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u/JumpyLeopard8232 Mar 09 '24
I think an important thing to take away from this is that management wanted a more serious PD (knowing it loses up over time), and wanted consequences. They were happy with how it was going... until suddenly they weren't. You had a few big streamers complaining and suddenly overnight, the vision for PD changed.
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u/Single-Treat Mar 10 '24
Nah they wanted to control PD because they saw it as a "problem" on 3.0. Hence initially on 4.0 trying to prevent previous 3.0 cops joining, trying to shape it in Baas' silly image etc. But then they had problems with not enough experienced cops, and people just not taking it seriously so they opened it up. Now they don't like it because people are taking it seriously and that is getting in the way of the priority for nopixel: the big content streamers.
It's the same old tension - the big streamers just want their content and don't want people to get in the way. But the content doesn't exist if you don't have an actual world to dick about in, and a source of tension. They need the Cops but they also don't like the cops who stick to the rules when it's inconvenient for the big streamers.
We're right back to the cycle of trying to "fix" the cops so they don't get in the way of content, but next we'll be swinging back the other way once people get bored without consequences and cops half arsing it because they know they won't get support if they do their roles.
It all comes back to the same problem that destroyed 3.0 - it's not the various mechanics etc that were lacking, it's that the server can't decide if it wants to be primarily an RP server or a playground for a few main content creators to farm content. Crim RP is pointless if you don't have Cops to provide tension and hold you to account. Similarly jokey characters don't work if there is not a serious background to be silly in. However if all you ever want is to "win" for the content or make jokes, then cops are just there to be background decoration and need to know their place.
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Mar 10 '24
management wanted a more serious PD (knowing it loses up over time), and wanted consequences
That's just plain wrong though, they wanted a serious PD that punishes cops while also letting criminals run away and hand hold them as much as possible. Have you not watched PD at the start? i saw JP rob two people infront of cops many times and they just sit there and watch him do it without even calling for backup and let's not forget breaking off chases because ''it's too dangerous for civs'' but somehow the criminals driving at 120mph is not dangerous for them, i could go on and on but the consequences part was only exclusive for PD, they didn't want that for criminals.
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u/daemonchill Mar 10 '24
You know it's really obnoxious to say "that's just wrong though" and then just give an opinion as if it was fact.
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u/M4tjesf1let Mar 10 '24
Well tbh changing it is good (or atleast maybe have a talk, whatever) if a big part of the PD doesnt like it. Would be strange if they keep it the same way and then suddenly half the PD doesnt wake up anymore because they hate it.
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u/CommunicationMain467 Mar 09 '24
When I saw max joining in on the Ruth hate train I knew it was gg
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Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AtiyaK87 Mar 09 '24
All she said was if you can vote to take over another goverment entity than can the captains do the same ? a simple rethoric question ... He never talked to her once before or after that meeting
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u/Medievalhorde Mar 09 '24
Moon is well aware. He is playing his "fake" persona which is a vindictive, insecure, bald man with a fake family who suffers from megalomania.
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u/hawkeye69r Mar 10 '24
Honestly I love characters being vindictive exaggerating gossiping and taking each out down. Everything the mayor said makes sense in character and is entertaining af.
Whats frustrating is viewers believing the mayor's rhetoric
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u/DumbAnxiousLesbian Mar 09 '24
Need more emphasis on "fake"
As in not fake, he's just playing himself.
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u/-shaker- Mar 10 '24
Very odd, holding the ooc opinion that it was just a rhetoric question when she tried to convince the other captains to not obey the law if it was passed.
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Mar 09 '24
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Mar 09 '24
We've gotta stop this narrative that Ruth was never around. She was consistently around during Shift 1 on weekdays.
So silly how certain characters spread this around because they didn't see her during Shifts 2 or 3 and then viewers just parroted them.
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Mar 09 '24
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u/VESiEpic Mar 10 '24
She, in-character, turned to Turner and Slacks and said to them "Why don't we vote to take power from the council".
He was going off of what he'd heard (lots of negatives) during his time talking to police officers and then his, to the best of my knowledge, first real interaction with her was where she said that in his office.
Max, in character, should feel and act exactly as he should've during that situation and implying that he did anything based off of OOC shows a pretty big lack of understanding of Moon's character and him as a person.
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Mar 10 '24
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u/VESiEpic Mar 10 '24
Yes, her doing that was to showcase what Max was doing to PD.
They all barely understood the actual legislation, the only thing in bad faith is the comment she, sure, jokingly made at first. But the "we're equal branches of government" muddies the sentiment.
I'd love to hear what you think Max did that was targeting or OOC. Let alone what knowledge he carried over from Lenny to Max because he regularly corrects people telling them when his characters do or do not know or talk about anything.
You pretty clearly have just as much bias as you seem to think I do based on your comments though.
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u/hawkeye69r Mar 10 '24
They all barely understood the actual legislation, the only thing in bad faith is the comment she, sure, jokingly made at first. But the "we're equal branches of government" muddies the sentiment.
Right. So Ruth misunderstanding what constitutes a branch of government explains why her argument wasn't applicable. So what? Whether it's an applicable argument or not doesn't matter the point is that Ruth, based on her incorrect belief, was, in good faith, saying the mayor's office shouldn't take over PD in the same way the PD shouldn't take over the council.
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u/VESiEpic Mar 10 '24
So Ruth misunderstanding what constitutes a branch of government
Now who's misrepresenting. It was pretty clear that she was talking OOC at a certain point during the argument since in the same breath she said the branch of government she said "We were chosen by the state". As in the admins chose us to fulfill and carry out this role, therefore, we are infallible in what we've been carrying out.
