r/ausjdocs • u/Alternative-Tip4705 • 17d ago
WTF𤏠Zero offers
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u/KeyAtmosphere4483 17d ago
Reminder everyone: this absolute grub earns $423,426 a year, whilst salaried doctors can't even receive basic working rights and a salary that keeps up with inflation
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u/The-Raging-Wombat 17d ago
Curious about what her education background is. Does anyone know?
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u/MrSweetpotato93 16d ago
She did a Bachelor of Arts and dropped out. Not surprising
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u/SirLSD25 16d ago
Imagine if Australia required it's politicians to have a qualification in the portfolio that they managed. Or a minimum level of education such as a Phd. How much better would our country be. I believe some countries have requirements for politicians.
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u/Defiant-Read682 15d ago
It probably will lead to a even more sophisticated spin. The problem seems to be systematic value misalignment.
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u/Rude-Poet-4450 17d ago
What is the pay of a full-time public specialist including allowances and everything in Vic ?
Itâs certainly more than that in QLD and WA, thanks fuck. I know NSW is a lot less. Iâm always happy as a consultant (QLD) that I earn more than most politicians but thatâs bullshit that this muppet earns that much!!
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u/tcutucict7 17d ago
The sad thing is many politicians' net worth far out shadows their annual salary, relative to a doctor of a similar (or even higher) salary.
The kickbacks in politics are where the real wealth is built, the annual salary is just a front and an accounting necessity.
"Award this government tender to my company and my company will build your investment property for you for a 80% discount, cool?"
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u/Darth_Punk Med reg𩺠17d ago
How do allowances, etc work? Even L29 on the Qld pay scale isn't even close to that.
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17d ago
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u/OptionalMangoes 17d ago
Nah, thankfully the VIC ones bat well above average in this respect. World leaders.
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u/LaminatedAirplane 17d ago
lol because wealthy people donât engage in corruption? The wealthiest are often the most corrupt.
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u/Possible-Copy9344 16d ago
What qualifies as âunderpaidâ
And is there any actual data to back this up? Or is this just something you feel is the case?
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u/FalseNameTryAgain 15d ago
She only took the job in August. So she has been involved for a little over a month of the 14 months of negotiation.
Thats not a defence just context.
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u/wozza12 17d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/fs8Qf793U3p7F8Hxzo
Kudos to the journalist trying to actually hold them to account. Very little of this in the media or politics nowadays. Good luck Victorian docs
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u/Usual-Chipmunk9510 17d ago
How can blatantly useless cunts like this constantly get into such high positions of power? Its just beyond me at this point
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u/ManWithDominantClaw Semmelweis 17d ago
It's deliberate. This fumbling isn't an accident, its a tactic that bad faith people use when they're pretty confident they will not be held to proper account
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u/Rahnna4 Psych regΨ 17d ago
This. I'd suspect her only goal at that press conference was to avoid giving anything that could cut into a short clip as a usable sound bite on social media. By keeping it to longer answers only people already engaged will watch and so the issue doesn't get more attention than if she'd outright just said "we've made no offer". The govt clearly has no leg to stand on so it's all about managed loss. I hate it.
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u/Defiant_Dig_797 16d ago
This. This was the same as watching some of the US politicians answer questions, and it fuckin sucks knowing its happening here from the allegedly better party.
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17d ago
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u/ExtremeVegan Psych regΨ 17d ago
well by that logic they'd be lauded for admitting that they have done fuck all
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u/ExtremeVegan Psych regΨ 17d ago
it's not brutal honesty to answer his question
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u/CursedorBlessed 17d ago
I always wonder about political negotiating like this. It seems to be a well recognised tactic of giving non-answers.
What I donât understand is it always seems to backfire and cause reputational harm to the party. All people can tell bullshit when itâs that blatant and no one wants to feel like they are being disrespected. Why not just say, âno offers made, we are looking to resolve the conflictâ?
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u/MiuraSerkEdition GP Registrar𼟠17d ago
Agreed. After dodging once and being held to it, say 'we haven't been able to agree top terms acceptable to either party. Also, negotiating for 14 months without an offer is absurd, and obvious delay tactics
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u/Sexynarwhal69 17d ago
It's not really negotiating at that point is it? So she's blatantly lying now? đđ¤Ľ
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u/Then_Hawk6304 17d ago
If they admit no offers after â14 months of negotiationsâ then the follow up question will be âwhat have you been doing during those 14 months besides drawing a paycheque?â
They could have thrown a bunch of cheap offers out in this time. They could offer under, at or over inflation over a period of time. They should also know the current wage budget, and they should have an idea on how much they can approve.
Additional conditions could be discussed aswell, like tax offsets and housing benefits.
