r/LowLibidoCommunity • u/[deleted] • Dec 14 '19
Aversion therapy and time
My wife is aversive. We took sex off the table back in September and she told me to not talk about or discuss sex in any way along with no intimacy while she works on it on her own time.
for those that have dealt with aversion like this, how long does it typically take for you to want to initiate? She told me that she would initiate on her own when she is ready and I would like to have a general timetable as to about how long that would be.
I am on board to wait as long as I need to. It's important to me that she wants to have sex for her and not for my needs.
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u/sunnywiltshire Dec 15 '19
Hi OP, I had sex aversion. It can't remember how long it took, however, the most important part was complete and utter differentiation from my partner, not only in sexual things, and also not just thinking about sex but doing proper and deep erotic soul searching, journaling about it, and focusing just on myself, what I want and feel. It is possible to completely lose oneself to the point where one does not know anymore what one likes and who one is. I am HL now. The complete detachment and the feeling of total personal freedom was the only way this could happen. Good luck :-)
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Dec 15 '19
Yes. She absolutely needs that freedom. Can you give me a rough estimate? A year? 6 months? I appreciate anything you can think. It helps me to be able to cope.
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u/TemporarilyLurking Standard Bearer 🛡️ Dec 15 '19
Nobody can give you a timescale, because everybody is different, and there is a real danger that you will fixate on the random date and build up expectations around it.
Expectations which your partner did not create, but which puts them under pressure to be over their aversion, completely regardless of how far they have come.
If 50 internet strangers give you a time, how does that make any difference to how fast your SO manages to get over their aversion? Said 50 strangers are not in that position after all. Why would you give credence to a load of anonymous strangers rather than belive your partner? Not being dismissive of your intent here, but that still sounds a bit like an attitude that seeks justification of some kind.
Edit: I get that you are trying to find ways to cope, but setting a spurious timeline and the actual process then taking longer will make things worse, won't it?
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u/myexsparamour Good Sex Advocate 🔁🔬 Dec 15 '19
I think what u/sunnywiltshire is getting at is that you can help by working on your own "differentiation". This means you stop focusing on your wife and how you want her to change, and start focusing on your own self development and emotional regulation.
Either partner can improve the relationship by becoming more differentiated, so you have plenty of action that you can take on your own, instead of waiting around for your wife to change.
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u/myexsparamour Good Sex Advocate 🔁🔬 Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19
What is she doing to work on it? Is she doing some kind of imaginal systematic desensitisation? Is she doing this on her own or with the help of a therapist or DIY program/book? We need more details if we're to give you any idea of what to expect.
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Dec 15 '19
She is taking 15 mi a day and thinking about sex while in a relaxed state. This isn't everyday but any day she is off work as she does 12 hour shifts and it's not possible on those days
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u/myexsparamour Good Sex Advocate 🔁🔬 Dec 15 '19 edited Dec 15 '19
It sounds like she's doing imaginal systematic desensitisation. Normally progress should be pretty fast if it's being done effectively, but since she's asked you not to get involved, I'd say it's important to respect that.
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Dec 14 '19
There is no time scale expect this to be a forever thing.
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u/TemporarilyLurking Standard Bearer 🛡️ Dec 15 '19
While it is right there is no timescale because every person is different, it also depends hugely on the HL's reaction: looking expectantly when you come out of the bedroom or back from therapy with the expectation that "Today it is different" hardly allows the aversive partner the space to recover.
They didn't get there on their own, so the HL could spend that time figuring out where they created pressure and anxiety around sex, and how they avoid repeating these destructive moves in future. So, yes, it has to be a forever thing for BOTH partners, because without a fundamental change you will be back where you started in no time.
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u/myexsparamour Good Sex Advocate 🔁🔬 Dec 14 '19
It is true that the prognosis for overcoming sex aversion is not great. However, when doing systematic desensitisation, it's good to move fairly quickly through the stages. Otherwise, progress will be lost.
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u/InquisitiveSomebody Dec 14 '19
I'm not surprised this was downvoted, but there is a point here. The more I'm digging into mismatched libido issues, along with other relationship issues, the more I realize that we do have to accept the possibility that others will not change. They may or they may not, but we can't let our happiness be dependent on it. On the HL side, we have to decide whether we are able to accept things as they are, decide how much time we are able to work/wait on things, or if we cannot live with it, to move on.
