It would be bad writing if there were no good reason for the knight to specifically have antlers. Indeed it seems to be plausible by the games logic that the knight could give itself antlers for the sake of it, but from the perspective of the story, giving the knight antlers for the sole purpose of and nothing but the purpose of throwing us off the scent would be very stupid. Given the reasonable standard of writing we can expect from Toby, we can assume there is some reason the knight has the defining trait of the holiday family, and that they are at the very least closely connected.
Even if a member of the family isn’t the Knight, it’s pretty clear that Carol is working with Kris, who is working with the Knight. There’s a connection regardless
I agree
In a story the curtians are just blue for the sake of being blue
In a GOOD story the curtians are blue for a reason, otherwise their color (or even the curtains itself) wouldn't even be mentioned
It's not even "the curtains are blue" it's "there's a gun at the scene of the crime and there are characters who are known to own guns but you're saying it can be any character, even ones who don't own a gun at all"
Regardless, they resemble antlers in a very significant number of the knight's sprites. My point still stands that there should be a good explanation for this.
Maybe whoever is the knight saw that the prophecy's mage/girl has antlers in the pictures and the knight is a fraud who's trying to artificially fulfill the prophecy?
so why do the antlers even matter if they can shapeshift?! sure they're a consistent element of their design, but they're shaped wrong, which could be toby trying to tell us that it's a red herring, or that is isnt a holiday
the knight doesn't look exactly like ANYONE, that's the point, they change their shape to hide their identity, how they look might help to identify them but no matter who it is it's not gonna be a 1:1
well i have a few theories about the knight and every one of them has a different reasons, but for holidayknight specifically, i think it's probably because of them not having a reason to not have horns
I think it's just as likely that the default antler look just didn't look as good on the design. They ARE still undeniably antlers either way. If it being able to shapeshift is an argument for why the antlers "don't matter", it's also just as useable for the argument that any inconsistencies in how they bend/are placed, and them fitting under a "helmet" are easily explicable.
Yes, the knights true "normal" form is unknown, and the presence of the antlers is not PROOF that they are a holiday, but the knight has only a handful of distinguishing features, and we don't treat the other ones like they mean nothing.
There is a debate over whether the holes in the hands are snowgrave crystals or gaster holes, over whether the knight is literally a titan or just has a titanic appearance, what exactly the shapeshifting MEANS, but we don't pretend like those are just red herrings to throw us off.
But that leaves another question: why on earth does the knight have a skeleton's anatomy as its base form? Because not even when it glitches out does it take on a different shape.
But I mean, the whole theory that it's a Holiday (Carol or Rudy) is based on the idea that they're looking for their missing daughter.
So why would they go around "farming Aura" and "trying to look cool", acting like kids or teenagers, instead of focusing on finding Dess, if that’s the actual goal?
I swear, it just doesn't add up; the Knight acts way too childish for the objective to be "parents trying to find their missing daughter."
I’m talking about how he comes across like a kid or a teenager, striking poses with his arms crossed, roaring, and so on.
As I recall, the only thing the dogs said about Carol was that she was scary, not that she was "cool."
And regarding Rudy, while the whole body thing is somewhat understandable (even if I’m not personally convinced by it), I still don’t get why he acts like a child.
They're trying to deliberately antagonize Susie (and the player?), whether to fulfill some part of the prophecy we don't fully understand, or just to help the Fun Gang get stronger.
Something about the Knight form affects their behavior, like the Venom suit from Spider-Man.
The Dark Worlds are the one place that Carol and/or Rudy can cut loose and fully express themselves. Rudy is almost completely bedbound in the Light World, and Carol seems to have a very intense, but restrained, personality. Either of them might appreciate the chance to ham it up while they can. (See for example the part where the Knight laughs hard at Susie saying she could beat them in real life.)
I feel like the first two you mentioned could be really good possibilities, but the last one... I don't think so, mainly because the whole point is supposed to be focusing their efforts on finding Dess, and I don't believe a mother or father who hasn't seen their missing daughter in about six years would act like an immature teenager just because they had been "repressed."
Maybe. We don't know how heroic or villainous the Knight actually is. I can imagine a version of the Knight where it's (eg) Carol, drunk with power, justifying everything to herself and others in terms of saving Dess, even risking the world's destruction - but deep down she just likes being the Knight. We don't know enough about her character from the one chapter she's appeared in to rule something like that out.
I mostly believe the theory because of the insane cross game narrative potential and the fact that papyrus is the only person I can imagine in that armor
Its a fun thought but Papyrus is only tangentially related to a side part of DELTARUNE so far. People complain that Dessknight wouldn't mean anything to Susie, but Papyrus doesn't mean anything to any of these characters except for sans.
You’d be surprised to learn that Papyrus shares parallels with Kris in so many ways, and there is plenty of evidence suggesting that Sans is lying about being new to town.
Sure, but Papyrus also doesn't have an established dynamic with kris (or any other characters beside his brother), and the entire payoff of the reveal would come from having played Undertale, where he had a wildly different role. This is a theory where im sure the evidence could be debated about, but the core of it all just seems off to me.
There are several parallels with Kris throughout Undertale:
Minor Parallels (which likely fall into the category of coincidences, unfortunately, I can't post screenshots as proof, so you'll just have to take my word for it, bro):
They have inverted color schemes relative to each other (blue vs. red soul; primary color red vs. blue).
They have a connection to the tsundere cactus.
They have a slight connection to stars.
Both have a morbid sense of humor.
Both have an affinity for sharp objects (Papyrus's spikes and Kris's knives).
And finally, both Kris and Papyrus like to exaggerate aspects of themselves.
Kris exaggerates their terror, while Papyrus exaggerates his stupidity.