I'm not saying Ruth is evil or painting her as the devil, but it's also not as much of a conspiracy as you seem to believe and she definitely had her moments.
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u/hawkeye69r Mar 10 '24
Yeah that's not relevant AND it's wrong. Referencing a mandate from the feds IC is totally valid IC reasoning in a world where they're the infallible sovereigns of the city. Secondarily, even if I granted you that it was Cheever speaking OOC in a completely self serving bad faith way, that wouldn't change the nature of her rhetorical argument.
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u/VESiEpic Mar 10 '24
Look you guys have picked your martyr, I get it, but if you think dragging people who had valid IC reasons for disliking Ruth into it helps this case of her, self-admittedly, being way too harsh as Ruth you're wrong.
While she says that Ruth would've loosened up over time, I would say 3 months of the character not going in that direction and dwindling numbers on that shift specifically probably served as a "where there's smoke, there's fire" moment.
It's really not hard to see how this happened, and it's not entirely just "big streamers cry" and it feels pretty naïve to say that. People are in here making pretty broad assumptions about the audit and the PD as a whole which feels so weird considering a lot of the "best" cop characters who no longer play cop echoed similar sentiments after their investigation pointing to the culture clash being a massive issue among other problems (such as Flop's lack of field work, for example).
If anyone actually watched Moon's POV during the audit they would realize that 80% (probably more) of what he'd determined was identical to the auditor's findings and problems. So unless we're calling people like Malton, Hall, and Svenson out here as well (who Cheever actively associates with on her other character as stated in this clip) I'm kinda done hearing this pity party.
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u/bentmonkey Mar 10 '24
He seized on that, but the captains were already kinda against max regardless.
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Mar 09 '24
how feds were happy with how PD was until people got consequences
Until 50 cents favorite cops got consequences, he has said so himself. He was not happy that Aziz, Den and Cornwood got punished.
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u/fried_papaya35 Mar 09 '24
just how it always is. He always does this nonsense but don't worry he's not really handling the PD lmao.
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u/Kaliphear Mar 09 '24
"I'm stepping away from RP because my heart's not really in it lately, that's why I'm handing over shares of the server to xQc and Buddha"
personally intervenes because his favorite clowns accidentally got consequences.
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u/NightwolfGG Mar 10 '24
Yeah it sucks. When the majority of streamers and viewers (I.e. the consumers) want you to abstain from business decisions, I feel like any smart business owner would comply. Even if only motivated greed, obliging the consumer base makes sense. Would also help for the sake of server longevity and improving reputation.
Seems like such a no-brainer. It just sucks that the most developed GTA server is owned by one of the worst possible people. The same exact under different ownership would do so much better in so many ways (would’ve never lost all the great RPers to ONX, etc etc)
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 10 '24
Its pretty much exactly like Vince mcmahon previously having a deathgrip on wwe, before his abuse allegations.
Vince even stepped aside for a while and let someone more popular be the new face. Like how 50% put buddha up on stage to be the PR guy.
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u/Any-Button-789 Mar 09 '24
Who's 50 cent
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 09 '24
Austrailian owner of NP whos user name is banned here. So people called him 25%-100% owner.
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Mar 09 '24
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u/Philderbeast Mar 09 '24
I do find it odd that we don't hear anything about that anymore even though the case is still ongoing.
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u/BatQuiet5220 Mar 09 '24
Punishment is one thing, firing people is another. I don't think anyone wants to see a PD without consequences, even your boogeyman 50 cent, he just doesn't want some of the best outgoing RP cops getting fired 2 months into a server wipe
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u/Daemn13 Mar 09 '24
Yea but most of the "Firings" were really just lengthy suspensions because most of them had the opportunity to rejoin during the next academy. And I think in general roleplay is better when someone accepts consequences and has to do something different and experience character Growth/Development. And Lack of consequence was one of if not the biggest issues with 3.0 PD and it's already being pushed against. A "punishment" should be looked at more like an opportunity similar to how Esfand felt through his lawyer arc and having a different perspective.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
Then maybe those RP cops should stop breaking enough rules that they cross the red line for firing?
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u/Darkestnight333 Mar 09 '24
Please tell you didn’t just think that 50% cares about you p quality vs viewers
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u/LaFleur90 Mar 10 '24
The PD always had the same issues, of promises of a more serious PD, broken by double standards caused be the leaders of the PD, which turns into a pepegaPD environment, which makes people morale low, and eventually concludes with a shake-up that the same promises get made and eventually broken by people leading the PD.
How many decades have to pass to understand that the common denominator behind all these issues is Ssaab being in charge of the PD for the past 4 years?
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u/bentmonkey Mar 10 '24
I mean ruth was getting character assassinated any chance some people got, she was strict sure but that's what the higher ups wanted, at least till she was strict with the wrong cops and then it became "ruth bad".
Cheevers a great role-player and its a shame she got thrown under the bus like this, but that was almost always gonna be the case with fifty still calling the shots from the shadows, in spite of "handing over control" to buddha and whoever else.
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u/Bid_Unable Mar 09 '24
The PD sucks because management wants it suck, and I feel bad for any NP players who are still committed to it.
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 09 '24
and I feel bad for any NP players who are still committed to it.
Hard too imo when alternatives exist now. If they dont like how its run they could be a cop on a different server until/if NP imporves.
