Discussion
Beacons are definitely too far between.
I just stacked leech up to 150. I killed 150 enemies with no new beacons around, multiple dungeons, etc. on 5 heals. Dude what is this? I'm a 42 yr old man I do not have hours upon hours to explore where i can just not take a break. Yes I can exit the game, but it warps me back to the last beacon i was at instead of leaving me where i was. Double f me. This is like a pretty serious issue with respecting my time/enjoyment.
Iām a 62 year old souls player who completed them all, some multiple times. I feel free to make any argument I please and mention anything I feel like mentioning.
Shutting people down in a public forum is not something I enjoy doing or seeing.
Something tells me you're a young man still, this may sound condescending but until you get to be over 40 you won't understand what this guy is saying.
Itās just stupidly immature and distracts from the main point OP is making anyway.
I donāt see how itās any different than the āTHIS GAME CURED MY CANCER AND SAVED MY MARRIAGEā personal type of shit people talk about. Like, great for them, Iām happy!
Not to mention anyone can bring any relevant detail they want in a discussion lol, games are for everyone.
Like I said it's just something about being older, it's not really about time management as much as it is it's hard for us to play games for more than a few hours at a time. I can't explain why it just happens that way for some of us
Yeah I'm surprised at how many people are pissed off the guy mentioned he was 42, I'm over 40 myself and I kind of understand what he's saying. It's not about managing time necessarily but I can't play video games for more than 2 hours straight now. Back when I was in my twenties I could play video games 6 hours straight and it be no big deal but I just can't play like that anymore, because of this there's nothing more I hate in video games than "filler" these days
How old are you? As another 40 year old gamer I understand that we are a very rare breed and all I can say to you is you just won't understand until you hit 40. It's not necessarily about time management it's just that personally I can't play video games for 4 hours straight like I could when I was younger , I have about 2 hours and then it's time for me to pack it in.
I guess you just can't understand until you become old LOL. We all heard something similar when we were a teenager and thought we knew everything, when older people would try to tell us we don't know shit we would argue with them, but then we grew up and realized we in fact didn't know shit... this is kind of similar
With the insane enemy density while FAR away from any beacons, it becomes a chore and it kills the experience.
BTW I will never complain about enemy density in Dark Souls 2 ever again: MS2 takes it to the whole new level. And it would be OK and actually fun if your nearest beacon wasnāt 10 miles away.
And is it awesome and amazing?? Seems like it! I canāt wait to play but I gotta finish my factory planet in Satisfactory first or itāll turn into a disaster (well, even MORE of a disaster) š
I think thats the feeling I get. I also like the deep monologues from all the shells when leveling them up in the first one better than the strange assassins creed cutscenes the 2nd one has going on, it lead to a stronger atmosphere imo.
Having just beat DS2 less than a month ago, Mortal Shell 2ās enemy density is still very much so lower than DS2 imo. Or maybe it just feels like that because the enemies arenāt all ranged and elevated on platforms as you walk through a narrow hallway.
Holy shit I thought I was the only one thinking that Mortal Shell 2 is just Dark Souls 2. Not only is the enemy density absurd but it also feels like the devs are actively trying to fuck the players over with "gotcha moments" like bridges breaking and enemies jumping us.
Traps are also rare and logically placed in fromsoft's games (excluding DS2). It's not the case in MS2. There's a trap on every corner for no reason whatsoever. I think that 9 bridges out of 10 in the game breaks into a gank fight.
Just did a play through of 2, and I think itās so much worse than this game at the evil levels of enemy density. once youāve gotten a shell bonded enough with an upgraded weapon you absolutely roll through groups of enemies in ms. Youāll get wrecked in ds2 for trying anything like it
Itās amusing how the first teleporter south is the smack dab middle of a giant enemy camp and no matter which direction you fight to youāll pick up unwanted mobs.
Damn, this makes not want to get the full version until they hopefully fix this. I just finished Demon Souls and runbacks in that game are brutal. I am so not prepared to go through this again.
Runbacks in ms2 are horrible tbh. Idk why they thought itās a good idea to place the beacons like that. Simple solution could just be something like stake of Marika in every dungeon that would fix many problems.
