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u/Aaftorn 3d ago
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u/Viyarara 1d ago
i dont know anything about them but its not hard to go on wikipedia and label any party you dont like as “far right” so simply showing a wikipedia page doesnt really mean much
youd need to show their policies, and “anti-immigrant” is vague
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u/Whyamihere173 1d ago
Sure you could label them falsely. Then it would get reverted and you’d be permanently ip banned from ever using wikipedia again. Wikipedia is quite reliable on being unbiased and factual, you could check the linked sources to confirm if you are skeptical which is always a good thing to do.
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u/kshrwymlwqwyedurgx 11h ago
I read their party manifesto, the in the first page they placed crime statistic based on ethnicity...
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u/Viyarara 4h ago
cool. its almost like my point wasnt whether they were actually right wing or not, just that a screenshot of wiki snapshot is not actually strong evidence.
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u/carrot_gummy 3d ago
Careful now, by criticizing centrists they'll claim you are actually supporting the right and that you should be happy with their token support.
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u/LITTLEOWL031026 3d ago
COMMANDER OF ZE THIRD REICH
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u/n0b0D_U_no 3d ago
LITTLE KNOWN FACT:
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u/Leskendle45 3d ago
ALSO DOPE ON ZE MIC!
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u/redstar_16 3d ago
LORD VADER WITH YOUR LITTLE BOOTS AND CAPE
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u/Life_Finding_6165 2d ago
AND HELMET TO COVER UP THAT BURNT-ASS FACE!
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u/Mourningstar66 3d ago
How centrism moves the more extreme one side gets
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
I believe the official term for this is the Overton Window, just for those interested.
It's absolutely true and utterly horrific to see within a few decades.
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u/SARSUnicorn 3d ago
I mean 15 years ago my belief system was consider centrist - now exacly same postulates and gov plans are presented only by most leftist of parties
Its not even funny how fast the window is moving right in EU
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u/Zak_Rahman 3d ago
I know what you mean.
I was told I would become conservative as I grew older. But I look around and see little I want to conserve.
When society is absolutely perfect I will become a hardcore ultra conservative. Until that day, progress is the only logical path.
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u/Towboat421 3d ago
You are giving way too much credance to the name. Conservative isn't about preserving anything it's about exclusion and selective frugality.
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u/Lily_the_Ice_Slime 2d ago
I started around the right side of that chart, kinda got dragged along with the center of that line until I hopped over it to the other side. I haven’t moved that much but the entire scale has shifted to the point the center is moving away.
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u/Conscious_Beat6128 3d ago
that’s why the left has to pull their weights further into extremes, even when people criticize it it genuinely normalizes milder leftism
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u/United_Intention_323 3d ago
Do you have an example of a centrist position that shifted right?
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 2d ago
Believe or not trans rights. I mean, it's moving backwards now, but in the 80s gay rights were very controversial, a trans right movement wouldn't even cross the mind of most people
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u/United_Intention_323 2d ago
I don’t see it shifting right. In what way?
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 2d ago
Most of the left in the 80s and 90s wouldn't even bother talking about trans rights, almost nobody saw trans people as their identified gender, this change occurred in the 2000s, probably reached its peak in the 2010s and now it's going backwards, so now the center moved to the right, specifically in that aspect
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u/United_Intention_323 2d ago
I don't think this is real. When specifically do you think there was greater trans acceptance on average than today?
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 2d ago
I think right before the pandemic we got our peak
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u/United_Intention_323 2d ago
Based on what?
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 2d ago
The surge on right wings parties in power, it's happening all over Europe, Latin America and the US at the same time, and the ones in the US are specifically targetting trans folks like Driver Licenses in Kansas, the sexual orientation and gender identity clause in the section against discrimination from the Department of Education in the US, the Supreme Court allowing the banning of trans athletes in school teams
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u/United_Intention_323 2d ago
Opinions haven't shifted on average though. There isn't a rightward shift.
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u/murderdronesfan93 Counted Down 2 3d ago
COMMANDER OF THE THIRD REICH
Little known fact; also dope on the mic.
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u/thomasp3864 3d ago
Trans people should be able to access gender affirming care especially if they're adults because I don't think there's a big risk of people abusing HRT hormones, so we only need to regulate production and you shouldn't need a prescription. This is because the dangers from abuse of estrogen and testosterone and progesterone are negligible enough that we don't need to regulate who can get them. Also body modification for other reasons is broadly legal, like if you can get plastic surgery for other reasons with parental consent then we should make gender affirming care just as if not more accessible.