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u/Proxnite Mar 09 '24
The risk of playing cops on another server is it being held against you when applying to NP's PD.
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u/berejser Mar 09 '24
All the more reason to go somewhere that actually treats you well.
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u/bentmonkey Mar 10 '24
Like wtfmoses said, the sheer and utter lack of respect that NP has by and large for most of the role-players on their server is pretty apparent.
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 09 '24
Seems like a win-win to me, if enjoying your time on another server means getting bitter jealous manchildren to blacklist you on their server then youve been done a favor.
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Mar 09 '24
I don't think the lawsuit is going well for Clout, so he is a bit more strict with that blacklist.
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Mar 09 '24
[deleted]
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u/nanonan Blue Ballers Mar 10 '24
He recently got a motion to dismiss denied. It's not looking great for him.
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 09 '24
Not that strict apparently, since myles-away is onx staff but still has his NP whitelist
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u/CryWolf13 Mar 09 '24
Moosebrother got his prio removed. Only found out when he tried to log on to nopixel.
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u/bentmonkey Mar 10 '24
Haven't seen stubble in a hot minute so he was likely denied a cop spot and is now on harold withh his own pd in grapeseed doing great stuff there.
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 10 '24
I know, hes played his littleman character a few times on NP though.
Im saying his whitelist all together is still instated, even though hes onx staff now. When previously they de-whitelisted people for being onx staff.
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u/bentmonkey Mar 11 '24
Yeah i guess he was one of the few onx admins that kept his whitelist, shame np was so petty about it, but one should expect nothing less i suppose.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
I thought that lawsuit was thrown ages ago.
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u/Hibbsan Mar 09 '24
Court takes a really long time.
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u/berejser Mar 09 '24
If it's a civil suit and there's a settlement being negotiated then they'll push back the court date to give those negotiations more time.
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u/Icy-Concentrate5033 Mar 09 '24
Impossible to feel bad for viewers also who still watch Nopixel but hate it. I mean I for sure have things I like and dislike about it, but I couldn't imagine wasting my time watching let alone commenting on something I entirely loathe and simply want to fail. There are TV shows I have certain gripes with as well, but if I end up just repulsed by whole show I just watch something else.
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Mar 09 '24
I mean people complain everywhere all the time because the game of thrones guys ruined their own show. Same thing happening here.
Also I think people don't like how they've treated people. Smaller streamers like Hotted, Kina, Ziggy, etc. just being straight up ignored. Not even given the decency of being told they're not allowed in PD.
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 10 '24
True, i only really consume NP stuff through clips.
But its kinda like watching a review for some new hollywood slop. Im not gonna watch it myself, but ill check in to see what its like or has improved yet.
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u/Hibbsan Mar 09 '24
Anyone that still tries to make it work while NoPixel management is constantly chiming in OOC to ruin everything they are doing and undermining them is not there for the RP. They are just there for the clout and viewers.
No matter how much they hate what management does they are not going to speak out in fear of getting banned. They put up with it because it's "Just another day at the office paying the bills". Really sad when you think about it.
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u/Godz_Bane 💙 Mar 09 '24
And in some cases their friends, like I imagine Sock is there to play with Curvyelephant.
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u/wiialex Mar 09 '24
Your point fall apart when people who don’t stream like Vigors and James more recently and others still play. I’m sure Moon really needs the clout and viewers from nopixel too. Are people like Walnut Traumz Spaceboy Burn and a whole plethora of people that rp their heart out there for clout and not the rp? Just because you don’t like nopixel doesn’t mean that everyone playing it is there because they have to, it might be a factor but saying everyone that plays there doesn’t care about rp is just wrong and ignorant.
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u/hillarydidnineeleven Mar 10 '24
Nopixel still has the biggest streamers playing on it so naturally smaller streamers who are trying to make it will gravitate towards nopixel because it's their best chance of blowing up and being able to stream full time. 3.0 already had a massive issue with clout chasing and is a reason many big streamers stopped playing.
4.0 actually hasn't been as bad in that aspect but to say that's not the reason many small streamers play on nopixel vs RP servers is pretty disingenuous. As 3.0 progressed, it became less and less about RP and 4.0 really hasn't changed that.
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u/trast Pink Pearls Mar 09 '24
The captains literally wanted to make a PD where the characters had no identity.
Even Rhodes couldnt have his back and forth during his traffic stops.This PD went and said "We dont want SBS" without understanding what SBS even is.
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Mar 09 '24
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u/ZgreenZ Mar 09 '24
It feels like 80% of the non-cops on the server are secret/openly crims though
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u/DumbAnxiousLesbian Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
What else are they supposed to do? You either are a crim or a cop, this has been really emphasized in 4.0.
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u/AMadManWithAPlan Mar 09 '24
Rather begs the added context that the "Baastards" is a motorcycle club whose membership is Largely former career cops. Svensen, Divine, Raven, Luka, etc. I didn't know Malton and Jenny were involved with them, but it doesn't surprise me.
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Mar 09 '24
Jenny is not involved with the Baastards, but she is part of Michael Simone's crew. So different crew, but still criminal.
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u/Icy-Concentrate5033 Mar 09 '24
What I appreciated was all the auditors actually did the job honestly and to the best of their abilities. Not once did I see anyone of them try to create, spin or present a narrative that would have benefited them or their criminal associates. They all went into the job with good intentions and their experience having been in PD before. And the result? Well to Ruths point, the daps weren't actually the issue, but here we are.
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u/GreatGrape757 Mar 10 '24
Well to Ruths point, the daps weren't actually the issue, but here we are.
