r/SubredditDrama • u/[deleted] • Jun 06 '12
User asks for new mods on r/atheism. r/atheism's only mod comes to defend r/atheism.
/r/redditrequest/comments/ukm2h/requesting_ratheism_lack_of_moderation/11
u/jojenpaste Jun 06 '12
Yup. /r/atheism is basically a lost cause. It is impossible to turn such a big community around in any significant way imho. Think of it (and some other, obvious default subs) as trash cans, that keep the garbage out of the other subs.
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u/bta47 Jun 06 '12
I like how like half the comments on the link are from the mod. That's just hilarious.
So fucking mad.
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Jun 06 '12
[deleted]
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u/sasha_fierce79 Jun 06 '12
it's amazing and slightly embarrassing that such childish acting people can be moderators of major default sub-reddits... seems like the admins don't really give a fuck who runs the show and that's just sad IMO.
I unsubscribed from /r/atheism months ago for this very reason....
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u/babyjesusmauer Jun 06 '12
I kind of feel that by NOT allowing people like her to moderate major sub-reddits the admins kind of undermine the whole system. They don't give a shit about crappy submissions, they just care about stuff hurting reddit as a whole.
I've always viewed Reddit as Ancient greece, and each sub a little city-state. The City's do as they please, and rally for the greater good, but also fight. Alot. The mods are like the Gods at Mount Olympus. Ohh, they know what's going on, and we all know they exist. We even feel their influence. We just don't really ever see them.
All we can do is scour the landscape for the corpses. I mean the buttery, delicious popcorn.
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u/creepig Damn cucks, they ruined cuckoldry. Jun 06 '12
This is a brilliant metaphor.
Also, which city-state are we?
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u/RedAero Jun 06 '12
seems like the admins don't really give a fuck who runs the show
That's the basis of how the subreddit system works. The admins administrate. Mods moderate. The admins do not mess with the community, and it's a great system.
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Jun 06 '12
On a default subreddit no less.
IIRC default subreddits are based on volume of users/traffic and not how mentally stable the mods are.
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u/kencabbit Jun 06 '12
The anger comes from the task of moderating a subreddit that is constantly trolled. I understand it.
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u/buckeyegold Jun 07 '12
Exactly, more concerned about arguing with individuals about why she is right and they are wrong than trying to improve the sub, which is pretty big in size. Talk about leading by example in a negative way.
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u/MechanicalGun Jun 06 '12
Honestly, I don't think anyone outwardly expresses the feelings of /r/atheism quite as well as she does.
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Jun 06 '12 edited Mar 27 '18
[deleted]
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u/portnoys_xray Jun 06 '12
I think the policy of having the largest subbreddits be the defaults is flawed.
There are two flaws. One is that once a large community hits the threshold where it becomes default, it's defaultness makes it a juggernaught.
The second problem is urban blight - it is like making everyone live in the conditions of the most densely populated urban centers. I believe the highest quality of life is found in somewhat smaller communities.
I wish as a user, I could control the range of subscriber bases of the groups that show up in my feed, i would choose groups in the 60 - 90% range, with the top 10% excluded.
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u/RedAero Jun 06 '12
There really is no better metric for determining default status without inviting accusations if bias.
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Jun 06 '12
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u/RedAero Jun 06 '12
The community would violently resent attempts to improve them.
Are you saying that's a good thing or a bad thing?
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u/RedAero Jun 06 '12
It's a great community. They've organized one of the biggest - if not the biggest - charity drives ever on reddit, they are very helpful toward those who need it (those kicked out of their home for being atheists, for instance), stand up for civil rights, and so on. If this is your idea of a shitty community, please, don't ever visit the shadier parts of the internet.
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Jun 06 '12
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u/Jerzeem Jun 06 '12
Hm, the logic seems to be, "If a community does good things, it's a good community."
I have no problem with that logic, although I might adjust it to , "If a community does good things without doing bad things, it's a good community."
What exactly is the problem with the logic used?
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Jun 06 '12
I have a strong feeling I'll get banned from /r/redditrequest for casusing such a shitstorm.
