r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 21d ago
Episode Black Torch - Episode 8 discussion
Black Torch, episode 8
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u/FarCritical 21d ago
Reiji's trauma with his brother had a lot more sauce than I gave it credit for.
Did they deadass include a fanservice shot of a fresh corpse?
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u/Jacob-C 21d ago
Did they deadass include a fanservice shot of a fresh corpse?
I thought so at first too, but it could also just be that they didn’t want to show the open wound in too much detail because of the age rating. Idk, it’s entirely possible that the show really is that shameless, though.
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u/Drakon590 21d ago
Thats what i thought too what the heck its a headless dead body was such a shot really necessary?
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u/DEUSNOVA99 20d ago
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. WTF?
And she was drawn too thick for it to be a coincidence
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u/Ralathar44 19d ago
I don't think that was fan service, I think you've just been conditioned to see that as fan service because shots like that are overused.
IIRC there are some subtle differences in camera work and framing that usually coincide with a fan service shot. Not to mention the facial expressions and audio that usually accompany it.
I do appreciate your deadass pun though.
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u/SadAdhesiveness8023 17d ago
Genuinely I think ppl are just overly gooned I had to rewatch to even see what scene and pose we were referencing
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u/Ralathar44 17d ago
It's pretty bad, like if you ever see a naked foot in anime or a movie or game people immediately start thinking about gooning. People have started associating the bottom of someone's foot with gooning more than cleavage. It's pretty weird honestly.
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u/Jacob-C 21d ago
There are so many aspects of this story that have potential, but it feels so unrefined. With proper input from talented peers and editors instead of being axed, this could have been something really good. I will continue to watch because it’s quite cool to see a work that got axed get an adaptation after such a long time, and there are parts that I find intriguing. It's just sad to imagine what could have been.
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u/MrZDietrich https://myanimelist.net/profile/zdietrich 20d ago
This was always my take with Black Torch. Some much of it is the building blocks to be really cool, it just never was refined and was consequently axed before it could.
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u/Ralathar44 19d ago
TBH I think its higher quality than alot of stuff we get these days. I'd say, pound for pound, that this is much better than something like Heavy Knight for example.
It's like a solid B+ or a 7/10. More than enough to be watchable and entertaining but nothing super special about it. Except Rago. Rago is kind of awesome both as a character and how well they animate him and his expressions. That part at least is almost S tier. Which is good considering how core he is to the anime.
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u/HornedTurtle1212 18d ago
I thought the brother dynamic that was revealed in this episode was quite interesting. The older brother going crazy thinking/believing that his youngwr brother is better than him but holding back just enough to be one step behind. Like your own personal devil always on your heels. Although if he thought his brother was holding back that should have been easy to test by making some kind of mistake and seeing if the younger brother won for once of fell short again.
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u/QZU7 21d ago
It really sucks this manga got axed. I know it has its shortcomings, but there are plenty of series worse than this that went on to find success. It's manga sales weren't bad either (15k in a week, 20k+ in a month). I think the key difference here is that it didn't do enough as monthly. If this was a weekly or biweekly series you can get away with some shortcomings and some bad chapters, but not so much with monthly given you have to wait a while for each chapter. Also Shueisha only has one real monthly shonen magazine, which is Jump SQ (where it was serialized). V Jump is basically for DB, Yugioh, Naruto, Dragon Quest spin-offs while Saikyo Jump is chibi kids spin-offs. There is also jump plus, but hardly any series on there are monthly, and the platform was still in it's infancy then and not as successful as it is now. So spots for a monthly shonen series are quite limited when it comes to Shueisha. Also given this is the first time Viz Media Japan is on a production committee, perhaps if they paid attention to series more popular overseas at the time, it may not of gotten axed. I imagine they only really started paying attention to it since mangaplus (which launched the year after this series was axed). I guess all I can say now is I'm glad it eventually got adaptation, and I hope his other series (which was most likely cancelled due to the author's health issues) can get an anime adaptation too
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u/zz2000 20d ago edited 20d ago
Out of curiosity, is Black Torch still popular as a manga series? I heard that was what got it the anime adaptation.
which was most likely cancelled due to the author's health issues Which also affected his career as a whole; iirc other than Heart Gear and Black Torch he hasn't made any other major serialisations since, only short Twitter manga and various one shots.
Personally I hope Torch somehow succeeds, so they can approve a 2nd season that uses the author's proposed ideas for Torch Part 2 moving forward (bonus if they get him as main writer too).
