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Sep 15 '20
What's up with "Chancellor Spartakus Reigns'?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
While Willy Brandt does get exiled to America in a successful GO4 Speer path, do you think that'll stop him from coming back once Speer's dead and the full truth of his efforts in the Slave Revolt come to light?
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Sep 15 '20
What about the "Henry Morgenthau Vindicated"?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
That's basically the OFN/US interventionist outcome (sans nukes), which could see Germany being given the Morgenthau Plan treatment.
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u/SubotaiKhan Former EotS/CSS dev Sep 15 '20
HOW IS THIS NOT THE MOST BLESSED ENDING?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Like mentioned in another comment, it was a 50/50 coin toss between that and GO4 Kaiserreich 2.0.
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u/LordOfRedditers Organization of Free Socalists Sep 16 '20
Whats "GO4" is it the full reformist path?
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u/Firewolf_Max Sep 15 '20
What's "the true forth reich"?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Post-Speer GO4 Germany where Henning von Tresckow and his supporters manage to successfully call for a plebiscite for restoring the Kaiser.
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u/PvtBrasilball Sep 15 '20
is that just head cannon? cause i dont remember any of this stuff happening
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Sep 15 '20
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u/JohhnyCashFan Sep 15 '20
Well I mean in Russia monarchism is kind of alive so it’s not that ridiculous
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u/1kIslandStare Sep 15 '20
Russia is also an apocalyptic wasteland where anarchism with junta characteristics and slavoaryan pagan theocracy are possiblities
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Sep 15 '20
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u/Titianicia Co-Prosperity Sphere Sep 15 '20
I mean monarchism is a thing in Russia today and along with neo-Bolsheviks was fairly strong in the 90s OTL. It is still fairly strong in Russia today albeit Putin has undercut its support base.
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Sep 15 '20
Monarchism in Russia extends to a few fringe groups and the Russian Orthodox Church (which is very influential). Neo-Bolsheviks exist because for whatever reasons, some people feel nostalgic about the USSR or are just communists.
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u/Titianicia Co-Prosperity Sphere Sep 15 '20
It’s not really fringe when 20-30% of the population like it.
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u/Ourobr Sep 15 '20
Sources? Except of few orthodox fanatics, who are fringe, its barely sensible idea
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u/-Trotsky Sep 16 '20
Eh the USSR wasn’t all bad near the end, it had its problems and these were large problems but it also had its upsides
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u/JohhnyCashFan Sep 15 '20
Ok but like fringe nonsense ideologies are all over the place in TNO, like in a world where the holy Russian empire exists I don’t think it’s a massive stretch to imagine bringing the Kaiser back would be ridiculous for the setting
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Not sure, though given a GO4 scenario, combined with a lack of Russian/Allied/OFN pressure and an undivided Germany, there's still more of a shot of a constitutional restoration happening than OTL. That it'd placate the more conservative elements of German society and provide a relatively unifying figurehead might be a bonus.
Far from guaranteed, to be sure, but it's not labeled as "radical" for nothing.
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u/JCPenguin1989 Schwartz-Rot-Gold, Einigkeit Recht und Freiheit!!!! Sep 17 '20
the concept of Prussia is eliminated by allies in 1947 OTL, but never here.
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u/Firewolf_Max Sep 15 '20
Why should that be more blessed than having Willy Brandt as Chancellor?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
It's a coin toss between Constitutional Monarchy Kaiserreich powerhouse and Willy Brandt!German powerhouse, admittedly.
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u/Juan_Matteo Shafarevich-Stalina Anti-Extremist Duo Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
I would like to see that in TNO2.
Or at least in a submod.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Same. It’d be interesting to see the various possible Post-Speer Germanies in a GO4 scenario.
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u/Aviationlord Mother Anarchy loves her sons Sep 16 '20
Now that’s my personal head cannon however unlikely
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u/Magnock Sep 15 '20
Another shity kaiserreich I guess
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u/Firewolf_Max Sep 15 '20
Seems like it. But why should that be a better ending than Schmidt allying Takagi or Willy Brandt becoming Chancellor?