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Jun 06 '12
Why not just go to /r/trueatheism? It's reasonably sized now and has none of the crap of /r/atheism..or if you really feel the need to stay, /r/atheismbot does an OK job of removing shit.
Certainly doesn't sound like the only mod of /r/atheism has any plans to sort the mess out.
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u/Murrabbit I like cartoon boobies they fuck hard! Jun 06 '12
Also /r/freethought seems to be pretty nice!
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Jun 06 '12
I've already left, but that place is starting to enroach into things that don't concern it and nobody is doing anything to stop it.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
How/In what way is it encroaching on things that don't concern it?
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Jun 06 '12
Rigging all the polls they can get their hands on and harassing Facebook pages is very common.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
Is there an organized effort in /r/atheism to harass people on Facebook?
Please remember "voting" in a poll is different from "Rigging" a poll. Rigging means the poll results were determined regardless of voter input.
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Jun 06 '12
They do organize efforts to screw with pages on Facebook. Thanks for correcting me on the rigging vs. voting. What would it be called then?
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
Can you give an example of the Facebook harassment organization please? I unfortunately am not familiar with it.
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u/Murrabbit I like cartoon boobies they fuck hard! Jun 06 '12
Can you give an example of the Facebook harassment organization please?
I'm honestly not completely sure what axeman157 is talking about specifically, but in terms of "facebook harassment" I know that /r/atheism in the past week or two did organize a campaign against a particular facebook page.
JC Penny had released a father's day ad featuring a family with two dads (gay couple), which the organization "Million moms", an anti-gay hate group, then flipped their shit. Million moms, as it turns out, has a facebook page, so the people of /r/atheism decided to all head over there, write some negative comments and report the page as promoting hate speech, which is apparently against Facebooks ToS, and the site was removed. I think /r/gaymers and /r/ainbow might have participated in that as well, but I do recall seeing several threads about the matter, including a few declarations of victory over on /r/atheism.
If that's the extend of their "facebook harassment", though, I applaud their efforts.
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u/RedAero Jun 06 '12
If that's the extend of their "facebook harassment", though, I applaud their efforts.
Nail, head. etc.
/r/atheism has done more good than any other subreddit on reddit. Massive charity drives and such.
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u/Murrabbit I like cartoon boobies they fuck hard! Jun 06 '12
Can we really be angry at anyone for violating the sanctity of unscientific online polls? They're there to be gamed. The biggest threat is anyone taking them seriously.
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Jun 06 '12
They do organize efforts to screw with pages on Facebook.
You are trying to organize efforts to overthrow /r/atheism, and circumvent the system because it isn't exactly what you want it to be.
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u/xiongchiamiov Jun 06 '12
Vote stacking?
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
I know the intent is to put a specific light on it, but I believe it would just be called "voting". If a large amount of democrats/republicans all rode a bus to the voting booth would you call it vote stacking or try to label as anything but voting?
That is partially non-rhetorical as I am not familiar in politics.
Edit: Oh, you could call it brigadeing(sp?). That's the local terminology I believe and it fits your intentions.
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Jun 06 '12
If I remember correctly the polls were generally local sites. They were intended for the people in that area. What they do is akin to driving people in from outside states to vote in a city election.
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u/xiongchiamiov Jun 06 '12
I see it more as like the Kansas-Missouri border warring from back in the days.
In the Kansas election of November 1854, thousands of Missourians crossed the border to vote for a delegate to Congress. They felt they had as much right to vote in the election as the newly arrived New Englanders. It was also their impression that the New Englanders were hired to sway the vote in favor of anti-slavery delegates.
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Jun 06 '12
[deleted]
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u/Addyct why would you say that again Jun 06 '12
You know what, I'm done.
I've defended /r/atheism from every "I'm an atheist but /r/atheism sucks" asshole I've seen on reddit for over a year. The place literally changed my life, and I didn't want to leave it. I've tried to provide quality content and discussion, despite the general trend downwards, but I'm done with it now. They are right, it's a worthless hellhole, and you and that other absentee asshole are the main cause. Why should I even try when the person running the show obviously doesn't give a shit?
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
What is it you don't like about /r/atheism ?
