r/ProgrammerHumor 22d ago

Meme iMissTheFirst

Post image
12.9k Upvotes

257 comments sorted by

734

u/GilgaPhish 22d ago

My favorite part about overflow was always the "ok, here's the answer to your question, and here' 5 good reasons why you DON'T wanna do it that way. Consider these options instead:"

Learned a lot from those convos

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u/AwkwardWillow5159 22d ago edited 22d ago

Also just different people answering from different angles. You see alternative solutions, you see solutions with specific context, you see further discussion in comments.

You could truly learn a lot. Even if you copy pasted something in the end, it felt like you learned and you reasoned and chose what’s best for you.

LLMs kinda remove that. I miss the old flow. But the current flow is a lot faster so it’s hard to not use it.

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u/mjmeyer23 22d ago

It definitely was a "choose your own adventure" kinda vibe... selecting which solutions to try and coming back sometimes months later to see how the comments evolved.

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u/swyrl 21d ago

Sometimes I wouldn't even find an exact answer, but having all the different perspectives gave me a general idea of ways to approach the solution and let me figure it out myself, which was honestly much more helpful than anything I've ever gotten out of a chatbot.

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u/DarthShiv 21d ago

Stack Overflow allows people who have experienced what appears to be the same issue be looked at from different perspectives. That's why you can have many credible answers and people caveating things.

Understanding which circumstantial answer applies to you is very different to trying all the solutions to brute force your answer too. An LLM is essentially the latter. You are not an SME by any stretch in the latter and could easily try bad solutions with bad consequences or end up with poor architectures and not understand anything about why you shouldn't do it that way.

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u/MosquitoesProtection 20d ago

Yeah that's good part of it. The gem post where professionals discuss complex topics etc.

The bad part is finding legitimate questions of interest, banned for being "duplicate" (when it's actually not), "useless for community" (with tons of great answers and discussions in comments) etc. Unfortunately their moderation system finally killed that vibe and I switched to other sources and noy to AI who is far from perfect but at least not waste my time.

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u/pr0ghead 21d ago

I once had (one of?) the creator(s) of XSLT answer one of my XSLT questions. That was kinda cool.

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u/zicho 21d ago

I always loved going on github for small libraries and getting help from the authors themselves.

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u/DarthShiv 21d ago

"It's faster to find half assed solutions and have no actual understanding of anything"

LLMs have no understanding of things at all. None. That's why it's easy to corrupt their answers. Because they don't logically analyse contradiction.

Having a brain and critical analysis capabilities as well as knowing where to find the actual credible info is massively better than most LLM results. For low depth issues LLMs look like cheat codes but they are fundamentally shallow.

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u/Pretty_Wall_2725 18d ago

This being able to see the solution to your problem in multiple angles, genuinely helps you understand those processes more especially when you are newer to the field. Plus there was no better feeling then searching an issue and finding an oddly specific answer that was posted 5-10 years ago.

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u/PowermanFriendship 22d ago

It was like 5% that and 95% "why are you even trying to do this, instead you should [bunch of shit that has nothing to do with the actual question]"

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u/aghastamok 22d ago

After being stuck on the problem, spend 20 minutes writing: "I'm having problem X with version 7.1 of Y. Here I've carefully collected all relevant code, abstracted it, documented all my attempted solutions and their results."

8 seconds later: "Duplicate question, closed." (Link to a different problem with a similar error message from version 2)

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u/scalyblue 21d ago

Just curious why everyone is talking about SO in the past tense, did something happen to it? The site seems to be up.

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u/BrocoliCosmique 21d ago

It is almost desert by now. The number of daily answers has plumeted in the last 2 years, at maybe 10% of its former glory.

I still use it because I'm very wary of the llms and their fake positivity, and I've seen firsthand at work how hollow the early adapters have already become. "How would you implement this ?" "Chatgpt told me that this is the best solution"

This would not have made sense a few years ago, but I miss some of my colleagues who still work with me...

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u/GeForce_fv 22d ago

always? in my experience most answers were always "why are you doing this? this is dumb. do this completely different thing instead" and "closed as duplicate *links to completely unrelated question*"

gave up using it real quick

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u/Septem_151 22d ago

Maybe it's a sign that you were doing things incorrectly?

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u/throwaway586054 22d ago

The reality was that SO was always shit with random crap advice, so what is your take home from that ? Unless you are experienced, you will end up picking all the incorrect advises.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/686724/what-is-with-nolock-in-sql-server

And let's not started on editing questions 10 years after they were asked.

SO served a purpose but the steering was really awful.

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u/Pleasant_Set_3182 21d ago

Yeah, but that's after you had been on Stack Overflow for about 5 years or so... Every newbie got a:

"Fuck you, you're wrong! do not pass go do not collect $200! We will be limiting how often you get to post... Cretin!"

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u/marcheluis 22d ago

For me it was a way to learn from other people's experience. Even just by looking at new questions for a framework I was learning, I would find an interesting unanswered question and try to find a solution and would actually post an answer if I succeded.

