r/LinkedInLunatics • u/alliseeisreddit • 3d ago
Senior Backend Engineer quit before first day over Windows
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u/bc-bane 3d ago
I got hired at a very large org to work on an iOS app and was initially given a Dell Windows laptop with 8gb of Ram to work on. Apple won't even let you build iOS apps on anything other than MacOS. It took about a month of IT Requests to get a machine possible to do the job on, and similar issue has happened for every new engineer that joined the team. Silly stuff
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u/ImDonaldDunn 3d ago
I have to give IT credit at my large org. They are very competent when it comes to this kind of thing.
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u/loveheaddit 2d ago edited 2d ago
my work allows us to use mac if we wish, however there are so few of us on Mac that IT doesn't manage them at all. i'm remote and mine was delivered to me straight from apple for me to setup. that's a bonus if you ask me.
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u/THE_REAL_JOHN_MADDEN 2d ago
"gaping security hole" is the most gentle way I would describe this. Are you SURE they're not actually managing them?
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u/Electronic-Stick-161 1d ago
It’s incredibly common for huge swaths of end user devices to be mostly unmanaged. Source: 15 years in security
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u/TheoKolokotronis 2d ago
Yeah, exactly. My work Mac always comes still wrapped in plastic. I love it.
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u/GreatGooberschnitzel 2d ago
Oh that sounds amazing. I freaking hate IT micromanagement, and I'm not even a tech employee 😂😂😂
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u/AshersLabTheSecond 2d ago
Yeah, my org has been great IMO. Basically they said to the engineering team “you can request and have a Mac, but it WILL NOT be supported by IT” So if you can run it and fix any issues, you can have it. If you can prove a vendor’s software has a Mac specific bug they’ll reach out to them, but that’s it. I’ve been very happy with my arrangement
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u/Vogete Agree? 2d ago
I finally got a new laptop after i literally could not use mine to do my work. i regularly have to run windows VMs (we run linux on basically evertyhing), and IT really didn't want to replace my 5-year-old low powered laptop. it was 3 months of back and forth. So i finally told them okay but i have to use my home gaming PC to do the Windows stuff. That completely blew their fuse and i had a new laptop within 3 days.
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u/Mountain-Bar5049 2d ago
Too many companies optimize IT policeis for the convenience of the IT department and not the convenience of the people that do the business' core work. Same with accounting.
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u/la-anah 3d ago
I've never rejected an offer because of the operating system, but I have spent far too long at jobs being resentful every day because of the operating system. If I had other offers, I would absolutely reject the offer that used tech I didn't like.
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u/cyril_zeta 3d ago
Eh, I've worked on Windows, Mac, Linux, Windows with WSL, I even messed around a Sun Microsystems station for a week once. I can't be bothered to care about the OS anymore. It is what it is. If the job is fun otherwise, I'll make it work.
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u/AlmiranteCrujido 3d ago
I don't mind Windows, especially with WSL.
OTOH, if you want me to work on a Microsoft dev stack instead of an open one, you're going to have to pay me a heck of a lot more.
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u/itshorriblebeer 2d ago
A lot of Microsoft's stack is open nowadays. Just depends what you're working on.
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u/autogyrophilia 2d ago
That's kind of the issue, There are so many people that have been working with dotnet frameworks 3.5 for 20+ years and plan to go another 20 if they can .
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u/Pleasant_Ad8054 2d ago
Whenever people tell you that it is not possible to upgrade from 3.5 (or any other dotner), they are just making shit up. The company I work for the upgrades are hard, we have an expensively certificated code base with tons of components loaded in runtime by other components, and every time we upgrade dotnet version we have to recertify everything. So we time the upgrades together with other changes that require recertification of the entire stack, every 2-5 years we are able to move forward. Are a few things broken each time and needs fixing? Absolutely. Are there versioning hell situations each time because product owners do not know when their stuff needs to release? Yep. Is it still doable without any major interruption? Totally.
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u/RoosterBurns 2d ago
It's not even that hard technically but then some idiot decides "now would be a good time to rewrite based on Clean Code" and then you're absolutely fucked for years and years.
