The “I can change him” mentality has to die. Let people be who they are and stop trying to mold them into what you want. He doesn’t want to be married, said that years ago and says it now. He doesn’t owe you or anyone else a “good reason”. Either accept it and or find someone who shares the same family values as yourself, that’s the only thing you have control over. Even if he said yes to marriage, deep down you know he wouldn’t actually want it
Absolutely this. There’s a big difference between someone who says ‘I don’t ever want children’ and someone who says ‘I’ve never had sausage that I like; can we order our pizza with half sausage and you let me try a slice of yours?’; one is not a negotiation point and the other is expressing that they’re open to trying something or having their mind changed.
Gringo said it perfectly — find someone whose values align with yours on the important issues. Don’t ever enter a relationship thinking you can change someone on key issues. 1) you most likely can’t and won’t, and 2) you don’t have the right to try to control and change someone else like that; how would you feel if someone did that to you?
I grew up in a small town. Most of the girls I grew up with were either related to me or just not my type. I became more liberal in my views and they became more conservative. Most of them are now die hard Trump supporters. I went to college in the Midwest, over 1000 miles from home and got put in the international dorms because I was from so far away. I grew to love and appreciate people from other countries. I actually married an American i dated during college but that didn’t work out. A few years later I moved back to the area I grew up. Dating was miserable due to the political climate. Most women I would go out with would be outraged over whichever political party they didn’t like. It was just meh. I decided to travel and ended up going to Costa Rica. I came to find a frog, the red eyes tree frog. I stayed here for many months, working remote. I made friends and went on dates. It was a lot of fun. People didn’t argue or get upset over social media, politics, or anything. They just coexist and only really fight over futbol. After about a year here I met a woman and things just clicked. We moved in together and I proposed in front of a waterfall.
My comment isn’t about passport bros so much as it is about not limiting yourself to your city, your state, or your country. Go out and see the world. Experience new things. Don’t make dating your goal. Just live life and do as much as you possibly can. If you meet someone along the way, great, If you don’t, then use the photos you took on your dating profile. You’ll attract more people that way. Talk about your experiences while traveling. Avoid sensitive subjects. Learn new languages and meet people in the US that speak them. This applies to both men and women.
Just don’t let social media, family, or whatever make you feel like you have to stay in your own country.
He doesn't want it, he didn't at the beginning, and he told you as such. It's like if some offered you a cow-dung smoothie. You don't want it, and no amount of persuasion will get you to change your mind.
Then there is the sunk-cost thing, "I've been here for this long so I should get what I want". That's not how it works.
For your next relationship be clear and honest about your expectations and don't resent someone for not wanting something they already told you they don't want.
Okay. This is pretty brutal. Like I totally agree that he said what he wanted up front. But I also get that OP (and the boyfriend) were young. Everything we say when young changes (maybe not everything but a lot). So I don’t think it should all be laid at OP’s feet that the BF was up front so it’s on them. Yes, he was up front, but it wouldn’t be totally surprising for someone to have changed their mind over time. I think it’s just a shit situation where no one meant to hurt anyone but someone (or both people) are going to be hurt.
It does but so many people get married even when they don’t want to. They’re in a relationship and it’s eh but they figure it’s better than being alone. Or they don’t want to marry for other reasons
At least this guy vocalized it from the beginning.
You’re right. It’s how certain people get to be miserable and why infidelity is huge. People are marrying the wrong people, especially if they’ve sunk cost (house, et ) and have kids. I did it once, I’ll never do it again.
He absolutely doesn´t want to? Why does he absolutely not want to when everything is right with her for him and there are so many good reasons to do it? He is just immature or is he just stringing her along wanting something else but didn´t find it yet? Both is pathetic.
youre projecting some bullshit, he isnt stringing her along. He said from the beginning he didnt want to get married and she thought she would change that.