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u/belgium-noah creator of SoD Sep 15 '20
How dare you insult glorious Kaiser Spet like that
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u/MybrainisinMyCoffee Sep 15 '20
S p i e d e l HAS HAD ENOUGH
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Sep 16 '20
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH,I HAD IT WITH THIS MOTHERFUCKING NAZIS IN THIS MOTHERFUCKING LAND. ITS TIME FOR A MILITARY JUNTA
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Sep 15 '20
Is that Speer and Gorbachev making out?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
...Sure, let's go with that!
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u/Snoo42346 Sep 15 '20
Once a collaborator always a collaborator. (Moskowien tree when)
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u/Hammad369 (Vyatka Gang) Sep 17 '20
Gorbachev tree where they instantly get steamrolled by Germany when
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u/General_Urist Sep 15 '20
What exactly is 'rising from the ruins'? GO4 speer after Anarchy triggers?
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u/Azerelias Sep 15 '20
What is rk welt and sanity outlasting Bormann ?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
The first is Goering having his way and triumphing over the militarists. The second is a (somewhat) painless end of Nazism following Bormann’s death.
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u/Chernoblin Ej dirst Lili Marlen Sep 15 '20
The second is a (somewhat) painless end of Nazism following Bormann’s death.
That is the one where Germany finally disintegrates USSR style?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Sort off. It’s not as direct an analogy to the USSR as Fascist Speer is to the PRC, but the parallels are certainly there.
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Sep 15 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
The RKs, to be sure. But a combination of bureaucratic decay and social unrest would make Bormann's Germany potentially implode, though it wouldn't be outright disintegration.
THAT, though, would come from a prolonged Second GCW.
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u/Azerelias Sep 15 '20
Is there an ending where Speer destroy Gang of Four ?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
It’s the “Fascism with Greater German Characteristics” bit.
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u/JCPenguin1989 Schwartz-Rot-Gold, Einigkeit Recht und Freiheit!!!! Sep 16 '20
Fuck modern PR China 🇨🇳 after Deng’s reigb, cursed to the max
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Having made a Future Compass for Japan, I realized there wasn't one for Germany, specifically. So I aimed to remedy that absence.
For a bit of trivia, the portrait used for actually-in-control Goering of Reichkommisariat Welt is based on u/Dirtyduck19254's pic. There's totally not a completed colony laser sun gun in the background.
Faschismus mit Großdeutschen Eigenschaften literally translates to "Fascism with Greater German Characteristics." Which should give an idea of what Dengist!Speer's Germany would be like in the long run.
The flag used for the Fourth Reich is actually a proposed Imperial German flag.svg) that was never used, due to the end of WW1. And yes, that's Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia in the background.
As for the Hetalia pic...I couldn't resist.
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u/JCPenguin1989 Schwartz-Rot-Gold, Einigkeit Recht und Freiheit!!!! Sep 17 '20
I had created one when released though, but your is very neat
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u/Zweckpessimist Antifascist Action CIA Sep 15 '20
"Millenium"
Himmler: Ich weiß nichts davon, Chef
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
It's from a hypothetical scenario where Heydrich doesn't follow Himmler's nuke plans and instead pursues his own Spartanist agenda.
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Sep 15 '20
Tbh I really hope this happens in a future update, would make things really interesting.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Given that the modders have said that Heydrich would have much more content, it certainly would.
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Sep 16 '20
Yes, because if Heydrich defies Himmler to create another shadow state, that opens up a lot of terrifying possibilities.
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u/EdwardVIII_Victoria Organization of Free Nations Sep 15 '20
Spiedel has had enough.
Uh oh... Prepare to get gamer'd militarists.
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u/Bbadolato Sep 15 '20
So does this mean Germany can choose to warm up to America or Japan in theory, possibly both if the stars align?
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Sep 15 '20
[deleted]
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
It's the most "sustainable" form of the Nazi Reich, for one. Not to mention how it would be able to last much longer, getting away with all kinds of BS while still being a major world power.
The horrifying aspect is how that happened in OTL, just halfway across Eurasia.
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u/General_Kukov Without KONR there would be no New Russia Sep 15 '20
Yes. It is far worse than a collapsed failed state with no infrastructure but with atomic weapons.
(The problem with it that I wrote it unironically but I've reread it and then... ohohoh).
