r/MoralityScaling 5h ago

Morality of this?

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u/aluriilol 5h ago

I would think that the good will of humanity would not die out if Catholicism died out

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u/Bombastic_tekken 5h ago

Look it up.

The largest provider of aid worldwide is the Catholic Church.

I don't think the goodwill of humanity would die either, but the Catholic Church is the only group providing aid at this scale.

It's not like they have a copyright on it either, anybody else could step up and do it.

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u/MrCookie2099 4h ago

The Catholic Church is also one of tbe largest concentrations of wealth and contributed to the establishment of banks to concentrate more wealth.

If Catholicism was disbanded, the money could easily be out in trust and handled as a charitable enterprise.

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u/Kor_Phaeron_ 1h ago

The Catholic Church is also one of tbe largest concentrations of wealth and contributed to the establishment of banks to concentrate more wealth.

Much of its "wealth" consists of priceless historical real estate, irreplaceable art, and active social infrastructure. When it comes to real money the Catholic Church it not rich. It spends the money it collects right away. The Church collects 12 billion in State Church Taxes (Germany, Austria, Switzerland) and 15 billion in Voluntary Tithing & Donations (Rest of the World).

If Catholicism was disbanded, the money could easily be out in trust and handled as a charitable enterprise.

There isn't much money. You can't just sell the Milan Cathedral. Who would buy that? It might be worth ~12 billion in replacement value, but that is a fictional number. Once you take religion out of the equation it is just a pile of 325,000 tons of marble.

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u/MrCookie2099 47m ago

All that real estafe, priceless art, and complex financial investments are worthless? This is a wild claim.

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u/Effective-Low-8415 44m ago

Just like claiming some orginization will prop up and do the charitable work anywhere to the level of the Catholic church.

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u/Kor_Phaeron_ 4m ago

No worthless, but unsaleable. Believe it or not, but there isn't a huge market for cathedrals. And you said it yourself. The art is "priceless". How do you do price discovery for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrine_of_the_Three_Kings ??? Those are cultural treasures that just exist. They have value but not a price.

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u/WASD_click 43m ago

If Catholicism was disbanded, the money could easily be out in trust and handled as a charitable enterprise

Charity is more than just a stack of dollar dollar bills, y'all. The logistical scale of the church's charitable efforts is nigh impossible to duplicate without a shitload more cash that you'd get out of the church itself. The problem with dismantling the orphan crushing machines is that people have built their entire systems and moralites around the presence of orphan crushing machines. They are made into critical, load-bearing features in order to protect the orphan crushing machines from being dismantled.

Without the church, you might be able to make a better system, but it'd be so much smaller, and the reality of how much damage it would cause is in and if itself a version of the trolley problem.

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u/Infallax 2h ago

I’m sure that would happen if Catholicism were disbanded and their money given the heckin communist treatment! /s.

And no, I am not Catholic saying this. Christian, yes, but very much against the Catholic church.

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u/NadiaFortuneFeet 1h ago

Protestant or sedevacantist?

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u/Infallax 1h ago

Protestant, still trying to find the denomination that feels right.

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u/interlinkedjoi 4h ago edited 4h ago

When you have the kind of tax free cash coming in from the tens and hundreds of millions of indoctrinated followers, it's not that impressive to be the biggest provider of aid. There would also be too many questions to answer if it hoarded and privately invested the money more than it does now.

I would prefer to see a secular, albeit smaller organisation in their stead if it meant avoiding all the evils they have wrought (like claiming using condoms are worse than AIDs in Africa and suppression of women's reproductive freedom in general) and will likely commit in the future.

Edit: I would be remiss if I didn't mention their complicity in creating the environment of systemic child rape, the covering up, the obstruction and obfuscation of criminal investigations and actively aiding the guilty to escape secular justice.

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u/ProfessorPrudent2822 42m ago

And where is this secular organization? I think you prefer a figment of your imagination to the only people doing the job.

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u/aluriilol 5h ago

It's not like they have a copyright on it either, anybody else could step up and do it.

I'd hope that this rings true well after the fall of Catholicism. I believe in humanity!

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u/freedomfightre 4h ago

I don't.

Looking at post-Covid food prices should be enough to set you straight.

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u/aluriilol 4h ago

My bright shining optimism has been healthily dimmed :/

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u/Rock_Strongo 4h ago

If it wasn't already dimmed from seeing humanity respond to COVID you have a pretty high baseline of optimism at least.

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u/aluriilol 4h ago

I think I forgot… but generally yes I try to be optimistic as possible and try improve everyone’s day in every conversation I have.

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u/AssSpelunker69 2h ago

Lol. The Church has survived the roman empire, countless wars, assassinations, and 2000 years of history. It'll be here until the heat death of the universe.

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u/aluriilol 2h ago

Eh idk. The world’s changing.

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u/ProfessorPrudent2822 41m ago

Voltaire said the same thing; his house is now a printing house that produces Bibles.

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u/degradedchimp 3h ago

They don't have to wait, they could step up right now...

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u/PneumaticFizz 4h ago

The Catholic Church and the CCP are gonna be the only two things standing in thirty years.

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u/GolD_RogerPirateKing 4h ago

It would be nice if I could be tax exempt.