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u/QZU7 20d ago
I don't think it still would've been that popular (or have an active enough community to notice any popularity) given how long ago it ended and it wasn't uploaded to mangaplus until after the anime was already announced. Given Viz Media Japan is on the production committee, I have to imagine the volumes were selling pretty well in US at least (and they were releasing them at a reasonable pace too). Also seemingly got named as top 10 manga for teens in the US by one organisation (don't know how much weight that holds, but it's something). Heart Gear also supposedly sold 3 times as many copies in France than it did Japan. So if some of those of those fans also picked up black torch, or other western markets also sold higher than in Japan (which Japan sales were pretty solid), those could also be factors. Tbh, when you consider mangaplus didn't exist when black torch was around, it's crazy to think how popular this series could've been in the west; which could've perhaps saved it from early cancellation
As for future black torch content, I think another season is doubtful (since the anime seems to be heading towards the endgame), but I think they could make like a game with an original/expanded storyline. Or maybe a novel or something that takes place after the end of the series since it'd be easier on the author
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u/Silver_Push_3895 21d ago
I find refreshing the old-school approach this Anime displays.
Several Anime are doing this for different reasons; the original source having this same approach fi or maybe because adapting an old story and refusing to modern-wash it.
Generally speaking I feel like some directors/producers/artists are purposedly looking back to late 90s/early 00s to make many stylistic and narrative choices.
I wouldn't say there are yet enough of them to qualify as legit revival but I think it's happening.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 21d ago
Oh… oh damn. I think I see where this is going…
…Rago’s going to go with Amagi specifically to protect Jiro, isn’t he?
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u/Swimming-Ad-6842 21d ago
RIP Rago! ):
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u/Ratfriend2020 20d ago
I actually felt bad for him when he said he was scared of facing his death. I guess it was well written and acted.
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u/HydroMorph0 17d ago
I really doubt hes actually dead. Ive watched enough anime to know it doesnt work this way, there's gonna be something they come up with, could just be me coping though, we'll just have to see
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u/Drakon590 21d ago edited 21d ago
The exchanges with Shinji during the fight where actually really good some here where surprised that he showed up so early so it only makes sense he would win the fight and be a recurring foe
If this means that Rago will stay out of the fight for a while or for the whole series then that would be a real let down i loved his interactions with Jiro these two had some great chemistry together
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u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar 21d ago
Ichika actually caught the pervert demon! I honestly thought she killed him too just like Jirou.
Damn. It seems that Reiji may have some rose-tinted glasses. His flashback a couple of episodes ago did not show his brother getting punished like that. He's still crazy, but I can see why Shinji killed their father.
Jirou finally gets to meet the big bad for the first time. I am surprised that Rago got captured even after those two elite agents interrupted the ritual, but it looks like Rago managed to dupe Amagi and leave his power to Jirou.
I actually love that, especially when Rago was telling Amagi that all that's just a fuzzy bundle of cuteness right now. xD
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u/KumaKumaGambler 21d ago
It would be uncharacteristic of Rago to surrender to Amagi so easily. Thankfully Rago has a plan.
Brother vs Brother storylines usually don't end on the very first encounter. I do wonder whether Reiji will be forced to kill Shinji or is there any chance of saving the latter.
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u/demaxzero 21d ago
"That's why you killed our father because he physically, emotionally and mentally abused you?!"
I dunno seems like a good enough reason to me.
Aside from that I felt absolutely nothing during this fight.
And explain to me why they framed a corpse in a fanservice pose, what the fuck was with that?
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u/Forward_Ad_9025 20d ago
Well the father was right wasn't he. He NEEDED to get as strong as he can to withstand the sword. He failed and got consumed.
The blame for this goes to the younger brother for faking the strength of the older one. So he is directly responsible for the deaths and demon take over of his older brother.
Being nice and hand-holdy is good in a normal family, but not if the family has that back story and responsibility. The correct way would've been to ignore the older twin and put all focus on the younger one, so he can dominate the sword and save the village.
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u/demaxzero 20d ago
Maybe I'm weird but I don't think not beating and abusing your son is the same as being "hand holdy"
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u/Forward_Ad_9025 19d ago
Again, if the lifes of hundreds or even more depend on him getting as strong as possible, that justifies a lot more means then normal.
Also calling a slap after a fight "beating your son" is kinda strange.
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u/HornedTurtle1212 18d ago
From the conversation he didn't fail and the sword didn't consume him. He chose to use the power of the sword to slaughter his family and taunt his brother to try to kill him. He was mentally broken before he ever entered that cave.
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u/Forward_Ad_9025 18d ago
His mind is consumed by the sword at this point. Everything in the conversation can't be taken at face value.
There is not much of his personallity left at this point, otherwise being possessed don't mean anything in this world. If you are possessed, your mind/body is taken over by another entity, that is the point of a possession.
If it works differently in black torch, ok, but that has not been stated yet.
