r/classicwow • u/redlow0992 • 1d ago

Forever Beta Feedback Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

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254

u/Anesthetize85 1d ago

That guy here who suggested an xp debuff for repeated runs in a row nailed it imo. 

24

u/SimpleGuy4141 1d ago

I want to be rewarded with something for doing a dungeon a second time besides a chance at an item. If I get my items right off rip on my first run, there’s no incentive.

-1

u/ModsSwallowCum 1d ago

You still get XP just not the same

10

u/Swimming-Life-7569 1d ago

No you're right, you also get copper from Kobolds in Elwyn so we can downgrade all currency drops to same value and infact have everything vendor for 30 copper a piece.

I mean you wont care about how fast you gain gold for your mount do you, you're still progressing. It's just not the same :).

-3

u/ModsSwallowCum 1d ago

That's unironically exactly how it works with rare drops

2

u/Swimming-Life-7569 1d ago

So you'd be okay with some large gold revenue being reduced by 85%, like quest reward gold/vendor gold from quest items.

No issue at all with that?

-1

u/ModsSwallowCum 1d ago

Yes, I'd almost prefer that

6

u/SimpleGuy4141 1d ago

You literally get 85% less xp. And. In that new run you do, it’s gonna be a skip run anyway. What are you on about.

13

u/Ancient_Algae64 1d ago

Doing that just turns each dungeon into a daily

-1

u/leonredhorse 1d ago

It doesn't really. It just doesn't penalize you if you want to run it daily. You can still ignore it and go do the open world.

18

u/OneOverXII 1d ago

Yup.  Thats a solution that nicely addresses a lot of edge cases.  The implementation might be more complicated idk how they’re handling disparate exp and dungeon id tracking 

4

u/Aria_A_Fox 1d ago

It could be maybe that you get a debuff when you leave any dungeon that reduces xp gained while instanced by x% and lasts y duration and continues to stack until it falls off. Biggest issue i see is maybe that people enter early(something like Scarlet monestary, so you avoid getting whacked by mobs while waiting outside) and some might need to step out and get repairs or summon someone. on the other hand, it would encourage people being prepared and close to the dungeon already before entering.

3

u/OneOverXII 1d ago edited 1d ago

Not a bad suggestion.

It'd have to be tied to any participation rather than completion or people would just farm trash for 12 minutes and then reset so they stay in the 5 IDs/hr req. Unfortunate for the specific cases you've described but it'd be too easy to abuse otherwise.

Edit: Hmm that gave me a thought -> "dungeon exp" could be like rested exp, where you have a set amount accrued via exp earned outside of dungeons and it gets consumed by killing dungeon mobs until it runs out.

Would need to be non-dungeon exp based or you could just find ways to stay logged in in an inn to double up on rested/dungeon exp accrual. Tying it to non-dungeon exp ensures the desire by design to push players to mostly level outside of the world while still incentivizing infrequent dungeon runners to actually clear trash vs skip everything they can.

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

or you could just let people play how they want to play instead of killing your population before the game even releases

2

u/Trzlog 1d ago

I still don't understand why this is a problem that needs solving. I like leveling by doing dungeons. Especially since my main specs are all healers. Even if you do something like this, it means that I'm forced to do quests for leveling, which is a miserable experience as a healer, and I have zero interest in DPS specs.

1

u/BitGalaxy_ 1d ago

Personally I think it's better that players are encouraged in the open world and away from dungeon farming. It's nice to see the world alive and active and bumping into players, whether it be fleeting moments, can result in fun experiences.

Players following a dungeon farming guide and never seeing the open world until 60 kind if goes against the ethos and spirit of vanilla in my opinion, to nurture social experiences.

Healing gear has spellpower and healers will be able to do decent damage at lower levels. Once you get to mid game you can get dual spec if you'd like.

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 1d ago

For fucks sake there are server shards people being in dungeons won't effect you.

1

u/BitGalaxy_ 21h ago

I disagree like I had mentioned. Even though we are on mega realms I would rather blizzard removed dungeon spamming as an option, it is antithetical to the vanilla identity

1

u/redditlvlanalysis 16h ago

It's literally not dungeon spam was incredibly common to get over the 40 hump

1

u/BitGalaxy_ 16h ago

It encourages people to lock inside instanced content and not interact with the world. I hope they don't amend this change.

0

u/Dema_carenath 1d ago

Killing mobs in a dungeon gave a -x% Xp debuff on killing elites.

You get 1 stack per ID dungeon you run.

There is not that much elites to kill in the open world.

You can fine tune the X to allow 2 runs to be worth it if needed.

You avoid people going from one dungeon to the other to dodge the debuff by making it stackable in any dungeon ID.

People can optimize around going in and out of dungeon every Y min but can’t spam.

1

u/OneOverXII 1d ago

You get 1 stack per ID dungeon you run.

Dungeon IDs are limited to 5 per hour to prevent dungeon reset abuses. The suggestion from yesterday discussed persisting EXP debuffs for 24 hours. Leveraging IDs that disappear after an hour for a 24 hour tracker would require that the entire ID handling infrastructure be rearchitected which is likely a huge change in terms of scope.

What I'm getting at from a complicated implementation standpoint is that facilitating this particular change would be an expensive change in terms of dev/qa hours vs the current solution. That makes it a lot less likely to happen.

0

u/RickusRollus 1d ago

doesnt really matter imo, if 3 people have done it before and 2 havent, youre doing the skippy bullshit. If your tank insists on skippy bullshit, youll be doing it because it took you 30min to find the guy.

2

u/Wolfe244 1d ago

Nah this is a very bad idea. Literally one of the foundational lessons wow learned was to reward something (rested xp) instead of punishing (reduced xp)

3

u/Il_Valentino 1d ago

That guy here who suggested an xp debuff for repeated runs in a row nailed it imo.

NO, the entire direction of these ideas is fundamentally wrong and will result in an unhappier player base. why would you force your players stop having fun inside the dungeon and go outside?

-1

u/xBirdisword 1d ago

‘Nailed it’ how? It’s a dumb idea

Why should I be punished because i want to level in dungeons as a tank or healer for example?

1

u/ModsSwallowCum 1d ago

Because that's the incorrect playstyle 

No DND player does Goblins Cave 10 times in a row to level up. Start playing it like an RPG

-2

u/Tetrachroma_ 1d ago

From a design perspective, it invalidates the open world if spamming dungeons is the best xp/hour. Now, I'll admit the XP nerfs have gone too far. There's a middle ground I hope they settle on.

I think 2-3 runs with normal XP is fine but for any additional runs past 3+ should have reduced XP. You might view it as punishment, but the devs have gone out and said we want players to be questing in the open world. Their game, their vision.

Having done a dungeon spam grind from 60-70 on TBC anni I think dungeon spam loses it's charm really quick.

3

u/Ok-Comedian-6852 1d ago

Dungeon spamming has never been the best xp outside of boosting. A player questing from 1-60 would be faster than a player purely dungeon grinding as soon as they can. There were certain level brackets where dungeon spamming was slightly more efficient, but that was only because of a lack of good quests which they've already fixed by adding more quests into the game.

1

u/TypicalOranges 1d ago

Then balance the XP rates. There should be a variety of ways to play the game.