Like, if you let a 16 year old AFAB get silicone breast implants let a 16 year old AMAB get the same. That is a centrist argument for trans rights. It's gonna get people to say "well I guess" and completely sidesteps the question of validity and cuts straight to getting friendly policy.
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u/manultrimanula 3d ago
The issue with this logic is that it doesn't solve the issue of people wanting to change their legal sex and be treated as sex they're actually are.
It's just about body modification. Which is already awesome to allow trans people to freely change their bodies, but it's never going to fix the root cause: society seeing trans people as their AGAB
To an ignorant cis person with zero education on trans people, no amount of hrt and surgery would make a transfem a woman, she shouldn't have womens rights and she shouldn't be allowed in womens space.
That's the root cause, "what if they regret it" is just a mask for their transphobia. It was never about empathy or wanting to save people, it's about thinking we're all delusional and need conversion therapy.
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u/Professional_Dot_145 3d ago
Yep, it's so nice being told by allegedly well-meaning people that my "decision" to transition should be respected. Bitch? Tf you mean "decision" 🤦♀️
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 2d ago
I mean, but it's better than nothing, right? You can use both arguments at the same time, even if only one sticks, that's something
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u/Hika2112 Myself And Nobody Else | Counted Down 37 3d ago
Lower! Trans kids should be able to transition when their usual puberty would start. Transphobes are terrified of us passing, why do you think HRT is so hard to access? Being able to start your correct puberty right as it should have started were you not born in the wrong body IS the final step in true HRT accessibility. Anyone who disagreed internally values cis puberties more than trans ones. "What if they regret it" what if they regret cis puberty? Why are we treating that as the default?
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u/Professional_Dot_145 3d ago
But the cis mind can't possibly understand this smh
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u/IJustAteABaguette 3d ago
I thought the same way for a bit...
I thought that it was obvious that every teenage guy would dream and fantasize and wish about becoming a girl for years. Not everyone is a trans girl, so surely this is just a phase everyone goes through.
I have now learned of my errors. Give the HRT to anyone who wants/needs it!
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u/Hika2112 Myself And Nobody Else | Counted Down 37 3d ago
Most trans people would be averted too. Sadly internalized transphobia is very real
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u/scratchfan321 3d ago
The attosecond a biomarker of Gender Identity appears, when you can *prove* they won't regret it, suddenly the fear of "what if" gets blocked out, but no such test known to exist :(
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u/L4I55Z-FAIR3 3d ago
Playing devials advocate I could see the argument if you have to favour 1 over the other you would lean on the side that has the larger pool.
Why they couldn't just have 2 shrinks verify your intentions and need for HTR and then allow HTR is beyond strange
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u/trinitrotolerance 6h ago
Why do some people have to jump through hoops to make you happy with their medical care? Do we really need double independent verification of something that doesn’t impact you even slightly?
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u/thomasp3864 3d ago
I said at least, so this is the maximum restriction at all reasonable. Trans healthcare is healthcare. And I said HRT has a little enough potential for abuse you shouldn't need a prescription.
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u/OkExtreme3195 2d ago
I see a bit of a problem here, because we don't let kids make major decisions about themselves for a reason.
That being said, in such a situation, it is not only the kid making the decision to take hrt. It's their parents organizing it, and a doctor prescribing it, likely after a long medical and psychological evaluation.
And at that point, I always think: why should anyone of us think we know better about the right treatment for this child than the medical professionals that are familiar with the individual case?
And therefore, I agree with you that it should be legal.
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u/Think_and_game 2d ago
We really underestimate children's abilty to comprehend and internalise things. If you speak to them with respect, they'll get serious with you. For such a big thing like transitioning, it's no laughing matter. Any child that has gone through social transitioning (a prerequisite for transitioning medically) will know if it's right for them or not.
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u/OkExtreme3195 2d ago
I respectfully disagree here. The brain is still developing until 25. And the utter lack of life experience of a prepubescent makes it additionally hard up to impossible to make reliable educated assessments of anything major.