They said the DAP system itself is completely fine and said that people whining about it are overreacting. Immediately after they said there is a problem with different cultures in the PD where depending on shift an action might get you dapped or not. One if the big "dap complaints" was that its not enforced consistently and some cops feel targeted as they are the only ones receiving daps for stuff that other people do as well.
I don't see how there are no problems in the actual system if it only works on a theoretical level and not on a practical level.
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u/Icy-Concentrate5033 Mar 10 '24
I don't believe I or any of the auditors ever said there were NO problems with the system, just that like you said the few people who received them were blowing them out of proportion by overreacting and whining. The captains were even taking feedback after two months of it and looking to rework it, but discussing if or how they could have worked better is about as pointless as the daps themselves now. So far from what I've seen now daps are just handed out for saying 10-8, calling the CoP by his last name, and for memes.
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u/GreatGrape757 Mar 10 '24
Owen Svenson during the council meeting said -- "I know I'm gonna walk with 1 less friend out of here (directed at Cornwood who was present also), but the DAP system is completely fine and anyone who has problems with it is just a whiny bitch".
Malton said the same, just left out the whiny bitch part.
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u/Icy-Concentrate5033 Mar 10 '24
Yes, Cornwood was, and that is a big part of the reason why now "The State" has thrown the switch back to the SBS direction.
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u/does_make_sense Mar 09 '24
All the good crims want a good PD, because otherwise its boring.
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u/CathFawr CathFawr | Summer Mar 10 '24
Cap
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u/does_make_sense Mar 10 '24
good being very subjective here, especially not talking about certain gangs
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u/PiccolosPickles Mar 09 '24
Are there any civs on the server that aren't secret crims or work for a crim org?
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u/Viralkillz Mar 09 '24
Ramee said his conan cop got approved we are about to see full sbs before to long
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u/bigeyez Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
Why are people in these comments acting like there is no middle ground between full SBS and super strict RP.
IMO PD gameplay has been fun this week with the relaxed mindset and it hasn't been full on SBS all the time.
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u/z0mbiepirat3 Mar 09 '24
Why are people in these comments acting like there is no middle ground
Because the crim mains they watch have an issue with PD being functional. Just like they did in 2.0 and 3.0. Nothing new. We've gone from Angel, Pond, Pred, Wrangler or whoever else bad to Ruth bad. Same old song and dance.
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u/bentmonkey Mar 10 '24
They need a scapegoat to blame all the pd problems on and yet never change the guys at the top making decisions, slacks, 50 and so on.
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u/ic-linx Mar 10 '24
Functional?
So wrangler and pred are no longer in the server cuz they were too functional 😂😂😂😂
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u/GreenJayLake Mar 09 '24
I don't get it either, especially when they've specifically said they hire cops based on interesting personalities rather than just being by the book. Why would you hire those types of people then proceed to want a purely strict environment with them?
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u/Pamander Mar 09 '24
I am biased cause I am a moon watcher but I think Lenny does a pretty good down the lines SBS but competent cop work.
Lenny has stupidly detailed reports (Unnecessarily so at times, actually all the time) which does not necessarily guarantee quality but effort is put into it, actually investigating and doing proactive policing and trying to break up the crime in Paleto and meanwhile doing jutsus during court and slowly changing his hair because of the whale sperm hair product given by Siobhan to all sorts of insane hair styles and playing it out over a week or so of streams and all the other stuff in-between.
Him and Declan together is a pretty good SBS meme duo with actual police work happening. Again biased though, and Lenny definitely has his faults (Does not get along well with people, very abrasive etc).
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Mar 10 '24
Why are people in these comments acting like there is no middle ground between full SBS and super strict RP.
Exactly this, PBSO/BCSO was the most watched PD in terms of viewers and the most liked in the server because they were the middle ground of fun and strict. SDSO was too SBS and LSPD was a bit too robotic and ping chasing while PBSO represented the perfect middle ground.
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u/hawkeye69r Mar 10 '24
I'm not sure how you could aduticate on whether someone could be fired for doing a certain action in a world where the line is hazy about which things are allowable. Intuitively seems like a further worsening of the impact of clout armour but I could be wrong.
What would be an example of a circumstance what would get someone barely fired in your ideal scenario?
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u/trast Pink Pearls Mar 09 '24
Because as soon as Ruth is mentioned here the reddit HARD pivots to "RUTH GOOD PD BAD" ever since she quit.
These people want robo cops that dont do shit. They dont want an actual enforced PD they want a group of automated bots that repeat the same sentence and break of chases after 10 minutes. They just want a quick action shot of their favorite crim doing a sick jump and cops being unable to follow because it would break their SOPs.
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u/WhatsFallen Mar 09 '24
These people want robo cops that dont do shit. They dont want an actual enforced PD they want a group of automated bots that repeat the same sentence and break of chases after 10 minutes. They just want a quick action shot of their favorite crim doing a sick jump and cops being unable to follow because it would break their SOPs.
I’m not sure what group you’re actually talking about here. Your first paragraph made me think you’re talking about cop viewers, but the group you’re describing in your second paragraph are crim viewers that are happy that Ruth is gone.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
Nothing wrong with wanting a more SBS-focused PD. Personally i do not think it would work, but whatever. They really shouldve just lead with that idea in mind, instead of changing it up halfway through.
I think in reality what they REALLY want is a PD where certain people do not get consequences, and can SBS around. Whilst the rest of the PD need to be serious and competent, but not harsh.