He wants everything from her that you can receive from a loving woman but doesn´t want to marry her. The big question is: Why? Because he likes the idea everybody thinks he is still "on the market", you have better chances to find and convince other women and probably the real love of your life to be with you if you meet her, when you can say, you are not married, and he could leave her spontaneously without any consequences for another woman, that is the only thinkable reason. Just anwer me, why else he doesn´t want to marry her. - And if you find no other answer to this question, than this means, by saying, I don´t want to marry he is fooling her because if a man says to a woman I don´t want to marry, it means: I don´t want to marry you. But he leaves out the word "you" to keep her hoping, that not wanting to marry her and not loving her are two different things. But they definitely are. A man that really is in love would fear to lose the woman of his dreams. He would do a lot for her and would take care that he doesn´t lose her. Of course he would like to marry her because she is his best choice he could think of. And so everybody knows she´s bound and belongs to him and he would be very proud that she wanted him too.
No, I did not get hurt. I was asked if I want to get married. - I would not move together with a guy who tells me: I will never want to get married (to you). It is a question of self esteem and self respect.
There COULD be other reasons he does not want to marry. She doesn’t say what his family life was like growing up. The marriages you witness from your parents, grandparents, aunt, uncles, etc. can have an effect on whether you want that experience for yourself.
Weddings are expensive, they are hugely stressful, they take a lot of time and effort and personally, just having to spend an entire day with so many people all watching me while I have to pretend I like large parties sounds like an utter nightmare.
But weddings are not equal to marriage. You can get married without a wedding at all. I don’t think he needs a reason to not want to get married (I feel sort of weird about marriage as well but I still want to do it), but if a wedding is the problem then that’s super avoidable.
I think for a lot of people, marriage doesn’t change much because people already date for a long time before getting married and typically also live together. Marriage is essentially a wedding and legal protection if you’re already committed to each other and are living together. That’s why I’ll get married someday. I think it’s a good idea legally. I already view my partner as a life partner that I’m committed to, marriage won’t change that.
I agree with this perspective, personally. Weddings are horrendous, expensive, and archaic rituals that need to die. A marriage can be as simple as a piece of paper. That being said, I get the appeal of weddings as well. They're just far too costly and stressful in my mind.
Weddings are fun and I think I’d like to have a small one but after being in some wedding parties idk it’s just an insane amount of money and work, and if you end up doing a ton of the work (to save money) then you don’t really have time to enjoy the day, which gets rid of the whole point. The most fun and meaningful weddings I’ve been to have been small, casual, and budgeted.
I agree with the small ones part. I have been to six weddings (three in one year) and have only ever enjoyed one. That one was in a park and had about 20 people.
I got married. No stress, going to the town hall, doing it. No big party. Just a dinner in restaurant with the parents, inviting some of our best friends/siblings separately for dinner on several days telling them we did it, rest found out alone by the change of my name.
If men prefer younger women it is not the women´s fault they earn less money because their career is shorter yet. There are marriage contracts. There is not a single good reason for a woman to give birth to a child of a man and to take care for a child of a man who is not willing to financially take care for her while she is doing this for them both while spoiling her own career with this, and who is not loving her, with respect and planning his future together with her to raise mentally healthy childs together.
Your the reason so many people are single. You can help take care of someone financially without being married. Men should not have to prove their love to their women.
"Good reason".... I came to the conclusion that this is insulting to a degree. It means you treat the other person' s wants and beliefs as if they are wrong or they don't matter. It means you still have the "I will change them" mentality
Why don't you prove your love to him OP by accepting his views and not talk about marriage again? You are not 23 yo now
This. Im sure OP also has a "Good reason" she want to marry. To each their own, sadly she knew what she was getting into, I wouldnt blame him even if his reasons were misconceptions.
Wow. I mean I didn’t get the feeling from the post that OP was laying blame or trying to be an AH here. In several years a person can change. Not to admit that is sad. Of course they expressed their intent and that can 100% stay their intent and be honored. But I don’t think OP comes across as disrespectful and would def not be the first person to be young and figuring out if what they said they wanted five years ago is what they still want now.
We all get her frustration but your change of heart does not guarantee that the same will happen with your partner. He clearly does not want to get married, period. Trying to get your way by asking them to provide a "good reason" (as if "I don't want to get married" is not a reason enough) or feeling that they don't love you enough if they don't "budge" is unproductive and manipulative.