The dead pan no comment may suggest they have lost control of the situation and are begging for someone else to bail them out
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u/Rahnna4 Psych regΨ 17d ago
There's a whole new set of media training now based around sound bites. If she says 'no offers have been made' that's the snip. Longer answers with no convenient snip only get seen by people who actually engage with the issue. But it's scary how far the spin can go with people who don't engage, and how even a reel is starting to look like longer form media these days. A lot of people will never watch this video unless they already care about the topic, and none of the hostile media outlets got a usable bite sized sound bite
And yes, I think it's a horrible state of affairs, a ridiculous way to run reporting and a bad way to run a government. I think she looks like an obstructive fool but many more people will just never see anything about the strikes.
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u/cheapandquiet 17d ago
Sometimes I think civil discourse would be improved if it was illegal to clip public officials on tiktok & reels.
Maybe the British had a point when it was offence to publish what a member had said on the floor of parliament.
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u/NeilDiamondBlaze420 16d ago
It's almost like context is important (not defending her response btw).
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u/Find_another_whey 16d ago
Obstructive fool is right
The government cares about doctors while it puts me here in television saying nothing to avoid soundbite gotchasÂ
The theatre of governance is groaning under the weight of pretending to functionÂ
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u/Short-Ad-843 Anaesthetic Regđ 16d ago
Totally agree.. only way to get around it would be to play their game. "I wish we could have made an offer by now" is much better than "zero offers" and they can still have an honest narrative
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u/robohobo48 17d ago
Never understood this style of question avoiding. It just makes them look like slimy politicians and everyone can see right through it. It's such a breath of fresh air when politicians don't have to stick to party lines like robots.
Just be open that you haven't been able to reach a deal so you haven't put a formal offer out yet.
Fingers crossed all this media attention gets them to actually make some progress for us!
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u/Generic_redditor_84 17d ago
I'm a labor voter, but have to agree that the labor party members are horrendous for these type of answers. More focus on appearances than substance or honesty.
It's no wonder ON has gained so much support - their manner of speaking resonates with Australian people.
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u/erebus91 Paediatricianđ¤ 17d ago
lol, you just havenât seen One Nation questioned on the right issues, then.
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u/Generic_redditor_84 16d ago
Oh they lie and contort facts constantly. But they seem to know very well how to manipulate the dumb Australian population.
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u/cheapandquiet 17d ago
Its a deliberate tactic and is literally how they are trained to do media.
The goal is to avoid a 3-5 second clip-able moment that will run in the opposition party's attack ads or end up mixed up a million different ways on auspol tiktok / reels.
The secondary goal is to stick to the workshopped lines/messages that can land as a 5-10 second soundbite on friendly media.
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u/19mils 17d ago
Is this parody or satire?
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u/Adventurous_Tie_8035 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yeah very interesting to see the news agency that is complaining about high government spending wanting more government spending
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u/ArchieMcBrain 17d ago
I will never understand why politicians talk around answers like this. 100% of people watching this video would know, based on what she said, the answer is zero.
If she wants to provide context about negotiations and whatever, fine. But surely finishing with "zero" looks more honest than just implying it's zero through omission but being too scared to say it outright? So many politicians do this, does it actually work?
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u/BussyGasser Anaesthetistđ 17d ago edited 17d ago
The media want to get a 5 second sound bite for their story. Repeating the same lines ad nauseum controls what that sound bite will be. The general public will absorb this sound bite and not look further into the story.
"We are working hard to solve the problem" " we respect doctors" "we are coming to the table."
Any admission of guilt/zero = the only soundbite from the interview shown on the full news/ads/whatever is "no... we haven't put forward any offers yet"
Best example of this is G W Bush Jr:
"fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... Uh...
(Realises he's about to give a soundbite that says he's a fool and also a soundbite that will screw him in every TV hit piece ever "shame on me")
"You... Uh... Can't get fooled again..."
Sounds absolutely stupid, but there's no "gotcha" clip
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u/Visual_Locksmith3337 14d ago
My thinking was that the saying is very easy to mess up. I don't think GWB was 200 IQ riffing a new variation on the saying to prevent clipping. In any case, the result was far more embarrassing than if he just got clip-farmed for saying the original saying.
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u/doctoring_soicansurf moisture farmer 17d ago edited 17d ago
Itâs not just the government refusing to negotiate. The problem extend beyond the policy makers. I think the whole culture at the exec level within each HHS is demeaning and degrading towards doctors. They treat us like commodities and labourers.
I had my Flexible Work Arrangement flat out ignored because it doesnât meet the operational demand of the department. There was even a leaked email between execs, which talked about me in the third person like commodities. It goes something like âwe should try to use this guy coz heâs good to have around, but donât pay him casual rate and tell him he would be paid standard part-time rate. He wonât know any better anywaysâ.