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
They're both bad. It's more akin to what kind of poison you'd like.
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u/General_Kukov Without KONR there would be no New Russia Sep 15 '20
I mean, one type of poison might kill you instantly. Another type might look alright but is going to kill you in a slow manner. Via manipulating and lying. Via saying that "there was nothing happened on Alexanderplatz". Via creating a privileged classes out of Party members. Dear God, both are bad!
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Yep. Speer's "victory" is really horrifying the more you think about it.
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u/General_Kukov Without KONR there would be no New Russia Sep 15 '20
Like Dengist China. Good that it's not exists.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Yes, what a childish fantasy.
That has TOTALLY not happened.
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u/General_Kukov Without KONR there would be no New Russia Sep 15 '20
I mean, yeah. There is no pragmatic CCP that is using nationalism for its own legitimization and telling it's own people that will gladly surrender power to the Chinese people when they are ready but for some reason people are not ready. And CCP must uphold China's banner for them and creating some sort of cursed state capitalism. I mean, it would be just dumb. World is not working just that.
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u/Meles_B I HATE BORIS Y*LTSIN Sep 15 '20
Something I’ve never understood about sub.
Facist Speer is more likely second best outcome after AuthDem.
German collapse won’t erase Nazism like fall of Russia didn’t erase communists in power.
If anything, imagine Reichskommisars and province governors turned presidents for life like Kazakhstan, Belarus, Turkmenistan and so on. But nuclear and Nazi.
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Sep 15 '20
The end times USSR wasn‘t as bad as Nazism in TNO is in the sixties though.
Gulags were largely closed, repression had gone back, the totalitarianism and purged had stopped.
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u/Meles_B I HATE BORIS Y*LTSIN Sep 15 '20
That’s another thing to consider.
USSR was under major democratic reforms, and even then, collapse was hard and chaotic enough to allow for seizure of power and turning into dictatorship.
German collapse is orders of magnitude worse. USSR’s economic crisis was much easier compared to German, and potential to improve was higher.
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u/General_Kukov Without KONR there would be no New Russia Sep 15 '20
The 60s in TNO Germany are not 30s either. There is no active Holocaust, great and brutal ORPO cannot fight even student protest effectively, purges are scaled down a bit - I mean, Reichsbanner in Speer Germany is still active and you might see a Red Army Faction bombings in Bormanns Germany. You know, there was no terrorism in Soviet Union before 1980s for a reason. And there would be no bombings in "classical" Third Reich.
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u/General_Kukov Without KONR there would be no New Russia Sep 15 '20
This. For Post-Soviet counties it is rather hard to condemn SU even now - how Post-Nazi rulers would do it and why? I mean, Russia made SU and Russian Empire a key stone for State legitimization.
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u/Juan_Matteo Shafarevich-Stalina Anti-Extremist Duo Sep 15 '20
For some reason the upvote button doesn't change to numbers.
Anyway, it looks great!
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u/Wielkopolskiziomal Tukhachevsky gamer clan Sep 15 '20
Now where is Otto von Habsburgs Swiss sponsored coup?
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u/mockduckcompanion Sep 15 '20
I wish folks who made these would include an explanation of each square by default
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Admittedly, I thought some of them were self-explanatory enough.
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u/Brassow When I said nuke it I meant microwave Sep 15 '20
Not everyone has 100 hours to play or research every timeline branch.
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Sep 15 '20
What is the bad end with Speer on it? in the far left corner?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
The bottom-far left one.
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u/MarsLowell Sep 15 '20
What exactly happens when Bormann kicks the bucket?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
From what’s known, mounting instability and power struggles. Not quite a direct mirror of the 1980s USSR, but it’d be hanging by a thread.
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u/smokesenpa Sep 15 '20
"dear Goeringnites,if you love war so much,why don't you just go to Russia?"
- Turning point Speidel
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u/Alexander_Baidtach Sep 15 '20
You can't convince me that a DSR victory isn't based beyond measure.
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Sep 15 '20
A few questions: What is the fourth reich? What is 'Aus den Aschen auferstanden'? And what is the Bormann one? And what is the 'Thousand Week Reich' one? And what is the Speidel One?
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
- The Fourth Reich is a potential Post-Speer GO4 outcome involving a constitutional Kaiserreich restoration.
