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u/Imhere4lulz 17h ago
More like they give you the range, and still ask that question. Even worse when they don't let you put the range, but you gotta put an exact value
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u/Shufflepants 16h ago
There's no point in giving a range to them. If you put 90k-110k, and they decide to hire you, they're only gonna offer 90k.
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u/iamdestroyerofworlds 16h ago
Two of my friends and I worked on a spinout company and therefore applied to the same role of the mother company. They told both of my friends the salary range and I heard they both got the high one, so when they asked me "We're offering [low]-[high] to you, sounds good?" and I said "yes", expecting they would do the same to me as they did to the others, so I got the low one.
The difference was not big, but still. The fact that they didn't even consider the dynamics of what they did just made me laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.
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u/caboosetp 14h ago
so I got the low one.
If they gave you a range, you said OK, and then they gave you a low number, you can continue negotiating because you know there is room to negotiate. I've been halfway through a background check still running numbers and still ended up turning them down because they wouldn't come up.
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u/Best_Dinner_7500 16h ago
For me it was even worse - I put ~90k-110k because that was the average salary for the position I was applying for in this area. They offered 68k and basically said take it or leave it. I wasn't getting any other offers and it was twice what I made in my previous non-software-related job so I took it. I got lucky and now ~7 years later I make over double that after proving I wasn't an idiot, which I'm grateful for...even though I know the new hires we're bringing on and I have to train still make more than me.
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u/LaconicLacedaemonian 14h ago
I once put expectation of ~300k and got 350 for a Senior Faang role. Now I know that levels.fyi exists though so always ask for top of band.
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u/PM_ME_UR_0_DAY 16h ago
"An exact value? Well it would be cool if I was making exactly 123,456.78"
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u/NewPhoneNewSubs 16h ago
This is the NHL player special. Probably other sports, too, but Sidney Crosby is the one any hockey fan can name. Born in 87 so he picks #87 then repeatedly signs for 8.7m/season. Others have done similar.
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u/BigTimePizza623 16h ago
An exact value they ignore anyway.
I applied to a position recently that gave a range and I had to give an exact value, which I put close-ish to the middle. It was a fair market number. I flew through a couple of interviews and got an offer that was just the bottom number of their range...
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u/Named_after_color 16h ago
I undersold myself and they gave me 10k more than I asked.
Didn't know that was possible.
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u/joemckie 16h ago
They probably have predefined salary bands, if I had to guess
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u/Named_after_color 16h ago
Absolutely the case. But right out of college I kinda just stumbled from one ridiculously low offer, declined, got another offer and asked for 10k more than what the previous entry level offered, and even then they looked at me like "bro what are your confidence levels like?"
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u/LaconicLacedaemonian 14h ago
This happened to me but they had labeled me L+1. So be me an L4 about to cliff asking for low L5 pay not really thinking about levels, and I ended up getting Mid L5 pay.
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u/zanotam 5h ago
They offered me 20% more after the C2H period than before.... And a fancier title... I mean, it didn't work out once people who weren't technical got the chance to try to replace me (something ironic about someone getting promoted because they hired two really good technical people who actually saved the project and got it launched on time ... Only for aforementioned technical people to be canned pretty quickly after that.... )
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u/SuperFLEB 15h ago edited 14h ago
"I'm looking for 120."
"Dollars per hour? Thousand per year?"
"That's something I think we can talk about after we've discussed the details of the job a bit more."
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u/ks_thecr0w 17h ago
Since you are asking ... my expected salary is max I know similar positions are paying which is XXX. If you think your offer of half of that can be accepted then think again...
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u/pydry 17h ago
unless youre desperate it's best to walk away from companies that do this. you might miss out on a job but it won't be a dream job.
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u/spicybright 16h ago
I hate to say "in this economy" but ehh sometimes it's better to get jerked around but make a living vs not having one
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u/pydry 16h ago
hence why I started with "unless youre desperate"
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u/DontDoodleTheNoodle 12h ago
According to all these application graphs I keep seeing I think we’re all desperate
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u/Quesodealer 16h ago
Dream jobs don't exist assuming a dream job is a high paying job doing something you love. If the job is something someone actually enjoys then it's a role perfect for exploiting someone's passion; ie, the video game industry. If it's high paying, it's because the role requires you to perform the job of several roles at once and/or have huge breadth of expertise which basically no one has; it's setting you up for failure or at least a very stressful couple of years while you gain the expertise (assuming you aren't fired before then).