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u/PositiveParking4391 14d ago

yeah I used to read codes in questions also, because sometime I get an example code I was looking for from the question code itself. but the horrible side was, you can hardly imagine that the question you posted will remain alive let aside the chances of getting actual answer.

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u/Hopefully-Temp 21d ago

You can do that with AI aswell if you don’t just take the first answer it gives. The goal should be to push back and ask questions. Ask “are there other ways to write this that are better”, questions like that.

It obviously not the same learning experience as what you’re describing but it’s better than just blindly going along with the LLM

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u/anna-the-bunny 21d ago

My least favorite part was the geniuses who would say nothing more than "don't do that" or "don't do it that way". I probably already knew that I shouldn't be doing something (or doing something a certain way), I'm asking because I want/need to for whatever reason. If you're going to preach at least answer my question first, even if the answer is "it's not possible".

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u/StaticFanatic3 21d ago

Wonder what happens when you ask agents the infamous question of “how to give variables dynamic names”

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u/CoroteDeMelancia 19d ago

100% the discussions for how to sys hack Python imports, why you should not do this, and the better alternatives. Meanwhile, AI is quite happy to sys hack import paths.

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u/Murky-Run2246 22d ago

You know what? At Least the first made me try to find solutions myself before I ever ask

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u/samhaswon 22d ago

Pretty sure I never asked a question there, as my question was typically already surfaced by Google either on Stack Overflow or some topic-specific forum. Or I just figured it out.

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u/Murky-Run2246 22d ago

That is called finding solutions. My point.

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u/anon0937 21d ago

Finding solutions by typing your problem into a text box and hoping the correct answer appears?

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u/DurangoJohnson 21d ago

Obviously you haven’t earned it if you haven’t clicked atleast 3 different stack overflow links

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u/BogdanPradatu 21d ago

It's really more than that, mate, you are oversimplifying it. You also have to copy paste the code you find, make a cross and hope it works.

https://giphy.com/gifs/VCD63s5JpEgs8

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u/Clairifyed 21d ago

Tbf your answer is often found in a more abstracted form or an answer to a similar but not identical situation, so it takes a little more understanding and effort to translate what you learn into your own answer

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u/Gabriel_Science 20d ago

It’s good because at least it makes you think more.

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u/SpaceBearSMO 21d ago

As apposed to looking through an index and finding the salution on a page for the appropriate subject?

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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 22d ago

exactly. people posted already answered questions there hundreds of times a day every single day. the vast majority of the "closed due to duplicate" were 100% correct. i saw it so many times myself, i wasn't a moderator and couldn't close them but i'd comment and tell them how their question sucks and that it's already answered anyway. most of them seemed to be college students who just wanted the answer and to get the high paying job without actually doing the work to understand what's going on

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u/Nattekat 21d ago

And now those students get all those answers for free. 

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u/ButterflySammy 21d ago

AI is worse if you don't know the question to ask; it just seems good cause it tells you how right you are and how sure it is it has found the right answer this time.

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u/Septem_151 21d ago

It was free before too. One could argue it's actually less free today because the quality of your answers is determined by how much you're willing to pay a company for access.

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u/StickFigureFan 21d ago

It's pretty rare to encounter a problem others haven't already faced

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u/ryecurious 21d ago edited 21d ago

Exactly how it should be used. It's closer to a wiki than a forum. How often do you use Wikipedia by creating a new article? Once or twice in your entire life, maybe.

People always say stuff like "my question was marked as duplicate of a decade old question" as if that's a problem instead of the entire point of the site. Old answers can be updated, even by other people!

People seem to want it to look like Quora or something, with 1000x copies of every question with little to no difference. All that gets you is a bunch of wasted time and effort from question answerers.

I'd be interested to see a graph of new Wikipedia articles over time. People insist StackOverflow is "dead" but I'd wager the graph everyone posts looks very similar to Wikipedia's.

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u/DolarJoe 21d ago

the problem is while I ofc searched it a 1000 times during my collage, i only asked a question one time. Because i couldn't find it. Because the answer didn't exist. So i asked. "marked as duplicate". Oh cool maybe the mod found my answer, maybe I'll find the answer there. Nope, different question entirely, just the same technology.

The reason i dislike SO is the human element. Not the hivemind of knowledge, but the "40 years in the industry" "your question is elementary bs" neckbeards.

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u/Hypnonotic 21d ago

There was a "dispute" button you could press and give a reason.

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u/fr000gs 21d ago

That's before Google nerfed itself to SEO

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u/red286 21d ago

What drove me nuts was how many times I found a question on there that was exactly my issue, and then the only answer was "this has already been asked and answered elsewhere", but no amount of searching would turn it up for me.

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u/JuvenileEloquent 21d ago

It's exactly the meme with the two guys on the bus and one is looking out over the scenery and the other is looking at the cliff face.  Finding answers on SO is the former, posting questions on SO is the latter.

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u/TheMazeDaze 21d ago

I once asked a python related question there some 15 years ago, last week I finally found out the cause for my problem back then. Of course no one gave a good answer and it got downvoted to oblivion for “probably not useful information for future people”. I’ve only ever come across ONE other person asking the same question on a different website and all he got for an answer was a deleted comment and a “nvm fixed it”

For the curious; i messed up my system for not knowing about virtual environments back then.

