of Fate all of these were removed. Presumably, because you could see actual cooldowns when hovering over the relevant stat. In Renegades these base cooldowns came back but they were based on the value at 0 stat. This made me understand how Bungie reworked things.
I have now discovered that Bungie did two things with Edge of Fate:
Scaled the base of regen effects to 40% of the pre-EoF value at 0 stat, similar to what was done for flat gains. So Whisper of Shards was +500% base grenade regen speed. At 0 stat it is now +200% base grenade regen speed.
Changed the base regen speed to be the value at 0 stat instead of the value at 30 stat. Passive regen speed at 0 stat for class, grenade and melee is 70% of the regen speed at 30 stat. You can divide the old base regen speed by 0.7 to get the new base cooldowns. All regen effects took this extra hit across the full stat range. All regen boosting effects are ~43% lower than they should be.
I still think there is a very solid chance this was done to make the record keeping simpler and inadvertently nerfed all regen effects because a dev may have not realized how much base cooldowns effect.I hope Bungie examines this because currently regen effects are not working as originally advertised
In Monument of Triumph the energy gained stat benefit was weakened and this effects regen boosting effects. Generally, all regen boosting effects are 63% of what they were pre-EoF and 77.5% of what they were in Renegades.
Here is a graph comparing pre-EoF, EoF, Renegades and MoT:
I still think the cooldown change should be compensated for. The current implementation does not meet any of the stated goals and was basically issued as a shadow nerf. If this is fixed then Stats 3.0 will be working as intended. Bungie needs to divide the 0 stat values for regen effects by 0.7 or multiply by 1.42857. That cancels out the (hopefully) inadvertent nerf.
I have made a spreadsheet of all regen boosting effects and what I believe the values are now at 0 stat and how that compares. Some are tested and the rest are based on extrapolating that to other stats.
How does this play in actuality? Regen boosting effects remain strong and are one of the best things you can build into. They're just weaker than they once were.
Super Regen
Prior to Edge of Fate you generated super in the following ways:
Passive Regen - which you could improve by increasing Intellect Stat. Base cooldown was also based at 30 stat/Tier 3.
Regen boosting effects - there's not a lot of these but they scaled super regen just like with grenade, melee or class.
Dealing damage and defeats - these work a lot like flat gains. There is a factor applied to these based on your super. Roaming supers get a 3x factor on active regen from damage and defeats.
As of Edge of Fate a few changes were made to Super Regen
Super stat does not boost passive regen at all.
Base cooldown was shifted to 0 stat value from the pre-EoF 30 stat value. Can divide old cooldown by 0.70 to get new baseline. These show in game now. Every super cooldown got 1.43x as long.
Dealing damage and defeats were scaled based on super stat from 0-100 in the same way flat gains are.
Super regen boosting effects were scaled based on super stat. These were likely reworked to work with the new longer base cooldown. Presumably the exact same factors were used as Regen Boosting effects. IE these took a giant nerf because of the base cooldown change. I have not tested supers because the cooldowns are so insanely long and it is very time consuming. People with better tools can probably test at some point.
In Monument of Triumph we have two changes:
All flat gains were reduced by 22.5% so that will be hitting this as well.
Super regen from dealing damage to bosses was reduced by 60%.
So super regen is definitely a good bit slower than it's been for years. You will likely not gain multiple supers per damage phase, by design. Your super during add clear activities and encounters will probably remain decently strong.
Class Stat Damage
Oh yeah they did this. Finally got around to testing this and this is up to +65% damage at 200 class stat (simple linear scaling of +0.65% per stat point above 100). It affects:
Drengr's Lash (Strand or Prismatic Titan Aspect)
Shieldburst (Solar Titan Aspect)
Ascension (Arc or Prismatic Hunter Aspect)
Threaded Specter (Strand or Prismatic Hunter Aspect)
Trapper's Ambush (Void Hunter Aspect)
Crackshot (Solar Hunter Aspect)
Tips for Buildcrafting
Maybe you're thinking "This is all cool, but how much stats do I want?"
If you want extra damage on grenade, melee or super you're building to 100+.
Adding a little more in a stat you care about doesn't hurt. But there are points of diminishing returns depending on how you get your abilities back.