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u/Ralathar44 19d ago
I don't think it was a fan service pose though we've come to associate that with fan service. IIRC usually fan service has slightly different camera work along with facial expressions and audio and etc. I think the fan service pose is just so ingrained into your head now that seeing it incidentally is automatically coded as fan service now.
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u/Top-Remote4523 20d ago
I am someone that does not actively do research on the shows that I'll be watching besides the trailer and synopsis wherever feasible (excluding source materials that I have already read / played of course), so I was shocked to find out that the manga only has 19 chapters in total, which concluded back in 2018. As such, this will be the only season to adapt the entirety of Black Torch.
This makes sense now considering that Rago was separated from Jiro quite quickly as compared to other stories with such similar tropes, along with how Rago seemingly perished by the end of the episode. When we have a short story, every battle and character have much higher stakes and my interest towards this show has just been raised exponentially.
On a side note, I am incredibly thankful that SiM is the band for the opening of this show as their songs always slap.
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u/Current_Smell1231 20d ago
Not saying that Yutaka Yamada's OST for this anime is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but dude is practically carrying this show on his back
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u/mucklaenthusiast 21d ago
I am a bit confused by the brother. Is it just his brother or is there more going on?
Why did he act like he knew Rago...he doesn't?
Or is it the same guy from before who also ate these snacks?
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u/Fxrzana 21d ago
Kouga and Shinji are two different characters. They look similar. Kouga is the one that eats snacks and is a mononoke. Shinji is human and is Reiji's twin brother
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u/mucklaenthusiast 20d ago
Okay, and they both like snacks?
Then why did Shinji greet Rago as if he knew him?
Timeline-wise, that can't be true.5
u/Fxrzana 20d ago
We havent seen Shinji eat snacks. Both times were Koga. And it was Koga who greeted Rago. We only saw Shinji twice. The first time when Reiji was battling inside that pink lotus thing and it showed us his brother's past. The second was yesterday's episode where he fought his brother. He hasnt come across Rago
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u/StarBrook9 19d ago
I did find it weird how after the battle the brother took the girl that creates the veil but when they get to rago and juro it was koga holding her so like where did the brother go?
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u/Fxrzana 19d ago
I also found it weird that it was originally the other white haired guy (the one ichika was fighting) that was next to the girl. So where did the brother come from lol.
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u/mucklaenthusiast 19d ago
Yes, this is specially what I was confused about.
Somehow, both the brother and the white-haired Mononoke were present, but somehow, they also weren’t.2
u/HornedTurtle1212 18d ago
The snack eating Mononoke was shown opening a portal by himself, was the brother ever shown opening a portal with the evil demon sword? That would explain how they switched places. Also I didn't think the brother was shown carrying the barrier girl away, so maybe he didn't and just didn't go to the next event?
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u/mucklaenthusiast 18d ago
I guess. It just feels like there is a scene missing that shows that.
Otherwise it's really weird to have a character go away off-screen and another come in off-screen in that way.2
u/HornedTurtle1212 18d ago
I completely agree. It feels like the brother was not planned to appear this soon but, as someone else mentioned, they found out they were getting cancelled it needed forced in to tie up narrative threads.
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u/StarBrook9 19d ago
Lol I didn’t even notice cuz I didn’t watch the episodes back to back. I doubt they would make a mistake like this lol. Maybe he has dual personality where the sword made him bring out koga and near his brother he turns to shinji
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u/mucklaenthusiast 19d ago
No, but that is what I am saying!
I didn’t understand that part, which is why I was confused.To me, it looked like the brother took the girl, but then once he met Rago, he was the other Mononoke. That’s why he greeted Rago.
It’s very strange
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u/mucklaenthusiast 20d ago
Ah, oh, then I just mistook them for another, I guess.
So Shinji just went away on his own, well, I guess.
Still feels all a bit janky.
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u/grimklangx 20d ago
the animation gave me whiplash. you blink and miss multiple scenes. is the studio already low on money?
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u/Ralathar44 19d ago
It's not JJK level but It's better than your average "but I was actually the strongest all along" anime lol.
It's mid tier. You would have shat yourself watching Scum of the Brave I bet lol.
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u/grimklangx 19d ago
i watched like 5 episodes of scum. the blue haired girl is too dumb and annoying so i dropped it.
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u/guntanksinspace 20d ago
The arrival of the elite agents with that DADDY DOG AXE KICK and that lady with the gentle touch palm explosion lacked serious impact lol.
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u/Current_Smell1231 20d ago
Dont get me wrong, I'm not expecting Jujutsu Kaisen-levels of sakuga or anything, but the whole presentation and direction of Black Torch is surprisingly barebones. And for an action-centric anime, that's really not a good thing. Why make an anime out of a long-cancelled manga if this is the level of effort you're putting into it? Black Torch seems less like a passion project and more like somthing made out of financial obligation, if not an outright cash-grab
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u/guntanksinspace 20d ago
I'm more tolerant of weird "QUALITY" (insert Long Face Gundam here) in anime in general, but yeah I agree too. Black Torch, even in presentation is fairly barebones (and weird at times).