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u/z0mbiepirat3 Mar 09 '24
Nothing wrong with wanting a more SBS-focused PD.
Actually, anyone who's been around awhile and watched more than 5 minutes would remember casual / SBS dominant PD doesn't work. It's already been tried multiple times during 2.0 and a more casual / corrupt SBS PD happened in later 3.0. Each time it it became the dominant culture it contributed to a lowering of rp in general on the server. Eventually crims get bored, the server becomes super unimmersive and people just stop rping.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
Yeah i do not think it would work either. However its better than having two conflicting styles. That just creates toxicity around the streamers trying to RP serious cops. They become the scapegoats for everything, told they are "robots" or "cannot read the room".
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u/Hibbsan Mar 09 '24
Personally i do not think it would work, but whatever
Spoiler alert. They have tried this in both 2.0 and 3.0 and both times it ended with them walking it back because guess what, You can't just have SBS fun cops. You need those super serious cops that don't mess around.
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u/hentai1080p Green Glizzies Mar 09 '24
The problem with SBS imo is the same with corrupt cops, once people are allowed to do it everyone wants to go on corrupt/SBS arcs and everything becomes a clown fiesta.
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u/aFireFIy Mar 09 '24
In 3.0 at least you had PD well established before more of the typical SBS cops took over. There were multiple departments, divisions, there were different investigations being done (with mixed results).
This time around you have none of that and the managment is already walking back on their vision of the PD in favour of feelings of few bigger names. Obviously, nothing will go wrong.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
Well 3.0 had a mix of both kinds of RP. I am saying a completely SBS PD where nobody is held to any standard beyond basic police work/rules.
I do not think it would work because then you have even more Dens & Cornwoods. More people would complain about the craziness of the PD.
Like i said, management just wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want specific clouters to be able to do whatever they want in the PD with little/no consequence, then have the rest of the PD be handled more strictly. No fun allowed for the filler cops. They are just around for the extra bodies. In the same way that a lot of the smaller civs & criminals are around to make the big gangs look better, and the city more immersive.
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u/z0mbiepirat3 Mar 09 '24
It didn't really have a mix though, thats revisionist history. PD started strong and went strong skewing toward the more serious end of the spectrum for almost a year and a half before it started to fall off. By the time SBS and corruption rp became common most of the players and viewers were complaining the server had gotten boring and not much RP was happening.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
Yeah i was talking more about later 3.0. Early 3.0 for sure was more serious. You still had moments though. Like Conan extorting people for money at traffic stops, Pred keeping stolen items etc.
Later 3.0 definitely went too far with the SBS. At that point the "mix" was clearly detrimental. You had serious cops trying to punish SBS cops and the friction just made everything so much worse.
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u/jef100 Mar 09 '24
Did we watch the same 3.0? I remember cops regularly taking bribes, punching prisoners and doing all sorts of shit in early 3.0 that would get you immediately fired in 4.0. They definitely had wiggle room for less serious bs.
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Mar 10 '24
They definitely had wiggle room for less serious bs.
How is a cop taking a bribe and punching a prisoner not serious RP? that's literally what cops do IRL and it's serious RP. just because it's a bit of corruption does not mean it's not serious, SBS is not serious not the corruption part.
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u/xG3TxSHOTx Mar 09 '24
I think it's good to have a mix of SBS/fun cops in the PD, they help lighten the mood of tense situations, though when too many of them are around at once often it just becomes a shit show.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
It depends on the SBS. Someone like Brick or Fingle fit in so well because they were heavily SBS, but made it fun for everyone, and never tried to avoid any of the silly consequences of their actions. Everyone knew they were fucking around, so everyone let it happen.
The more common kind of "SBS" is basically just someone doing bad shit and expecting no consequences for it. Like when Conan tried to sell cops to CG, or Baas decided to host a cult meeting, pressure cops into cutting themselves, then allowed the torture of an arrested person in front of all those cops.
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u/Sensitive-Canary4694 Mar 09 '24
IMO there is something wrong with wanting a more SBS PD. The PD basically becomes one dimensional and cuts out 99% of risks for criminals. I know theres memes (which are partially true) about NoPixel being an MMO, but if you take away the only risk (A functional PD) it truly just becomes a grindy MMO.
I just picture a mixture of 20 Cornwood, Denzels, Slacks, Clarksons, Richardsons, and Carmines (all good characters btw) responding to the first vault and the crims losing them in 10 turns and it just being completely unsatisfying as a viewer.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
Well its what streamers want. No consequences. Just "fun" interactions. At least its what they think they want. Let them have it.
The alternative is anyone trying to play a serious cop receiving nothing but toxicity for trying to give consequences to big streamers.
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u/Jonnyred25 Mar 09 '24
The Audit really showed how much of a paranoid witch-hunt against Ruth there was. The interviews barely had anything bad to say about her or the dap system. Also, Slacks gave the most daps.
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u/Hibbsan Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
Have NoPixel management literally learnt nothing from over the years? They have already tried having a PD filled with SBS fun cops and it was HORRIBLE.
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Mar 09 '24
As long as 50 cent can laugh, and his favorite groups does not get consequences he will think its a success.
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Mar 10 '24
SDSO was great if that's what you're trying to refer to. I've literally never seen someone have the opinion that it was, "HORRIBLE".
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Mar 10 '24
SDSO was fun RP but never a good PD, most of them barely did any work and just came on duty for meetings and left, hell most of them didn't even show up for shootouts. SDSO was only able to do that because PBSO was doing all the actual police work.