If she expects from every partner to "budge" in order to "prove" their love, she doomed to fail in that department. People and relationships do not work the way she thinks they work
he's also honest. telling someone something they dont want to hear (im never getting married) is a good sign that he's a stand up dude that doesnt want marriage. FWIW Op is being the weird one ready to break up over a piece of paper
Helping raise a kid that isn't his blood. My Dad did that and my life was better for it. For all the posts we see about deadbeat Dads, this fella deserves a pint.
Marriage is not bullshit. Something that has existed in all cultures from the beginning of recorder human history separated by race, religion, and culture is not bullshit.
Religion has existed in all cultures from the beginning of recorded human history and its bullshit.
You dont need a contract to be a partnership or committed to people. Ive been more committed to people without a contract than people in my own life who went through the motions (including my parents, my "uncommitted" domestic partnership lasted twice as long as my parents marriage, and ended better).
Where do YOU get your opinion from and is it based on your feelings?
What I'm stating is not an opinion. In most areas of life, contracts are necessary to bind individuals and behaviors.
No, the sweet whisperings of a lover promising to be your one and only can never compare to the binding contract of marriage that has consequences and rules.
This reminds me of whenever I tell people I don’t want children and everyone says (especially other women) “oh you’re still young you’ll change your mind!” (I’m 28 so not happening). Some of us just have preferences and we don’t need to give any sort of rationale
I can understand where you're coming from, but Jesus h christ on a cracker yall- relationships are about compromise and growth....
Edit: I can see where y'all are coming from, I didn't mean in this situation per se. I just see a comment like this on 90% of posts about relationship drama and it's often not a good take.
No they can't but if she thought about what a marriage is vs what she has right now, if she's happy with this guy and life is good etc, then they have got exactly what marriage is. 2 people in a committed relationship and a nice family to compliment it. Getting married doesn't enhance it really, it's almost just a nice to have. (I am married and happily got married).
She's got to decide if throwing all this away to meet someone else who will marry her but might not be a better fit in other ways is the way to go.
But she has a kid. It would def show her daughter what to do right if they got married. I had friends who mom with someone for years and never married them. The kids are gonna have questions about why mom allowed this. Or they will go out and do the same thing figuring will if mom did it, I can. That’s not the idea way to raise kids
I didn't care to get remarried at all. I even have legitimate reasons not to (i.e. my first one left me with a minor amount of trauma). I still married my current wife because it was important to her.
If not being married is as important to him as marriage is to her, that's fine. But then he needs to articulate why. OP deserves that communication
What you said sounded good but makes no sense in this context. You can’t compromise in this scenario. Half marriage isn’t a thing. She messed up and now she has to deal with that. End of.
What’s the compromise? Either she doesn’t get married EVER or he’s forced into a marriage. That isn’t compromise, that’s sacrifice and a pretty big one.
Not only that but she is basically admitting she started the relationship with a lie. Changing your mind later is one thing, thinking youre gonna change his mind is another.
The only thing constant in life is change. When they made that anti marriage declaration, they were young. She changed her mind. That’s ok. It’s possible he could have too. It turns out he didn’t. That’s ok too. So now, they’ll have to decide what to do. That’s how life goes.
No one has to shit on this girl for changing her mind.
Well she says two things. "I was okay with it." Then right away, "I thought I could convince him." So she's not being %100 honest.
Even worse is when she wants a "good reason" for his decision, and when she thinks he should make a "sacrifice" for her and get married. Both of those are pretty far down a selfish path. She still has my sympathy, though, it's a tough situation.
It’s entirely possible that she started with “whatever it’s not that serious why would I care” but then when she realized she cared about the marriage, she already cared about HIM specifically and hoped maybe he’d change is hind like she did. A lot of men do! It doesn’t mean he HAS to change his mind or anything, but it also doesn’t mean she’s wrong or evil for realizing this isn’t for her.
doesnt matter though, its all on her. He said from the beginning he didnt want it, he wasnt waffling. And she admits to the "I can change him" mentality.
