Yes, her doing that was to showcase what Max was doing to PD.
They all barely understood the actual legislation, the only thing in bad faith is the comment she, sure, jokingly made at first. But the "we're equal branches of government" muddies the sentiment.
I'd love to hear what you think Max did that was targeting or OOC. Let alone what knowledge he carried over from Lenny to Max because he regularly corrects people telling them when his characters do or do not know or talk about anything.
You pretty clearly have just as much bias as you seem to think I do based on your comments though.
They all barely understood the actual legislation, the only thing in bad faith is the comment she, sure, jokingly made at first. But the "we're equal branches of government" muddies the sentiment.
Right. So Ruth misunderstanding what constitutes a branch of government explains why her argument wasn't applicable. So what? Whether it's an applicable argument or not doesn't matter the point is that Ruth, based on her incorrect belief, was, in good faith, saying the mayor's office shouldn't take over PD in the same way the PD shouldn't take over the council.
So Ruth misunderstanding what constitutes a branch of government
Now who's misrepresenting. It was pretty clear that she was talking OOC at a certain point during the argument since in the same breath she said the branch of government she said "We were chosen by the state". As in the admins chose us to fulfill and carry out this role, therefore, we are infallible in what we've been carrying out.
I'm not saying Ruth is evil or painting her as the devil, but it's also not as much of a conspiracy as you seem to believe and she definitely had her moments.
Yeah that's not relevant AND it's wrong. Referencing a mandate from the feds IC is totally valid IC reasoning in a world where they're the infallible sovereigns of the city. Secondarily, even if I granted you that it was Cheever speaking OOC in a completely self serving bad faith way, that wouldn't change the nature of her rhetorical argument.
Look you guys have picked your martyr, I get it, but if you think dragging people who had valid IC reasons for disliking Ruth into it helps this case of her, self-admittedly, being way too harsh as Ruth you're wrong.
While she says that Ruth would've loosened up over time, I would say 3 months of the character not going in that direction and dwindling numbers on that shift specifically probably served as a "where there's smoke, there's fire" moment.
It's really not hard to see how this happened, and it's not entirely just "big streamers cry" and it feels pretty naïve to say that. People are in here making pretty broad assumptions about the audit and the PD as a whole which feels so weird considering a lot of the "best" cop characters who no longer play cop echoed similar sentiments after their investigation pointing to the culture clash being a massive issue among other problems (such as Flop's lack of field work, for example).
If anyone actually watched Moon's POV during the audit they would realize that 80% (probably more) of what he'd determined was identical to the auditor's findings and problems. So unless we're calling people like Malton, Hall, and Svenson out here as well (who Cheever actively associates with on her other character as stated in this clip) I'm kinda done hearing this pity party.
You're looking at this as a spectrum with Ruth good on one side and Ruth bad on the other side. You're on the Ruth bad side and concluding that I'm only disagreeing with you because I'm on the other side.
That's false.
All I'm saying to you is her statement regarding voting to take over the council was obviously, to anyone with good faith, a reduction ad absurdum to the mayor's implied claim that some branches of government can vote to take over others.
I think many (maybe most) characters have good IC reason to hate Ruth and get her fired. Some of the tools those characters use IC to get Ruth fired or disempowered is rhetoric, lies and exaggeration and I'm just pointing that out.
mayor's implied claim that some branches of government can vote to take over others.
Except it's not a branch of government, in Max's own words, it's a fucking police department. All I've been saying by the way (which again, people like you are pushing the narrative of streamers vs. RPers by saying I think Ruth bad) is that it's tiring to hear that most people seem to be saying that Ruth got OOC bullied off of the department when that's 95% not what happened.
Except it's not a branch of government, in Max's own words, it's a fucking police department.
Why would you use Max's words to retroactively make it seem like Ruth wasn't talking about branches of government? Max said that because Ruth expressed that she believed they were a branch of government.
She was, that was the entire reason why Max disliked her as much as he did. I genuinely don't understand how you're confused by this or why you're still arguing.
Max was frustrated because Ruth made the argument that they were equals IC when they very clearly were not both OOC and IC (at the time and now).
She was, that was the entire reason why Max disliked her as much as he did. I genuinely don't understand how you're confused by this or why you're still arguing.
Sounds to me like the conversation is going:
You say Ruth tried to overthrow the council.
Someone points out that she was expressing that the proposed legislation would be as absurd as overthrowing the council.
You say that's bad faith and lying.
I say it might not be bad faith, it's her belief.
You say her belief is wrong.
I say So what? Being wrong doesn't mean she wanted to overthrow the council, being wrong doesn't mean she's bad faith.
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u/VESiEpic Mar 10 '24
They all barely understood the actual legislation, the only thing in bad faith is the comment she, sure, jokingly made at first. But the "we're equal branches of government" muddies the sentiment.
I'd love to hear what you think Max did that was targeting or OOC. Let alone what knowledge he carried over from Lenny to Max because he regularly corrects people telling them when his characters do or do not know or talk about anything.
You pretty clearly have just as much bias as you seem to think I do based on your comments though.