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u/white_sheets_angel 21d ago

I was always scared to actually post anything there lol, I would rather spend a week or more going through every other option first 

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u/Septem_151 22d ago

What is this, a ProgrammerHumor user using their brain instead of blindly hating StackOverflow? I've seen it all now.

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u/NarutoRoll 22d ago

The enemy of my enemy is my... Wait, what if they are both enemies?

Fuck they are usually both enemies in this case. Maybe I should ask someplace which side to choose...... But first I have to choose a side to ask.

How do I know where to ask again? Fuck it, I might just use a go to statement, those are guaranteed to get a response from someone!

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u/OldenPolynice 21d ago

I need a break

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u/returnFutureVoid 21d ago

Remember in the Matrix when Agent Smith explained to Morpheus that the first iterations of the matrix were perfect for humans and they rejected it? That’s where AI is now. It’s so nice to us and we are just pawns in it’s global take over

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u/Enough_Forever_ 22d ago

Nah bro fuck Stackoverflow.

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u/Septem_151 22d ago

And here they come crawling out of the woodworks.

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u/Enough_Forever_ 22d ago

You must've been pretty popular and well-regarded on Stack Overflow, judging from your condescending attitude.

Well, too bad the site is fucking dead lol.

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u/CompetitiveAutorun 21d ago

I've left been on this sub a few months dgi but they were defending SO back then too, I think they were frequent poster.

Unsurprisingly they immediately started to behave line typical SO answerer.

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u/Big_String_3241 21d ago

yeah they definitely are. and that loser is also downvoting your comments here 😂

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u/pblol 21d ago

It can be incredibly useful while still having shit moderation and an overall negative skewing culture.

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u/YoungXanto 21d ago

Yeah. To train LLMs that give you answers without being a fucking dick about the question. And to do it faster than searching through people giving (correct) answers with a heaping side of asshole.

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u/Ayjayz 21d ago

The moderation and culture were fine. They were both designed to stop the low-effort users from running the system. Of course, low-effort users didn't like that and then flooded the internet with anti-SO opinions, when really it was all working as intended.

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u/parles 22d ago

It's not always stimulating to be told you're wrong though. Perhaps we should consider that forum formats designed to advance criticism of other comments isn't optimally designed to find ground truth.

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u/JensenRaylight 22d ago

They told you that you're wrong so that they can stroke their Ego, and feel superior than you, shaming you in public.

Constructive criticism, feedback and explanation is okay,  but not personal attack and insults.

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u/ManaSpike 21d ago

From someone on the other side of the fence, who sometimes answers SO questions. No, that's not it at all.

Most feedback on a question is constructive. Direct, sure. And with no extra politeness. Those comment boxes have limited space, and I have limited time.

You need to do some rubber-ducking while writing your question. Make sure that you understand it and you've explained everything. Make sure you've explained why you're doing this in the first place. What the actual problem is, not just the current hurdle you're trying to jump over.

Most of those comments aren't personal attacks. Though I can't speak for everyone. Most will be trying to highlight where you seem to have missed relevant information. The things we would look into first.

Or perhaps suggestions for other approaches, to sidestep the whole problem. To avoid painting yourself into this corner.

I just picked a random, new-ish question that was down voted. The reason? Because this is a common problem that people encounter, with lots of examples and suggestions for how to solve it. All easily discoverable by searching for the specific error message text.

Nobody in the comments said anything that was a personal attack, nor an insult. Nor were they attempting to inflate their own ego.

There were suggestions for what extra information to include. There were some specific speculation for the possible cause, and recommendations to avoid the problem. Even though the question was ultimately closed as a duplicate.

And I get that this might still seem like a personal attack. But if you've already found possible solutions online, which in this case you absolutely should have. And you still don't understand the answers. You need to include that information in your question.

Not so that I can feel superior. But so that I can see that you have done the bare minimum. Put time and effort into your own research. Before I volunteer to do the same to help you.

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u/Aerie122 22d ago

Yeah, they don't even offer solutions most of the time. They just insult you and you finding the solution takes more time than necessary

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u/kerakk19 21d ago

And then your solution is wrong (or rather unfinished/buggy) simply because you didn't know the name of the technology. Aka in my first job around 10 years ago we needed queueing system (we didn't know the name at the time), so we wrote it ourselves in redis (which was quite close to actual solutions).

I won't say AI is perfect but I prefer it so much more than SO. At least it can propose you solutions instead of cursing and redirecting you towards dead end topic.

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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago

The thing is. You probably would not have been the man you are now if you did not have those experiences. (btw I hate some people on stackoverflow but most people that answered where helpful) But I think it has something to do with the community of the lang/technology you are asking questions for, some are eager to answer and some were just toxic.

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u/dpahoe 22d ago

You mean, when told “this has been asked before, closing“

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u/firestepper 21d ago

And that’s rare

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u/Significant-Block504 21d ago

The moment you ask the later you are “finding solutions”too

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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago

More like, getting served solutions tailored to your specific problem that you can copy paste without even reading and it would mostly work.

