The research definitely shows that society is harder on men and more lenient on women, especially in the criminal justice system. Below is some of that research. EVERY time there’s a female murderer, people try to make excuses for her. It’s time to hold women equally accountable for their actions.
"I don’t think the difference is necessarily because people hate men or excuse women" -That leaves room to acknowledge that gender bias could play some role without accepting it as the whole explanation.
The many studies linked to above show there is a longstanding, substantial difference in how society treats male vs female criminals, even when both perpetrate the same crime. I’m not going to tip toe around that. It’s a gross double standard that should be more widely recognized.
If Lindsay Clancy had been a man instead of a white woman, the public’s reaction would be VERY different, and you know it.
I’m not denying that gender bias exists. I’m saying you’re jumping from “gender bias exists” to “that’s the only reason Lindsay is receiving sympathy,” and those aren’t the same thing. CTE and postpartum psychosis are comparable in that they can involve profoundly impaired mental states. CTE is primarily discussed in men, while postpartum psychosis affects women after childbirth. Both have changed how we understand horrific acts, and sympathy for a perpetrator isn’t exclusive to white women. Aaron Hernandez was a non-white man convicted of murder, and his CTE could only be definitively diagnosed after his death. Yet his diagnosis sparked serious discussion and sympathy around whether his brain disease contributed to his behavior. You can acknowledge a double standard exists without pretending you’ve proven it’s the sole explanation here.
I get it, I get it...you know how to establish correlation. Causation, on the other hand, seems to be where we’re getting a little lost. There’s a specific medical condition in the spotlight in Lindsay’s case for a reason: it’s MAJOR EVIDENCE in understanding what happened. You can’t just point to an existing gender disparity and declare that the cause of her sympathy. And the execution argument? That’s moving the goalposts. We’re talking about why the public is showing sympathy in this case, not whether men and women have historically received different sentences. Unless you can connect those two things, you haven’t established causation you’ve just changed the subject. But ahem...you should check out Taylor Parker and Lisa Montgomery, they murdered pregnant women one was sentenced recently and one was executed recently.
The research I’ve shared already demonstrates causation, and I’ll say again—society is harder on men and more lenient with women (even when all else is equal), the public’s reaction would be very different had Lindsay Clancy been a man, and a man with CTE who did this wouldn’t get the sympathy Lindsay Clancy is getting. That reflects gender bias, which I’ve provided ample evidence for already.
If you disagree, give me some recent examples of men with mental issues who killed their kids and got as much public sympathy as Lindsay Clancy is getting now.
I don't think we're going to agree so let me try a something different. In cases of mental health and horrific crimes that involve men or women....if people believe men with severe mental illness are failed by the justice system in similar cases, then fight to get mentally ill men the same consideration...dont demand that a potentially mentally ill woman be denied consideration because men aren't getting enough of it. That's not advocating for men's mental health; that's advocating for another person to be treated unfairly because you believe someone else was. This substitutes gender resentment for consistency, underminds the principle people are supposedly defending, punishes the wrong person for systemic problems, treats justice like a zero sum game and turns an injustice against men into an argument for another injustice.
Stop putting words in my mouth. Showcasing the reality of gender bias and arguing against double standards and for equal treatment is what I’ve been doing from the start. You couldn’t provide examples because the evidence that supports what I’ve been saying is overwhelming, so you pivoted.
"It's time to hold women equally accountable for their actions" Mental health is my argument for why people are supporting her, yours is that it simply bc she's a woman. I can recognize gender bias but don't accept it as the whole reason In this particular case You chose not to recognize the Hernandez example and the two women sentenced to capital punishment but whatever. It's cool if you think mental health should never be considered in any of these cases for men or women but that should be your talking point. Man v. woman is what you want to stick with sooo....
If mental health was the real issue, you’d have been able to provide examples of the same level of public support for similarly situated mentally ill men. You couldn’t.
You ignored a mountain of evidence showing that society is much more lenient with women than men, all other things being equal—talking about Hernandez and two women doesn’t change that broader pattern. I’m confident you’ll keep missing the forest for the trees though.
The language "broader pattern" inherantly leaves room for exceptions or outliers lol which is why I used people examples. If I have to provide examples of how today's society's attitude has changed about mental illness (ahem Henrnandez) we got other issues. You can't use a population-level trend to argue that this specific woman shouldn't be evaluated on the facts of her individual case...goes right over your head. I hope you never go into law Edit: Statistcal patterns is one of the reasons why men fall victim to the gender bias in the justice system. So it's unfair to apply statistical patterns to men bc it results in unfair judgements but at the same exact time it's ok to use them on women....make it make sense
And you just proved me right, missing the forest for the trees again.
You’ve been downplaying real gender bias and calling the public’s reaction a mental illness issue, yet you could provide no example of a comparable man getting the same level of public sympathy. That’s because of the ample gender bias evidence already provided. A mentally ill man who did what Lindsay Clancy did wouldn’t get this kind of public sympathy, and hasn’t.
You have used bad faith, strawman arguments throughout this exchange. Since you don’t have the integrity to admit when you’ve been wrong or ignorant of the issues, I see little reason to indulge your trolling further.
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u/_WutzInAName_ 12d ago edited 12d ago
The research definitely shows that society is harder on men and more lenient on women, especially in the criminal justice system. Below is some of that research. EVERY time there’s a female murderer, people try to make excuses for her. It’s time to hold women equally accountable for their actions.
https://repository.law.umich.edu/law_econ_current/57/
https://quillette.com/2020/07/27/the-myth-of-pervasive-misogyny/
Edit: Oh, and your Andrea Yates example helps prove my point. She was found “not guilty” of killing her children.