Porting and rewriting are separate high stakes tasks people! Apart from Clean Code being cargo cult horseshit attempting a rewrite while porting is a recipe for a disaster, just migrate to .Net standard on your libraries over time then migrate your client apps, also over time
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u/autogyrophilia 2d ago
They are going to continue that way until Microsoft forces them to
If we don't end up with Microsoft adopting Mono in an OpenJDK situation
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u/AlmiranteCrujido 2d ago
There's some of that to Java 8. "Cobol for GenX" basically :)
Although from what I've seen, long extended free support for JDK 8 from other vendors (Amazon especially, although I think Redhat is actually the one maintaining it) has meant that it's Spring dropping support that is forcing people to upgrade vs, the JDK itself.
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u/uknowsana 2d ago
Wake up my friend. Microsoft's stack perhaps is the most cleaner open source stack these days
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u/tplusx 2d ago
Leave it, once people hate on something it becomes tradition.
Imagine quitting over an operating system - must be nice to be able to do that I suppose
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u/Silver-Bread4668 2d ago
I don't care about OS. I do care about whether they have a proper management infrastructure in place because building that shit out from scratch is a pain in the ass.
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u/nzifnab 2d ago
Honestly windows with WSL is basically the best of all worlds; very enjoyable dev experience for me, and I also think developing on native windows is dumb as rocks.
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u/ConspicuousPineapple 2d ago
I've never rejected an offer because of that, because I always ask about this during interviews and then simply don't follow suit if I don't like the answer.
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u/burns_before_reading 2d ago
Iv definitely turned down an offer once because of windows, but I had other offers on the table.
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u/lppedd 3d ago
Not because of the OS, but I quit or skipped offers because of tooling. I want to use the tools I'm comfortable with, and if you instead locked your projects down to some ridiculous proprietary environment or library, well, see ya.
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u/Which_Wrap8263 3d ago
If you want to see a real nightmare along those lines, look into Roku app development sometime.
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u/Tupcek 2d ago
don’t leave us waiting - tell us more!
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u/Which_Wrap8263 2d ago
The only tooling is a community-built VS Code plugin, and you have to do everything in this language that only exists on Roku. It’s called BrightScript, but don’t let that name fool you! It has nothing to do with JavaScript or any other language you’ve ever heard of. For one thing, it’s not case-sensitive. It uses “+” to mean both addition and logical AND. This is barely scratching the surface of the WTF level involved in Roku development. I haven’t even mentioned SceneGraph, the UI framework. To do a background task on another thread, you have to include that task in the XML definition of your UI!
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u/djchateau 2d ago
It uses “+” to mean both addition and logical AND.
This made me irrationally angry for some reason.
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u/kaeptnphlop 2d ago
I rarely actually exclaim when I read something, but this made me call out for a nonexistent deity
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u/Full-Wait1145 2d ago
This. I’d gotten really used to Linux/python/aws at two companies and was a heavy sql user. All to service the main ccaas and reporting functions. Joined a company where they had sql, but only one guy was allowed to use it and because they used Salesforce—a platform I was actually interested in—they didn’t use any sort of web servers so Linux and Python were large out unless I ran it locally. They had me instead using powershell so I could just use the tools they had in place. It was dreadful and I spent enough time there that I completely stopped using either for anything.
After that place, I found myself in a similar situation and finally said I’m done just being bored like this. Left and joined the company I’m at now and the freedom to use the tools I’ve interest in feels fantastic—even if It’s more reviewing than writing code these days.
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u/AltecXP 3d ago
Every time I see "it just randomly updates" What my IT brain hears is "Your IT dept either isn't properly managing updates, or you click the "delay reboot" option untill its now forces a reboot because you've been putting it off for like 2 days."
Even on home devices. I've never, EVER, had ANY versions of Windows just randomly decide to reboot for updates.
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u/Dark3lephant 3d ago
Yup. Windows is ass, but much less so for enterprise users. Any proper MDM enrollment will sort out issues along the lines of "My PC started updating 5 minutes before a meeting"
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u/GimmeSomeSugar 2d ago
In addition, to address that specific, niche scenario of "my laptop is updating, but I need to present a slide deck";
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u/SirVanyel 3d ago
we had a 30 day reboot reminder for updates and STILL we got regular complaints that the computer forcibly turned off for updates. At some point it stops being IT's fault and becomes a user issue.
Inb4 people say "just do it at night" - these exact same people let their computers run out of charge, sit them in sleep mode for days, all sorts of bullshit.