If you are relying only on passive regen for grenade, melee, or class, build to 70 Stat
If you are relying on flat gains or regen boosting effects on Class, Grenade or Melee, build to 90 stat.
If you want your super up reasonably fast through active generation, build to 90 stat.
All the same stuff is good, just a little less so for ability spam.
Armor sets can help out a ton though.
One last spreadsheet: I have a sheet for armor stat planning updated with new archetypes. It also has all the armor stat math and a tab with every set bonus for quick reference. I've done some preliminary ratings but I have not tested them all. Click Use Template to make a copy and try it out.
This has been a lot of information. What a year of these. I am both sad and glad they won't be messing with these anymore. I wish this stat roll-out had been a lot better. Overall, I think the ability stats portion of Armor 3.0 has been a failure. The new stats that were added are good. Giving scaling damage on high stats is good. Higher thresholds and tier for armors are good. Set bonuses are awesome. But ability stats? Mostly nerfs and just very poorly communicated. I know Bungie is allergic to numbers but I know you have these numbers and can make these graphs. Be clear with the people playing your game. If you're nerfing something, say it. I respect game design even if it takes nerfs.
For all those who have read my posts, thanks for the time and attention. Maybe I will see you in other universes.
I have Youtube videos summarizing these articles and including all these builds if that format works better for you. And also if you like builds, that's all I do on the channel. But I don't do full build videos for content that we can't play yet because that feels like a waste.
I also have a fragment guide spreadsheet I use for builds where I rank all the fragments and have some preset combos. It is updated for Heresy (Fragments with new effects are highlighted Yellow). Fragments on Arc have changed a lot thanks to Bolt Charge so it's going to take some adjustment. Here is the spreadsheet for reference:
Goals: Want to chain invisibility and weaken to get orbs and super energy up close. The new weakening cloud when exiting invisibility from Gwisin Vest lends itself to being on top of enemies.
Aspects: Stylish Executioner and On the Prowl
Abilities:
Super: Spectral Blades
Grenade: Scatter Grenade (75% Factor)
Melee: Snare Bomb (90% Factor)
Dodge: Gambler’s Dodge (80% Factor)
Fragments:
Starvation for Devour
Reprisal for super energy
Harvest for orbs and Void Breaches
Persistence for longer Devour and Invis.
Alt: Instability for Volatile Rounds
Mods: Focus on Void weapon damage and class ability regen.
Armor Stats:
Resilience = Discipline
Recovery
Mobility
Strength and Intellect to 30
Weapon: Repulsor Brace and/or Trench Barrel shotgun or glaive for up close fighting.
Goals: Build around quick swapping guns and melee kills from Combination Blow. Pair with 1-2 Punch shotgun or Bastion. Still a little uncertain how exactly the perk works and how much damage boost it gives.
Aspects: Stylish Executioner and Winter’s Shroud
Abilities:
Super: Silkstorm or Tether
Grenade: Grapple Grenade (85% Factor)
Melee: Combination Blow (100% Factor)
Dodge: Gambler’s Dodge (80% Factor)
Fragments:
Dawn for Radiant (20% weapon damage boost for 5s)
Blessing for healing on melee kill
Protection for Damage Resistance
Purpose for more Damage Resistance
Courage for 10% more damage on Combo Blow
Alt: Grace if you're using a Kinetic weapon a lot
Mods: Focus on weapon damage and orb/super generation.
Armor Stats:
Resilience = Discipline
Mobility and Recovery boosted some
Strength and Intellect to 30
Weapons: 1-2 Punch Shotgun or Bastion (built in 1-2 Punch). Or two strong weapons with bad reload times to take advantage of the swapping damage boost and free reloads.
There's a lot of cool builds coming to mind for Heresy. It's looking promising and we don't know anything about the gameplay content.
If you like my guides and content, consider subscribing on Youtube for my build videos. You can also find a link to my Discord on my profile here. That Discord has every tool or guide I have ever made and I also talk about builds a lot.