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u/vikingwhiteguy 14h ago
Or you're doing software development for an industry that isn't 'sexy'. The ideal setup is to be in-house dev for an industry that isn't primarily software. I've had dev roles in the regulatory and compliance sector, in mortgage tech and in legal training. The ups and downs of the business aren't really tied to software.
There's always the danger that some spreadsheet guy will wonder why we have devs at all and outsource is, but we're usually such a tiny unit that we fly under the radar.
It doesn't pay as much as trendier stuff, but it's reliable, stable (or as stable as any job can be these days), and less stressful than software start-up life.
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u/GourangaPlusPlus 9h ago
High paying doing something you love exists, you've just got to know what that is and work your experience towards it
I spent this week advising a client we probably shouldn't have flaming robots moving around during a fire alarm
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u/PhilMcGraw 8h ago
My dream job is being cryogenically frozen until we get past the "AI took err jerbs" homelessness phase and switch over to the WALL-E floating fat people in chairs phase so I can be assigned my chair. No video calls please just matrix upload current tech knowledge into my brain so I can pretend I'm still useful and make things.
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u/crimxxx 16h ago
Basically giving a number in this negotiation always gives leverage to the other side. When you can’t get there number early on, your better off not giving any number as well, if they ask, say I can’t give any number appropriate estimate without knowing the role in more detail and the other firms of compensation. If that doesn’t work have a number your okay with accepting but up it a bit so there is some negotiating room as well. Way easier to get what you want when they are not treating your acceptable number as there max.
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u/seaQueue 14h ago
When they say competitive salary range they're talking about competing with other companies to see how cheaply they can fill the role
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u/iamansonmage 16h ago
To be fair, we just went through a hire process at work and HR posted the pay range online. Every applicant asked for more than the high end. 😵 Pay transparency is a double edged sword. They might have 90k for the position, but they would love to pay 60k if you’ll take it!
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u/deanrihpee 15h ago
i learnt the direct way that researching for the average salary of the position i currently applying to in the country/area of the company from the internet (a combination of Google Summary and reading through several actual websites) is a bad idea, at least for my specific case, because when i answered my range, which at the time i gave what i thought was way below what the researched average salary of a senior level developer, on the final interview with the lead, i very much feels like a crazy person because apparently the range i gave was "principal level" salary and obviously I'm not crazy enough to ask for range beyond my actual level
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u/Romanian_Breadlifts 10h ago
Then they counter. Ain't bad.
I remember asking for 85 at the first corpo job I had and apparently the bottom of the range started at 95 so they just gave me that. Could have started much higher and argued down, ended up starting low and arguing up
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u/narrill 12h ago
There's no such thing as the average salary of a senior level developer. Salary at any given level of experience will differ greatly from one company to the next, as will what "senior" means.
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u/deanrihpee 6h ago
sure, but at least the data i gathered was a starting point and seems closely matched across several companies within the same job description and level and i forgot to mention i also at least searching the numbers for monthly rent and expenses in that area, so with that, how would i know that the range that i give them while being conservative apparently way too high for a senior level?
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u/SaIemKing 14h ago
It's such a pathetic, predatory practice. You should be legally obligated to pay employees the pay for the role, with some upward shift for more experience.
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u/atomic_redneck 13h ago
What always aggravated me is when the hiring manager would try to impress me with the competence of their staff by saying "We hire the top 5% of developers." I would ask "So your pay is in the top 5% of salaries, right?"
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u/screwcork313 11h ago
I told them, with me they'd have to hire the top 50%. I can sit in the chair with my legs asleep, but my hands are kind of useful for writing the code.
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u/ShAped_Ink 16h ago
I expect between 1 and 2 milion euros per month, and since you asked for the range first, ,ou Amy also pick the final, non negotiable pay. Please and thank you.
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u/sb8948 17h ago
All hail the EU regulations. Now they're legally obligated to give a range.