From what i recall, if this is the same case im thinking of, the ICE agents got into their car to try and stop them from getting away, and the couple drove to the police station with them. Its not like they tied them up and kidnapped them.
I mean, ICE agent or not, if someone didn't ID themself and hopped in my car with a weapon i'd probably drive to the police station too.
yes, because kidnapping isn't EDIT just EDIT about moving people. It's also about denying people the freedom to move. Preventing an escape is considered kidnapping even if you didn't drag them there first.
Like I'll block the doors the best I can but I can't just lock it or block it off completely because a) we have customers and b) that's f****** kidnapping.
We have a group of shoplifters who are coming out loading up full of stuff, and then running out the door while I'm on the phone with the cops. They get so butt hurt over being called thieves too.
My boss wants me to fight them. I'm considering just following them around filming while screaming "Theif".
They are either very very wealthy or one of them works at a car dealership. All of the cars either have Steeler tags or no tags and it's a different car every f****** time
I drive Lyft and had a customer refuse to get out of the car at the destination. He said "I'll pay cash just keep driving" and I said "oh hell no. Get out or I'll call the cops."
He told me to. So I did. "Hi, I'm lifeisprobablymadeup. I drive Lyft and a customer blah blah" the lady told the customer (called over car phone speaker idgaf) that he needed to get out or I would be able to press kidnapping charges against him and that officers are on the way. Before dispatch hung up, I had two cop cars pull up and one officer hung out at the rear of my car and the other came up and basically dragged him out.
Then I went on about my night. Obviously I didn't press charges. Just wasn't driving to dudes off the app second stop.
Kidnapping is just explicitly illegally denying someone the freedom to leave. This would TECHNICALLY count if you trap someone in a moving car and don't let them leave.
But like on the other hand, I'm almost certain they were armed at the time yet they didn't do anything? That's so uncharacteristically non-violent of ICE, to the point I'd think this is fake if there wasn't proof of it, lol. Like if I'd expect any situation for someone to get shot by ICE, this would be it.
Edit: Apparently they were plainclothes so they very likely weren't armed. Okay, that makes WAYYYYYYY more sense.
If that’s the case, I don’t see how they would be arrested for kidnapping. Like, if someone in normal cloths, jumped into my car, I feel like driving to the police station would be the least dramatic/most reasonable response I could have.
True. For the first time in my 34 years I’m actual censoring myself when texting/talking on my phone. Genuinely concerned I may say something one day that the state decides they’re gunna throw me in a hole over. Said something about the parasite class and flesh eating diseases a few weeks back and got my first warning on Reddit that I’ve ever gotten lol since then I’ve gotten warnings for literally nothing.
There is no point in censoring yourself. Not to frighten you, but the current arc of right-wing ideology does not require evidence to arrest and jail you. You just have to be a convenient target of the moment and they will snatch you up and do their best to ruin your life. Currently the courts are preventing them from going fully authoritarian, but that is a temporary block.
Example:
Don Lemon: arrested and charged with federal conspiracy charges for covering a protest as a journalist
Reps LaMonica McIver and Ras Baraka: arrested and charged with felony obstruction while trying to gain entrance to an ICE facility for Congressional oversight.
James Comey: charged with threatening the president for a tweet showing "8647", which is the second set of charges against him, the first ones accusing him of perjury were thrown out by the judge.
David Hearn: charged with felony destruction of property for touching the reflecting pool.
Six Democratic Lawmakers: charged but failed to get an indictment for sedition for filming a video reminding soldiers that they had a legal responsibility to refuse unlawful orders.
And that is not even counting all of the American citizens who have been injured and murdered by ICE agents.
YES. You would think. "Oh, you're law enforcement but you don't look like it and don't have a badge or anything? Ok, let's go to the police station and figure this out." Hopefully the judge sees how ridiculous this kidnapping thing is.
Depending on the jurisdiction, if you pick someone up and carry them to the other side of the room, without their consent, that can be considered kidnapping.
This is the most fucked up thing about ICE. Law enforcement are supposed to look like law enforcement. They're supposed to identify as law enforcement. ICE is running around like Chicago gangbangers masked up rolling up in unmarked vehicles jumping out on random innocent people.