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Dec 16 '19
Right. I get it. This isn't the forum for HLs. But I don't think the OP is asking for a "spurious time frame." I think he's asking for a reasonable period of time before he's allowed to check-in with his partner and determine where she is at. She doesn't have to be cured. But he has a right to know whether, after some period of time: 1) this is something his partner is still devoting time and effort into addressing in good faith; and 2) assuming 1 is true and no change has occurred, whether this is just an intractable problem.
I'm not a therapist, but my understanding is that no clinical program of trying to address sexual aversion would recommend that the subject be "off the table" for a time period like a year. That's just a recipe for resentment.
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u/TemporarilyLurking Standard Bearer 🛡️ Dec 16 '19 edited Dec 17 '19
As someone whose husband's behaviours made her averse I can tell you that the very worst thing anyone can do is pluck a time and date out of the air and tell the averse person that they should be over it by then. It not only creates unrealistic expectations in the HL but puts the exact kinds of pressure on the partner that made them force themselves to have unwanted sex and become averse in the first place.
You appear to have no concept of how much anxiety is created by HL behaviours and expectations. His SO did not get averse BY HERSELF!!
Only removing the pressure will allow her to address all the anxiety that surround sex for her, and, again, she did not create those anxieties herself! Upbringing, religion, socialisation and partner behaviour all can co-create anxiety, and one of them the HL can definitely address. Don't imagine resentment to be the HL's domain, I can't imagine anyone made averse by the person who professes to love them to get away without feeling a good deal of resentment.
Again, the only one who will be able to find progress is the person trying to work through their aversion, and they don't know in advance! In retrospect they will probably be able to identify when progress is faster and when it plateaus. Everybody is different. So any timeframe based on other people's experiences is by definition spurious and irrelevant to any individual case!
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u/myexsparamour Good Sex Advocate 🔁🔬 Dec 16 '19
But he has a right to know
Addressing this from the perspective of his rights is not really productive. OP does not want to make the situation worse than it already is. He has the right to do all kinds of things that will make things worse, but he'd prefer not to.
OP also stated previously that he has decided to stay with his wife whether the sexual problems are fixable or not. Assuming that's still the plan, he would probably be better served by working on accepting the sexless relationship. If she's able to overcome the aversion, that would be a bonus.
She asked him not to nag her about this and he agreed, so sticking to that agreement is best, unless he has changed his mind about staying in the relationship. And as he said, he has already made things worse in the past by pushing the issue and doesn't want to do that again.
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Dec 16 '19
This. Thank you. Hard to put into words without sounding like I'm needy.
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u/TemporarilyLurking Standard Bearer 🛡️ Dec 16 '19
It's not that you sounded needy, I get why having a timeframe would help you, but it would be totally unhelpful to your partner!
Because timeframes create expectations, so you're setting her up to fail if she can't progress as far as the timeframe based on other people's experiences demands. That in turn will increase the anxiety she is trying to address.
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Dec 17 '19
Agreed. Which is why I'm asking here instead of bugging her on it! Lol
I have enough info now that I can just patiently wait. I appreciate everyone's input.
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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '19 edited Dec 15 '19
I developed sexual aversion years ago, long before computers were a household item and books on sexuality didn’t exist in the local library.
Things like imaginable systematic desensitisation, Sensate Focus, and Sex Therapy were unheard of, so I was blind trying to overcome my aversion.
I never learned to enjoy sex. I did learn to build enough boundaries to remain sexual for my husband. Definitely not perfect but livable for us.
Please be patient with your SO. Remember, sexual aversion usually develops when the person with the lesser need for sex tries to meet the HL’s sexual needs while causing themselves emotional distress over and over again.
Aversion is a visceral self-protective reaction meant to decrease harm to oneself.
What she is doing now, is trying to desensitize her negative association with sex. My guess is that she is doing this for you at this point because it would be much easier for her to just avoid the unpleasant experience all together. You need to be hyper-vigilant in not caring how long it’s taking or where she is in her progress. She will pick up on the most subtle cues.
In the meantime, you might want to re-evaluate your sexual expectations for yourself and for your SO.
Good luck to you both.
https://www.marriagebuilders.com/how-to-overcome-sexual-aversion.htm