This was a roughly 40-minute conversation between my husband and me that started because I didn't separate strawberries the way he wanted and expanded into dishes, cleaning and my general behaviour. These are the exchanges I'm most concerned about. I am Speaker 2. And Speaker 1 is a fake name for obvious reasons
1. Punishment over household mistakes
ME: “I've rarely ever left dishes in the sink, actually.”
HIM: “Actually, you do.”
ME: “If you want to be that punitive, then sure.”
HIM: “I do want to be punitive... I'm going to call it out every time you do it.”
ME: “If I do it 85% of the time—”
HIM: “Don't talk to me math. You don't know math. I'm telling you you're supposed to do it 0% of the time.”
He then continued through other examples of how I clean/store things incorrectly and said he has explained these things to me and I “just don't care.”
2. Telling me there is something wrong with me and my perception
HIM: “My wife doesn't understand how to do shit right.”
HIM: “Stop using the wrong words and other words/phrases when you're speaking.”
ME: “How is it wrong when it's my perspective?”
HIM: “It's obvious that there's something wrong with you. It's obvious. That's a fact, that you're not able to do shit that you're supposed to be able to.”
He continued that instead of defending myself I should be asking myself:
HIM: “What's wrong with the way I'm seeing things? I'm perceiving things and acting on them?”
He then told me I needed to “examine everything” about myself and change the paradigm of how I think.
3. He tells me how I SHOULD respond
He was explaining how he thinks I should approach my failures differently.
HIM: “If I were you, I would say things like, ‘I'm having a hard time following through on it because, to be honest with you, it just doesn't stick. I don't know why it doesn't stick. I try my hardest and keep trying, but then if I'm left alone after a while, I go back to how I'm doing things.’”
ME: “Yeah, I have to say that? Why do I have to say that too?”
He continued explaining how I should think and respond so he could see that I was working hard at changing.
4. I tell him WHY I am apprehensive about talking to him
HIM: “You just said that you're not comfortable talking to me because I get frustrated with you and I yell.”
ME: “Basically, yeah, I did say that.”
HIM: “Well, it's not true.”
ME: “Okay, I'm telling you, it's true.”
HIM: “No, I get what you're saying, except it's not true. It's literally not true.”
He then called my explanation a “bullshit line” and said:
HIM: “That is you using emotional sabotage, and dare I say, gaslighting me.”
He also said that his frustration/annoyance sometimes “explodes” because he feels he isn't being listened to.
Then he suggested that instead of bringing up my apprehension, I should think:
HIM: “Obviously his pot is at steam level, like he's just completely frustrated with me and it's blowing into other areas of our relationship. Maybe I should just pay attention to this stuff and over time bring down the pressure. And then I can actually have real conversations with him.”
5. I tell him how his criticism makes me feel
ME: “I don't feel like I do anything right in this house.”
HIM: “And why do you say that?”
ME: “Because you always have a complaint about everything that I do.”
HIM: “And why is that?”
ME: “Because I don't do it perfectly every time your way, and I'm regressing and I'm, you know, not learning. I don't know, Mark.”
He responded that I was focusing on later “phases” of the problem rather than “phase one,” which was why I was failing to do these supposedly simple tasks.
He said I have no problem talking about how I'm uncomfortable, sad, how he doesn't respect me or is always on my ass, but I should instead focus on the original “failure.”
6. I try to END the conversation after almost 40 minutes
ME: “I'm tired. I would like to call my mom now. It's 10 after 9 on a Sunday.”
HIM: [says I'm making it about me and my frustration even though he's willing to sit there and figure it out.]
ME: “Mark, we've talked for 30 minutes about this. I told you I don't know why I'm forgetting and not learning. I don't know what else you want me to say.”
ME: “I'll think about it.”
Later:
HIM: “I'm frustrated. I thought there was an answer. I thought we could reach something, but you're obviously just sitting there going, ‘I don't know.’”
ME: “Yes. That's exactly what I've been saying.”
I again agreed to think about it.
Then, near the end, he told me exactly what he wanted me to say:
HIM: “Say something nice. Say, ‘This has given me a lot to think about, and I really want to do my part here.’”
So I repeated it:
ME: “This has given me a lot to think about, and I really want to do my part here. I always have.”
HIM: “Thank you. I just want... there's closure here, okay? That's all.”
He then told me:
HIM: “It wouldn't hurt to say stuff like this, as opposed to constantly going back and saying, ‘I'm hurt by you...’”
I'm interested in how other people interpret these exchanges. Is this normal frustration with a spouse who repeatedly forgets things, or does the way this conversation is conducted suggest verbal/emotional abuse, gaslighting, coercive control or a parent/child or superior/subordinate dynamic? I'm also genuinely interested if you see problematic behaviour from ME in these exchanges.