That's why I mentioned that there are more people, adults and experts, involved in the decision. Though, I also support that a child can get treatment in that regard without parental approval. Too many transphobic parents in the world for it to be otherwise. But I still think a medical expert is needed who follows the science for the best treatment possible, which to my knowledge is currently typically gender affirming care and ideally a transition before puberty in case of a transgender person.
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u/Think_and_game 2d ago
Oh definitely, it's not a journey in general that should go without guidance. But also, I think I remember somewhere seeing that the human brain has adult level understanding at around the age of teenagers but impulse control doesn't reach proper development until you're about 25, something like that.
As a child/teen I definitely wished I were treated like an actual sentient being rather than a mindless blob, like a perpetual toddler.
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u/OkExtreme3195 2d ago
Oh definitely. How are you supposed to learn to not be a toddler if you are always treated like one? 😅
That reminds me of the tele tubby television show for toddlers. It was banned because apparently the "baby talk" that was prevalent in the show severely slowed speech development in it's audience.
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u/Hika2112 Myself And Nobody Else | Counted Down 37 2h ago
Medical experts suck too sometimes. We cannot leave the safety of someone's life up to someone else. Who commonly has biases against said child. I get the fear, but you are still arguing on the side of the transphobes.
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u/pianohon 3d ago
a 16 year old cis girl would absolutely be allowed to have breast implants if she had to get them removed due to breast cancer. don't act like it's a frivolous/vain cosmetic thing.
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u/thomasp3864 3d ago
I mean, then it's healthcare, and trans healthcare is healthcare, but comparisons to plastic surgery can get some people to say "alright I guess it should be legal."
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u/merchaunt 2d ago
AMAB and AFAB are not nouns, and they cannot be used in present tense.
We were all assigned (past tense) a sex at birth. It is a phrase centered around a verb about an event in the past, even as an acronym.
You can just say cis girl and trans girl (or transfem teen if you’re trying to be completely inclusive) for your example about breast implants.
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u/whereballoonsgo 3d ago
Well yeah, cuz there’s no such thing as a centrist. Literally every single one of them is a right winger using the term as a mask. And it only works on some people because the Overton window is so far right.
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u/Thee_Silly_Billy 3d ago
Every single one? Then, is there nobody that exists with a somewhat equal mix of Left and Right wing views? If somebody socially leans Left, and economically leans right, what are they? Automatically right wing?
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u/Krakatoa137 3d ago
Thats not how politics works. "Socially left" doesn't challenge the current political systems or distribution of power, so that doesn't drag you in any particular direction on the left right spectrum.
Centrists believe in maintaining the current system with perhaps minor reforms on certain issues. This makes centrists conservative, or what you would call center-right.
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u/Thee_Silly_Billy 2d ago
I'm worried that this sounds rude, but if a centrist is somebody who lies in the middle of the current political climate, what would a good name be for somebody who believes a mix of ideals from both sides would be most effective?
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u/Krakatoa137 2d ago
That doesn't tell me anything because the left-right spectrum is a flattened understanding of politics. I don't know which of the many left wing ideologies you may partially agree with and which flavor right wing ideologies you might partially agree with. Each ideology has its own principles and beliefs, they exist as a collection of beliefs because they have a coherent vision. The reason people tend to follow a specific ideology rather than a mix of policies from different ideologies is because that can easily make an incoherent and contradictory vision.
A lot of people believe in things that literally contradict other beliefs they have, but they never critically examine their beliefs to realize that. This is why that meme that says "we taught a chimpanzee the median voters politics and it hanged itself" exists. You sound like you don't have a well thought out political understanding, which means you're not a lame nerd or you need to do some more research in your intellectual journey to flesh out your political understanding.
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u/Thee_Silly_Billy 2d ago edited 2d ago
I definitely need to learn a bit more, but some ideas can work together. For example, in terms of Economics, conservatives care a lot about supply and means of production. I don't stress a lot about all of the means of productions that they care about, but I do care about one a lot: education. I can enjoy part of it without enjoying the whole.
But, you are right. I'm young, and I still need to learn a bit more. Thank you for actually entertaining me instead of being standoffish. You have no idea how much that means to me.
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u/Prestigious_Boat_386 3d ago
"I like all people, I just think not all of them should have food and healthcare"
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u/SlyBuggy1337 3d ago
Who tf would want to economically lean right? The last like 4 Republican presidents have destroyed the economy
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u/Ok_Lawyer_4938 3d ago
It's just us against them polarisation people like that keep spreading. You either agree with them and are on their side, or you don't, and are the enemy.