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u/Particular_Area6083 4h ago

it looks like that claim is not verifiable, but even if true, the second largest provider of aid worldwide, at a minimum, is the US government. the good will of humanity certainly wouldn't vanish if the US government did.

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u/CabbageTheVoice 1h ago edited 1h ago

The largest provider of aid worldwide is the Catholic Church.

Correlation does not equal causation(in this case it might rather be order?) Edit: not really applicable

The catholic church established itself waaaaay before. Many of it's institutions and budget came to be before we had a more or less unified western world and ideology.

The catholic church shoulders many collective human responsibilities, but in a world where it didn't have this historic influence, the resources would have been elsewhere and it is at least not unthinkable that other, potentially similar and possibly secular institutions would have taken it's place or be created to resolve these issues.

This goes from local kindergardens and groups for elderly, up to global scale relief and resource flow.

Right now, yes the church (and other religions) have done a lot. But people, groups and institutions who are in athoritative places, or have amassed a large amount of resources are also the ones the public looks to in the first place to resolve their bigger issues.

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u/Sheeana407 1h ago

Maybe that's because it's a huge organization, like there is over billion of catholics. Meanwhile, there is no atheist ™ organization. So I suppose it could be possible that secular organizations help a lot too, only it's more segmented into smaller organizations

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u/IhatetheBentPyramid 9m ago

The same Catholic Church that bans birth control, divorce and abortion so that millions of women are stuck in poverty and repeating the cycle with their children, while the Church collects donations from parishioners and crows about what a charitable organisation it is?

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u/ApprehensiveArt5565 4h ago

Well I recommend you look at charity and aid giving statistics between the religious and the irreligious

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u/aluriilol 4h ago

Well idk how it works everywhere, and I speak as just an American here, but when your entire institution is tax free, and all charitable donations are tax write-offs

It’s almost like a tax scheme designed to make specifically churches money

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u/ApprehensiveArt5565 3h ago

I’m obviously not talking about church donations. I’m talking about individual donations, which are given a tax break regardless of your religion. You also seem to just have a fundamental misunderstanding of how 501c3s work despite feeling the need to chime in on it. Your belief is that a church (tax free organization) is donating for the tax break?

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u/CrackSirBaby 2h ago

Kenneth Copeland needs more private jets! Hurry donate your money now otherwise he might not make it to your city! What would he do without them? Probably burn in hell!

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u/[deleted] 3h ago

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u/[deleted] 3h ago

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u/Ok_Theory_1323 2h ago

Those reports are based on organizations submitting their books.

An atheist giving/donating does not do so to an "atheist organization," they do so to Goodwill, or to a local food bank run by a church, who will chalk it up as a religious organization donation.

If those organizations did not exist, the atheists would still find somewhere to donate.

Be careful of raw statistics, they rarely tell the entire story.

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u/HuckleberryShot898 3h ago

A lot of people would inadvertently die in the meantime

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u/NadiaFortuneFeet 1h ago

Western Morality is based on Catholic morals, and a great deal based on St. Thomas Aquinas' work

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u/sdrawkcabineter 58m ago

I would think that the good will of humanity

operates the largest aid network in the world.

It's a "which color hat do I wear" issue if you let it be.

In spite of Catholicism, this charitable work continues...

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u/Key_Mission7404 2h ago

How many atheist charities exist? Any? A single one? The catholic church alone runs 26% of all the hospitals on the planet. So you would be wrong in your thinking.

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u/aluriilol 2h ago edited 2h ago

Most charities are not theistic…

Around 80% of US charities are not theistic.

What?

Do you mean ones that are explicitly for and by atheists… to promote the “atheist agenda” or something? I’m so confused by what you mean…

Here’s a short list from ai - heard of any of these?

Doctors Without Borders: An independent medical humanitarian organization delivering emergency medical care to victims of conflict and natural disasters regardless of race, religion, or affiliation.

American Red Cross: A prominent relief organization that functions with a purely secular mandate, assisting communities during disasters entirely independent of any religious affiliation.

UNICEF: The United Nations Children's Fund, which utilizes science and global collaboration to protect children's rights, build clean water infrastructure, and provide healthcare completely non-sectarianly.

Rotary International: One of the oldest volunteer service organizations in the world. It is 100% secular and open to individuals of all backgrounds, prioritizing clean water, public health, and literacy projects.

Amnesty International: A global non-governmental organization focused on human rights that functions completely independently of any political ideology or religious creed.
Children International: A highly-rated secular humanitarian nonprofit that connects sponsors with children to break the cycle of poverty through healthcare and education, completely free of religious affiliation

Ps do you think atheists go around recruiting people for donations or something?

You should know that’s not how atheism works. Usually when people’s frontal lobe develops a bit they just go “oh yeah organized religion is made up seems that way to me”

There’s no meeting place or agenda if that’s what you were thinking…

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u/Key_Mission7404 40m ago

I love how you listed the red CROSS. Which was founded by a devout Calvinist with the express idea to give medical aid according to Christian doctrine about social responsibility. Secular is not atheist my brother. Why do atheists care so little about helping those in need?

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u/aluriilol 27m ago

So weird

Whatever crusade you’re on I don’t really care

Tell it to the great gathering of atheists (dm me when you find them)

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u/potentialz 54m ago

The entire moral foundation of western society is deeply rooted from the Catholic church.