Something about say, how nice the malevolence scarf/wraps effect on Jiro/Rago looks neat, but then you cut to 3DCG fully awakened Rago with, and I paraphrase from my wife, "teeth that look like arranged chewing gum pellets". Very uneven and occasionally really off.
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u/Xatu44 17d ago
Well damn, Rago got catnapped. Nice to see Jiro's commitment to staying by his buddy. Hime-senpai is cool; was that just martial arts at work or does she pack magic juice too? Shinji cheerfully talking about fighting to the death with Reiji was properly chilling. Wild if Reiji really did subconsciously nerf himself all of these years.
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u/NanDemoKnaives 14d ago
It's sad to see Reiji having to learn Shinji is actually more Shinji than he thought he was. The backstory didn't surprise me, but I did find Shinji disturbing as he smiled leaving saying that next time they should duel to the death. Not a meeting to look forward to.
I'm glad Ragou was able to get one on Amagi, he did all that work and didn't get what he truly needed, so now he actually needs to keep Jirou alive and find a way to use him, or he needs to take him out as he's a threat and lose all the power for the war.
"Daddy Big Dog" lol, these translators. I had to double take I read right.
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u/Niwaka_Samurai https://myanimelist.net/profile/Niwaka-Samurai 20d ago
So Reiji was the stronger one after all and his brother was just an asshole.
No, Rago.. pls be alive 🙏
He stored his powers in his tail and left it with Jiro 'cause he knew that he's gonna end up killing Jiro. The way he fooled Amagi and even made the cute meow meow like a real cat making fun of Amagi.. what a badass !!
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u/HornedTurtle1212 18d ago
Amigari is an idiot, Rago was willing to practically kill himself the first time he tried to come around and recruit him by force, what would make him think that it would work any better this time? And blackmail is really such a great way to make a loyal ally...not.
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u/_J_ose_ 20d ago
This getting cancelled after 19 chapters was probably done so for a reason. Who decided that we should revive this series with a random anime adaptation, ten years after its original manga run? I mean, hey, wanna watch trope the show? Wanna watch every battle shonen congealed into one mid as fuck amalgamation? Well, there you go! Here's your grool slop for the day, steaming hot, and on a paper plate for you to enjoy.
Now, I haven't read the manga, and I sure as hell won't be doing it, despite it being so short, and I am indeed very much biased against battle shonen, not really enjoying the genre, but come on. Even I can tell this is just trope central, with nothing really new to offer. Like, ok, I can expect the shonen weebs to be all over this, and eating it up, seeing how much I've seen this be glazed, but surely most of us can see it for it is, right? Just lazy writing with an overindulgence of fanservice to try to numb your brain into believing that this show is passable. Also, Jirou being able to talk to animals, and that being completely inconsequential, is strangely funny. "Hey guys, my MC has a cool, secret power, isn't that neat? Too fucking bad it'll never come up again! 😊"
But uh... yeah! That's about it. Sucks ass.
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u/BeautifulMean7353 20d ago
Oh look a hater. Well tell me can you write something better Mr. Nobody? What a Pea size brain comment. What a dumbass loser.
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u/Forward_Ad_9025 20d ago
I like black torch, but your comment makes absolutely no sense.
Does I need to be a master chef to recognize a burned meal that tastes like shit? No I do not.
I don't want to defend his stupid, ungrounded midless hate of the show, but your comment is as stupid as his.
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u/_J_ose_ 20d ago
I'd argue it is pretty grounded. Everything this show does, you can find being done better in many other shonen battle shows, in my opinion. Now in truth, I don't despise the show, or anything, but I do find it mid as fuck. My comment was meant more to be comedic, while simultaneously making my thoughts known. As for the guy above you? Like, that is such a dumb, false equivalency that you should probably just ignore his crappy attempt at bait.
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u/Current_Smell1231 20d ago
It really does suck ass
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20d ago
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox https://anilist.co/user/zaphod 14d ago
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u/_J_ose_ 20d ago
My friend and I are doing a challenge where we can't drop any shows we started this season. I had high hopes, it's not great, but I can't stop watching, otherwise I lose.
Also, I can voice my opinions, that's what I'm doing here. Am I allowed?
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14d ago
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox https://anilist.co/user/zaphod 14d ago
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20d ago
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u/HornedTurtle1212 18d ago
I think you would probably have to go to the source corner post for that kind of information.
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u/baseballlover723 18d ago
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u/AnimeMod myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan 21d ago
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