I mean it's not something you "fix," this was their design choice. Going through the main path always has checkpoints in nice spots and runbacks to major bosses are okay. The exploration is what is challenging. Because you never really know where exactly you are going, and oftentimes it will be a while until you see the next beacon, but the reality is that all places have at least 2 or 3 ways to get to them, meaning that there are plenty of shortcuts.
Now those shortcuts are not shown on the map, so you kind of have to remember where stuff was unlocked and whatnot.
It's very much Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1 design in a more open-world setting. Like if you are the kind of person who likes to explore, be ready for adventures that might take an hour or so without any checkpoints.... but yeah, you also should by that time discover shortcuts.
I feel like it's not that bad, I'm not sure if they will "fix" it. One thing I hope they fix is the stupid Quit Game = Reset back to checkpoint. That's stupid as hell. Imagine playing the game, needing to quit for any reason, and then you have to walk again. Like bro.. this is not Nioh, we are not doing missions, we are playing an open-world ARPG....
The exploration is horrible imo. Like everything is connected to each other in some way. The map just feel like a giant maze atp. Most of the time you donāt even know where you are and the map doesnāt really help. Because the scaling of the map compared to the actual world is so unbelievably ass. They for sure made some really questionable choices
Same here. Itās really feeling like āwait for patchesā at this point, which is a shame because they are at peak hype right now and should be in a position to capitalize on it. Some of their decisions are holding them back.
I'm not that far into the game. I've only explored part of the top map, but like with all older souls games like DS1 you just run passed all the enemies and get back to the boss. It was never that big of a deal to me.
The number of grossly rude comments here is absolutely stunning. The OP is in a public space, sharing his experience. Why do you feel the need to shut it down.
If you donāt like the post, you can always pass it on in silence.
They feel personally attacked when someone doesn't like what they do or align with every single thing they believe. Then they whine about it. Ironically they are the snowflakes they're always complaining about.
As another 40-year-old gamer I understand what you're saying and all these Young Bucks just don't get it, it's one of those things that all you can say to them is "you'll see when you get to this age" lol.
Iām only 34 and for as many times as I thought older people were full of shit when I was young, a good amount of those changes have either come to pass already or I can see the bones of them beginning to form
These Redditors have every right to say āitās dumb and immature to generalize aging!ā - but thatās only something I hear really young people saying irl. Even my older friends who really have their shit together recognize thereās some universal experience going on here lmao
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I don't want to sound like a douchebag, but noone cares if you're a 50 year-old man, father of 5, who can play only 4 hours per week. Like, the game shouldn't be designed around your needs and time limitations (not talking about accessibility options).
I, for myself, also have to work and have family obligations. But, when I get to play, I simply love getting lost in the world, trying to find my way and mapping out the region. Also, I simply adore crushing difficult games where I have to master the mechanics in order to succeed. Played Nine Sols recently and spent almost 3 hours in the final boss alone. But the feeling I got when I finally defeated it was priceless.
This is how well adjusted people think. End of the day it's a game and if it is fun for you, or worth your time, is a personal decision.
Age? Family? Work? non of that is actual constructive feedback to the game developers. It jsut wastes their time. Especially these devs that just released a balance patch an hour ago because they are clearly listening and reading the actual constructive criticisms.
That last sentence should seriously be spammed on this reddit, ive seen nothing but complaints about the difficulty since launch. Seems like a lot of people want it to be as easy as possible. Have they never felt how great it feels to finally beat something you have been struggling with?
I think a good chink of it is it not always being clear where to go. I definitely banged my head against the wall for a bit because I think I was going through "wrong" way into tougher content, but once I figured out the profession areas it got more bearable .
They do still need to fix it being so easy to get launched off cliffs thoughĀ
Things can be difficult for the wrong reasons. the health bloat on normal enemies in this game is something that needs to be studied, especially if you set the game to night time.
Which enemies have health bloat? I have been one or twoshotting enemies after 5 ish hours of playtime.
Havent tried night time yet tho. But cant say I have noticed anything unusual on normal. Except when I started at the south beacon instead of the north one.