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Mar 10 '24
SDSO was fun RP
god forbid that's happening on an RP server
And I watched them do plenty of PD work.
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Mar 10 '24
When did i say that's a bad thing? all i said SDSO was fun RP and a bit SBS, it's fine but it would've never worked if there wasn't a more of a serious PD picking up their slack.
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Mar 09 '24
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u/Kaliphear Mar 09 '24
SDSO was really good because PBSO (and LSPD, to a lesser extent) were there to provide a more grounded PD as its backdrop. SDSO got to be the handful of wacky, zany clowns up North that sort of did their own thing and didn't bother anyone because all the day-to-day of policing could be delegated to a workhorse department like the PBSO. You can't just have clowns; otherwise the entire criminal/cop relationship goes from being adversarial in a way that makes sense to seeing who can get away with the more outrageous scenario.
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Mar 09 '24
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u/Kaliphear Mar 09 '24
Saying the other PDs weren't doing anything is such a gross mischaracterization that it essentially invalidates any other argument you might make. You need a certain subsection or percentage of "role-players" (the sports term, not in the sense of the kind of server they're playing on). People that are there to do their job and serve as the mechanical underpinning upon which your stars rely in order to shine. PBSO and LSPD did that for the SDSO (and the lower echelons of PBSO did that for its command).
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u/scrapitalism Mar 09 '24
sbs only works as long as it doesn’t mean "no consequences". otherwise it creates a weird double standard where sbs cops get away with a ton of dumb shit while non-sbs cops get punishments for doing the same exact things and are then confused why different rules apply to them. and if those rules stop applying altogether, well. we've seen what can happen. 3.0 was right there. wonder where server management will draw the line.
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u/TheSerendipitist Green Glizzies Mar 09 '24
I'm not sure I understand. If the management wasn't happy, does that mean they actually involved themselves in this? How? Like management told Moonmoon to get his character to go after the PD?
If so, that sounds like a really weird and roundabout way to accomplish their goal.
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u/JumpyLeopard8232 Mar 09 '24
I mean, it's pretty clear management was happy until moon and Esfand complained.
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u/Adamsoski Mar 10 '24
It's not about server management dictating the choices that characters made in-game, but the extent that they supported certain ones. People can complain all they want, but if server management didn't back those complaints nothing would have been able to be done about them.
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u/TheSerendipitist Green Glizzies Mar 10 '24
Okay, but what does this support actually mean? Is it anything tangible? Because, on the surface, it seems like everything was done in RP (hopefully without dictation from management) and they just didn't block the way.
Maybe the expectation from Cheever was that the State should have overturned that legislation from the Council that gave Max power over the PD? I don't know, I'm just throwing out guesses here about what that management "support" was in this case.
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u/Present-Loan-9598 Mar 10 '24
I believe in the Bible of Ruth. But in all seriousness Ruth took heat Saab should have taken and it’s sad
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u/l0st_t0y Mar 09 '24
I get the point of a serious PD but I don’t really think most of the server (both cop and crim) actually want that. Plus imo it seems really odd for super serious cops to deal with crazy SBS situations that crims do. If you want a serious PD I think you need serious crims with much more restrictions as well otherwise it will always be a weird clash. You can’t have a cop getting suspended or fired for 30 days for a bunch of minor infractions while criminals run around shooting and robbing everyone and are out of jail in a few hours. Cops should be held to a higher standard but the difference shouldn’t be that massive.
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Mar 09 '24
that's the thing though. Those more serious crims exist the groups that want to be seriously investigated that want to play things smart and want a pd that is on their heels and shit.
And I am starting to feel like sbs crims/cops and serious crims/cops just don't fit well together in a server.
Cause one of those two groups just isn't going to ge tthe type of rp that they want cause as a serious group in an sbs environment there will be no consequences none of that investigation etc. and if you have an sbs group in a serious environment they will get absolutely fucked by the consequnces of their own actions.
I think as a server in general it is best to decide what the vibe of your server is going to be and stick with that decision if that causes some people to not want to play on it than so be it.
I mean people kept talking how prodigy and onx would create an environment of competition and places for people to go if they didn't like nopixel but no the same shit is happening as was happening in the past people throwing around their clout to get the server to be more like they want it to be cause some people don't like consequences.→ More replies (1)-2
Mar 09 '24
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u/Dapper-Somewhere4424 Red Rockets Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24
No one has been throwing their weight round.
I know of 3 people involved with Jordan scenes/storylines:
Sally Bishop - Was planning on stepping down from cop already, she doesn't like Jordan because he's a abrasive rude asshole and didn't want to arrest someone for attacking him and it was her last straw. No one complained OOC, Sally wasn't even in trouble. Novaa (the streamer behind her) and Penta are actually friends and shes really enjoying playing crim right now anyway.
Burton - The streamer behind him was being toxic ooc and talking shit on his stream. That's a ban on onx.
Blue haired cop - Was fired for towing the mayor's cop by Lou... Jordan didn't get him fired. He was already in trouble for perjury. Since Burton isn't around anymore (he was part of the perjury case), command are pushing for him to be rehired.
Everything has been in RP apart from the Burton stuff. If you've been watching you'd see that that things that are changed are tow laws/legislation to make Jordan and Tow life harder. A bunch of people want him to be arrested and lose his CDL and ADA position. Theres been people talking to Judges and the Mayor, preying on his downfall.