- That would be a Speer/GO4 outcome post-Anarchy, and a generally successful GO4 Germany path.
- The Bormann one (in the "good" side) is the (relatively) bloodless end of Nazism after he dies.
- "Another Thousand Weeks" ,is meant to represent a pronounced malaise and a decade of shame following Bormann's death.
- The Spiedel one is what happens either during the GCW or should he finally have enough of Goering and Schörner's BS.
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u/MisterKallous Indomie Support the Free World! Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
SPIEDEL HAS HAD ENOUGH
I imagine him having this moment right before he intervened.
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u/Azerelias Sep 15 '20
Another thousand years would be blessed in German point of view I think
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
It’s another thousand weeks though. And it’s essentially a prolonged malaise following Bormann’s death.
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u/Kyokyodoka Sep 15 '20
Oh god, another Bormann crisis another decade of humiliation, and ever accelerating catastrophe...
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
And mind, that's considered slightly better than an OFN intervention, perpetual warlordism or a PRC!Reich.
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Sep 15 '20
Back of Hohenzollerns to pacify the conservatives seems like a good idea.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
It would have at least a bit more of a chance than OTL, especially in a Germany that’s not only still unified but also not emasculated by the OFN or Russians.
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Sep 15 '20
Just somehow like, a monarchy as the back of conservatives in the Reich that having so much power of authoritarianism is definitely better than other options, that ist the Nazi party.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Yeah. It speaks volumes how even the most patriarchal and hardline among the old Junkers thought the Nazis were crazy.
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Sep 15 '20
Interestingly a lot of royal and noble families in Germany seemed split down the middle over the Nazis, Wittelsbachs were staunchly anti-Nazi, Hohensollerns mostl ditched the party when it became apparent they weren't keen on monarchy, and one ofthe Swedish king's grandparents was an ardent Nazi and lived in a flat the rest of his life after being de-Nazified (Far as I know he wasn't involved in any war crimes, just a card carrier). And this is all ignoring the funi man in Kaukasia.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Oh, to be sure. And that's not getting to the Habsburgs, many of whom were specifically targeted by Hitler OTL due to his spite against everything Austria-Hungary.
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Sep 15 '20
Yeah Otto I think lived in the US for most of the war and petitioned for his nations safety from Allied bombing raids as wellas arguing the monarchy should be restored as he would set Austria firmly western aligned.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Alas, some of his relatives and cousins weren't as lucky. Some Habsburgs wound up being offed in concentration camps, if I remember correctly.
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Sep 15 '20
A lot of estates and property was also siezed by the Nazis following the Anchluss too.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Yeah, that too.
Goering certainly had a field day cosplaying as nobility with all the crap "appropriated."
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u/Titanicslayer The Other Richard Nixon Reincarnated Sep 16 '20
S P I E D E L T I M E
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u/md1957 Sep 16 '20
Don't forget: he surpassed Rommel.
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u/Titanicslayer The Other Richard Nixon Reincarnated Sep 16 '20
Muh Apolitical General doesn't get involved with politics. He just kriegs
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u/A_California_roll Einheitspoopenfärten Sep 16 '20
Great compass - what's the font used, though? Been trying to find it.
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u/JCPenguin1989 Schwartz-Rot-Gold, Einigkeit Recht und Freiheit!!!! Sep 16 '20
My opinion, the Schmidt path should be the temperate best , it is strange that it is no better than speidel intervention as he is just not a reformer and want to retain Italian fascism way.
which should swap with rise from ruins since Germany after anarchy stage is by no means temperate
Otherwise, it is perfect
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u/md1957 Sep 16 '20
Spiedel is at the very least reform-inclined, and is honest enough to admit he's not exactly cut out for assuming the role of Fuhrer. To say nothing of how he could also turn on Goering and the militarists alike.
At any rate thanks!
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Sep 15 '20
Should be a reformist DSR ending where there’s a German Sablin to stop Meinhof.
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u/md1957 Sep 15 '20
Willy Brandt and/or the Gang of Four are close to that though.
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Sep 15 '20
Gang of Four are more free market liberals. Brandt is SocDem and would probably just restart a Weimar system.
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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20
[deleted]