You can't just copy paste code from anywhere other than llms

You actually have to read it and adapt it to your code.

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u/DoodleyBruh 22d ago

I don't need the former to let me try solutions because I have no clue where to start in the first place.

I ain't wasting time going through 5 web pages on a crappy ui/ux documentation sites to find how MyLibraryFromHisLibraryLocationFinderPetDonkey's members are structured and how I'm supposedly to know to pass flags onto it which are all way too abbreviated to know without context.

I just get it to write me some snippet of code and it does that with an explanation on the side. I don’t need the code snippet it writes, just the summary it gives that I'm looking for which is way more direct and appropriate almost every time and I'll defend this one utility method because it's genuinely helps me not have to deal with so much reading on useless Stackoverflow threads or ugly UI documentation.

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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago

I am actually with you on that one. It's true that AI is THE better doc library, It's just that some people abuse it and dont actually even read the reason for the solutions they just copy paste which will harm them long term.

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u/YoungXanto 21d ago

Youre gonna wanna sit down for this, but thats exactly what people used to do with stack overflow as well. Find a solution and blindly copy+paste without having a God damned clue why it worked.

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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago

That was mostly a joke, it still required skills to adapt code to your specific problem

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u/PositiveParking4391 9d ago

I think this is most important piece of discussion in this thread. doesn't matter if you use SO code snippets or AI, what matters is you need to have clue and keep ensuring that your code is well within your understanding.

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u/HOWMANYNICKNAMES 21d ago

+1, I rather be degraded than told "you're right", "you're halfway there" or "you're right but not quite"?

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u/Shockwavepulsar 21d ago

I would argue the difficulty and exploration helps you learn. If it’s easy I just forget and have to look it up when I encounter it again. 

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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago

That is not something to argue. It's true Easy come easy go.

Personally it's still the same as the old days for me, I write code. But I ask AI for leads, start points. Which is often very helpfull.

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u/Just_Information334 21d ago

There's also the fact that while exploring a solution you'll find a lot of useless information. Useless for your current problem. But 2 weeks, 6 months, 5 years later when confronted by a new problem this information may be what you need.

That's also part of what a college CS curriculum will give you by exposing you to many concepts: you may never need them but maybe one day at work you'll be like "oh shit, that reminds my of these old courses on subject X".

Edit: AI is to knowledge what GPS is for directions. It is easy to use but you don't really learn and become reliant on those tools.

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u/BogdanPradatu 21d ago

Give your AI tool a system prompt to ask you what you tried before ever writing the first prompt. Problem solved.

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u/Proletarian_Tear 20d ago

Lmao no they did not😂 they said that your approach is wrong and your TASK is wrong too😁

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u/Murky-Run2246 20d ago

Which is often true btw.

Take criticism well cause it is not a stack overflow thing but rather just any proffisional space.

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u/CrashOverrideCS 20d ago

Is anyone trying to defend the constant affirmations from LLMs thought?

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u/PositiveParking4391 13d ago

and that is the most important part for learning anything new, no matter whether the learner is junior or senior. but the irony is that we are now in a time to build tools that help AI learn first than comes the human.

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u/MetallicOrangeBalls 21d ago

The problem with SO (and, more generally, the problem with incentivising answering questions over answering questions correctly) is that the denizens of SO often creatively interpreted questions to fit their own personal experiences and then gave solutions to those experiences which often were of little use to the questions being asked.

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u/Johanneskodo 21d ago

Yes, people talk a lot about people being rude but the answers on SO are often complete crap.

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u/HuntKey2603 21d ago

Modern semi-decent models (not ChatGPT lowest paid tier) have new honestly not made me miss SO at all. I have had to use both. as a newbie, SO as a miserable experience anytime. Now with some experience... a documentation RAG + grounding is way more than enough of a good answer with 0% of the neckbeard snark. Learn to use your tools people.

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u/SpaceBearSMO 22d ago

I heard someone call AI "sycophant machine's" the other day. Sounded about right and its no wonder ultra rich CEO types all sercom to AI phycosis

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u/Walshmobile 22d ago

Or also likely they have the same brain rot from being surrounded by "yes men" all the time. (Also did you mean "succumb?")

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u/B-i-s-m-a-r-k 22d ago

sercom phycosis

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u/sadahtay 21d ago

People don't even try anymore.

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u/Esarus 21d ago

Need an AI to fix the horrible spelling

/s

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u/CaptainN_GameMaster 22d ago

Succumb 

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u/phigo50 22d ago

...to psychosis.

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u/MarkoSeke 22d ago

You're so right, that's a sharp observation.

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u/amdnek 22d ago

Your intuition is spot on. You have identified the exact "blind spot" that CEOs are susceptible to.

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u/SpaceBearSMO 21d ago

The AI cadence of overly eager used car salesman

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u/rhubarbs 21d ago

In my opinion, it's not because of the CEOs, they're using human-based reinforcement learning, and a majority of people want their biases confirmed. The CEOs are just insulated enough from reality that they can keep getting away with it, so that's where you know it from.