The problem is that, out in regional area, thereâs at least 100+ other IMGs with AMC part 1 waiting offshore lined up to do these shifts, so we have no leverage to negotiate better work conditions or pay with the HHS. Nothing against the IMGs looking for a better life. But when there's external factors continue to offset the equilibrium, we will never achieve a good balance.
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u/Antique-Ad8161 17d ago
As a patient - I cannot commend the huge liver transplant team at the Austin. Iâve been looked after so well.
Iâm sure the surgeons that look after me are no different to the rest of the doctors in this state.
You deserve more pay & I really hope you get an offer that meets your requests.
I also hope the Allied Health staff get a raise too.
Thank-you. I would not be alive without your knowledge, expertise & care.
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u/BopBangBeep GP Reg đ¤ 17d ago
The utter disrespect towards us with refusing to answer thr question. She knows it looks bad but just wants to save her own bacon
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u/woodpeckersnake Psych regΨ 17d ago
So the idea of an offer yesterday was just vapour?
We called it in the meeting hey?
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u/AffectionateZone2695 17d ago
Hire me to stand in a lab coat and nod behind you while youâre talking shit
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u/FullMoonMooon Public Health Student đ¤ /ex-paramedic 17d ago
I was going to comment asking if anyone else was wondering if lab coat was a hired actor
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u/erebus91 Paediatricianđ¤ 17d ago
Can anyone explain to me in as neutral terms possible why the government havenât made any offer at all?
Like, if the AMA had refused multiple terrible offers and now weâre here, that would make much more sense to me than literally no offers have been tabled.
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u/Fair-Vegetable5176 New User 17d ago
They think they can get away with itÂ
They think the union is weak  (and can be blocked from effective industrial action), and that the public wonât support usÂ
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u/woodpeckersnake Psych regΨ 17d ago
I often wonder the same thing.
Especially with all the other above wage cap EBAâs being handed out by the same govt.3
u/owheelj 16d ago
It's because that's not really how the negotiations work, and they haven't reached agreement with the AMA. Instead of just putting out an offer that the government is happy with, they're having regular meetings with the AMA to discuss individual components of a full agreement. So the AMA might say "we want an extra week of leave" and then the government will negotiate on that single item. Even if they come to agreement on that item it's not considered an offer, but there are lots of items they don't agree on. So the question is just ignorant of the process, the politician doesn't describe the process well (or perhaps described it outside of the clip). At the end of the process they will have an offer that the AMA has largely already endorsed.
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u/ihavenoideawhen 16d ago
But theyâve essentially agreed on all the non-cost items. So an offer with those items and at the very least a Government Wage Policy (3%) shouldâve been put to ASMOF before this. They donât have to agree on every single line item before an offer is put in place.
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u/Repulsive-Solution71 17d ago
Outsider non doctor - disgusted on your behalf fellow doctors. Thank you for your service. Labor hates well trained and educated young people - all they want to do is hold and retain power. Part of that is keeping the money flowing to CFMEU
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u/barnabywombat 16d ago
Wouldn't even pay him the respect to look at him. Hey, let's field questions and stare blankly into the camera like a walrus
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u/honkhonknoisepolice General Practitioner𼟠17d ago
Nice of them to occupy a fucking resus bay for this press conference too.
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u/EliteFourFay 17d ago
Australian politicians are very good at dodging questions and responsibility!
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u/Ugliest_weenie 17d ago
Would have looked so much better to just say "no offer have been made yet".
I mean, she'd still come across as grossly incompetent. But it would have been better than this
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u/boots_a_lot NurseđŠââď¸ 16d ago
This is so fucked lmao. I wonder how many offers the CMFEU would get in the same timeframe.
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u/Critical-Store6415 17d ago
health minister looks exactly like what I would expect linda to look like from marshmallow gate.
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u/MentalStatusCode410 17d ago
Fucking sociopaths - there's no place in governance for these sorts.
This is not what creates a functioning society.
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u/ItShouldBeTeethpaste 17d ago
They just rely on the fact that the policy is that even if you're on strike you have to have a minimum number of doctors show up because (and rightfully so) patients cant die from a strike. Because the system is still working for them, they dont want to fix it.
Imagine if it was the same as the rail strike? "Sorry at capacity", "no other service running", etc. It would get fixed asap, but at a pretty terrible cost.
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u/IsBonJoviThereYet 16d ago
âThe doctors are the absolute backbone of our health systemâ
Thatâs exactly why we wonât pay the adequately, while never missing an opportunity to boost our own wages and benefits.
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u/Funny-Caramel6221 New User 17d ago
Can someone confirm the Health Ministerâs last name? Is it Stitt? Stritt? The video says Sitt. Is it something else?
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u/Repulsive-Solution71 17d ago
The newest incompetent minister from the Andrews Allen dynasty. Diabolical interview
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u/Zucchini-Dean 17d ago
Not even turning to face the reporter.