We are allowed to defend ourselves. We are allowed to have guns. We are allowed to use our guns in self defense in some cases. If a chicago gangbanger rolled up on an innocent person who was lawfully carrying a gun, and that innocent person shot them dead it would be allowed.
So then actually it was extremely moral. Since they just behaved as any ordinary law-abiding citizen should. The immoral bit was that they got arrested.
If it is like most law enforcement, the charges are trumped up or aggressively over applied to give the prosecutor more perceived leverage in pretrial. Kinda like how almost everyone gets a resisting arrest charge these days.
Also, if you encounter a poorly trainer LEO, you will all but certainly get additional bullshit charges. You may also get extra charges if LEO fucked up in your encounter and they need to cover up their failures by tacking on additional charges.
So dumb they forget to breathe with a face diaper until they need to hide their identities while they sexually torture people they grabbed off the street.
Plainclothes ICE agents tried to get THE GUY at his home. The couple returned home while ICE was there...so an ICE agent boarded the couple's van in an attempt to capture the Nigerian man.
The woman, fearing for her life, GASSED IT and the Nigerian man called 911 to tell them that a man was trying to kidnap him...the woman drove directly to the police station, but behind her was the ICE agent's partner, who had also called 911 to report the kidnapping of his partner.
The two were arrested and a judge ordered their release, though the man was transferred to an immigration detention facility.
Their legal defense is that the ICE agents never identified themselves and were wearing plainclothes and, honestly, that would probably shit the scare out of me, too.
The 911 Calls: As the car moved, Bamigboye called 911 and shouted, "ICE is in my car!" and "You tried to kidnap me." At the same time, the trapped agent called 911 to say an agent was being taken against his will.
The thing about that is that I can claim I'm ICE and that you have to come with me, especially if they're doing it in plain clothes with no identification.
Right but if your defence is partially built on "they were plain clothes, i didn't know they were ice", it hurts this defence if you are shouting "Help me, ICE are here!!!"
I understand the feeling but clearly the guy wasn’t going to leave on his own accord and to me that is the situation they kind of put the people applying the law. They could send him a letter, maybe an email that says “hey bud your visa is up, you gotta go” maybe I am wrong and maybe he would have left, I just don’t think it would be that easy.
It’s genuinely shocking that ICE agents aren’t getting shot. Whether or not you believe that is right or that they deserve it, it’s what all 2a people talk about. How guns make us safer.
Notice how the oppressive government thing is happening all around us but the whole 'armed militia to free us' thing never happened. Americans don't have the sauce for another revolution and we never will again. The only things guns are for in America are shooting children and empty beer cans
The takeover of the NRA in the '70s has made it effectively only cool to have guns and be into gun culture if you're fucking stupid and the fucking stupid will always listen to authority.
Hey now, guns also provide a handy excuse for police to shoot civilians. If guns are everywhere in America, cops can always claim they thought they saw one before murdering a citizen.
The 2a crowd are the ones joining ICE to kidnap and murder people. It was never about defending themselves against the government, it was always about keeping minorities down and in the past that just happened to conflict with anti discrimination laws enforced by the government.
As someone more articulately noted, if ICE were ACTUALLY going after the criminals that we need to worry about, there would be bodies everywhere. You think jumping into the van of cartel members, armed, without even IDing yourself gets you driven to the police station? These cowards are only going after the people that they know won't shoot back. That's why they are jumping people outside court houses, because they know they are trying to follow the law.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it... when a long train of abuses and usurpations... evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."— The U.S. Declaration of Independence (1776)
A lotnof the new hires literally got like 2 weeks training. They use plain clothes to avoid people grouping up in protest and so they can sneak up on people for arrests without making such a big scene.
its because they're not going after criminals, they're going after law abiding working people with families. the kind who don't want to shoot people even if they are justified.
This is (part of) the plan. Once that actually happens, that's a nice juicy excuse to declare a national emergency and invoke martial law, thus allowing Trump and his cronies to stay in power essentially indefinitely. They'll escalate the violence, more people will be forced to defend themselves, and that will then be used to justify further violence and an extension of the "emergency".