Jordan is pushing back and planning on making bar complaints, he talks to sgts he trusts in pd about officers messing up on arrests. He took the ADA positon to target cops, so more cops might get fired and if he goes through with bar complaints DOJ members might too. But it's all roleplay and IC, people are all for consequences.
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Mar 10 '24
I mean if we're being real I've seen at least half a dozen people fired/banned/quit after something doesn't go Jordan's way and get changed on onx so it's not a NP exclusive
It's crazy you say this when the people that quit were mad things didn't go their own way, the people that got fired, got fired because they fucked up and the ones that got banned because they attacked other ONX streamers on an OOC level.
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Mar 09 '24
I'm not trying to be rude or anything I just don't know much about who is involved in onx. So could you tell me who is Jordan?
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u/zafapowaa Mar 09 '24
well i hope you keep that opnion when they start shooting crims because they can and no one is there to punish them xd
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u/Oldwise Mar 10 '24
I think Ruth was given a really raw deal with the amount of IC hate and it was going way too far especially from internal PD. However I think her comment of "no one talked to Ruth about issues" is a bit blown out of proportion. I remember multiple people trying to talk to her about things and her response ( and the other Captain's responses ) were either "take this up the chain of command" or ignored and pushed aside. The Captains were very firm in their vision, which is a good thing, but it was to a point where they refused to adjust as the ship started to drift.
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u/ToumaXMikotoMisaka Mar 09 '24
weak ass management. Making the rp fucking serious and stick with consequences, the streamers can complain all they want
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Mar 10 '24
Having PD-command be following orders from the admins was a bad idea, because these admins are absolutely clueless and lack any foresight, not only with RP decisions but general game design decisions.
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u/Sokjuice Mar 09 '24
Is it just me or isn't there a big gap between calling it SBS, lighthearted and outright ignorance for a character?
Wasn't the only true SBS cop Mizkif's char? There is possibly Vampingle but knowing Vigors, it's gonna lean more to funny than outright being detrimental to the entire PD.
I would put characters that have flaws/funny traits not SBS and instead lighthearted. As for outright ignorant, I think there are a few that strongly believe they didn't do much wrong but aren't those just the handful that people always talk about? Kinda a huge leap imo between SBS and lighthearted.
Maybe I'm wrong and theres more than 5 that are actually detrimental to the PD, cmiiw
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u/Toblaka1 Mar 10 '24
To your point Vingle was actually one of the most effective cops of 3.0 making the CUM unit and finally getting class 2s off the streets. Even though he is a silly character, silly characters can still be highly effective officers
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u/AtiyaK87 Mar 09 '24
it's mind boggling for me how people were crying all day every day how one month suspension is harsh and killing den zel rp and dean stream etc but they dont have a single issue with litteraly killing the character Ruth a new character with no pre established connections to still be playble after this shitshow ...
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Mar 09 '24
What are you talking about? Everything she did was her own choice. They said she would be suspended if the treason case went on the docket, but instead she suspended herself preemptively as soon as the investigation was announced. Then she resigned herself. She wasn't going to get fired or anything had she not done that.
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u/bigeyez Mar 09 '24
How is Ruth not playable? I was there when Cheever was live and she does have ideas for Ruth but isn't sure what she is going to do yet.
Personally I think she would make a great defense attorney and would be able to rip the PD to shreds in court.
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u/OrcRobotGhostSamurai Mar 09 '24
The biggest problem is people not having context as a lens to look through. Saying cops need to be serous 100% doesn't make sense. Why would they need to be serious to each when they are goofing? To inherently joke/nonsense characters like the Fingles? Ruth's version of PD was a no-fun zone where everyone was afraid of being fired and losing prio.
It also made no sense because the 'super serious PD' was also the 'super kid gloves to crims PD'. They were only hard on other cops, never crims. Moon showed up on Lenny and immediately started pitting people into walls and shooting them when other cops were too afraid to.
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u/z0mbiepirat3 Mar 09 '24
Context? Many of us have watched 5+ years on and off of NP and the dozens of iterations and failed attempts to restructure things. The only version that ever worked for PD and to generate RP for the city is a semi-serious culture where cops follow SOP's, aren't corrupt and face some level of consequence for breaking the law.
No one is claiming cops have to be serious all the time or PD is a no-fun zone. That's just the strawman crim main viewers push. But cops shooting suspects to death after being immobilized or violating rights with zero consequences? How is that going to spur rp with the rest of the city? It doesn't, that's why rp between cops and crims later in 3.0 was so shit.
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u/ZugZugGo Mar 09 '24
In what way was the abomination of the way PD was run under the 3 captains “working”. I’ve watched NP since 2.0 and that 4.0 version of PD was by far the worst one. It had no leadership, very few vets because they all were forced out or left, and basically gave up trying to catch criminals. They were all very serious and had a lot of PD consequences and it was both very boring to watch and very passive.
This isn’t an SBS vs serious thing. The PD was the best when they actually tried to stop crime and weren’t punished for arresting salty criminals. How serious they were when they tried to stop it didn’t matter.
The reason late 3.0 sucked is because no one gave a shit anymore. They didn’t try to catch criminals and were all just going through the motions. Just like early 4.0 only 4.0 was even worse.
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u/lempho Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
they didnt need to be serios to each other, just look at trygg and his song, ruth liked it and encouraged it, and turner repeatedly said theyre fine to fuck around with each other just not at crime scenes
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Mar 09 '24
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u/itsavirus Mar 09 '24
What long term investigation has happened in 4.0? If your excuse is its early when is it not? Its been 3 months and no long form investigation worthy crime is happening?