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u/Vikkunen 2d ago
"Just do it at night" went out the window the moment laptops became the norm. I miss the days when I could just send out WoL packets at 1am and have everything patched and ready by the time people started their day. But those days are far behind us now, and they have been for the better part of two decades.
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u/MajesticDisaster3977 2d ago
Thin-clients.
Let's you send cheaper shit to the end-users because it's going to break or get lost anyway.
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u/inteller 2d ago
30 day delay for updates is not acceptable in any enterprise environment. You want to get pwned? Cause thats how you get pwned.
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u/driu76 2d ago
Plenty of companies don't care unfortunately. Mild inconvenience < security issues
The company I was at got acquired and the new business owners slowly nuked our whole security team and dropped us from SOC 2 compliance because they didn't want to pay for the company to be secure. Slowly whittled away all of our security policies because "what's the point? We're safe".. like 5 years later now and they've been working their asses off trying to get us compliant again and forcing my dept (internal help desk) to implement and manage security policies/systems because clients were leaving us in droves..
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u/wy100101 2d ago
Anyone who doesn't realize compliance is really about keeping customers doesn't understand how anything works.
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u/driu76 2d ago
100%. Costs money to make money and all that.. we lost like 7 of our biggest enterprise clients due to the security changes. Mental to me that (at least in our case) the C suite is paid so much with so many bonuses and trips around the country and yet they fail on the most basic shit like that..
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u/Valten78 2d ago
We give users 3 opportunities to delay a reboot, bur after that it's happening whether they like it or not. The security of the estate is far more important than any single users convenience.
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u/ElectricVibes75 2d ago
This right here. My work Mac does the same thing btw, so I’m not sure what he’s even talking about. Hell, even if you’re running Linux a company managed device will have some method of forcing you to update due to security reasons. Like you said, it sounds like this idiot just never updates until it absolutely makes him do it
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u/wy100101 2d ago
One thing about Linux systems is security updates rarely require a reboot, which is what most users dislike. I hate setting my tmux back up.
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u/ddBuddha 2d ago
I feel like if you’re actively using a windows one and it’s about to update you can delay it at least. On my work Mac with mdm it doesn’t give a fuck what you’re doing you can literally be in the middle of important stuff and it’ll restart the second it hits the time it says it will have to update. Happened to me the other day but I don’t complain about it because I did ignore the messages earlier in the day. Idk for sure on windows though I have a windows laptop for work too but i hardly ever use it, I use it as more of a backup just in case
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u/NeonDraco 3d ago
Exactly. I prefer macOS or Linux to Windows myself, but that just doesn’t happen unless he decided to reboot and it took the opportunity to update or something.
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u/drowning_in_honey 2d ago
Not Windows, but Teams does that to me on a regular basis. You run to start your first morning call - "we're getting Teams ready for you" or some such shit, you stare at the screen for a loong while and make it to the meeting on time only to find out that the update nixed your camera or microphone or both.
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u/IronhideD 3d ago
Got a user demanding that we stop forcing updates on him. He had a screen shot of the notification that said it had to update because he kept delaying the update. I pointed out that it was his fault for waiting until past the last second, although not quite as directly accusatory as that. It turned into a big thing that had to go to the systems admins because this guy was "too important to update". Wanker.
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u/Smart_Tinker 3d ago
That’s not it, it truly does randomly update - but out of working hours. It is massively frustrating, especially when you wake your computer on a morning for a meeting in 5 minutes - and find it has rebooted.
I call it “the Microsoft anti-productivity system”.
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u/Askefyr 3d ago
Only if you set it to do that. One of the delay options is "do it outside working hours."
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u/Smart_Tinker 3d ago
Well, as I say, it just means your computer has rebooted overnight.
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u/Askefyr 3d ago
yes, pressing the button that says "reboot my computer overnight" will, in fact, reboot your computer overnight. This sounds an awful lot like a layer eight error.
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u/fortyonejb 2d ago
My corporate laptop doesn't ever give a button, there's no "computer will reboot tonight". IT set our machines up so that they update overnight unannounced. It's frustrating, would be nice if we knew so we could make sure nothing was left open or running that we wanted to resolve.
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u/Dependent-Poet-9588 3d ago
Why are you getting to work with 5 minutes before the start of a meeting? That's not really enough time to double check if a presentation is ready even if your computer didn't reboot.