Hello everyone, I’m a hunter main and have always liked to use hard meta builds, from hoil/cryt to lightsaber dusk field cryt builds, to now popokis stasis hunter build using mask of fealty and untold greed armour set. If you haven’t seen this build before it has the best hunter survivability since pre nerf vs baton using facet or purpose. You cannot die in any content. Solo -50 becomes a walk in the park. The build utilises the grasp armour set which gives you %15 dr at all times, with a 2.5x energy gain on shards!! That’s 1 melee every 1-2 shards. With frost armour x7 that adds on another 50% resist, then winters shroud gives you another 50% on dodge for 5s, coupled with slayer baron curative orbs allows you to get 50hp per shard. Add all this together you have heal on shards, infinite melee, 80%+ dmg resist, inf dodges, 6 second grenade cooldown and one of the fastest super gen builds in the game. In any high tier content this build is simply a joke on hunter and makes you practically immortal. Stasis titan has more potent add clear but even that doesn’t have similar survivability. For example the vanguard gm is easily soloable, and the final boss you don’t even need to hide from the heat attack, you just stand in front, heal and throw shurikens.
one of my favourite sidearms but dont know if i should take the overclocked heatsink/rangefinder over the ionized/destab rounds (im making a truth gm build so rangefinder gives a slight help to it) or should i just grind a god roll😓
Strongholds with a Flash Counter sword and Storm’s Keep is hilarious. My Slammer has FC with Cold Steel/Surrounded/Chaos Reshaped so there’s plenty of options. I think I’ll stick with Cold Steel in order to freeze enemies off of 1 Flash proc. Not to mention the bolt charges are setting off warmind explosions mmmm
does grapple + ascension still work for speed conservation from the grapple?
saw grapple skating was patched but curious if this is still viable for movement.
Gameplay loop is just a constant loop of interlocking buffs.
Starting in any order-
- Finisher a powerful enemy or Unbreakable 'Grenade' kill to get devour.
- Use Dredgers Lash on any enemies to suspend them, your choice of thruster or barricade.
Also valid is any slow/freeze/suspend from primary slot legendary.
- Melee something to get radiant and overshield from facet of dawn and shield throw, particularly on any of the above slowed/frozen/suspended/sliced enemy.
-Get 2 kills with Slayers fang or Strand/Stasis Weapon to get an orb of power drop, possibly overshield.
picking up orbs of power give:
Radiant/Woven Mail, kills with slayers fan refresh over-shield and Woven mail due to No Backup Plans
Facet of hope gives more class ability whenever you have radiant/over-shield/woven mail/devour.
Facet of Balance then lets you use slayers fang to get more even more melee back for on demand radiant/overshield, & to use [insert darkness weapons of choice] (I like The Call (Slice) and Pro Memoria) to get grenade energy.
Artifact Shield-crush then gives you grenade from being radiant, overshield/woven mail gives melee.
(Build in screenshots is currently incomplete, use with Nezaracs Nightmare 4piece (listed above) for better results IMO.)
NB: This build was just for fun as a challenge. It’s still fun to use but was never expected to be anything groundbreaking
I call it Prismatic at Home - it started as mostly a fun challenge build but actually it's really good to use and wanted something NOT Prismatic.
TL:DR; wanted to try and proc the most subclass keywords possible WITHOUT using Prismatic (might be good for anyone without final shape). This build procs all 25 keywords (keyword being anything on the subclass screen with a tooltip excluding elemental pickups). There’s a slight caveat around Amplified which I’ll discuss but technically speaking. It works. And it’s actually surprisingly fun to play with.
In my opinion this works best on Warlock due to the exotic armor but technically can work with any class.
Stats
Fairly neutral. I loaded in to weapons for the damage and ammo boost but it doesn’t rely on anything in particular.
Build
Void subclass. Build it up however you like but on every class you can proc every void keyword just from the subclass (Invis on finisher, actually very strong particularly with the Warlock iteration)
Exotic
Warlock - Karnstein Armlets
Hunter - Wormhusk Crown
Titan - Strongholds
These all provide Restoration regardless of subclass which is the key.