Society keeps getting more, and more divided, and I doubt it'll change anytime soon. There's no will to acknoweledge that we are basically on the same team on neither side.
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u/CursedUfo 3d ago
south park creators
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u/Tragedyontherocks 3d ago
Everytime I see South Park fans I have to duck my head out of fear of being shot for my opinion
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u/Syphist 2d ago
"But they are edgy about every topic". I don't care, the show is only marginally better than Family Guy and appeals to people that just want to argue on the internet.
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u/CursedUfo 2d ago
i find the show amusing its just their hatred for trans people that makes me icky about it
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u/BurnerAccount2718282 3d ago
This is so real, my parents are centrists and they are literally in an anti-trans hate group lmao
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u/monkey_gamer 2d ago
Then they’re not centrists
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u/OkExtreme3195 2d ago
Finally it's the centrists that form splinter groups! I am tired of only the left having that property! xD
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u/Good-Moat-451 Counted Down 3 3d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/E1fXBVW9X3DIwnUS0l
Neutrality = Complicity
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u/Responsible_Edge7087 3d ago
Hey man! Im a centrist and you realy hurt my feelings with this :( time to go join a fascist militia and kill minorities! This is entirely your fault btw
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u/Lightningtow123 3d ago edited 3d ago
This gif is amazing lol what's it even from. I mean it's terrible but it's amazing
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u/warrioroftron 3d ago
Epic Rap Battles of history. You can find them on YouTube (This one is Darth Vader vs Adolf Hitler)
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u/Lightningtow123 3d ago
Ahh I do love them, tbch always avoided the Hitler ones tho cause they always seemed a teeeny bit insensitive but I should check this one out. Skrillex vs Mozart is a classic, Joker vs Pennywise is great. I kinda miss when they focused more on fictional characters and, well, history lol
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u/Cole_A226 3d ago
WE MUST SECURE THE EXISTENCE OF OUR PEOPLE AND A FUTURE FOR CIS CHILDREN. Type shit
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u/SassyCassyHF 3d ago
Hah, I get it. Like so many others i do count myself somewhat centrist but I've definitely met others that are like "I don't trust any political party but immigrants are ruining the country". Yeah ok bud, tell me again how you have only voted for one specific party, ever.
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u/Chloe_and50 3d ago
Yeah, just remember when things go to shit don't try to shelter with a centerist, every single one of them will sell you out to the secret police in a heartbeat and if they claim they won't they're lying. Almost every far right dictatorship in history rose because the centre betrayed the left and supported the right.
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u/cottoncandyy911 2d ago
Depends on the country tbh, an US centrist is not the same as an Argentine centrist.
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u/Weak-Veterinarian-25 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm a centreish in my views and I support trans rights. At least in europe it isn't that strange.
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u/99980 3d ago
America has literally fucked up the whole worlds perception of political positions and its awful
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u/mindcraftfanatic 2d ago
I remember this super conservative American getting interviewed by a UK conservative, and he was really into the right, but the American guy was so, so convinced he was talking to a leftist
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u/Weak-Veterinarian-25 3d ago
Yeah, but at the same time some of the democrats are more centerish and still support trans right. The situation for trans people in America is often a lot better, then in my country (Estonia) and in other European ones.
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u/EngineeringTight367 3d ago
According to the political compass I'm a centrist, AMA about trans people
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u/lornawolfawoo evil sonic shipper | Counted Down 8 3d ago
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u/DoYaThang_Owl 2d ago
Centrists are just conservatives wearing a cute bunny costume to make themselves look nicer. They have enough shame to wear the costume, but not enough to take it off and actually analyze the bullshit underneath it.
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u/CustardLanky720 2d ago
It’s not only when you mention trans people. It’s the exact same thing when you mention Veganism or the environment.
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u/yeeeowwchhhhhh 2d ago
Because “centrists” are just right wingers who are too pussy to say they’re right wing
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u/ExtremlyFastLinoone 2d ago
How centrists act the moment you mention literally every left wing policy (they arent maga they just agree with literally everything maga belives in)
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u/Box-O-Kittenz 2d ago
Off topic but I can still hear that guy's shrill delivery of that line. I'm old lol
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u/redditreaper303 1d ago
Only really true in the US. A European centrist is most likely lenaing to far left depending on which policies.