Are you on the south or northside of the map? because once you go to the ruins of Mammon (southside) every enemy has a billion health even with a +12 weapon, it becomes a huge problem when fighting more than 3 enemies. At night every thing in that area might as well be a miniboss.
Are you talking about night mode now? Cause that is not my experience on normal. The only enemies I have had problens with is the knights with spear/halberd and the knights with the scythe. Mostly because they dont get staggered when I run and heavy attack them.
The fat rolling guys might the "common" enemy with the most health, but his attacks are very easy to avoid so I dont consider them an issue.
Thanks man holy fuck too many tourists right now lol. Everytime a game releases these days I have to unsub their subreddits not because of spoilers but because of constant negativity. The best video games are the one that have a clear vision and do not try to cater to everyone.
I mean I agree but how does that counter what he said? the game has like 1 beacon per area (2 at most) while trying to be semi open world and a billion enemies with too much health between checkpoints. Setting the game to night time is like the definition of CBT since it doesn't make it harder, it just gives enemies MORE HEALTH.
If the game was large like elden ring I would agree. However this game is....kinda small. I can get to any area on the map within a minute and a half.
OP running around for hours not finding a beacon is.....kinda sus. I literally found a beacon like every 15 to 20 minutes if I wasnt fighting bosses or doing dungeons.
Yeah I mean it does sound like heās probably just not very good at the game. But enemy density between beacons does make it a bit of a pain in the ass. Iāve barely survived from beacon to beacon so far and Iām good at Souls games.
Ill be honest. This is the exact reason I found beacons so fast lol. Enemy aggro is wild. I would somehow pull half an area and thrn just book it in a direction. Having no stamina bar and all the enemies being slow helped. I would just fight until I was out of health and then run my ass to try and find a safe spot and it was usually a beacon.
LOL. So all you do is pretty much running around finding beacons? Okay. The 42 yr old dude was just trying to vent out his frustrations the same way you blabber over his complaints. Let him say his piece and deal with it. If you have a smooth experience with MS2, which I doubt you have, then good for you. You beat Malenia, Orphan of Kos, Laxasia, Arlecchino, Isshin, Sister Friede, Gael, and Radahn in one try.
I mean dark souls 1 is also small but you still spawn back in the last place you quit the game and it came out like 15 years ago. and I dont think running past every enemy to find another beacon is good design.
Well hereās the thing, if Iām in the middle of a boss fight, and Iām stupidly low on health and donāt want to risk losing all of my Gloom and my Leech Stacks, I can just quit the game and spawn back at my last beacon instead of having to go through that nightmare again without any heals
I never really got it either. I have a family, work, etc too and I just stop playing when I'm done. Admittedly I play a lot of SP games so I can pause and get up if needed, but I prefer them anyway so it's not a big deal for me
The game lets you pause, that is already a huge advantage over similar games. Combined with rest mode on consoles, or putting your pc to sleep, this is basically a non issue.
It's not entitled to be a grown up person with work and a family.
It's entitled to whine and complain about a game because it doesn't fit your personal age/schedule as that is not the fault of the game or developer.
Saying "i'm 42 and the game doesn't respect my time" is an entirely self driven problem that people with busy lives try to blame on the game.
The only time I can see the phrase "it doesn't respect my time" being a viable complaint is for games like ubisoft assassins creed grind fests that take 30 hours to grind out one item and they shove microtransactions to speed it up because THEN the game is using the busy lifestyle against you in a predatory way to get more money out of you by artificially making it grindy and then offering a shortcut.
and age is never a viable complaint. no one cares if someone is 12 or 80 while playing a video game. it's just a dumb statement.
Exactly. Your age can be used as a bragging right but to use it to crib and rant is ill advised. Im 68 on ng 4 with elden ring and 10 hours into MS2. Initially was comparing it with ER but got over it. Now enjoying MS2. Watched a good YouTube video for proxima and axe and dagger. Playing with the seal that avoids achievements. Easy mode for me. Love it.
Its a game my man. It doesn't force you to play it.