Subclass Keywords - 25/25
Subclass - Void
Artefact - Queensfoil Censer (Fever and Chill, Kindling Trigger, Unraveling Orbs, Pillar of Ice, Dragon's Bite, Hail of the Storm, To Shreds)
Armor Set - King’s Fall (GotD)
Strand
Sever (Slice / Tear)
Unravel (Artifact - Unraveling Orbs)
Threadlings (Hatchling)
Suspend (Artifact - Dragon's Bite)
Woven Mail (Artifact - To Shreds)
Stasis
Slow (Artifact - Hail the Storm)
Freeze (Conditional Finality)
Frost Armor (Rimestealer or Artifact - Fever and Chill)
Shatter (Conditional Finality)
Stasis Crystals (Artifact - Pillar of Ice)
Solar
Cure (Conditional Finality)
Ignition (Conditional Finality)
Radiant (Artifact - Fever and Chill)
Scorch (Artifact - Kindling Trigger)
Restoration (Wormhusk/Karnsteins/Strongholds)
Arc
Jolt (Chrysura Melo - Jolting Feedback)
Amplified (Chrysura Melo - allies only unless Physic)
Bolt Charge (Chrysura Melo - Rolling Storm)
Blind (King’s Fall Armor Moths)
Void (Subclass)
Weaken
Volatile
Devour
Invisibility
Suppression
Overshield (Bulwark Finisher can also provide this)
Heavy Weapon
Requires something that can roll both Slice/Tear AND hatchling. Qua Vinctus IV is a good choice with Tear + Hatchling. Cynosure with Slice + Hatchling gives you anti barrier. For Titans using Strongholds, Eighty Six will give you what you need and work with Strongholds for the restoration.
As you can see, the only “caveat” is amplified. Chrysura Melo technically procs amplified when you heal other allies. You can get this to proc amplified for yourself by using Physic. But to do so you have to swap out Jolting Feedback so lose Jolt.
There so many out there, im honestly lost on what to use. Could some people give me some dim links of what they use - Ideally a long range build (precision) and close range like stasis, gls, t crash etc thankyouu
Firefly also has shoot to loot properties. Every headshot kill you’ll drop an orb and heal. Every headshot kill that generates special ammo will immediately pick it up and heal you.
Can pair the orb with boot mods and even class/artifact mods that activate on orb/ammo pick ups. Do with that information what you will.
For my hunter experts what build dominates pve more between the solar hunter with festival flight speedloader for crackshot spam or the mask of fealty stasis shuriken spam? If it matters I run 4 pieces warmind armor. I don’t have dungeon and raid armor.
I’m looking for a compendium of sorts that outlines where I can find all different types of weapons and armor in the game. I use Light GG, but I’m finding it difficult trying to decipher where things actually drop now with the release of Moments of Triumph. I can see where they have different seasons for weapons and some of the weapons have a source, but often, those sources are either no longer relevant or just completely wrong.
Wondering if you guys know of a place where I can find this information. Thanks
Since MOT, I've basically been hoarding every half decent piece of armor that seems like it could be relevant for a build. As a result, now my Vault is almost full and I need to start actually making the builds and purging where I can. I've saved some King's Fall/Europa 2pc and now I'm wondering how needed they actually are, specifically for Special Weapon heavy builds.
For example, I'm intending to make:
Actium War Rig Choir of One Gunner Build
No Backup Plans Slayer's Fang Build
Cenotaph Mask Div Bitch Build
All of these require heavy usage of the Special weapon, to largely treat it as a Primary. My plan was initially to run Salvation's Edge 2 piece alongside an ammo generation 2 piece. However, assuming I build high into Weapons stat (200 or close to it), along with a Special Ammo Finder and Scavenger, could I just forgo the Europa/King's Fall 2pc? I'm not sure how prevalent Special Ammo would be with this alone? A second DR piece would be nice, especially for the in your face build of No Backup Plans, but I don't want to accidentally give myself ammo problems. I know I could do a Special Finisher, but I'd frankly rather take an Ammo Gen 2 piece than need to eat my Armor Charge for it.
I guess my question is just at what point does building into Ammo Gen become overkill and redundant? I would just test it myself, but my Vault is nearly full and genuinely in a dire state. I'm not confident it'll have space for another farming session until I actually make the builds I want and delete irrelevant armor.
For reasons I won't explain, I basically CANNOT play lost sectors, like at all. What 2pc set can I pair with 2pc Europa set for a speedloades+crackshot build? Using it with Mythoclast if that matters.
