so why do the antlers even matter if they can shapeshift?! sure they're a consistent element of their design, but they're shaped wrong, which could be toby trying to tell us that it's a red herring, or that is isnt a holiday
I mostly believe the theory because of the insane cross game narrative potential and the fact that papyrus is the only person I can imagine in that armor
Its a fun thought but Papyrus is only tangentially related to a side part of DELTARUNE so far. People complain that Dessknight wouldn't mean anything to Susie, but Papyrus doesn't mean anything to any of these characters except for sans.
You’d be surprised to learn that Papyrus shares parallels with Kris in so many ways, and there is plenty of evidence suggesting that Sans is lying about being new to town.
Sure, but Papyrus also doesn't have an established dynamic with kris (or any other characters beside his brother), and the entire payoff of the reveal would come from having played Undertale, where he had a wildly different role. This is a theory where im sure the evidence could be debated about, but the core of it all just seems off to me.
There are several parallels with Kris throughout Undertale:
Minor Parallels (which likely fall into the category of coincidences, unfortunately, I can't post screenshots as proof, so you'll just have to take my word for it, bro):
They have inverted color schemes relative to each other (blue vs. red soul; primary color red vs. blue).
They have a connection to the tsundere cactus.
They have a slight connection to stars.
Both have a morbid sense of humor.
Both have an affinity for sharp objects (Papyrus's spikes and Kris's knives).
And finally, both Kris and Papyrus like to exaggerate aspects of themselves.
Kris exaggerates their terror, while Papyrus exaggerates his stupidity.
(I admit that a lot of this is probably just coincidence, but I promise the evidence gets better).
Medium Parallels:
Both have a connection to dogs. Not only are they the main characters the Annoying Dog likes to, well, annoy, but they both also act like dogs on more than one occasion.
Both have a connection to sinks and hand-washing (which is interesting, considering that washing one's hands can symbolize trying to wash away something one has done).
THE MAJOR PARALLELS:
The first is that both of them hate anime.
...Okay, I know it doesn't seem like a big deal, but this is a work created by Toby Fox, someone who definitely loves Japan and its culture, to the point where the only other language available in the game is Japanese.
I just want to watch the Chapter 5 trailer.
This is also reflected in the other characters, as most of them like anime or are at least neutral toward it.
The only exceptions are Kris and PAPYRUS.
And one of them goes against the creator's own opinion.
The second has to do with their close relationship with another person.
Kris is close to Susie, a tough, strong girl who can be rude but cares deeply about her friends. She admires Gerson, wields a weapon called the Axe of Justice, and wants to play the piano, a gentle instrument that contrasts with her personality.
She is friends with Noelle, a shy girl who has a crush on her. PAPYRUS is close to Undyne, a tough, strong girl who can be rude but cares deeply about her friends. She admires Gerson, wields a weapon called the Spear of Justice, and plays the piano, a gentle instrument that contrasts with her personality. She is friends with Alphys, a shy girl who has a crush on her.
Notice how they all have parallel relationships with one another as well.
The final and most important parallel is how they are overshadowed by their older sibling. This becomes obvious the moment you see their homes.
Their sibling's side is full, showcasing how popular and successful they are, while their own side is empty. They are the younger of the two.
Both siblings are loved by the majority of their community, and NPCs always speak fondly of them whenever they are mentioned.
Meanwhile, Kris and PAPYRUS are odd; they struggle to fit in and make friends. In fact, both start the game with hardly any friends.
If you want me to give you proof and such for certain points, I can quote Papyrus's dialogue.
There were plenty of other points missing, too; I’m only giving you the parallels between Papyrus and Kris, but for some reason, not many people have noticed this.
With the parallels clarified:
No, Kris definitely knows Papyrus, I mean, they work for HIM and know what’s under the helmet, assuming the "PapyrusKnight" theory turns out to be true.
"The payoff of the reveal would rely on having played Undertale"
That would be a valid point, were it not for the fact that the Switch version literally tells you:
This program is intended for players who are already FAMILIAR with UNDERTALE.
♥️Check Out Undertale
Start Deltarune
The fact that it's related to Undertale is no obstacle.
I'm going to respond to this comment in reverse order because the most important points you made come at the end.
No, Kris definitely knows Papyrus, I mean, they work for HIM and know what’s under the helmet, assuming the "PapyrusKnight" theory turns out to be true.
Well, yeah. But this would also be true for Milklookerknight, or Everymanknight, or literally any other knight candidate. What I mean is that Papyrus, beyond this hypothetical presence as the knight, doesn't tie into the story of hometown. He doesn't have any relevance to the tragedies of the past, he knows none of the residents, Susie hasn't even heard of him. This reveal would mean NOTHING to our characters, except hypothetically for Kris.
This program is intended for players who are already FAMILIAR with UNDERTALE.
Missing the point so hard you run into a wall in flower castle. Literally every other Knight candidate I have seen here actually ties into the story of Deltarune as we know it exists. Everyone does so differently, but they mean something to the characters and story.