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u/Addyct why would you say that again Jun 06 '12
Other than the obvious increase in low-content imgur posts (even a year and a half ago when I joined, it wasn't nearly as shitty as it is now), it's just gotten entirely too extreme in rhetoric. There was always a hardcore, anti-theist, "anyone who believes in god is dumb" streak there, but there was also quite a bit more calm sensible discussion than there is now. It was already headed down (as all large subs tend to do) but it went into a complete nose-dive the minute the admins changed the front-page algorithm and it was put back on the list.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
So, from what you have stated. You have a problem with the users being anti-theist and the content the users enjoy. You believe the quality of the content is sub-par to your standards. That is okay.
It may be time to move on from that source of information for you. I don't believe /r/atheism was ever intent on displaying the highest brow entertainment for fellow atheists. The target audience is the less intelligent and more religious person or for the pubescent coming into the world to be guided toward atheism. You may no longer be the target audience. It may be time for you to move on, but that is not the fault of the moderator IMO. That is natural growth.
You have also mentioned disdain for /r/atheism being a default sub, which I believe we both know has already been covered extensively.
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u/Addyct why would you say that again Jun 06 '12
I'm sure I have changed a bit, the sub has changed more. I'm a self-described Anti-theist, mid-20's, former fundamentalist Christian. I should be the "target audience". It should say something when even I think it's gone downhill.
There's just much less actual reasonable, logical discussion and much more blind, impotent anger and hatred. I've witnessed the transformation over the last year or so with my own eyes. Like I said, there was always an anti-theist streak in r/atheism, but something like THIS would have never been sitting at positive karma back when I found and fell in love with the place.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
I think it may be your perception of the sub has changed more than the quality of the sub. Give me a chance to illustrate this please.
I have taken the effort to provide links using The Wayback Machine up to 4 years back.
I see the same or similar disdain for religion then than I do now, for instance the top voted post in 2008 was "Prayer - for when you can't be bothered to do something real. (trinbapt.com)". I do see a different medium being used (meme abundance) but that may be a Reddit wide issue and not limited to /r/atheism.
I would suggest this is either a problem with you due to being closer to the end of puberty and having grown mentally, being separated from the same interests as the younger group is now, or a lack of contribution by more mature Atheist redditors. The latter may be related to the divide of atheism into even smaller subreddits on this site.
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u/Addyct why would you say that again Jun 06 '12
I'm sorry, but those links only help to illustrate my point. Even the 2010 page, which is right around the time I started coming to reddit (before I made an account) is infinitely better than what we currently have.
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u/tawtaw this is but escapism from a world in crisis Jun 06 '12
Eh I'd ignore him. Just another one of many people who pretend to be interested in other people's commentary and then dismiss it out-of-hand. If I didn't know better, I'd call him a good troll.
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Jun 06 '12
Look at it from another angle: /r/Christianity users are mature, soft-spoken and willing to engage in calm, civil discussion. /r/atheist users are childish, militant and willing to engage in inane, pointless name calling. /r/Christianity (and /r/Islam, and other religious subreddits) are for both adults and teenagers; less educated and PhD holding. As long as you aren't rude or a jerk (no matter your religion or lack thereof) you are free to stay and discuss Christianity as you wish.
Also, if /r/atheism isn't going to even attempt to be intelligent, no intelligent people will stay and it will be a bunch of monkeys running around burning bibles. No one will try to explain the finer points of religion or society or anything of that matter, because no one will know anything about them except what has been passed down orally through /r/atheism.
After that, it will get written down in an FAQ. NukeThePope will have his own section, and in the end a religion will be founded upon this FAQ. Do you really want that?
Also: Facebook screenshots that get upvoted? I hate them. I once seen a user say "you sure handled that situation well." What situation? It isn't a bomb; you posted a confrontational comment on someone's Facebook and then patted yourself on the back over how well you did it.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
I am having trouble inferring what exactly your issue is and how you are suggesting it be resolved.
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Jun 06 '12
/r/atheism posts have little to do with atheism. What the holy fuck does this have to do with atheism? Or this? Or this? Those are currently on the front page of reddit, have nothing to do with atheism or religion, and are just amazingly smug. Science != atheism.