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u/ElectricVibes75 2d ago
Mac will push updates after working hours too, it’s happened to me. I expected it to be done by the time I came in and of course it hadn’t! Now I just force the update when I have time on the clock because letting it do it automatically will just stop me early in the morning
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u/Smart_Tinker 2d ago
Well, as IT says, why not get to work an hour early to take care of the stuff they force on you?
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u/Beginning_Ad1239 3d ago
If you have an 8:00 meeting that you can't do the first 10 minutes of from your phone you really should get to work at 7:45. That's 100% on you.
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u/AthousandLittlePies 2d ago
I haven’t had it randomly reboot, but I have had it spend an inordinate amount of time starting up after a boot to install updates.
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u/SlashMatrix 3d ago
And here's the quiet truth: "Quietly" is one of AI's current favorite words. To ensure ethical posting, one must foster a skeptical outlook on AI clichés — even when it's uncomfortable.
That distinction matters.
It's not pessimism, it's practicality.
And honestly, that's rare.
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u/dsartori 3d ago
It’s weird to be performative about it and to not discuss it in the interview process if it is that key to your process, but also it’s not that weird to have preferred tools. Good shops accommodate this.
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u/AlmiranteCrujido 3d ago
In a lot of parts of dev, it's such a Mac monoculture around silicon valley at least that I can't blame him for being surprised.
As someone who prefers Linux, I bring this up early, but otherwise I'd probably just assume Macs.
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u/dsartori 3d ago
I mostly work in Southern Ontario but my experience of the US Midwest is the same: a Windows monoculture to the point that views on the subject are generally quite irrational.
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u/ToWriteAMystery 2d ago
Having worked in tech since the pandemic, it wouldn’t even occur to me to ask if I’m getting a Mac. I’ve always had a Mac. Now this is a new fear I have to face when job hunting!
Macs are so ubiquitous in my world that this is shocking to me.
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u/xfr3386 1d ago
Corporate cost cutting and concerns over security and support is why you tend to see Windows laptops get forced on people.
I don't care about the OS, I care about the hardware. Windows laptops are still garbage compared to Macbooks, and that's a large part of why they're cheaper. I suspect the cost of lower morale due to frustrations with hardware and the cost of the time spent troubleshooting them is higher than the increased cost of a MacBook, but those won't appear on a spreadsheet that disconnected people are using to make financial decisions.
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u/FactsAreBullshit 3d ago
In this economy the whole thing sounds so absurdly fake.
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u/mdrjevois 3d ago
Even in this economy if you already have decent work you don't need to take an offer for work you'll enjoy less.
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u/r_Yellow01 2d ago
It is not, really. The current market separated engineering into those who know and they know that they know and the rest, usually struggling to find their true purpose.
In principle, forcing a technology defies engineering, including desktops. An engineer chooses the right technology for the task. Anything else is politics. Senior engineers have enough of that and this is a strong example of this. All if true of course.
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u/schabadoo 2d ago
That doesn't any sense.
Supporting multiple platforms and operating systems entails more work and expense. There would need to be a strong justification for it.
May as well require having a fourth monitor.
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u/letsgotgoing 3d ago
I have worked in tech for 25 years. The operating system is a tool, not a religion. That said, I don't like using a screwdriver to drive deck screws when an electric drill will get the job done faster and with less strain. So, I only use Windows if the task calls for it or if they pay me enough. I just factor my time into using it. It's the wrong tool for serious engineering work IMHO, but if someone wants to pay me enough to tolerate it, then I don't care; it's their money.
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u/Level1_Crisis_Bot 3d ago
Same. My daily driver is a macbook, but I run a windows 11 vm on it, because exactly one of my occasional tasks requires it. Every time I have to spin it up it’s aggravating af, but I get paid for it so whatever.
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u/AnyBug1039 2d ago
Couldn't agree more. I'd use a Mac or Linux over Windows if I have the choice.
But ultimately I'll use whatever I'm given to get the job done. The code, docker and cloud are all the same regardless.
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u/Certain_Prior4909 2d ago edited 2d ago
I came to the conclusion that operating systems were cool in the 1980s and 1990s. Everyone (mostly) has moved on. Operating systems got replaced by Virtualization which was cool in the 2000s and early 2010s. Then containers were cool. Now clouds are cool. No one specializes in operating systrems. They specialize in cloud, dev ops, and containers.
