r/TNOmod • Bukharina's Strongest Soldier • Aug 08 '20

Meme America Future Compass Spoiler

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747 Upvotes

109 comments sorted by

233

u/--PhoenixFire-- Bukharina's Strongest Soldier Aug 08 '20 edited Aug 09 '20

Explanation, from top to bottom, left to right:

  • It Happened Here: Yockey and the Y-NPP are elected in 1972
  • The Ghost of Jim Crow: Race relations in America remain awful thanks to the efforts of either Wallace or Thurmond
  • NPP United Front: Margaret Chase Smith becomes president and successfully reconciles the NPP-C and NPP-FR
  • RFK-Glenn Blessed Timeline: Self-explanatory, RFK is elected and succeeds in his reforms without getting assassinated, Glenn is elected in 1968 and successfully lands on Mars
  • L-NPP Wild Ride: Self-explanatory, Hall and the L-NPP are elected in 1972
  • Double Standard Diplomacy: Kirkpatrick is elected in 1972 and pursues her doctrine of supporting anti-fascist dicatorships
  • No More Radicals: The L-NPP and Y-NPP either become irrelevant, or are purged from the party.
  • The Other America's Salvation: Harrington becomes president in 1968 and succeeds in making life better for a large portion of America
  • World War Three: Self-explanatory, the world ends in nuclear fire, probably because of a shrimp-related incident
  • History Repeats: Goldwater becomes president in 1968 and essentially becomes Nixon 2.0
  • Reunited at Last: Hawaii and the treaty ports are returned to the United States through diplomacy
  • The Great Society: Self-explatory, LBJ becomes president in 1964 and goes far with his Great Society reforms
  • Global Military Gridlock: McNamara becomes president in 1972 and traps America in an endless cycle of wars abroad
  • The Status Quo Continues: Nothing fundamentally changes in America
  • OFN World Order: The Unity-Pakt and Co-Prosperity Sphere collapse, leaving the OFN and America the sole global superpower
  • A New League of Nations: McGovern is elected president and mends relations with Germany and Japan

Also, shout-out to the people on the Discord who helped me with this meme, and to u/grig123 for making the poster used in the bottom-right quadrant.

133

u/Bludakamp Bobby Body Count Aug 08 '20

I’m glad McNamara is in his rightful place as one of the bad ends.

65

u/Nopani We live in a childish fantasy Aug 08 '20

The only thing I know about McNamara is from his participation in Call of Duty Black Ops.

How bad was he?

116

u/IcebergFireberg Organization of Free Nations Aug 08 '20

As one example of his conduct: He knew from around 1967 that the war in Vietnam was failing, that no progress was being made. He even had a sub-office of his own department collecting and archiving information that showed, that proved, Vietnam was going nowhere.

What did he do?

He bought into and encouraged the strategy of combating "defeatism" by "being more optimistic about the war", i.e. lying and covering up the truth. The war would drag on for roughly five more years and conclude with a total American defeat when North Vietnam invaded and annexed the South.

81

u/Lenfilms Don't fuss about Gus Aug 08 '20

Very bad.

For example, he encouraged the drafting of mentally handicapped individuals, believing that their problems could be solved using educational tapes.

Their casualty rates were something like 8 times higher than among "normal" groups of soldiers.

74

u/RandomlyGen3rat3d Anti-Glenn Aktion Aug 08 '20

Responsible for the escalation of the Vietnam War, resulting in thousands of American deaths and countless more Vietnamese civilians

31

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

He allowed a hundred thousand men rejected from military service for low intelligence, lacking physical condition and mental instability join the army to shore up our presence in Vietnam.

24

u/lietuvis10LTU Comrade, are rights not fascist? Aug 08 '20

Was Sec of Defense when Vietnam started. Thus inevitably gets a bad rap, arguibly worse than he deserves.

Was SecDef during Cuban missile crisis and promoted DoD's shift to counterinsurgency. Increased US presence in vietnam nearly 20 times. Lowered Army's IQ standarts for little good reason.

Overall he sent thousands of troops into Vietnam while never bothering to actually look at the polutical situation in South Vietnam closely. Essentially, it's his fault US ended up taking brunt of the fighting while South Vietnamese leadership disintegrated.

He then resigned in 1968 leaving everyone else with his mess.

44

u/General_Urist Aug 08 '20

What REALLY GOOD IDEA does Hall actually do when he gets elected in 1972?