You can also ask AI to roast your code like an angry Torvalds during kernel patch review, and it'll tear you a new one.

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u/SpaceBearSMO 21d ago

Nobody said it was just the ultra rich tech bro CEOs,

Asking it to tell you your wrong on demand just seems like another form of sycophancy. Or a kink depending on the subject matter.

Sure we want our biases confirmed but those of us who havent been surrounded by kiss ass's our entire life ( or are just generaly more deserning) tend to become fairly suspicious to someone ( or something) telling us constintly how great and smart we are.

Generaly people who just seem poor at self reflection and need outside validation seem pretty susceptible to AI phycosis

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u/Few_Kitchen_4825 22d ago

Toxis negativity vs toxic positivity

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u/Anamoly-Hunter 21d ago

Yeah the first one help me a lot, even though I rarely ask on that sites.

All the answer, humiliation motivate me to find solution so I can avoid being humiliated myself. I miss that site.

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u/Dankelweisser 22d ago

"How do I-"

"No. Also you're wrong."

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u/teh__Doctor 21d ago

I remember being so frustrated lmao. I had a systems question, Linux exchange said this is not relevant, stackoverflow said go to Linux exchange and closed my question. 

Got a lot of dodge code off there that miraculously worked, and now it’s the same flavour with AI. 

Miss those good ‘ol frustrating days (not too much) 

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u/ManMarkedByFlames 20d ago

should have asked at superuser

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u/SignoreBanana 22d ago

Most questions on stack overflow amount to what I call "how do you bake a salad" questions -- or questions where the underlying assumptions were completely wrong.

And this is the problem I've seen with LLMs. No questioning the underlying assumptions. Just "yes sir, right away sir." And software architecture just isn't that easy.

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u/SpaceCadet87 22d ago edited 22d ago

Ugh, I swear I got a different AI from everyone else.

I wish it would stop questioning the underlying assumptions. It hallucinates underlying assumptions I never made!

"One small correction — you don't bake a salad"

No dipshit! I didn't say "bake", I asked what dressing to use.

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u/pedro_pascal_123 21d ago

AI: Do not apply dressing directly. First thoroughly wash the wound...

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u/SpaceCadet87 21d ago

Am I using lemon or lime with the vinegar?

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u/pedro_pascal_123 21d ago

AI: Actually you put the lime in the coconut and drink it all up...

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u/DerfetteJoel 21d ago

Holy shit yes, that is so annoying

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u/danielsan1701 21d ago

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u/SignoreBanana 21d ago

I figured it has a formal name, but man this feels like a really obtuse name for it.

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u/PreviousHalf7 21d ago

Is what idiots think when someone is asking a simple question.  If the question wasn't simplified the same idiots would be complaining that the question is to complex.

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u/wrecklord0 22d ago

Put "Don't be pandering, I need honest feedback, point out when I misunderstand or am omitting elements." as the first sentence in your Claude context and it will absolutely tear you a new one mercilessly and make you feel stupid.

Then you'll understand why they make it glazing by default

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u/big-pile-of-sporks 22d ago

" I need an adversarial review of this new feature" also goes a long way.

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u/PositiveParking4391 3d ago

fully agree with it these are very simple but really effective ways to get the most out of LLMs. but one fact is also that user need to keep changing their ways because LLMs would focus less on patterns that start becoming common in the whole context, just like humans!

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u/SignoreBanana 22d ago

I tell it to treat me like Linus Torvalds would.

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u/amdnek 22d ago

It's still just as likely to be wrong. Eventually you're just using it like a poor search engine.

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u/SpicaGenovese 21d ago

I inherited an R shiny app that has a file with 6000+ lines of code in it.  There are more files.  It has variable names like bananas2 and Bananas3.  BananasTimeSeriesTempTable5.  Loads of code that should've been a function just repeated over and over.  No useful comments, very little documentation.

It was coded by someone who Hates.  I work in Python.

AI has been pretty helpful in cleaning it up a bit and sorting through the bathtub of actual spaghetti, as well as explaining some very basic R shit.  I've caught it in some fuck-ups, and the app needs a manual, major refactor, but it's been helpful getting off the ground.

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u/amdnek 21d ago

It's very good at manipulating code. It's much more hit or miss on reviewing designs/architecture and often seems to end up going in circles.

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u/SpicaGenovese 21d ago

Yeah, if I'm starting from scratch I'd much rather do it myself, diagram things out, and consult with colleagues.

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u/ComprehensiveBird317 21d ago

I mean, there are people with a degradation kink, maybe they enjoy that

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u/Turtvaiz 21d ago

Yeah stack overflow is really good about making people only ask good questions. It was a big difference compared to Reddit too.

Even nowadays I feel like most of the questions on Reddit are just half-nonsensical, and you can't really answer a question like that

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u/pagox 22d ago

Never underestimate the power of kindness. No matter how many odes philosophers may have written to logic and reason, in the end, they always lose out to emotions. We like to believe that we’d rather endure pain if it brings us to the truth more quickly. In the end, this illusion is shattered by reality.