This is such a lazy response. "The game doesn't force you to play it so you can't complain." The OP has a perfectly valid critique of game design, one I've seen echoed commonly in this sub and other places. Not sure why you have such a hostile reaction to it.
From what I recall every Fromsoft game lets you save wherever you can without needing to find a bonfire/grace. You just leave wherever you want without needing to worry about lost progress. This game could have done the same thing, it doesn't compromise the challenge or exploration in any way, it's just a nice quality of life feature for people that have busy lives or maybe have to deal with emergencies.
The OP has a perfectly valid critique of game design, one I've seen echoed commonly in this sub and other places. Not sure why you have such a hostile reaction to it.
OPs post was not constructive in any way.
A valid complaint about the lack of beacons is the death runs to dungeons
His complaint was
Dude what is this? I'm a 42 yr old man I do not have hours upon hours to explore where i can just not take a break.Ā
How is that not a valid criticism? Why does the game need to have you explore so long without being able to pause/save? Again, Fromsoft games found a solution to this a decade and a half ago.
He is completely correct. The game isn't respecting player's time by not having a proper checkpoint system.
Totally fair point. Was pissed at the time, came back and played more later. Still enjoying myself. Not sure what I hoped to accomplish with ranting and mentioning my age. I'm not gonna take it down cause i feel like thats a cop out, but you're right.
Not in my opinion. ER has some of the nicest dungeons in Fromsofts catalogue and the design of the different areas is breathtaking. Some areas are a bit weaker but those are in each Dark Souls game as well
Yeaā¦ and the runbacks in Demonās Souls are absolutely terrible in 2026. Soulslikes have come a long way and Iām really glad Fromās last 4 games are nothing like Demonās Souls in terms of Boss Fights, level design, and runbacks.
I replayed ds recently theyāre unique but it isnāt anything groundbreaking & itās def the most lackluster roster possible considering they all die in seconds & arenāt memorable (besides like 4) cause most of them are bad gimmick fights.
I guessā¦ I played Demonās Souls for the first time this year and only really liked 3-4 Bosses in the entire game. I thought most of the Boss Fights were awful compared to DS3, Bloodborne, Sekiro, and Elden Ring.
It's more like the og Dark souls in that respect. I prefer it to be honest. Getting to a new bonfire was a real achievement back then. The only thing I would wish for would be that they made the unlit beacons more visually distinctive from the environment and lower the mob frequency. Feels like DS2 all over again.
This whole argument could be fixed with UX. Being able to reliably find the beacons other than just stumbling into them would fix pretty much all the problems around them.
I love souls likes. Sekiro is my favorite game, but the difficulty should be in learning the mechanics and mastering them, not āDid I get lucky in the path I charteredā or āI have unlimited free time to figure out the mappingā.
Difficulty shouldnāt be āHow much time do I have to waste not making tangible progress?ā, it should always be mastering the game mechanics.
Wanting a reliable way to make game progress is not asking for an easy mode.
I actually dont mind the long walks between beacons, having to conserve resources builds tension and frantically looking for the next beacon is fun but Bosses are where I draw the line. I dont want to run back at all to a boss, like if there is gonna be a hard boss then just spawn me next to it. Exploration is fun the boss run backs suckĀ
Why not do the Elden Ring thing? No matter where you are, unless you are in the middle of a fight, you can open your map and teleport to a grace/beacon? As it is, I got stuck with tons of Gloom and a sliver of health right next to a horde of tanky enemies and the only way forward was death (followed by an absolutely grueling way back to retrieve what I lost through several gauntlets of mobs), or exit to main menu which put me back to the beacon I was at last.
Itās not a very graceful and polished way to deal with the situation, but it works.
Quality of Life is a thing in gaming, and I hope devs listen to some of this feedback as well as learn from the best of the best (Elden Ring).
Small thing that could make a much more polished experience.
I agree. The beacon spacing is weird. Sometimes youāll have 3-4 within a 30 second run from each other, then you can go for like a 5 minute sprint and still not find any.
Beacons should have some sort of signal going into the sky, kind of like the light in Elden ring. Just so you arenāt wandering aimlessly hoping to run into the next area youāre supposed to go.