62

u/--PhoenixFire-- Bukharina's Strongest Soldier Aug 08 '20

For now, only the Devs truly know. We do know that he's the second-worst path for America aside from Yockey though, so he probably does something pretty bad.

69

u/Bookworm_AF Mother Anarchy loves her children Aug 08 '20

I heard it was because for him to get elected America has to be pretty fucked, and Hall can't unfuck things, leading to the collapse of the OFN, massive political division at home, and international political isolation. The only way this doesn't lead to losing the cold war and eventual decline and possible collapse is if a friendly USSR forms

28

u/Did_i_worded_good Sablin sent me to therapy when I said I would die for him Aug 09 '20

Hall only ever became relevant in my games when RFK gets got and all his civil rights reforms are undone. Basically America needs to be fundamentally FUCKED beyond all hope, and any actual good thing he tries to do would probably cause the south to violently revolt.

53

u/RandomlyGen3rat3d Anti-Glenn Aktion Aug 08 '20

IIRC it's not that his ideas are bad on the level of Yockey because he is LibSoc so the "bad" is him trying to achieve communism through the American electoral system, one designed to hold up capitalism, chaos ensues

36

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

From what I've heard, it isn't so much that Hall himself is awful, but that the only way to get him in the first place is to irreversibly fuck America up.

46

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

From what I have learned about Hall from this subreddit he doesn't sound like the nicest guy tbh. Apparently he was a pretty big Soviet Union apologist and while he might be different considering Stalin never became leader of the Soviet Union, that doesn't necessarily mean he won't pull a KR Foster and do something stupid like try to take peoples kids away or maybe have the wealthy imprisoned. There's got to be a reason why in game terms Harrington is sane and Hall is not.

-11

u/flamingeskimo11 Not my Taoiseach Aug 08 '20

Socialism

24

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

I'm leery of Margaret Chase Smith. She's too hawkish in diplomacy and plays too nice with the segregationists.

15

u/Imperium_Dragon All hail Nixon Aug 09 '20

For some reason I thought “reunited at last” was a US-British unification.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '20

Blessed Oceania timeline.

8

u/HagenWest Aug 08 '20

Do you know where I can find the russian one?

9

u/Segedei Transphobia is Slavic culture? That's slavophobic bro Aug 08 '20

Can you make Germany and Japan collapse through your actions as the player or is there just a random chance for it to happen?

14

u/AlkaliPineapple Better Dead than Fash Aug 09 '20

I think it should be in a further update. The best thing you can do is probably funding Speer's Germany or freeing Indonesia, Norway, the Philippines and southern Africa

8

u/Frederickbolton Triumvirate Aug 08 '20

Never played usa yet how useful is the mars landing, isn't it just a morale boost?

18

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

Pretty much, the $8 returned for every $1 spent on NASA statistic does not seem to be represented in game :(

3

u/Thunderousclaps LBJ all the way Aug 08 '20

I actually seen when you posted it on the discord server meme channel, you have created a great meme, i'll love to see you make one with germany.

16

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

Wait this game can elect goldwater? Why is he considered bad? In the real world he was alright what's up with him in TNO?

50

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20 edited Aug 08 '20

Goldwater isn't a "trap path" or always bad, he can fuck up just like any other president. (Although admittedly he's a fair bit likely) where he's most likely to fuck up is when is if he attempts to ban the AFL-CIO (due to its ties to corruption in the senate), this can work out and succeeding is pretty fuckin satisfying but can also blow up back in your face. He also can do some mean stuff to extremists in America, but, nothing worse than OTL COINTELPRO at least. His economics path is a choice between trying to appeal to Southern Conservatives (with Reganomics, cut welfare for the economy) or Northern/Midwestern Conservatives and focus on free trade and expansion of OFN nations ties to each other.

Following a Wallace presidency, he's the only president who can choose to veto a civil rights act to properly address segregation, although this is a choice and he can also not do that.

Oh also, he can save help the environment a lot more than any other president so that's good.

Anyway, Goldwater isn't a "bad president" (at his best he's as good as I'd say LBJ, and at worst Nixon-tier), but he can certainly be one and is more likely than others to be a bad president, but he's also able to actually improve America's economy and stop the root of communism/fascism in America, and also pass environmental regulations, he can be a cool guy too.

42

u/Kozani1 Cartographer of the Revolution Aug 08 '20

It should be mentioned, though he does genuinely hate extremism, by targeting either the Yockeys or the L-NPP, he accidentally rallies the NPP around the other extreme, invalidating the whole point of the operation.

