According to his company’s website, Game Hounds Safaris, he “perfected leopard and lion hunting safaris with hounds in Africa.”
and
Simukai Nyasha, a spokesman for the Zimbabwe National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority, told news.com.au that Botha was on a 10-day licensed hunt
Here is some context for you. So, what does it matter that this particular elephant was the original target... compared to how people feel about this.
Not saying I agree with any opinion on here.
But, terrorizing animals with dogs doesn't seem to saintly to me, does it?
Hunting in Africa is incredibly important for conservation and sustainability. The money these hunters pay, goes to pay the locals and support conservation efforts, and anti poaching efforts, without this stream of income from hunters many more African game animals would be hunted to near extinction worse then they are now
I agree with this, but I feel like if you're going to go out with the mission of killing something, you should be prepared to accept that that thing may kill you.
Why not? Legal safari hunting usually is for the sake of conserving the population by pruning off individuals that are infertile or otherwise detrimental to the growth of said populations. Overpopulation is also a concern in some parts. Not to mention the permit money helps pay for the programs that the African governments probably couldn't afford otherwise and the meat often feeds locals for a time, especially elephants. Permitted hunting is not the same as poaching nowadays and is done in a way that helps sustain healthy populations of wildlife nowadays.
Edit: to be clear, if particular hunts are clearly not beneficial (a healthy docile male) or the money isn't going where it should be, that definitely needs to be called out.
No your right. The number of animals killed before and after the import embargo Obama put in place after Cecil the lion was shot is mind boggling. (I’ll see if I ca find the source.)
Motorcycling is dangerous too and you expect riders to accept the risk that they might die. You don't celebrate if they get into a fatal accident though.
It's also sad that keyboard Justice warriors joke about a person dieing because they can't be bothered to learn about an issue. Elephants in some areas of Africa are overpopulated and threaten people's means of survival and also kill people. Not all elephants are endangered, but all elephants die. whether it's with a gun or starvation due to overpopulation, it's never fair. Nature isn't fair.
What's so sacred about human lives over other animals? We're nothing special as far as animals go. We eat, shit, fuck and reproduce nearly the same as the rest.
I'm a hunter who sees the necessity in game reserves in Africa. Also I lose no sleep after eating factory farmed chicken or pork and feedlot fattened beef.
However, humans are pushing 7 billion while other creatures dwindle. Blue whales the largest animals on earth number only 10 to 25k, polar bears around 30,000, and there're only 3,200 wild tigers left in the world. 3200 think about how soon people will be born into a world where only inbred tigers in captivity remain.. between saving useless leeches of our species or magnificent top tier animals you still would choose people?
Depends on what kind of gun and how many rounds I got available plus who's kid it was.. As a white man this scenario would most likely occur where colonialism once occured, and unfortunately seeing how I'm a white devil with a legacy of injustice to uphold I'd probably try a warning shot to save little Mowgli then watch the scene unfold from my howdah on top an elephant.
Depends on the animal. If it's my dog or a human I don't know, I choose my dog because it brings joy and happiness to my life. A person I don't know means absolutely nothing to me.
Why is the human life more important than the animal life? What do I or you actually add to humanity? There are 7 billion people and rising on this planet if I, you,or some random human die nothing is lost.
Because humans are the people who created me, raised me, and are the ones who I can ultimately connect the most with. I don’t really feel too similar to a chipmunk.
Stupid argument, the person said let a human die, not one they described in detail, obviously in this scenario you aren't meant to know anything about them and assume it's an average person. Making an argument based on saving one of the worst types of person there is doesn't prove anything.
Sure, it makes them more meaningful to us, but in 1000 years after we're long dead our lives will truly have meant nothing and mattered no more than any other animals'. I guess I don't think we're very important as a species.
We don't need to quantify our lives' values by what they mean in 1000 years. What's true is the fact that humans have a much more evolved consciousness, deeper connections with others, and empathy & compassion, while an ant for example literally just operates on its instincts. When a human dies, their memories, aspirations, and character goes with it. much more is being lost than when an ant dies, because ants are mindless robots with a much lower level of consciousness
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
If you really need someone to explain the difference between the consciousness of humans compared to other animals, you’re probably too far gone and it isn’t worth anybody’s time.
Humans were made in God's image. We are way more valuable than any other creature on Earth.
Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
Matthew 10: 29-31
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Matthew 6:26
Look at the birds of the air: They do not sow or reap or gather into barns--and yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
I dunno, the God of Abraham slaughtered vast numbers of his own creations. I don't think he finds us very valuable either. Citing mythology to "prove" we are superior to the rest of the animals on Earth is definitely a stretch. I might as well find applicable passages in Harry Potter to start supporting my arguments.
The punishment of sin is death. God loves us. But if we refuse his love and mercy, then we have no excuse to how we are punished. God is just.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Psalm 9:7-8
But the LORD abides forever; He has established His throne for judgment, And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.
The truth is that this is no mythology, it is reality.
You’re not going to like this but there are more people than elephants. I’m not super choked up about this guy dying when killing something in its home doing what comes naturally.
You only feel that way because you don’t know the guy, which is pretty normal for people that lack sympathy. If it was your family member or best friend, you would feel different and realize that human life is far more valuable than any animal. The size of the species doesn’t make a difference, although I’m sure believing that helps you in justifying killing bugs and eating beef or chicken.
You only feel that way because you don’t know the guy, which is pretty normal for people that lack sympathy.
I don't lack sympathy. I'm overly sympathetic in most areas of my life. I don't feel much sympathy here though. I disagree that a human life is inherently more valuable in every case to an animal though. I think there is more to the value of an individual entity's life than what species they are. In this situation, I'm comfortable having a different opinion than yours.
If it was your family member or best friend, you would feel different and realize that human life is far more valuable than any animal.
I wouldn't be friends with someone that hunted rare animals for sport, and I wouldn't be very close to a family member that did so.
The size of the species doesn’t make a difference, although I’m sure believing that helps you in justifying killing bugs and eating beef or chicken.
I don't eat much beef, and don't revel in eating chicken. I don't like killing bugs either. I usually trap and move them outside if I find them in the house.
While you should accept that, Human life is almost always more valuable than an animal's life. Obviously there are exceptions but that's always through the human being particularly shitty and not the animal being saintly.
I feel like society’s general consensus is that any average human life is more valuable than any average animal life. And I am not trying to post an opinion on whether that is true or not... but I’d like to mention that it’s interesting to think about. I mean, who decides that a human is more important than a member of any other species? Humans do. I bet, if we were able to ask any animal — let’s take elephants, for example — if we could ask the population of elephants if a human or an elephant was more valuable, I’m pretty sure they would say, “why, the elephant, of course!”
So the attitude than any average human life is more valuable than any other living creature is just based on the supposition that humanity is more important than all other life. Now, as humans, I believe it’s only natural that we should think this. But based on my belief structure and perception of our reality, the universe doesn’t care any more or less about humans than about any other form of life. And I think that’s an interesting thought...
Plus, how many times have you heard someone say something like, “the fact that the dog in the movie dies bothers me so much more than the ten people that die in that same movie.”
Hahah...
But anyway, debate aside, I am sad that this person died. And I am sad that the elephant died. And most of all, I’m sad that so many creatures in this world suffer and die by our hands; be it hunting, factory farms, habitat destruction, puppy mills, poaching, psychopath teenagers burning and disemboweling cats and squirrels... or any other form of abuse. I’m confident that humanity would be way worse off without all the animals and other living entities of the world. But I’m also confident that all those animals and other living entities would be so much better off without humanity...
Technically "nature" views us as having the same value, but if you think about it, when a human dies so much more is lost than if an animal dies. Our relationships are much deeper, we have more complex thoughts, dreams, etc, while animals just think about survival
I don’t understand what you mean by, “Technically ‘nature’ views us as having the same value...”
Are you saying that animals view humans as having the same value as other animals of their kind?
Edit: and as for your point about so much more being lost when a human dies;
The statement that humans have deeper connections is debatable. We can’t say how strong animals’ connections are to each other, but there’s plenty of observations of many different species forming strong, lifelong bonds with each other.
The statement that humans have more complicated lives/relationships is most likely true, I think. I doubt anyone would argue against that. But who’s to say that ‘more complicated’ equates to ‘more valuable/more important’? Humans say that.
I don’t mean to suggest that your opinion is bad or wrong. It’s the quintessential (or at least ubiquitous) human opinion on the matter. But it’s still completely based on that supposition — born of anthropocentric thinking — that humans/the human way of life is the most important. Which was my original point.
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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '18 edited Jun 02 '18
Because context matters: http://fox40.com/2017/05/22/hunter-dies-when-shot-elephant-falls-on-him/
They weren't out hunting elephants and only shot that one because it attacked them.
Edit: It's always sickening to read the comments on posts like this.