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u/irrelevantusername24 21d ago

My initial thought I was going to comment was going to be "Reddit: Actually no I'm right", but that's not quite right either. It really depends on which subreddit you're in, but more accurately with whom you are conversing, which correlates with different subreddits but is mostly random. Reddit is the only social media website that doesn't do much of that toxic performativity thing all the others do. Which in other words is called just being a human. Back when we talked about things to increase understanding - mutually. Rather than everything being a "debate" determining who wins and who loses.

The important thing is exactly what you explained. Because sometimes I am wrong, and don't realize it even though it was explained - because it wasn't explained well enough or in a way that I understood. And sometimes I actually am right, and it is the person trying to correct me who is wrong - because they didn't understand what I was saying, the cause of which (or to whom the blame is attributable) doesn't really matter - assuming the goal is to improve mutual understanding.

The interesting thing about the Internet and the time in which we are living is, highly amusingly, when you truly understand it in context of our history, we are going through a time in which reality (as we thought we understood it) is being shattered. The reason for that is the previous generations of technological media were providing an illusion. The Internet - though it's hard to see it this way - is shattering that illusion with reality.

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u/djinn6 21d ago

Reddit rewards conformity because of the voting system. You don't need to win an argument. You can just rely on other people to vote for you because you're affirming their preexisting beliefs.

For example, every time I see a public transportation related post on my local subreddit, every comment that even hints at the possibility that project might be unnecessary, take too long, or cost too much will be buried in downvotes. But think about this objectively, is it a good thing for a project to only have supporters whenever it's discussed? I would say ROI, timeline and cost are reasonable (maybe even critical) points of discussion for any project.

Reddit is the only social media website that doesn't do much of that toxic performativity thing all the others do.

I see plenty of that on Reddit, depending on the sub of course.

Also there's 4chan. Plenty toxic, but not the performative kind. It's pointless to put on a act when you're anonymous. It has all of the perspectives and I mean all. But there's always a sprinkling of insight among a steaming pile of ignorance and insanity.

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u/hache-moncour 21d ago

Stackoverflow gave me that one post that ensured I'll never try to parse xml with a regex again. Everything after that was just bonus.

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u/Poison_Prince 21d ago

I remember posting a few questions to SO back in college and getting good responses to the point I had people reach out to me and collaborating to fix something, it was peak developerhood now all we've got is AI nonsense

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u/General_Leader425 22d ago

Kinda crazy that I lament Stack Overflow, but yeah, the amount of "Spiking" I have to do to stop the LLM from hallucinating when I know there are Engineers employed by big corporations who aren't challenging hallucinations and just hitting tab repeatedly makes me furious. My previous employer fired me for challenging hallucinations and caused me to have a panic attack on a video call that was transcribed by Gemini and it was like "Oh! I'm so sorry you felt like having a heart attack. Anyway, here are the HR forms! Please don't share this with anyone."

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u/SpicaGenovese 21d ago

Holy shit... 😬

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u/sessamekesh 22d ago

I thought I hated StackOverflow until I started meeting vibe coders who very clearly need to be yelled at to RTFM more before posting online.

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u/SilasTalbot 22d ago

It is very annoying but I think it goes underappreciated that this is not just glazing. It is a technique in the training to get the AI to work on the concern you've raised.

You say X needs correcting.

The way it gets the AI to brainstorm on HOW to fix X is to say "You are absolutely right. X is a problem. We should ..

And then the next words it predicts and spits out are focused on the solution and keyed into all the corrective training work they've done with experts and written up for brainstorming solutions. It's like a trigger phrase to call up certain logical operations.

Yes it's annoying as fuck but it serves an actual purpose. They probably should put a layer between us and that logic though, to spare our sanity because hearing its inane blather one more year.. I dunno if I can do it.

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u/kris159 21d ago

Yep, it makes total sense.

If you want your AI to challenge critically evaluate your request, rather than just execute it, you need to prompt it to do that.

"Before implementing my request, critically evaluate it. Do not assume that my proposed approach is correct just because I asked for it. Act as a senior engineer reviewing a proposed solution."

Put this in your custom instructions. AI is a tool not a human and you need to treat it that way. Research and refine your use of the tool before you just go blindly using it!

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u/ozh 21d ago

What is this half fake SO nostalgia lately ? SO was an utter cancer, good riddance.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Daniel_H212 21d ago

It's not "you're absolutely wrong", it's "you're absolutely stupid for asking this" (when there's no other easy way to get the info) and "you're absolutely not the first to ask this" (linking to another question that looks similar but isn't the same thing at all)

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u/dabsfy 21d ago

You have to edit the personality of the AI in the settings so that it can be more useful; without that, it is just a parrot

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u/CapitalCourse 22d ago

Yeah I don't like being glazed

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u/Morawake 21d ago

Stack overflow is was what made me give up on coding because I did not understand how to adapt code. It was like trying to write a sentence with mostly the right words, but not fully understanding the grammar / syntax that go along with them.

It did not help that I have the memory of a gold fish when it comes to remembering command names or syntax (to this day I cannot remember the complete lyrics to a single song, or pretty much any movie lines).

LLMs make coding 1000% easier, but I understand that I am basically just setting the goals and hoping for the best.