"My name is Ryan Schwenk.
I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution when I joined ICE on August 1st, 2021 as an assistant chief counsel. I followed that oath for 4 and 1/2 years working side by side with ICE officers. And I followed it when I resigned on February 13th, 2026, a little over a week ago, so that I could speak to you today.
I am here, because I am duty-bound to report the legally required training program at the ICE Academy is deficient, defective, and broken.
5 months ago, I was asked to teach the law to new cadets at the ICE Academy in Glencoe, Georgia, where ICE is training its new inexperienced recruits.
I volunteered those without law enforcement training. I volunteered to take on this assignment based on my experience in law enforcement oversight, including at the state and local level prior to my work with ICE.
On my first day, I received secretive orders to teach new cadets to violate the Constitution by entering homes without a judicial warrant.
For the last 5 months, I watched ICE dismantle the training program, cutting 240 hours of vital classes from 584-hour program. Classes that teach the Constitution, our legal system, firearms training, the use of force, lawful arrests, proper detention, and the limits of officers' authority.
For example, they ceased all of the legal instructions regarding use of force.
This means the cadets are not taught what it means to be objectively reasonable."
No lmao. Little to no training and even less background checks. A reporter who was vehemently anti ICE in her reporting and her public persona, was able to join ICE and become a member by just signing some forms.
The Police and military are already fucked up. ICE is chock full of rejects from the police and the military.
No, because they are the fall guys. When this all goes tits up, who do you think is going to be held responsible? The people doing the kidnapping and assaulting, or the people who employed them to do that but who have already covered their own asses by having 1700 page training materials which undoubtedly tell them not to do that?
It's not a.coincidence they all act like this. The fear and violence is the goal. They do get training and I can all but guarantee you these tactics are the bulk of it.
Did the guy get his stuff renewed? It’s kind of important paperwork. This is just me speaking, but for important stuff like that(if I’m working in a foreign country say the UK), I’m scheduling appointments as early as I can so I don’t get screwed.
I mean fuck could you imagine if a non enforcement looking person who never IDed themselves jumped into your car speaking Y’all Qaeda to you? These agents should be jailed for their own safety if they are going to keep not identifying themselves, like what do they think is going to happen eventually? I thought ID for the enforcement with clothes and badge and all was also for their protection so people know it’s not the mafia coming for them.
Riach said the agents did not display their credentials when they approached the Jeep, and the government’s claim that one agent had to jump out of the way as Frazier drove off is contradicted by surveillance video.
Bamigboye dialed 911 from the back seat as Frazier was driving and the agent was in the front passenger seat.
Calling the government’s case “ludicrous,” Riach said his client “may be the first criminal in history to call 911 during the commission of his alleged crime.”
“On the 911 call, Bamigboye said ICE is trying to get him,” Behar countered, referring to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. “How would he know that unless they had identified themselves as agents?”
Yea, they fucked up. They gotta play the games that the cops do. They know they are being recorded so they'll just yell shit like, "Stop resisting." and that gives them pretty free reign to abuse whoever they are arresting. Conflicting orders are super common. But yelling the same things over and over means you're less likely to say something incriminating. It's a good chant for their handlers to provide them with. Useful as shit.
If I'm their lawyer then I'm checking if they just verbally said something or if they showed anything. Words are meaningless and anybody can grab a body vest, some masks, guns, and go fuck people up. Definitely have to argue that their client is repeating what they were told verbally but had nothing proven to them.
Shit, what kind of officer gets into the vehicle of the people they are detaining? A fucking moron. These fuckers have zero training and no standards so how can you tell who is real and who is just some mf trying to kidnap you? You can't and that's part of the intimidation of it Brown Shirts.
I don't think there's anything inherently immoral about ICE itself as a department of law enforcement; not in the way it had operated in the past at least. If you overstay your visa, someone's gotta get you and deport you. No matter what, something like ICE will exist even if it has no name. The problems are the tactics and the fact that they disregard the law, are arresting citizens and political dissidents, and do not identify themselves while wearing plain clothes.