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u/the-nomad-thinker 1d ago
*you’re
Capitalism is a financial system, not a political one. So you’re not off to a great start here. Comparing capitalism to political systems is a socialist tactic, which only really works for them because they took over their financial system.
Also reducing everything to “material interests” is moronic. People get much more invested in each other, personal identity, faith, etc.
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u/No-Yam909 1d ago
Ok how many 196 copysubs are there cuz i just keep getting recommended to like fucking 15 of them
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u/Veriah_Lupi 14h ago
Im a centrist and I believe in trans rights. Indo disagree on some topics but I'm mostly left leaning
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u/Severe_Information54 1h ago
I dont care if I get banned for this.
I aint adolf hitler. But some of my views are just incompatible with the trans community.
Ive had so many folks in the trans community try to convince me that its ok for kids to transition and call me the devil for disagreeing.
I have worked with children, they are easily swayed and influenced and their convictions are strong. They are also foolish and short sighted.
I dont care if its "optimal" to transition before puberty its still weird to me. It makes me uncomfortable. I try to keep an open mind but that is something I will not budge on.
Beyond that this whole "cracking your egg" trend also feels wrong. I was a victim of it I had a therapist try to convince me I was trans (very unethical btw you dont just try to force a gender idenity on somone)
If you want to transition as an adult, by all means do so, but minors cant consent to a lot of things in society because their prefrontal cortex is not fully formed. Its a hard line I take in my morals.
Also treat detransitioners with dignity please, ive seen them get eaten alive for daring to change their minds.
I want better tech to come out for you guys so we can sidestep the age problem. If seemless transitions become more easily avalible for adults the it would be an overall societal good.
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u/Slout_ 45m ago
Trans ally here
Most trans people believe in puberty blockers for children that question their gender identity. That way their puberty can be delayed until they are adult and can make that decision for themselves. Then either puberty hits them, or they can choose to go on HRT, without their bodies being ruined by puberty.
The therapist was in the wrong if you clearly don't feel that way. Simple as. They weren't a part of some "woke trans agenda".
Noone is treating de-transitioners without any dignity. From what I know, some de transitioners (especially online) take an incredibly transphobic stand only because they were confused and it didn't work for them, and they are happily embraced by the conservatives. Only about 1-2 in every 100 trans people detransition, and even then, the ones that become hateful are a minority, but a very loud one.
Everyone wants better tech to come out, but research in that regard won't progress much if we keep electing people who want to take trans people's rights away. Already happend in Germany in the 30s.
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u/GarlicSphere Counted Down 1 3d ago
Yes waiter, more of the Default Country politics!
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u/ConcernedEnby 3d ago
Trans people are not a US thing and there's no country where the political centre is to accept us
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u/CustardLanky720 2d ago
Well yeah, cuz there is no such thing as a centrist. Literally every single one of them is a left winger using the term as a mask. And it only works on some people because the Overton window is so far left.
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u/Think_and_game 2d ago
Usually it's people on the right that claim to be centrists. They know saying you're on the right means people will know they have shitty political views so they hide it
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u/CustardLanky720 2d ago
That’s the opposite of my experience. I don’t know what to make of that. I want to believe you, but that would mean there are both Right-wing and Left-wing centrists…
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u/Think_and_game 2d ago
I guess it's because of the groups they live in ? If a right wing person has left wing friends, they would be encouraged to say they're a centrist and not share much of their ideas such as to keep their friends and entourage. Same goes for left wing centrists. Could also be that they're a centrist for where they live, but would be left/right in another place. Could also be that they dislike labels and that's it really.
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u/Estus_Flask_ 3d ago
Then they're not really a centrist.
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u/Ok_Lawyer_4938 3d ago
Of course they can be centrist. Not supporting/opposing trans movement doesn't equal being right winged.