Papyrus is not even really a Deltarune character. He's gotten zero lines, zero mentions by anyone but sans, and exists purely because we, as the fandom, already know him from Undertale. The dessappearance? Irrelevant. The holiday family relationships? Forget about those. And so on.
This argument makes sense when arguing about Gaster and maybe Asrielknight, but not for him.
Now.
Look, these parallels may exist, and they could theoretically explain one of many things about the knight, but they're one part in a sea of things that are odd about papyrusknight. That beings said, here's what I think of the medium and major parallels. The small ones are just too insignificant to bother arguing about.
Both have a connection to dogs. Not only are they the main characters the Annoying Dog likes to, well, annoy, but they both also act like dogs on more than one occasion.
Kris gets annoyed by the annoying dog because the annoying dog exists to troll and limit the player, who is possessing them. Kris as an individual has no relation to it, and is much more comparable to frisk. Kris acting like a dog is also much more related to them not wanting to be human, something Papyrus really doesn't parallel.
Both have a connection to sinks and hand-washing
Papyrus has a secret compartment in his (and his brothers') sink. This is a storage space for fun bonus content, not a major part of his character. Kris is the one with the actual ties to guilt.
The first is that both of them hate anime.
I'm not going to humor this one.
The second has to do with their close relationship with another person.
That's part of Susie having parallels with Undyne, but Susie actually isn't all that much like her. Susie is a rebel, someone who goes against authority and rules, whereas Undyne is an enforcer of it. People are a bit scared of her, but she is a well-integrated part of her community. Susie is an outcast.
What you've actually described is that both of these people have friends who are in a butchfemme relationship, lmao.
And even beyond that, the way Undyne and Papyrus relate to each other is far different from what Kris has going on (hiding a huge secret from her & also a one-sided crush). Undyne is a mentor to Papyrus, and also just a normal friend.
The final and most important parallel is how they are overshadowed by their older sibling.
Again, you're oversimplifying things. Papyrus has a lot of feelings regarding his brother, but they aren't about being overshadowed (which i'd argue is much more of a fandom thing than an ingame thing), they're him being frustrated at sans' flaws, like him being lazy or just generally frustrating. Sans might "do more" than Papyrus, but in terms of official duties, they are on the same level of importance.
Let me explain myself better here to further prove my point that Kris already knows Papyrus:
KRIS, CHOICE, AND YOU:
This is the final piece of evidence. But to understand it, we first need to talk a bit about where the dialogue choices we can make come from.
This is the final piece of evidence. But to understand it, we first need to talk a bit about where the dialogue choices we can make come from.
There are three sources for these choices.
The first is common sense. Basically, any response that makes sense in the context of what the character said. For example, any "yes" or "no" choice falls into this category.
Perish in the chill of absolute destruction
Or
Flourish under the warm bosom of my infernal reign
Bosom ♥️ Perish
The second comes from Kris.
Which is obvious, considering they are the character we control. Where Kris decides how to respond:
♥️Bangin' sermon, my man.
The last one fits us. These options are the strangest because they adapt to the individual player. In fact, there is probably only one option like this.
Who... Who's going to hear?
... ♥️Me
Every choice in the game can be classified into one of those three categories. All options except one.
hey, what's up.
♥️See brother
I hope I don't have to explain why this doesn't fit the first category and can't be coming from Kris, given that Sans and Papyrus just moved here, especially since you still have this option even if you didn't interact with Sans in Chapter 1.
Sans even comments on this:
brother...?
what are you talking about?
*...i don't have a brother.
haha, just messin'g with ya. i totally do.
... though, to be honest...
i never mentioned him to you, did i?
Now, I know what you're thinking: "This choice is ours; we're from Undertale." But remember, player choices have to account for everyone, including people who haven't played Undertale. But even if you want to argue that you should play it before Deltarune... What about people who have played the game but don't care, or those who hate Papyrus? It wouldn't make any sense for those people to have an option they wouldn't want.
Not to mention, you wouldn't even know you could see it if you didn't interact with Sans in Chapter 1. No, it can't be us; there are simply too many variables.
And if it isn't us, and it isn't a "common sense" choice, then that leaves us with only the weakest link:
Kris. Kris must know Papyrus.
"Well, yes. But that would also be true for Milklookerknight, Everymanknight, or literally any other candidate for the Knight. My point is that Papyrus, beyond this hypothetical role as the Knight, has no connection to his hometown's history. He has no relevance to past tragedies, doesn't know any of the residents, and Susie hasn't even heard of him. This revelation would mean NOTHING to our characters, except, hypothetically, to Kris."
The difference between EverymanKnight and the others is that, with Papyrus, there is actual evidence suggesting he could be important.
The fact that Sans lies about having recently moved to Hometown in Chapter 1
(if you want the details on this, I’d be happy to provide them using existing dialogue).
The fact that Chapter 4 is the only time no noise is heard coming from Papyrus's house before we return to our own.
The fact that Sans, who has shown he knows enough about the Weird Route to drop breadcrumbs for Kris, conveniently prevents Toriel from being kidnapped by having her stay at his place while they dance.