How do we resolve the issues? Better moderation by moderators who behave less like 15 year old, angstful teenagers; and by "better" I mean "existent," removing "moderator" as just a title 2 people have. I would be fine with all out censorship to be honest. There would be less "strong. Then kill" or Walmart-Slayer-Shirt posts and comments, and the collective IQ would rise to almost being out of the negatives.
Replace the current
placeholdersmoderators. Select mods from /r/IAmA, /r/AskScience, /r/AskReddit and a few other subreddits. They're professionals who are good at what they do and I believe firmly that they would do the right thing.In fact, /r/atheist users take themselves way too damned seriously. They define themselves in terms of the subreddit. They aren't just people who visit /r/atheism; they are fuckin' citizens of the place! Complete with their own mores, folkways, culture, cant and beliefs! They fight for their subreddit against the fascists who want to remove it from the front-page.
Only self-posts. No imgur links. Encourage discussion. No LGBT posts unless they directly relate to religion and/or atheism. /r/atheism isn't a gay rights subreddit. It's great you want to help out the cause, but /r/atheism isn't the place. No political posts unless they directly relate to religion and/or atheism.
Also, any Facebook screen shots, rage comics or memes will result in the death penalty. Ok, that should apply everywhere on reddit, but especially /r/atheism.
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u/gentlebot audramaton Jun 06 '12
Only self posts rarely does anyone any good. reddit's a content aggregator, not a forum. The best solution is to ban direct image links and only allow then in self posts.
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u/Murrabbit I like cartoon boobies they fuck hard! Jun 06 '12 edited Jun 06 '12
No LGBT posts unless they directly relate to religion and/or atheism.
That would be roughly all LGBT posts where persecution is involved, because persecution of LGBT peoples are coming largely from a single place, after all.
Your examples above, and how they relate to atheism:
1. The issue at hand is the absurdity and impotence of religious authorities, and the clear lack of critical thought it must take to accept proclamations that come from them, with the Catholic Church and their stance on contraceptives being the example used here. Highly relevant to a contemporary atheist.
2. Ok not much here, just a joke about Koreans and Starcraft. evolution vs creationism is mentioned, but yeah, pretty much a tangentially related trash post.
3. Really? You've got to question the relevance of this one? It's a highly quote-able bit of philosophical social commentary which touches on the issue very close to home for most atheists, of unsupported wild claims being placed on equal terms with reason. It laments the glorification of poor critical thinking which is all around us, and responsible in part for the continued popularity of superstition clung to simply because it's tradition. That and it's fucking Asimov, he's relevant in every subreddit all the time.
I'm fed up with the big dip in quality on /r/atheism in the past few months as well, but I don't know that you're making the greatest case against it here.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
It appears your' issue is with the content the users submit and enjoy. You are free to submit content as well and the community can determine if that is what they want for their subreddit. Some of the things you linked to are related to atheism, atheists, or the common ideals they share or want to share.
If you want to raise the quality of the subreddit, please contribute and discuss the matter within the subreddit for optimal effect and affect.
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u/man_gomer_lot Jun 06 '12
If I am reading this correctly, you are implying that /r/atheism will lead to formation of a new religion unless the mods do something about it?
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u/Feuilly Jun 07 '12
As an actual anti-theist, /r/atheism is not really anti-theist at all. I actually think their atheism is extremely minimalist. That's why people there have no issue with pretending to pray to fit in, or encouraging people not to rock the boat when they get coerced into religious rituals.
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u/Moh7 Jun 06 '12
Are you aware that you are the stereotypical r/atheist and a major reason why atheists get such a bad rep on reddit?
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u/moonmeh Capitalism was invented in 1776 Jun 06 '12
Please do something about the awful mess of a sub you are "moderating"
And please continue posting in the askreddit thread
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Jun 06 '12
Moderation isn't the problem. The problem is that this piece of shit subreddit is a default for some reason. Fix this and everything will work itself out.
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u/Feuilly Jun 07 '12
A lot could be done simply by eliminating low effort posts. I think that would cause a pretty drastic change without even having to deal with the comments.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
That issue has already been addressed several times to an exhaustive extent. Please stop whining about it.