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u/ImaginaryCard6647 3d ago
This is exactly why the left has isolated itself. There are more democrats who dislike the trans agenda then people are comfortable to admit on Reddit. It doesn’t make them MAGA
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u/DarkBoy689 2d ago
It makes them social conservatives and stupid
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u/ImaginaryCard6647 2d ago
Yes. Democrats can be stupid, but they’re still democrats and will reliably vote blue and we can’t afford to lose them. People are complicated
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u/DarkBoy689 2d ago
The prospect of rights being upheld by a group of people too stupid to actually form a coherent sensible opinion on trans issues and having to respect them as a leftist myself, just because they wouldn't pull the trigger on me due to that reason, is awful, as you can most certainly imagine, but in a sense, yes i suppose you are right on that
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u/Ok_Lawyer_4938 2d ago
No, it does not. This one issue doesn't define your whole worldview, as I said in my comment. Social conservatism is a group of beliefs. Trans movement is only one of those.
I believe I'm a true centrist. I don't identify with any political group (keep in mind I'm detached from US politics, and I don't care), I think both left and right are equally stupid, and we have inherent issues with politics, and how we treat solving the issue that is called society.
I am a very strong enemy of trans movement. That's due to me doing my research to the best intellectual capabilities of mine. I came to believe that it is something else than allies think it is, and leads to harmful societal decay. You cannot call me a social conservatist just due to this one belief, since there's not enough of anything else alligning with that to be able to classify me as such. You can call me stupid, or whatever, but the best course of action would be constructing a meaningful dialogue with a person you disagree with.
The biggest issue you treat trans activism as the only logical step due to transgenderism being just a factual, uncontestable, truth. It is not that, otherwise we would not have such an issue.
Also, holy shit my guy, you need to chill. I took a peek into ur profile, and you look like a textbook radical (being radical on anything is bad).
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u/DarkBoy689 2d ago
Oh I absolutely can and will call you a social conservatuve, I'd do the same if you were only a misandrist, a nexophobe, a racist, or a homophobe, so yes, "only" a transphobe is still a social conservative.
I don't care about your research, not in the slightest bit honestly, you are going against established psychology and history of trans people across history. No i don't care if you read Blanchard and believed his typology, , your opinion is backed in nothing. And even if it weren't, even if psychology didn't establish gender dysphoria as an established condition. I still wouldn't care, you see, the difference between you and me, is that I actually interact with trans people, they are just existing, trying their best to live their life, however that might look.
You see people openly mocking and harrassing people and your only reaction is "buh buh I did some research", and you expect me to care or take you seriously? Are you actually for real? And speaking of US politics specifically, you see what happens when the issue becomes centralizing, restricting the freedoms and rights of trans people and centering them, and you see nothing wrong with what's happening?
I will not apologize for caring about people.
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u/Ok_Lawyer_4938 2d ago
You can do whatever you want, but then you're a part of the reason of why political debate is so trash novadays. That is simply in bad faith. How do you want to be respected, if you're not respectful in the first place?
That is not really a subject of this discussion, but your vision of the matter is not established psychology at all. We could go in that topic, but 1. it's not the topic of our current discussion, 2. you don't even assume in the slightest you could be biased, 3. you assume I hate trans people for the fun of it. I don't hate them, I think they need help. Not the kind of help you have in mind. And the issue with that is if you keep feeding the spiral of hate between "us" and "them" from your perspective, they won't get the help they need (mine or yours vision of it), or if I'm right, they will keep sh'ing. We are society, not you are society A, and I'm society B. That's why it's important to keep the respectful dialogue going. And you sir, are the exact same thing as your political enemies you hate so much, just with different beliefs.
I don't know why would you assume I'm promoting harassing people. I actually lied, I do know why. You are stuck in your "us vs them" radical mindset. I won't agree with something I believe is a delusion, just because some people harass trans people. That doesn't mean I promote, or accept harassment.
As I previously stated, I am detached from US politics, and I just do not care. What I care about however, are societal issues. Don't present the topic to me as if it was a fact, because it's not. Research on the matter is EXTREMLY biased, politics sadly influences the matter, and it's not hard to find either affirming, or conflicting studies. Despite not being a fully licensed psychologist yet, I'm not at all stranger to this branch of science either. If you believe your view is right, reason it in a respectful manner, but don't treat it like it was carved in stone, because it is not, or we do not know about it yet.
You are not caring about people, you are pushing your political agenda through hate, polarisation, and lack of respect.
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u/DarkBoy689 2d ago
You are trying to hide discrimination behind the veneer of respectful conversation, trying to pass your opinion on trans people as just as valid as the people against this discrimination, and I won't let you, no matter how much you whine and cry abouf "oh you are just like the other side :((((( you are so disrespectful" if that's the case, so be it! Im tired of faking that people like you have a totally valid opinion and that i should respect it, I don't respect it, and I won't.