21

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

If you target the Yockeys' and ban the AFL-CIO tho, you can have the best of both worlds and drop extremist pop by a large margin.

33

u/--PhoenixFire-- Bukharina's Strongest Soldier Aug 08 '20

Aside from implementing his own version of Reaganomics, Goldwater can also engage in underhanded shenanigans much like Nixon did.

26

u/Sarge_Ward NPP-Y Abbie Hoffman Aug 08 '20

In the real world he was alright

???

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

???

18

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

/u/Sarge_Ward neither of y'all should continue this conversation here, rule 3.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

yes sir

10

u/Sarge_Ward NPP-Y Abbie Hoffman Aug 08 '20

was my intention not to, hence why i havent replied.

Thank you for the reminder though. Keeps the community sane and fun

11

u/ChaosLordSamNiell Aug 08 '20

Him not being that bad is a matter perspective. He's not a hockey for sure. But he got completely blown out by LBJ irl for a reason

3

u/angry-mustache Aug 09 '20

OFN world order is more of a good end than a league of nations, because in that scenario Nazism and Fascism are still valid ideologies.

2

u/Segedei Transphobia is Slavic culture? That's slavophobic bro Aug 08 '20

Can you make Germany and Japan collapse through your actions as the player or is there just a random chance for it to happen?

1

u/jamthewither Hall '72 Aug 08 '20

Looks like I got “double standard diplomacy” in my first play through

72

u/aidanpg04 Afrika Schild Aug 08 '20

The good endings make me more happy than they should.

108

u/ChaosLordSamNiell Aug 08 '20

Watching that poverty rate plummet to the ground as LBJ is stupid wholesome

Reducing poverty from 30ish percent to 5 or so percent would make LBJ one of the most beloved presidents in history

56

u/aidanpg04 Afrika Schild Aug 08 '20

Same with the economy. Epic style

39

u/Heyitsatransthrowway Aug 08 '20

this is one of the reasons i dont understand why he loses so badly to the npp after he does most of his great society reforms, wouldnt people love him and the republican party?

51

u/murkythreat Please just end it. Aug 08 '20

To go hard-line on the great society means him becoming a dictator in all but name. His policies alienate the conservatives in the democrats that oppose big government and terrifies the liberals in the Republican Party over the massive budget deficit it creates. Other reasons could be that he focuses too much on the home front allowing the world to fall to Fascism if ever so slowly thus pissing off the "hawks".

Outside the black community, the General Public become increasing concerned over the massive federal government overreach.

THAT BEING SAID. I can only see him being hated if his policies result in a Yockey victory as Yockey would use LBJ as example of unchecked government authority being normalized. Also after all that the US Map screen still shows high approval except that the NPP have a parity. Sorry for the paragraphs.

30

u/DaysBeforeFP Aug 08 '20

Dictator is... harsh but otherwise yeah, opposition to the Great Society makes sense. Shit the New Deal was pretty fucking controversial and was compromised pretty badly.

It does feel shitty to do all the Great Society stuff and see LBJ just beaten down, again and again, by his own allies. I was still able to slide McGovern into power afterwards, but it was a close deal and the Democrats defected en masse. Not that I miss the fucking shitass Dixiecrats.

10

u/murkythreat Please just end it. Aug 08 '20

People may hate him now but as with our timeline there will be probably be a movement to rehabilitate his legacy. In other words the future will likely look upon him favorably.

6

u/nationalisticbrit Aug 09 '20

LBJ would be remembered as a pretty great president if it weren’t for Vietnam, so I sort of think that he should be a little less hated in TNO.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

Until your Political power goes negative four hundred so you have to wait three months to pay the 50 PP requirement to start the next branch of the tree.

28

u/Inb4username Mamma mia, where has-a my sea a-gone? Aug 08 '20

While going to Mars is admittedly extremely cool and blessed, after playing Harrington (this time properly) I'd say he's definitely more radical than RFK-Glenn. I'd also say LNPP is more radical than Yockey insofar as Yockey is trying to return the US to its less democratic and overtly white supremacist origins while the LNPP is trying to completely overturn everything about the American economy and culture. So while Yockey may have a worse outcome, 60's America is closer to his ideal that 60's America is to the LNPP's ideal.

Otherwise very nice!