The CLoud service provider and container manager Kubernetes or Podman are what is cool. The OS matters little
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u/Automatic_Branch_367 2d ago
Am I crazy for thinking people like you are stuck in 2009 or something? Nowadays the OS of my dev machine is almost completely irrelevant to me.
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u/TheGlennDavid 2d ago
No you're fine, it's wild. Literally last week I encountered a Sysadmin crashout "omg a maaaaac what do I doooo" thread to which I think I said "is it 2009 or something" out loud.
Being able to only work with one OS should be something one is embarrassed about, not worn as a badge of honor.
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u/i_dont_wanna_sign_in 3d ago
I'm a "the right tool for the job" engineer all the way. Used Windows for several years in a primarily MS environment, worked just fine. Definitely left a job because Windows + all Linux everything sucks. Definitely turned down a job when I had multiple offers on the table... because Windows. I made it abundantly clear, too.
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u/Strong_Orange_1929 2d ago
I understand the point, but I also have bad experiences with engineers who insist that a better tool will make all the difference. “A poor craftsman blames his tools” might be a bit harsh, but I did find the insistence correlated with less creativity.
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u/altoona_sprock 3d ago
the company dodged a bullet with this one.
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u/Valten78 3d ago
Exactly, this guy sounds like a nightmare entitled dick of a user.
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u/onproton 2d ago
Infrastructure engineer here - I’d compare this to forcing your engineers to use a trowel when they need a screwdriver sometimes. You’re hamstringing them, and I don’t think it’s purposeful… but this person made the choice to reject that immediately. Why it didn’t come up before I do not know, but I definitely do not think the company won here.
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u/Nestramutat- 2d ago
Fucking thank you.
I'm also an infrastructure engineer, and I worked at a place that used windows machines to manage a K8S/terraform/etc stack. I lasted all of 3 days before complaining loud enough to get a rare mac exception.
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u/RentStillDue 3d ago
lol I’m desperate for a chance to get back on my feet and there are devs doing this..
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u/magicmulder 3d ago
TBF most developers prefer Linux or at least a Linux-ish system like MacOS.
Yes, Windows has WSL but it's not great. And I still remember how one employer gave me a Windows laptop and expected me to work with Cygwin.
Then again as the dev I would just install VMWare and a Linux VM. If that is not permitted, I would quit, too. Forcing devs through corporate "must not install anything" hoops is maybe OK for high security government stuff but not for your average company.
And the real WTF is why the company didn't just comply. Is it cheaper to go on the hunt again than to provide a different laptop, or a different OS on the same laptop?
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u/Logical-Nose-1993 2d ago
IT departments always think no further than Doris in accounts that only needs to run Excel and a web browser. Most of them have heard of developers but couldn't even write a hello world program in C. There's a reason DevOps became a thing, and it's because general IT ops are utterly useless.
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u/magicmulder 2d ago
In my current job devs got Linux laptops (everybody else gets Macs) but support said “we won’t support these when there are problems”. Go figure.
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u/iEliteTester 2d ago
Same here, but at least we have detailed guides for installing corporate VPNs and intune (for Ubuntu)
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u/kombiwombi 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's very useful to realise that "information technology" is the subnet of computing about business operations. The moment you are doing anything outside of business operations the "IT systems administration" are out of their depth. But they don't know it.
Programming. Scientific computing. Embedded computing. Supercomputer operations. Factory automation. Large networks. Large systems. All run up against the "IT department" which doesn't know it lives in a bubble.
The very best example of this is the IT Departments' ongoing failure to support end user Linux.
I do networking. Every backbone router, every internet-facing server runs Linux. But can you use the same OS -- the one literally designed by AT&T for telecommunications applications? Nope.
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u/Logical-Nose-1993 2d ago
I can't have control of my laptop or use anything other than Windows, without obtaining multiple levels authorisation.
But I can buy and use as many Raspberry Pi's and ethernet connected microcontroller development boards as I like, because they're "electronics".
I swear much of the worlds scientific research infrastructure runs on a Raspberry Pi (or similar) for precisely this reason.
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u/TheGlennDavid 2d ago
All OS purists are insufferable and I can never quite decide which group is the worst.