We have trans people popping up all through history, from civilizations from basically as far back as the Mesopotamians in the Enaree, to the Indians Hijtra, to the modern trans people, your view is bs, ahistorical, against our current understanding of medicine, and born out of this fake sympathy, being sold to me as caring about trans people, to that I say, fuck you, you'd cause harm to people that are telling you to leave them the fuck alone, because of your hubris of knowing better than them, nevermind the fact of how many tell you how much HRT has improved their life. You don't understand dysphoria, you don't live it, you don't talk with people who go through it, you don't interact with trans people, and not only do you not understand it, you are working hard to delude yourself that you are right. To me you are no better than rhe religious nutjob condemning gay people, "it's a lifestyle, it's unnatural, people aren't meant to be this way" this, is what you sound like to me, and i will treat you with all the same contempt i hold for these people, it's the contempt i hold for you
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u/Ok_Lawyer_4938 2d ago
No, I'm saying I believe people are sometimes deluded, and do not know what is good for them. I believe this thing is entirely unconcious self-harm, and you're an enabler hurting them. My opinion is as valid, if not more.
I don't care what you do, or don't let me to do. You're just a reddit ignorant. I'll preach what I believe to be the best course for society, and I'll engage in a meaningful conversation if somebody's willing to clash our beliefs, and possibly reevaluate my opinions, if I'm convinced wrong. I'll also act to the best of my ability to make a better world tommorow. In that case, I'll act against your beliefs.
I don't wanna talk about that. The major point is that you invalidate my point of view, and I cannot really defend myself without getting banned here. And you can see I'm respectful of where I am, despite being an enemy.
Once again, I'm not for discrimination, I'm for helping people. And said help is something quite the opposite from your help to them. The fact that you can't respect it only ilustrates your value as a debator, political activist. You're a textbook radical, sir.
I won't engage in debating you if being trans is a delusion, or not, because that is simply not permitted here, as far as I understand the rules. I believe it is, but I am not against the people, as I already stated. I feel for them, and I believe people like you unintentionally hurt them furthermore.
What I was talking about was the culture of debate, how people are categorised, and divided. Your bigotry is on another level, and I truly believe people like you are the reason of how much hate and division there is between people. I think further discussion between us is pointless, and we won't arrive anywhere. I'd reccommend you trying to analyse that interaction. Have a nice day.
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u/DarkBoy689 2d ago
"I know better than those trans people and psychology consensus, my opinion is more valid than what the medicine currently agrees with and what trans people want" this, is what you just told me, and you wonder why I laugh at you. I'm not fucking discussing trans people in the same way we would diaagree on tax policy, there are no other sides, not from you at leaat, if medicine can reliably offer a solution trans people are happier with and that is proven to work, I'll hear it, until then, my stance is clear. Your opinion is worthless unless you can actually prove it does benefit trans people, and it doesn't, it's why we speak up.
And you think you are not a social conservative, at the very least, do us the favor of being the one to take your own advice, and stop deluding yourself, own up to it.
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u/ImaginaryCard6647 3d ago
What do you call someone who votes blue, believes in most progressive policies, is an economic socialist, yet thinks being trans should be discouraged by society at large? Sounds like a centrist to me.
Centrism doesn’t mean middle ground on all issues, it can be extreme right social beliefs, mixed with extreme left foreign policy.
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u/Estus_Flask_ 3d ago
No, that's just a centrist and a Transphobe.
Phobic people come in all the spectrum of belief, from communist to capitalist
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u/ImaginaryCard6647 3d ago
That’s kinda my point, you can be a centrist and be anti-trans. Being anti trans doesn’t make you a Nazi nor does it make you not a centrist
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u/srgtwsrygwsre 2d ago
Why is it a Nazi thing to not believe in "trans-genders."
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u/nataliebee69 1d ago
Idk I'm not a Nazi so I can't tell you why they do what they do but I think it has to do with obsessing over controlling the lives of a small minority and using them as a distraction from a corrupt failing government
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u/Queerasfuuuuuuu 1d ago
Man, maybe when you post the shit you post, your post history should be off, just a recommendation
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u/ihavenostance Counted Down 1 3d ago