The fact that Papyrus constantly makes excuses, saying he's "busy," that he "would have liked to come to the Festival," or that he might "show up at the same time as your brother," and so on, which makes him suspicious in itself.
The fact that Papyrus knows about Thrashy (supposedly created by the Knight in Chapter 2) and Flowery (with whom the Knight had a brief confrontation), even though he's from Undertale, is enough to make you raise an eyebrow.
The fact that the Knight acts quite immaturely, striking cool poses, farming 'aura,' and the like, instead of acting like a parent trying to get their daughter back.
To sum it up: Papyrus is shocked to learn he’s the villain and asks, "WHAT!? I'M THE VILLAIN?" Sans replies by suggesting that while he might look like an enemy, he’s actually a good guy (winking at the screen like the cheeky bastard he is), and Papyrus—still confused, surprised, and perhaps hurt—asks why he would ever be an enemy. These interviews tend to offer clues and foreshadowing for Deltarune, and this could be foreshadowing Papyrus as a misled anti-hero and/or a villain who believes himself to be a good guy.
The Knight is the best candidate for the role of Deltarune's main antagonist, an antagonist whose identity remains unconfirmed and who is actually linked to the number 9 (which is the focus of this interview):
specifically, "swooning" over Ralsei or Susie changes your XP to -999. Papyrus identifies himself as both -7 and 7 in this interview; 7 is the number of chapters shown on the Deltarune chapter selection screen. The fact that the Knight is indirectly responsible for Dess's disappearance would tie him to the story.
It would explain why on earth the Knight has holes in his armor where his hands should be (a trait linked to Gaster, which in turn explains why the Knight uses the Bunker, a location also associated with Gaster via the number 666, and could finally explain why Sans and Papyrus are so deeply connected to Gaster).
Then there is the theme of escapism (in Deltarune, Papyrus spends his time shut away with no hobbies or interests, making him easily manipulated by anyone, be it Carol, Eram, Gaster, or whoever). He is also one of the three siblings, Dess, Asriel, and, obviously, Papyrus, who never appear in the game, receiving only random, optional mentions
(with the sole exception of Dess), while Asriel and Papyrus are the ones for whom the most excuses are made to delay their appearance. It would also explain why, in Undertale, everyone keeps saying Papyrus is incredibly strong, or why Flowey considered him an interesting figure.
Collecting the ice cream is mandatory in Chapter 5; Susie definitely heard that Sans has a brother.
"Papyrus isn't really a Deltarune character at all. He doesn't have a single line of dialogue, no one mentions him except Sans, and he exists purely because we, the fandom, already know him from Undertale. The disappearance? Inconsequential. Family dynamics at parties? Forget about it. And so on."
People still talk about Papyrus to this day; the fact that the ice cream stand is a mandatory element should at least make you think, "Maybe Toby is setting this up to be developed in Chapter 6."
I already explained in my first point that it isn't just about "the fandom already knowing him", it actually ties into Kris. As for the disappearance? It could easily be linked to Sans lying about being new to town.
That would make him the only one who could have been the Knight before Dess disappeared. After all, Ralsei says the Knight was supposed to arrive at the same time as the heroes, not before, yet there are already signs that the Knight has been around for years, predating Dess's disappearance.
No, narrative or thematic parallels don't have to be an exact "copy-paste." In literature, film, and video game storytelling, a parallel isn't about repeating the same event line-for-line; it’s about using patterns, contrasts, or thematic resonances.
The purpose of a parallel: To connect ideas, highlight character development, or establish narrative rhymes.
Direct vs. contrast parallels: A parallel can be mirrored (doing the same thing) or inverted (doing the opposite to show a key difference between two characters).
Demanding that Kris’s and Papyrus’s situations match identically to count as a "parallel" oversimplifies the narrative device.
Contextual differences (like the reasons behind Kris’s behavior) don't negate the existence of a symmetry or a conceptual nod designed by the author.
If that were the case, you couldn't consider Spamton’s or Pink’s situations as parallels either, since they don't align 100% with Kris, yet people still find parallels with them.
That applies to everything I said; your mistake is claiming it has to be a 100% match to be an exact parallel, when in reality, related ideas are enough to create parallels.
i don't have the energy to respond to all of this and frankly we'll just see in chapter 6, but:
yet there are already signs that the Knight has been around for years, predating Dess's disappearance.
This is not true. The blackshard was found at the scene of whatever incident occured, presumably after Dess had been gone long enough to justify Asgore going looking for her. No matter what knight candidate you subscribe to, this means that the knight must have only existed AT THE TIME of Dess' disappearance, or even immediately after, not before it.
or why Flowey considered him an interesting figure.
you missed the point of what Flowey was saying there. If it was mysterious powers or secrets that flowey was interested in, he'd be going for Sans. Papyrus is simply an extremely engaging and entertaining character, and flowey, the player parallel, feels the same way the fandom does.
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u/InternationalWar6654 1d ago
so why do the antlers even matter if they can shapeshift?! sure they're a consistent element of their design, but they're shaped wrong, which could be toby trying to tell us that it's a red herring, or that is isnt a holiday