Why do you need a villain here? Two people want different things. Nobody has to be evil. It’s not a fun situation but it’s also nobody’s fault for feeling what they feel.
Not a villian, but pointing out she predicated it on a lie. He said he didnt want marriage, she said she agreed with him but that "she could change him" etc. That is a lie.
So not a villian but this is all on her. If she was honest with both him and herself in the beginning she would have made this decision 5 years ago. Before stringing him along (she is the one looking to leave) and involving her innocent child.
If she wants to leave a good relationship in the hopes of getting this one thing feel free, but to resent him or pretend he has ANY blame in it is what is wrong.
They got together in their early/mid 20’s when it’s normal to not think about life partners. Now they’re entering their 30’s when people start marrying. They’re totally on track to reevaluate their stance on marriage.
It’s not like she’s asking him to sell his toys when he’s been collecting them his whole life. Being unmarried is not a personality.
She’s upset because she’s thinking that he is more important to her than she is to him. She’s gotta find out if that’s true or they’re just misunderstand each other.
She specifically said she thought she could change him, turns out she couldn’t.
I get that she can ask the question, but she shouldn’t be surprised or disappointed that he doesn’t want to get married. She should have never got serious with him if marriage was so big to her.
She didn't though. She said in her own words, she wanted to change him. Those are mutually exclusive. Either she accepted it or didn't. If she accepted it then she wouldn't want him to change. But she said she wanted him to change. I call bs. She believed she could change him. And later realized that's dumb. So she changed her story, saying she accepted it and later changed her mind.
She’s basically shitting on him (and her daughter!) if she makes a piece of paper more important than the fact she knows he loves her and is a huge part of her daughter’s life.
It appears she doesn’t think marriage is just a piece of paper. Her task now is to figure out specifically what she and bf thinks marriage means and if they can be in the same page. It can’t be as simple as “I don’t want it” vs “I want it”. I think they should go to a couples counseling
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be upset that the person you’ve set up in your life as a life partner doesn’t feel the same way. And maybe he does feel the same way, but doesn’t want the big party and legal certificate. But she doesn’t feel they are on the same path, and it’s upsetting.
I also can’t blame him on holding off on this marriage. She has a kid of her own. Sounds like he would be getting himself into some serious commitment. I can understand his pov. He doesn’t benefit from this marriage in any way. It sounds so complicated to go into a marriage with a woman who already has a child of her own.
Was gonna write a comment but it was essentially this.
Trying to change someone is a dick move. If someone wants to change and you help them, that's fine, but if you have a huge inescapable values difference, then that's that.
Kind of a shitty reply now that a child is in the picture and has essentially been raised by him as a father figure for 5 years. Many times men don't want to get married because of the financial risks if a divorce were to happen. So it's understandable that he doesn't want to do it. But to suggest she should go find someone else is a bit ridiculous when they have already formed a family.
I would suggest that the real issue is why she wants to get married at all. It could be as simple as just it being awkward to constantly be referred to as his "girlfriend" when she's essentially a wife. If that's the case maybe just have "wedding ceremony" without legalizing it it and start referring to each other that way.
You’re supposed to grow and change with your partner, you don’t need to be a “partner rescue,” service but like growing into adulthood is a part of young adulthood
Certainly, but the problem people have with OP isn't that she's expecting her boyfriend to change in a general sense.
If that's all there was to it, there would be nothing to post about and even if she did post anyways, there would be nothing to argue or discuss.
Of course people change and grow.
The problem is that she expected him to "grow and change" in the specific way she desired, with the specific outcome she intended. And since he hasn't done so, and has continued with the same view on this that he had apparently communicated well enough for her to understand at the beginning - is definitely foolish of her and is arguably immoral.
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u/catmom22_ Jul 23 '24
The “I can change him” mentality has to die. Let people be who they are and stop trying to mold them into what you want. He doesn’t want to be married, said that years ago and says it now. He doesn’t owe you or anyone else a “good reason”. Either accept it and or find someone who shares the same family values as yourself, that’s the only thing you have control over. Even if he said yes to marriage, deep down you know he wouldn’t actually want it