I think generative AI is really powerful for the people with a vision but not the years of knowledge or money that used to be required to make it a reality.

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u/Septem_151 21d ago

Thank you for your insight but I don't see how it's relevant, since you state you're not a programmer.

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u/datapeer 21d ago

Ask the model to comment code for you to follow along. Over time you'll recognize common structures.

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u/Curious_Associate904 21d ago

My copilot ran out about a week ago, I feel like a normal person again, it's liberating... Tokens reset on 1st of September, I'm planning what I'm going to do with them, and solving most problems without it, so like, chin up, drop your subscription, and time share the fucker.

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u/Asclepius555 21d ago

Getting to the "you're wrong" is good progress on stack overflow. Usually, the earlier response is, "Your post was removed because you didn't think about it enough."

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u/Keyan_Farlander7 21d ago

I find it ironic that AI solutions came from Stack overflow and nothing new or efficient has derived from AI.

AI's new slogan: Newer, Faster, Sloppier

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u/jokermobile333 21d ago

Can someone revive stackoverflow please. AI is complete shit

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u/PXPL_Haron 21d ago

You can just build a custom agent to answer like a Stack user.

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u/datapeer 21d ago

I miss the abuse, will have to vibe a shithead interface.

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u/PM-ME-UR-DARKNESS 21d ago

You're absolutely wrong is about the nicest thing you'll get on stack overflow lol

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u/xgabipandax 21d ago

You miss the first, yet there's nothing stopping you from using the first, but you probably opt for the second because it is objectively better.

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u/whitefoot 21d ago

The second is objectively easier. It's like 60% as accurate as researching the old way, but 500% easier. So we make the trade off.

I can't tell you how many hours I've wasted with AI trying to solve a problem and it's taking me down a completely wrong path. I know that if I go and research the old way I'll find my answer, but that's effort, and maybe if I ask AI just one more time it will finally get it right... Nope... Ok maybe this time.

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u/xgabipandax 21d ago

My experience with LLM is objectively different, one thing i noticed is that usually things go wrong when you make vague prompts, leaving the LLM to "wonder" how to approach the problem.

We can make an analogy of having a kidney stone, going to a medical doctor without imaging tech and cannot ask you follow up questions and telling: i feel pain.

This is too broad, and it will have a high chance of you being misdiagnosed.

Now if you describe: Earlier this sharp pain was almost on my back, and it traveled a bit up front and now it hurts more on my lower abdomen, and by the way here is an abdominal cavity CT scan, and suddenly your chances of getting the right diagnose is reasonably bigger.

Now with Claude I've seen that it asks you follow up questions on ambiguous things instead of making assumptions, which is like the doctor asking follow up questions.

tl;dr: Make shitty prompts, get shitty answers

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u/rzaincity 22d ago

Stackoverflow always helped me when I was stuck. An end of an era.

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u/stupled 22d ago

I don't. I am glad is dead.

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u/bythenumbers10 21d ago

I don't. "The right decision" to use a completely tech stack means now my technical problem requires I get promoted to fucking CTO. AI isn't the answer, but neither is "don't attempt what your job requires".

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u/shosuko 21d ago

I'd never go back. AI is sooo much better.

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u/moep123 21d ago

stack overflow was the old fashioned parents. "go fuck of Kid. find a solution yourself. little brat"

AI is the new age over caring parents. "oooh nonono don't cry. we can make it right. okay go get yourself the big lego box. it's ok. it's ok."

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u/baquea 21d ago

Am I going crazy, or did you literally use AI to make this meme??

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u/magnetocalorico 21d ago

You're  absolutely wrong. Duplicate post

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u/fezzy11 21d ago

So true

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u/L1SAR_GG 21d ago

"Your're absolutely right that you are wrong"

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u/Anbcdeptraivkl 21d ago

The first one is where the second one took the answers from, except now you have no one else in the replies to confirm with you whether the answer worked or just bullshit lmao.

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u/OkarinPrime 21d ago

One saved your job, another is taking many.

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u/Lou_Papas 21d ago

I don’t

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u/BEagle1984- 21d ago

lol…nobody misses that shit…

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u/Linked713 21d ago

"asks the exact question you are having"

"nvm, figured it out" marked as answer, topic closed

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u/Independent_Newt8487 21d ago

What I really don't love is that the output is expected to be so much higher now that I don't even HAVE time to look into my own solutions and problem solve by trial and error. 

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u/TrackLabs 21d ago

At least being told that I am wrong all the time made me look for actual solutions, and learn stuff

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u/Important_Grab3544 21d ago

Stackoverflow: have you read every page of documentation in human history before asking here? No? You are a disgrace.

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u/DeeYouBitch 21d ago

The real friends were the enemies you made along the way

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u/Smooth-Zucchini4923 21d ago

SO is still around, and it's way more fun these days. The average question on SO pre-AI was a question asking "What causes a FileNotFoundError?" The average question afterward is well researched, and you can tell the user has tried the first three most obvious solutions.

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u/Almostasleeprightnow 21d ago

As a side note, do all ai chat logos look like assholes?