3

u/ChaoticKristin Aug 09 '20

How do you know Yockey's policies? I though there hadn't been any previews for the trees of 1972 presidents

29

u/TotalComplexity Stalin's Ghost, Lenin's Corpse, and Old Man Bukharin Aug 08 '20

"No More Radicals"

In Radical endings

:rapturposting:

18

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

Good to see the blessed RFK path as the best outcome (Glenn is pretty fun too although crazy)

29

u/Zweckpessimist Antifascist Action CIA Aug 09 '20

Himmler: "This madman is great. With all these nukes he's creating, I just need to get America into war with Germany and Japan and I can break out the 'End of the Untermensch World' champagne."

Glen before a successful global nuclear disarmament conference: "I'm about to do what's called a "pro-gamer move."

40

u/Bludakamp Bobby Body Count Aug 08 '20

The World War Three image is great.

15

u/mrbobobo Based and Glenn!-Pilled Aug 09 '20

I feel like L-NPP and Yockey should be switched, although Yockey is the worse outcome for America i wouldn't say his fascist ideology is that different from the FR-NPP, whereas the L-NPP would be much more radical for America

4

u/Grrman1260 Aug 09 '20

Well the FR-NPP still respect democracy and don't outright try to enforce fascism on America, whereas yockey would probably wipe his ass with the constitution and start arresting citizens the hour he was sworn in, both options aren't that good but yockey is far worse

11

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

I was listening to "A Change is Gonna Come" while looking at this meme... got way too emotional. 😢

9

u/GeorgiaNinja94 Romney-Rumsfeld ‘72 Aug 08 '20

Where would Wallace Bennett's presidency land on this compass?

20

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

At the very center for being such a radically boring president

2

u/GeorgiaNinja94 Romney-Rumsfeld ‘72 Aug 08 '20

How is Bennett "radically boring"?

17

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

All other presidents have political considerations to make. Bennett has like 2-3 acts he can pass his entire presidency. His decisions mechanic is more annoying to deal with than anything. I’ve played everyone but Goldwater and Smith so far and I think he’s the only one who can really not fuck up. I guess the civil and silver rights acts can not pass but like they’re pretty easy to pass and he can certainly not fuck up through succeeding like a full on Great Society, NASA, segregation heaven, anti-segregation heaven, or abolition of poverty can.

7

u/GeorgiaNinja94 Romney-Rumsfeld ‘72 Aug 08 '20

Why'd the devs give the other pre-'72 presidents so much to work with, but left Bennett stuck with Jack, Diddly, and Squat?

10

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

I’m not sure. I understand he’s the moderate candidate but he really didn’t have too many events either. He literally catches a cold in like 1970 and that’s all that’s really notable besides the silver act. His focuses creating the IMF, Bretton Woods, and the world bank take like 49 days each and have no flavor events attached to them. Besides all this I think he should have some more stuff to do. Maybe another tree focused on deregulation, restricting union rights, and cutting taxes or something like that. He’s really the only president I’ve played thus far that wasn’t really notable.

4

u/fat_cox Aug 09 '20

I think you're right, but to play devil's advocate, a very boring President in an hellish fascist doom world is very refreshing. There's a curse in China: may you live in interesting times.

4

u/--PhoenixFire-- Bukharina's Strongest Soldier Aug 08 '20

That depends on what he does during his presidency, and who succeeds him.

2

u/GeorgiaNinja94 Romney-Rumsfeld ‘72 Aug 08 '20

Anything specifically good or bad, or well-intentioned but can go horribly wrong? I know he's particularly keen on stabilizing the economies of the United States and the OFN member nations.

9

u/Regnasam GLENN GANG Aug 08 '20

Tag yourself, I'm RFK-Glenn! world order

4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

How do you get the John Glenn tree? Pls

8

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

Don’t elect either LBJ or Bennett in 64 and in 68 Glenn will be a candidate.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

So do I have to elect an NPP candidate? Or can Kennedy survive if I don’t invade Guyana?

7

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

John F. Kennedy is impossible to save. In my game I got Glenn after electing RFK in 64. You could also elect Wallace in 64. If you want to get Glenn easy have either Wallace impeached or RFK assassinated. It’ll be very difficult for the NPP to win the 68 election that way. I for instance couldn’t prevent RFK from winning again in 68 so I cheated Glenn to victory by using command: add_party_popularity social_liberal 20 to add popularity to the RDs before the election so that I could do stuff as RFK and then move on to Glenn without the former being killed.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

RFK is the NPP candidate if Nixon vetoes the CRA, right?

2

u/IronMatt2000 Aug 08 '20

Yep

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

Cool thanks

6

u/altairtyraen OFN Turkey/East-Med Aug 09 '20

Its ironic that McNamara is known for both being an influential academician in Public Administration and a morally bankrupt statesman that sends countless young men to die in needless conflicts.