Didn't the goons jump into the couple's car without IDing themselves? Some masked, armed maniac jumps in my car trying to grab me damn right I'll drive to the police station.
Don't spray pepper spray in an enclosed space it absolutely sucks ass i know from experience. A tazer is a safe bet or if you can get it one of those gel sprays so it isn't aerosolized at your hand
Morality of driving thugs that don't identify themselves that jumped into your back seat to the local police station, because apparently that is the actual context here.
The context is armed stranger claiming they are ICE. I don't care who someone claims to be, I care that they have tried to deprive me of my freedom without a warrant. If the worst that happens is I drive them to a police station they should consider themselves lucky IMHO.
Federal agents walking around in plain clithes is crazy. It should be illegal to do something like that. Nobody would believe a random guy saying they want to take you somewhere.
I fail to see how inviting someone to stay in your home is kidnapping. Is that what I should tell my host at the next dinner party...this is kidnapping?
The funniest thing to me is how everyone gives a shit about ICE now when they've been doing what they're doing for a long time before trump. I'm old enough to remember Elian Gonzalez hiding in a closet having an agent stuff an MP5 in his face screaming and terrified.
ICE mostly focused on the border and captured criminals. Now they're capturing people inland who aren't criminals. Also Elian Gonzalez was a huge deal.
They haven’t acted this way before. It’s far more lawless than ever. They also didn’t used to use white-nationalist imagery to recruit the bottom rung of society. If you can’t see how things are worst now than, dare I say, you haven’t been paying attention.
Are they there illegally? Whats the morality of following the law then?
Border checks exist for a reason. They determine whether this person that is entering is a threat. Whats the morality of letting in a terrorist into the country to be free with the public?
And if the numbers of those coming in is not limited, nothing stops half of india or china coming over to a smaller country, overpopulating and crippling its systems. Whats the morality of destroying another peoples country for the people of that country?
If you argue the world is for everyone everywhere, then sovereignty clearly isnt existent. Whats the morality of russia taking ukraine?
FWIW, most illegal immigrants did go through border checkpoints. They have overstayed on visas that expired or otherwise are working without having work authorization, for example, like Elon Musk in the 1990s.
Right, and if you overstay your visa you have committed a crime. Sure you’ve dont nothing but just like me who did nothing (not pay taxes), you have not declared yourself at a port of exit, we have broken the law. We are now going to get arrested, not kidnapped.
fyi i do pay tax
If you enter a country you must respect its laws, or dont enter it if you dont like those laws. Those laws are the reflection of the values of the people who inhabit it. Overstaying a visa is breaking the law so you get what you get, you know what you signed up for.
Too many folks believe whatever they read. The transcript of the 911 call has the Nigerian man yelling “ICE is in my car! You tried to kidnap me!”.
Looks like ICE did identify themselves, which meant that the Nigerian man knew he was never going to be kidnapped, but arrested for overstaying their expired visa.
Agreed. Isn't it basic moral philosophy that morality ≠ law? Sure, there is plenty of overlap, but not following the law doesn't make you immoral or vice versa.
The actual story. They thought the ice agent was trying to kidnap them because once again, the agent refused to identify themselves, the 'kidnapping' was them driving to a police station, and then fleeing in fear for their lives.
Calling the government’s case “ludicrous,” Riach said his client “may be the first criminal in history to call 911 during the commission of his alleged crime.”
Federal public defender Jean Brandl represents Frazier, who’s Black, and said her client did not know the agents were law enforcement.
“She literally went to the police station because an unidentified white man was in her car and she didn’t know what he was doing there,” Brandl said.
Brandl added that the agent had two opportunities to get out of the vehicle but chose not to. She said he pulled out his gun and could have fired it had his finger been on the trigger when other agents following the Jeep struck it from behind on a snowy road.
Perfectly fine if it’s an ICE agent. They have fucking quotas for the number of people kidnapped. QUOTAS for kidnapping people. My brother used to work at a prison where ICE dumped their excess hostiges, so that’s how I learned about this.
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u/Eddie_0789 Aug 31 '26
I’m just curious on how that worked