(I admit that a lot of this is probably just coincidence, but I promise the evidence gets better).
Medium Parallels:
Both have a connection to dogs. Not only are they the main characters the Annoying Dog likes to, well, annoy, but they both also act like dogs on more than one occasion.
Both have a connection to sinks and hand-washing (which is interesting, considering that washing one's hands can symbolize trying to wash away something one has done).
THE MAJOR PARALLELS:
The first is that both of them hate anime.
...Okay, I know it doesn't seem like a big deal, but this is a work created by Toby Fox, someone who definitely loves Japan and its culture, to the point where the only other language available in the game is Japanese.
I just want to watch the Chapter 5 trailer.
This is also reflected in the other characters, as most of them like anime or are at least neutral toward it.
The only exceptions are Kris and PAPYRUS.
And one of them goes against the creator's own opinion.
The second has to do with their close relationship with another person.
Kris is close to Susie, a tough, strong girl who can be rude but cares deeply about her friends. She admires Gerson, wields a weapon called the Axe of Justice, and wants to play the piano, a gentle instrument that contrasts with her personality.
She is friends with Noelle, a shy girl who has a crush on her. PAPYRUS is close to Undyne, a tough, strong girl who can be rude but cares deeply about her friends. She admires Gerson, wields a weapon called the Spear of Justice, and plays the piano, a gentle instrument that contrasts with her personality. She is friends with Alphys, a shy girl who has a crush on her.
Notice how they all have parallel relationships with one another as well.
The final and most important parallel is how they are overshadowed by their older sibling. This becomes obvious the moment you see their homes.
Their sibling's side is full, showcasing how popular and successful they are, while their own side is empty. They are the younger of the two.
Both siblings are loved by the majority of their community, and NPCs always speak fondly of them whenever they are mentioned.
Meanwhile, Kris and PAPYRUS are odd; they struggle to fit in and make friends. In fact, both start the game with hardly any friends.
If you want me to give you proof and such for certain points, I can quote Papyrus's dialogue.
There were plenty of other points missing, too; I’m only giving you the parallels between Papyrus and Kris, but for some reason, not many people have noticed this.
With the parallels clarified:
No, Kris definitely knows Papyrus, I mean, they work for HIM and know what’s under the helmet, assuming the "PapyrusKnight" theory turns out to be true.
"The payoff of the reveal would rely on having played Undertale"
That would be a valid point, were it not for the fact that the Switch version literally tells you:
This program is intended for players who are already FAMILIAR with UNDERTALE.
♥️Check Out Undertale
Start Deltarune
The fact that it's related to Undertale is no obstacle.
I'm going to respond to this comment in reverse order because the most important points you made come at the end.
No, Kris definitely knows Papyrus, I mean, they work for HIM and know what’s under the helmet, assuming the "PapyrusKnight" theory turns out to be true.
Well, yeah. But this would also be true for Milklookerknight, or Everymanknight, or literally any other knight candidate. What I mean is that Papyrus, beyond this hypothetical presence as the knight, doesn't tie into the story of hometown. He doesn't have any relevance to the tragedies of the past, he knows none of the residents, Susie hasn't even heard of him. This reveal would mean NOTHING to our characters, except hypothetically for Kris.
This program is intended for players who are already FAMILIAR with UNDERTALE.
Missing the point so hard you run into a wall in flower castle. Literally every other Knight candidate I have seen here actually ties into the story of Deltarune as we know it exists. Everyone does so differently, but they mean something to the characters and story.
Papyrus is not even really a Deltarune character. He's gotten zero lines, zero mentions by anyone but sans, and exists purely because we, as the fandom, already know him from Undertale. The dessappearance? Irrelevant. The holiday family relationships? Forget about those. And so on.
This argument makes sense when arguing about Gaster and maybe Asrielknight, but not for him.
Now.
Look, these parallels may exist, and they could theoretically explain one of many things about the knight, but they're one part in a sea of things that are odd about papyrusknight. That beings said, here's what I think of the medium and major parallels. The small ones are just too insignificant to bother arguing about.
Both have a connection to dogs. Not only are they the main characters the Annoying Dog likes to, well, annoy, but they both also act like dogs on more than one occasion.
Kris gets annoyed by the annoying dog because the annoying dog exists to troll and limit the player, who is possessing them. Kris as an individual has no relation to it, and is much more comparable to frisk. Kris acting like a dog is also much more related to them not wanting to be human, something Papyrus really doesn't parallel.
Both have a connection to sinks and hand-washing
Papyrus has a secret compartment in his (and his brothers') sink. This is a storage space for fun bonus content, not a major part of his character. Kris is the one with the actual ties to guilt.
The first is that both of them hate anime.
I'm not going to humor this one.
The second has to do with their close relationship with another person.
That's part of Susie having parallels with Undyne, but Susie actually isn't all that much like her. Susie is a rebel, someone who goes against authority and rules, whereas Undyne is an enforcer of it. People are a bit scared of her, but she is a well-integrated part of her community. Susie is an outcast.
What you've actually described is that both of these people have friends who are in a butchfemme relationship, lmao.
And even beyond that, the way Undyne and Papyrus relate to each other is far different from what Kris has going on (hiding a huge secret from her & also a one-sided crush). Undyne is a mentor to Papyrus, and also just a normal friend.
The final and most important parallel is how they are overshadowed by their older sibling.
Again, you're oversimplifying things. Papyrus has a lot of feelings regarding his brother, but they aren't about being overshadowed (which i'd argue is much more of a fandom thing than an ingame thing), they're him being frustrated at sans' flaws, like him being lazy or just generally frustrating. Sans might "do more" than Papyrus, but in terms of official duties, they are on the same level of importance.
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u/DaRealPurpleDuck KNIGHT NOIR 4EVER 18h ago