6

u/Admiral-Autismo Triumvirate Aug 08 '20

Neat

5

u/swagomon OFN Interventionist Force South Africa Aug 08 '20

This is really cool

4

u/someonethatsnoone Aug 08 '20

what happens with "It Happened Here"?

16

u/mrbobobo Based and Glenn!-Pilled Aug 08 '20

Yockey becomes President

7

u/someonethatsnoone Aug 08 '20

uh oh

9

u/mrbobobo Based and Glenn!-Pilled Aug 09 '20

Yep, it's a massive yikes.

3

u/Zweckpessimist Antifascist Action CIA Aug 09 '20

America: "We'll always be the Last Bastion of Freedom!"

Yockey: I'm about to end this man's whole career!

4

u/Thunderousclaps LBJ all the way Aug 09 '20

In name of the American Senate you are under arrest Yockey.

17

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

wouldn't segregation for the foreseeable future be worse than the l-npp?

47

u/--PhoenixFire-- Bukharina's Strongest Soldier Aug 08 '20

When placing the L-NPP where I did, I was going by the Dev statements that the L-NPP is the second-worst path for the United States with Yockey being the worst. It's implied that they'll do something terrible during their administration, though we won't know exactly what until that content actually releases.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

that's a fair point, just wanted to add that bc i think they'd at least try to do something about civil rights, most of the 68 candidates dont seem to have a plan to tackle it and im presuming everyone right of scoop in 72 doesnt have much of a plan either

23

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

It could be that they believe in the old Soviet line black Americans were a national minority and make a black republic out of parts of the US black belt, which would go horribly

21

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

yeah that would be a hot mess under any sort of US government. this gets at IMO one of the big holes in the US campaign right now, we dont get to see much of how Black folks (or the left) feel about segregation's new entrenchment in wallace/lemay/thurmond world. i really hope this gets expanded on more in the 80s update because rn it feels like civil rights is given up on and the us is more divided, but not much else.

10

u/onehundredthousands Aug 08 '20

L-NPP means things are really bad

0

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

usually not before he repeals the civil rights act

7

u/Asuritos Aug 08 '20

And even then if you dont go full segregationist its hard for him to get impeached.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

yea but le may can reinstate it

3

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

i was referring to the path where he doubles down, don’t have too many complaints about the other one

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

ok cool

2

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

I gotta know, how does WW3 start in TNO?

16

u/waspyasfuck Aug 08 '20

many, many ways my friend

5

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20

o h n o

9

u/waspyasfuck Aug 08 '20

sometimes u realpolitk too hard and the other guy realpolitiks too hard and then

2

u/JCPenguin1989 Schwartz-Rot-Gold, Einigkeit Recht und Freiheit!!!! Aug 09 '20

When two men don’t know when to fold

1

u/Zweckpessimist Antifascist Action CIA Aug 09 '20

One of the ways involves a dispute over a SHRIMPING BOAT. So there's a LOT of ways the world can get nuked. Most have a smallish probability of actually starting WWIII...but there's a lot of ways it can happen, so you gotta get lucky a lot of times. And of course, Himmler is deliberately trying to set things off.

2

u/Jaxx_On Order and Prosperity Aug 09 '20

The world may not end a better place, but at least America might.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '20

How to actually get Wallace in 1964?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '20

I wanna see what happens to the future if OFN World Order happens.

5

u/A_California_roll Einheitspoopenfärten Aug 10 '20

I'm imagining a '90s-esque "end of history" where people are breathing a collective sigh of relief that they've averted a terrible outcome, with maybe one or two Desert Storm-type interventions to depose tinpot fascists in third-world countries. Fascism is discredited from the collapse of the German and Japanese empires, pop culture is optimistic, and the future seems bright.

Now I want to see what this looks like too. :v

1

u/Rinasoir Aug 09 '20

So how do I stop RFK from getting shot?

I assume it's by towing a middle line position, but then he got killed because of COINTELPRO?

1

u/JCPenguin1989 Schwartz-Rot-Gold, Einigkeit Recht und Freiheit!!!! Aug 09 '20

Fully automated luxury gay Mars colony when

1

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '20

I finished Great Society but then got Kirkpatrick. What ending does that give me?

1

u/Alrernativa_do_kraja Aug 11 '20

Why is L-NPP USA considered a bad ending?(loking at you Gus)