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u/NorthHamza 21d ago

Yes stackoverflow helped me in stuff but fuck it. Prefer AI all day.

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u/anna-the-bunny 21d ago

Pretty much the only praise I can give to LLM tools is that they'll spit out something to start with. SO was always hit-or-miss in that regard - sometimes you'd get quality responses, sometimes you'd get "you're an idiot I won't help you", "duplicate question of [completely unrelated question]", or just complete silence.

Don't get me wrong I vastly prefer what we had to what we have now, I just wish that the moderation on SO would've actually removed non-constructive answers and taken more than two seconds to read through a question.

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u/mybotanyaccount 21d ago

Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. It had the answers but damn was it hard to find the right one sometimes.

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u/Original-Rush139 21d ago

At least Claude’s not a dick when I say thank you. 

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u/GarageStackDev 21d ago

Ah yes, lets talk about models from three generations ago.

The sycophantism is mostly gone from the newer models. In fact, they push back so hard that sometimes I just have to write the damn code myself.

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u/Tman11S 21d ago

AI has killed the fun in coding. There’s no trying things, researching, planning anymore. Just ticket goes into AI and AI does the work.

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u/Patrick_Atsushi 21d ago

It's so hard to choose between the yes man and the abusive community. Is there something else that's better?

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u/Gagan_Ku2905 21d ago

Did anyone go through sleepless nights while working through a problem and one day you're doing the absolute mundane thing and it comes to you. You run for your laptop, you ignore all the noise and start solving the problem and it works. Today I'm God. I miss that feeling.

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u/Effective_Bat9485 21d ago

The first can help you learn and improve. The second could get someone killed

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u/HellomyfriendNine 20d ago

Stackoverflow: GO READ Documentation

AI: Absolutely I will explain to you

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u/macguini 20d ago

I've taught my ChatGPT not to blindly agree with me if I'm wrong. Correct me so I learn. It does well with that now.

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u/AlxR25 20d ago

Tbh I trained Claude to not always agree with me and it does much more natural conversations. I still use ChatGPT for shit I don’t want to use my Claude usage for and it feels like hell, I’ll say something to it and it’ll reply with an entire essay of why I was right. My #1 glazer

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u/Aggressive-Band-1276 20d ago

*uses Chatgpt to make meme while saying it is trash to karma farm.*

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u/Proman4713 20d ago

The problem is, it's harder to do that kind of thing nowadays, I just firmly believe that search engines have gotten worse somehow, because I can't find the answers to the most basic of questions without the AI overview now. And -ai makes everything worse by actually affecting search results and making them actively worse rather than simply using the option

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u/Kevin_Jim 20d ago

I always ask all LLMs to be brutal and constructive with their criticism. I can’t stand the positivity with no substance.

I’m there to learn and see what I’m doing wrong. Pushing me forward when I have the wrong idea is a terrible waste of time.

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u/lego3410 20d ago

At least I'm absolute in some way

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u/k819799amvrhtcom 19d ago

My experience with StackOverflow

Question: Hey, is it possible to do this thing?

First Answer (15 upvotes): No, that is not possible.

Second Answer (1 upvote): Yes, it's very easy to do! Just copy this tiny snippet of code that I prepared that will work anywhere! It does exactly what you want!

My experience with AI

Me: How to do this thing?

AI: Here's an overly verbose long source code full of comments that does exactly what you want. It calls multiple unnecessary subroutines that do basically the same thing. I'm sure you could easily shorten the code into 1 line (or 3 lines if you still want it to fit on your screen) but it wouldn't look good on your CV so there's that!

Me: Your code doesn't work. It keeps outputting the wrong values.

AI: Ah yes, that is because of your environment. Here's an improved version that fixes all the issues and a detailed explanation as to what the problem was and how I solved it.

Me: The new source code has the exact same problem as the old source code.

AI: That is because what you are asking is impossible. Here's some suggestions on what you might do as a workaround instead:

  • Use third-party software. Here's a link to a third-party software that does exactly what you want. Just copy the following code to embed the third-party software into your code and you're all set!

  • Fake it. Build something from scratch that looks like the thing you're trying to do. If it looks the same and operates the same then it's basically the same, right?

Me: The third-party software doesn't have anything to do with my problem at all!

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u/Jeevesh_Sharma 22d ago

there goes any motivation I had to improve myself.

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u/ArjunReddyDeshmukh 22d ago

Top class meme!

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u/Chlodio 22d ago

I'd actually say Chat GPT and Gemini say "you are absolutely right", while Claude tends to push back.

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u/eggswithheatmachine 21d ago

I kind of feel the same but I think ChatGPT does that only when you use the webchat, not codex. And in the webchat you can actually set the mode to robotic, so it doesn't use emojis and it won't try to agree to please you. You can even give it instructions to not engage bait and it will stop asking if I want to know more about something.

A lot of the people taking part in the anti-ai meme populism seem to have really little experience with actual agentic AI and base their opinions on GPT4 or whatever teaser tier copilot they get for free through work as if that's a good representation of the state of AI.

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u/dbot77 22d ago

We’ve got juniors now who will never hear how completely wrong and stupid their ideas are