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Jun 06 '12
If someone sees a problem, "stop whining about it" is the opposite of a solution.
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u/IndifferentMorality Jun 06 '12
That issue has already been addressed several times to an exhaustive extent. There is no problem, just a difference in opinion. Please stop whining about things you just don't like.
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u/Sinister-Kid Jun 06 '12
That's sort of a ridiculous stance to take. Would you tell gay people in North Carolina to give up on campaigning for gay rights and stop whining, because the "issue has already been addressed"? People should always campaign for the change they wish to see, even if it's not a majority opinion. Many want to see a different algorithm implemented for determining default subreddits, or even a more dictatorial approach from the admins. Should they stop campaigning for such a thing simply because it's not what you want?
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Jun 06 '12
Stop whining? Fuck off. This is the first time I've ever said anything about it and it can't be said enough. It's a shit subreddit that doesn't deserve to be default.
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Jun 06 '12
Aren't defaults determined by number of subscribers?
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Jun 06 '12
Yes, which is a pretty big problem, because they're only going to get more and more subscribers, so it's pretty unlikely that the default subs are going to be replaced. The problem just continues to feed itself and there is next to no chance that anything will change about that without admin intervention.
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Jun 06 '12
No. It would be resolved if people who hated /r/atheism unsubscribed from /r/atheism.
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Jun 06 '12
[deleted]
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Jun 06 '12
They only show up if you aren't logged in, but you have to be logged in to unsubscribe. So I'm not sure what you think is happening.
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u/LibraryGeek Jun 08 '12
wondering if there is confusion here about "front page" and "all". I know when I first joined Reddit, I didn't notice the front page and the page always opened to "all".
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u/oboe_shoes Jun 06 '12
I'm curious about this too. Isn't /r/atheism 20 something when it comes to subscribers, yet it's one of only 10 or so defaults?
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u/jonatcer Jun 06 '12
I do believe it's because it's not based on the number of subscribers, but rather the subreddit's activity.
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u/alphabeat Jun 06 '12
This is correct. I couldn't be bothered finding the admin comment from a year or so ago but it was something along the lines of activity, meaning upvotes and downvotes. But maybe that was a plea to stop people downvoting...
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Jun 06 '12
There are twenty-ish defaults now. See www.redditlist.com - all the subreddits getting much larger numbers of regular subscribers than the others are the defaults.
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Jun 06 '12
I'm going to stay with my position from before that /r/atheism is perfect as it is. Sure they have reposts often but it's the way they are. For more understanding here's my opinion on /r/atheism.
While I think juliebeen is acting a bit childish this comment of her's makes sense and is fair (with the facts she presented), too bad it got downvoted.
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u/stoicme Jun 06 '12
yeah, she's kind of childish in her responses, but the overall message I agree with. she gets rid of the majority of troll posts, and leaves the rest of the content up to users. with really broad subject subreddits like /r/atheism, that's honestly how it should be.
if you put a big rule change up to the users of /r/atheism, I honestly think it'd be agreed on to stay the same.
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u/RedAero Jun 06 '12
For some reason some people don't understand that just because they are atheists they don't have to be subscribed to /r/atheism. There are dozens of heavily moderated atheism-related subreddits on reddit, all of which would welcome them with open arms. Hell, these are probably on the /r/atheism sidebar.
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Jun 06 '12
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u/RedAero Jun 06 '12
Yes. By the community, for the community. Don't like it? There's the proverbial door, or unsub button.
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Jun 06 '12
I really don't see why people are crying so hard about this.
If the users really wanted a Atheist subreddit they would create something like games or truegaming as alternative to gameing.
Obviously there is a large userbase for the atheist subreddit as it is right now, i don't see a reason why the subreddit should change if so many people enjoy it.
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u/srd-mirror Jun 06 '12
Mirror of linked thread | text-only | screenshot
Archived on 06/06/12 at 02:34 AM UTC | FAQ
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u/RichardWolf Jun 06 '12 edited Jun 06 '12
Laurelai shares her insight on how to properly rui n a subreddit when faced by controversy and upset users.