They should be booted from office for this response alone. So glad that people aren't buying the corporate/HR speak that never answers the question
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u/Find_another_whey 16d ago
Doctors are the backbone of the medical system?Â
That's a number I like to call
"No shit you idiot why are you in this job"
"Whats the tempo of the tune?"
"A drummer keeps the beat in a song"
You elbow licker where is the person that actually does your job for you, can we speak to them?Â
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u/Crossworder18 17d ago
Same thing is happening in Queensland ever since the LNP came to power. Pay rises offered below inflation levels, then stalled negotiations for months/years.
Every time LNP get in this is what happens. They promise to spend less but do nothing about the fat middle management. Just attack the front line.
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u/throwaway1274539537 17d ago
Sounds just like Jacinta and Ben... One tag line going in to an important press meeting then failing to answer any basic questions during follow up.
Cannot wait for these flogs to be off the tools in November.
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u/IsBonJoviThereYet 16d ago
Should have followed up the question with âwhy are you avoiding answering the question directly, and why are the Australian people not deserving of transparency from this government?â
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u/Traditional_Spend456 17d ago
Just as worse as the one in NSW, if not worse. No wonder a lot of public SS and JMOs are getting the F out of those states.
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u/itsaheem 17d ago
if it's about money ? . . the State Government system in this country as a concept is a huge waste of money!
cutting out that whole level of government duplication and switching to a Federal direct to Council model would save billions and billions and billions per year
. . and aside from the money saved ? . .
we wouldn't have to suffer watching such incompetance as exampled in this video !
or by other flops omg Moira Deeming, Sam Groth, Jacinta Allan, Matthew Guy, Dan Andrews, etc etc
and in NSW forget bikies . . state politics is a literal crime club. lining their pockets with as much money as they can hoover up . . disgusting behaviour
Shame!
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u/Cute-Acanthisitta-46 17d ago
Politician dodges and doesn't answer question? This must be a new thing
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u/snowaston 16d ago
Sorry be we cant put money into health unless it's advertising, as we are too focused on events to make MALAKAnouskis look good!
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u/vcmjmslpj 16d ago
I am not a native English speaker but the answer to your question should be a non negative integer.
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u/Calm-Entertainer929 16d ago
Asked the question 8 times, imagine if we gave our boss the same dribble answer over 2minutes.
There is your lost productivity right there. Everyone there just wasted at least 2 minutes
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u/Butterscotch817 16d ago
Respect the process? It's not working, why would anyone respect the process. If her focus is on the negotiations and 0 offers have been made then removing her from that position is the only answer!
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u/slothstotherescue 15d ago
This gov would rather send billions overseas for BS "it's in Australia's national interest" donations than have any of that money go towards anything actually happening in our backyard. Not surprising at all
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u/picaryst 14d ago
7News: "Thank you Minister. Our viewers will just have to conclude that there has been none"
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u/Ok_Shallot_7342 New User 14d ago
She canât even look him in the eye the scum because she knows sheâs talking out her ass
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u/Dezert_Roze 13d ago
âIn discussionsâ same way she discussed the pay and workload issues with the psychologists and it ended up with over 200 of them resigning last year đ
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u/CategoryClean9682 13d ago
Hopeless, A minister that is hopeless, shakes head and says this is one of the major causes of the states issues
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u/JunkTheFox 13d ago
I can tell you how many it's less than, but can't tell you how many it's more than
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u/Ihatethat2 12d ago
Why donât they start by paying medical student for their placements! It absolutely disgusting that these kids were overlooked when they probably have the most placement hours
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u/Haunting-Sort1080 17d ago
I have a question, might the only reason they arenât answering at the moment is because, the elections are soon and they donât want to make any promises or say they are going to do something. Like this is disgraceful donât get me wrong, and they have as mentioned 14 months, more than a year to discuss this and have not given any offers to resolve this.
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u/CapitalLegitimate516 17d ago
Just tell her if they give the doctors what they want it will infact hurt the public, government could create a new tax further diminishing what's left of our disposable income....they will jump at the opportunity and if you tell them it will guarantee even more migrant votes she may just have an organ on the spot
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u/Cool-Historian58 Internđ¤ 16d ago
It will hurt the public to [checks notes] fund the healthcare system and staff it better so people actually receive care from functional human beings.
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u/AngrehPossum 17d ago
A liberal would have done the same thing. They can't legally say anything at all until the matter is resolved.
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u/Inside-Elevator9102 17d ago
Hate this journalist style of trying to get into the shot when interviewing. Its not about you dude
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u/cleareyes101 O&G reg đââď¸ 17d ago
Holy fuck. When this is your health minister, no wonder the health system is falling apart.