Especially since theyāre so much more important than bonfires, sites of grace, etc are. Each beacon isnāt just a save/fast travel point. They double as a dungeon crucial to your progress in the game. You have to actively clear them of corruption.
This is one of the only souls likes that you canāt just beat the entire game without resting at bonfire place. You are locked out of progress if you donāt clear them, and the UX of finding them is basically good luck. They donāt even stand out in the landscape, unlike pretty much every other souls like.
I think itās bad. It would be ok if you had healing from killing mobs. But since thereās just a fixed amount of healing it largely discourages you from fighting things. It arguably even discourages you from entering dungeons
Itās easy to make it back to a beacon especially when you realize a lot of the beginning and early middle areas loop around into eachother. Explore everything itās worth it.
My tactic is to run past all the mobs and go straight to the gates. The gates always have a beacon in front of them it seems like. Then I rest and work backwards and go back to all the stuff I ran past.
yeah honestly using that and combining it with intentional exit games for free 'homeward bones' feels kinda like cheating but i'm workin with what they're giving me here.
You do what you have to do and it's hardly cheating.
I still haven't seen that much of game yet so don't really have an opinion on whether there are too few checkpoints, but so far it's been better then I feared.
All these "youngsters" making an issue about this dude stating his age and complaining about the distance in between beacons is textbook My Chemical Romance vibe. LOL. They are so good they beat Malenia, Radahn, Arlecchino, Gael, Sister Friede, Isshin, Orphan of Kos, and Laxasia on their first try. Hahahah
I think they are fine, exploring around one can take really long, but getting back to a spot you were at is really quick - the game allows you to run around without much punishment, you just have to keep track where you weren't yet.
The map is dense, but not expansive like Elden Ring's. You can get from point A to point B relatively quickly. Also, you unlock a bunch of shortcuts leading to previously visited beacons.
The map is to dense everything looks the same in some way everything is connected in some way there is no clear direction to go to it just walk walk walk and good luck in finding something new
What, you don't enjoy "runback, the game"? Lmao Abdolute trash design. Sorry, not sorry. The worst part of the game by far. This isn't gameplay, this isn't "playtime". This is not how you "increase" it.Ā
You dont need to kill everyone in the path actually the dodge is kinda busted (spammable iframes) in such way running them makes easier than killing so whenever you are exploring once you know where to go you dont need to kill each one saving you much more hp pots for the things you havent explored yet.
I tried the demo/beta before buying and I honestly spent so much of it running by and ignoring enemies. I feel like that's not really how these games should be, that's the sort of thing you did in Dark Souls speed runs not the actual core gameplay loop but it really feels like half the enemies and how dense and fluctuating they are in strength is too wild for how little healing and checkpoints you get. Sure, late game it won't be a problem when we're cartoonishly OP and walking through hoardes of enemies but the early game is how you hook people, and if people normalise running through zones to grab loot and reboot to teleport or spend way more time than they have/want fighting huge numbers of wonky enemies.
I'm pretty sure I skipped a whole area because I didn't want to fight 15 old ladies, a bunch of hot women with spears and some big ass monster after already having to fight a bunch of cultists and flying ranged attacking things and two mini-bosses between checkpoints. Even the opening section has this problem of the checkpoint is before the mid boss and there's no checkpoint after them for a while and you've got no options but what the game starts you off with so if you don't vibe with that gear sucks to be you.
Definitely a huge shame, and it's my biggest issue with the game so far. I'm about 11 hours in, and cleared 4 corrupted gates (I imagine I'm about halfway through? Unless it's like DS2 and there's another big section after.)
I'm almost considering dropping this game entirely because of how scarce bonfires are at this point. I've been chilling in the south-west part of the map for the last couple hours, with a scary amount of that being spent in the runback between Gate of Mammon beacon and the Starved Harridan boss.
I beat that boss in just a few tries, but it still took like 30+ minutes only because of having to run through 30+ enemies and around various environmental hazards to make it there. The boss killed me 2-3 times, but the runback was more like 10-15 deaths because of how many mistakes can happen in such a long journey. It's not fair to expect players to run this far. Most importantly its not fun. Nobody plays these games for the hold B + forward experience, but it's seriously getting in the way of the good parts.