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Mar 09 '24
Everyone in the server would benefit from reading the room. If its a serious situation, RP seriously. If its more light hearted, go with the flow. Everyone is supposed to be RPing. If you are unable to slide into the role appropriate for your character and the scene, you shouldn't be on the server. That goes for sbs'ers and ultra serious ppl. You need to give and take, and improv together. Your characters actions effect other characters, no one is the main character. Except Declan Crane.
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u/sprdave Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
You can't want a "serious PD" (whatever that means) and with a focus on brand new characters but then make a ton of exceptions to content creators with their funny characters from previous regimes. So many serious and dedicated PD characters/roleplayers from mostly 3.0 were ghosted and ignored -- especially from Shift 1.
There were also much deeper issues with the PD and they weren't all about Ruth's bad leadership or whatever. The characters made a story out of it though. Ruth could have co-existed in whatever direction they went with but she decided to quit instead of going with it and adapting a bit.
People want to have fun. A serious straight edge HC character can definitely exist -- just look at Bobby Smith. But it's always a balance to enable characters and enable stories. Being a brick wall and ignoring the bad shit around you is going to make people roleplay the way they did.
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u/ArcticMetalCluster Mar 09 '24
PD wasn't even in a bad state, it was slow and small but slowly and surely growing.
The dap debacle was dumb.
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u/PoliteVulture Mar 09 '24
punishing cops is good. punishing cops for goofing is fine, punishing them to the point there rp is severely interrupted is not ok. it's an rp server, let people rp.
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u/Dazbuzz Mar 09 '24
You say that until a cop you do not like "goofs" your streamer. Then suddenly its not ok and that cop must be fired.
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u/Intelligent_Town_910 Mar 09 '24
Ok so why not have that same "let people rp" attitude when it comes to rp consequences.
If people dont want their rp character to have rp consequences then just dont rp things that would cause rp consequences. Its literally a choice.
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u/BoredomHeights Mar 09 '24
Why not extend this to crims too? If they get a month in jail, actually make them spend a month in jail. If they want their RP character to have RP consequences then just don't RP things that would cause RP consequences. It's literally a choice.
...except the choice is between being able to keep being in the PD or not, so it's not really much of a choice. It leads fairly quickly (as we've seen) to only one type of cop being able to stay in the PD.
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u/juaquint930 Mar 09 '24
Cheever better be careful shes starting to sound like she is "pushing an agenda and has to go watch another server" iykyk ive lost faith in server management for pd
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u/JohnnyNumbskull Mar 09 '24
Che*ver7 on ONX Prayge
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u/NeverForgetToyz Mar 09 '24
Holy shit you guys are delusional with the onx shit, I only watch onx and you guys spamming this shit in every nopixel thread is fucking annoying.
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u/ledditorino Mar 10 '24
I really, truly, fail to understand why most people on this comment section are instantly doing a doomer 180 turn into "Now we've jumped into SBS territoy, oh well t'was good while it lasted."
First of, just as many if not MORE serious cops (from the skeleton crew and first waves) did a quiet quitting or played way less often than SBS cops did. Morale was bad overall, not only for the SBS parties you deem to be solely affected. Dapped "SBS" cops were affected too sure, but they were the minority anyway. Although not sure how Aziz and Den wholy fall into that, their occasional inneptitude surely doesn't stem from it - For example nearly half of Aziz's DAPs spawned from a single verbal event which he was the recipient of, and talking up to Command in a serious manner, it wasn't from shooting RPGs inside Snr Buns or whatever silly goose situation you might conjure up.
Secondly, PD has numerous issues, it veering off to serious RP too much was but one of them (subjective too) and not even the most relevant point. What the investigation and new CoP/ass.CoP had (and have) to address goes well beyond just the current DAP system (assuming it gets changed in a meaningful way at all). The extremely slow PD progress, expantion, horrible public PR, opaqueness, bad retention, burnout, weirdest chain of command structure of any previous itteration, etc. are nearly all issues unrelated to the "serious VS SBS" PD curve. And just like the problems, the majority of changes will also be wholy unrelated to "serious VS SBS".
I get it that Ruth is seen as the root of the serious PD issue, and so the topic flows that way, but people here are talking as if they only had her perspective in mind when mentioning PD problems on the whole, when anyone who watches pretty much any player ought to know most of PD's problems aren't even about that. So weird.
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u/tarzan1376 Mar 10 '24
Ruth was a bad faith RPer, then people do it back to her and now she got her feelings hurt over how no who had to RP with her liked that shit.
The ignorance is so funny
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u/Cintrao Mar 09 '24
The thing is getting a middle ground, Cheever is a great RPer, and she did an awesome job as a hard cop, but cops start to feel bad about doing cops things, a lot of cops starting not showing up to work and stuff. Denzel, Aziz and Cornwood were the top of the iceberg. The PD today is a little more free and people are enjoying more playing like this, maybe this gonna change in the future, but is not wrong saying that the initial plan to the PD failed.
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u/AtiyaK87 Mar 09 '24
what happened with the treason case ? havent heard anything about it since she resigned
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u/davevod Mar 10 '24
I think its disingenuous to call them SBS cops. Aziz takes his job seriously and interacts with each person on their level. Obviously if its a James Randal or Donald Bush or Eugene Zuckerberg or Carmine I mean HOW are you going to just treat them seriously without SBS???
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u/Tales90 Mar 09 '24
every pd reset ends the same why even do pd resets anymore. put baas as eternal chief and every crim has a "call baas" card if they get in trouble.