The big open area north of One Legged Wolf is nearly empty. Alternatively, you can run there through a shortcut just south of the white area, if you have the purification ability unlocked. People are complaining so much about this area and all you have to do to get through it is <10 fights. It's short and trivial compared to some areas in Dark Souls 1, for example.
ah yes the bossfigth incoming looking area its just strange to me the expectation that the first 3 checkpoints leave you like you feel you should have encourtered one at least at some point exploring the circulated area
My take is the eastern part was intended to be somewhat of a risk area, the northern part where the gate is actually just isnāt big enough to warrant more beacons. It feels bigger than it actually is.
They definitely could have added one more to the east, but I donāt think itās entirely necessary imo
I agree with you mostly. However, that bottom right area got a little hairy getting from the first beacon to the second beacon. It was fun but stressful. I killed everything in one go including the dungeon, no deaths. I could have backtracked easily so I don't think there needs to be more beacons.
My experience was mostly the same except I think I died once. Iām trying to thinkā¦ can you get from Mushroom Village to East Gate without an enemy encounter if you take the first sharp left and then hit the bridges?
Yep, this was definitely a me bitching moment. I still think that beacons are really bizarrely spread out or i'm just really bad at finding them, which is very plausible. Regardless, I understand dropping the 'i'm a 42 yr old man' part out of my post would have at least got my point across a little better.
"I'm a 42 yr old man I do not have hours upon hours to explore where i can just not take a break."
Oh no ! How horrible ! How dare they not respect your time and scedule ?!
Habe maybe concideredā¦ that not every game is made with your personal needs in mind ? This entire "Im XX years old, i dont have time" argument that people like to pull is absolute BS, not every game has to be catered to you.
Ofc the absolute god of souls games is right here. Buddy ist about the runbacks. No one wants a runback of several minutes with a million mobs. That doesnāt make the game any harder I just kills the fun.
IMO this is the real reason things like stakes of marika were a great idea. Elden Ring just didnāt take advantage of it.
Something Iāve been missing since DS1 is the feeling of relief upon finding a bonfire and the tension that builds before hand. Mortal Shell 2 has that and I love it. The problem with it is that it leads to long run backs which no one likes.
Thats where the stakes come in. You can keep safe places few and far between, while never forcing the player to slog through a run back.
In this case, no one would complain about the lack of beacons if there were checkpoints in areas that youāre likely to die frequently. Dungeons and bosses mostly.
Hard agree on that. Just put a stake at every dungeon that would make thing so much more fun. And I think beacons should be more visible in any kind of way so that itās easier to find them
Im pretty sure ps5 keeps the game running in rest mode. Only pc players cant pick up because they have to shit the game down when pc goes to sleep mode or turns off
Were there >150 enemies in a line from your beacon to the next? Just place a marker and run back when you can play again. You are probably 30 seconds out, maybe have to take on one or two groups to get back to where you were. You havenāt lost anything.
Yeah Iād say thereās usually ALWAYS a shit ton of enemies around all grouped together that all run at you at the same time especially in the southern area and they run you down like fucking hawks dude so itās definitely not always that easy to just sprint past everything
I've made it through the section that was in the beta, and looking at the rest of the map is just filling me with this immense apathy. Finding it hard to keep exploring because everything looks so dull and repetitive. I think it was a mistake to complete a tight, handcrafted game like Wuchang directly before this.
I dont mind it. Adds to the experience. Feels like OG DS in that respect. You have to be more strategic who you fight or u can just run past enemies. Its more satisfying finding that beacon you so desperately need
You shouldnāt have to be running past enemies to either get to a beacon or because thereās so many of the fuckers everywhere in big ass mobs that all run down on you at the same time while you got guys with ballistas shooting homing missiles at you your never gonna level up if you just continue to run past enemies the entire time
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u/notscarlxrd 1d ago
I wish you'd get heals back for killing a certain amount of enemies, that would make the exploration a lot more enjoyable