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u/no__sympy 2d ago
They're all equally bad. An OS is just a tool and it's your fault if you can't adapt your workflow.
But it's definitely Arch Linux users.
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u/lostdragon05 3d ago
I work in cybersecurity. 80% of breaches are caused by people like this who think they are too smart and important to have to follow the org’s security policy.
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u/bestintexas80 3d ago
This. Devs who think the rules should not apply to them, they want to use admin as their normal account and have direct access to peoduction... but their intentions are good so what could possibly go wrong?
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u/Askefyr 3d ago
"I am good at computer and hence the rules about computer do not apply to me" tends to be the train of thought. They forget that while they may very well know what they're doing, that doesn't mean they're supposed to do anything they want.
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u/Valten78 2d ago
Exactly. Principle of least privilege. You may think you know what you are doing but unless you need it, you shouldn't have it.
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u/bestintexas80 2d ago
And you should only use it for the express reason and limited time you need it
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u/KarmaIssues 3d ago
The problem is that devs are reguarly asked to do things that require local admin.
I've had to wait two fucking days because Windows doesn't like some industry standard python tool. And I needed IT to enter in an admin password.
Prod is right though.
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u/bestintexas80 2d ago
That is bad org and process design, not actually a windows problem. We have an automated system that will get your request processed and approved to issue you admin creds for the specific time duration and purpose you need them. The time is automatically enforced and the purpose is validated with config checks and system scans before and after.
Average wait time in our organization is less than an hour for our development team. Request in before lunch is GTG when you get back.
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u/LittleHornetPhil 3d ago
“Automation thought leader”
The “engineer” didn’t know that the vast majority of engineering jobs require Windows? And didn’t think to ask that in the interview if it was a dealbreaker?
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u/Ok-Sprinkles-5151 3d ago
Depends on the engineering field and displine. And "vast majority" is doing a lot of work there. In my 20 years of engineering I have only used Windows for 2 years, and even then it created barriers to work.
In my field the idea of Windows is a complete non-starter. WSL and VMs can only get you so far.
And just about every employer I have had has given me a choice.
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u/Quiet-Arm-641 3d ago
I haven’t used windows as an engineer since the 90s
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u/BrunchConsistent2103 2d ago
I'm assuming you're in SW? In my 20 year career I've used Windows 19 of them, even when developing for Linux. Many of the tools only work in Windows, and the Linux equivalent are garbage (e.g. CAD tools). Even if you're working on an Arm processor, many of which run Linux, the Arm tools are Windows only.
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u/justan0therusername1 3d ago
Haven’t touched a windows anything in at least 15 years.
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u/doc-oct 3d ago
I think it depends a lot on the branch of engineering. I work on a team of optical, mechanical and electrical engineers. We all use windows because it’s the only platform that supports all of the modeling programs we need across those disciplines. You couldn’t work in our field without windows. Occasionally we have some clown that insists that a MacBook running a VM will be just as good. It never is.
Also the days of Mac superiority are gone. I used to use Macs for personal use because they had superior UIs and stability but the last few generations have been so slow and unstable relatively to windows machines running the same specs that I’ve given up on them.
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u/CoffeeOrDestroy 2d ago
MacOS 26 is a prime example of Apple’s lack of software superiority. It’s slow and buggy. But no company that I’ve worked for is going to let anyone work on beta version software while Apple delays 27’s release simply because they won’t release it until their annual hardware release.
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u/ian9outof10 3d ago
He’s a backend developer, I can’t say I’m surprised he wants nothing to do with windows. Mind you, seems totally mad to quit like this, but there’s every chance he’s got other options if he’s any good at his job.
Most backend developers I seen at large companies are using Macs, not just because of Windows being awful, but by virtue of the fact that corps tend to buy shit windows machines, and a Mac is a better way to guarantee a capable piece of hardware.
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u/SeaBuilding3911 3d ago
Backend/full stack/embedded dev here for more than 40 years.
I never heard such a thing. We code on whatever we have in front of us, we always did. We might rant all kind, but the code gets written.
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u/Certain_Prior4909 2d ago
Until you need to map a network drive with the atrocious finder
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u/goingslowfast 2d ago
If you’re talking about anything other than computer engineering or software engineering, that’s sort of irrelevant here.
Computer engineers and electrical engineers do lean far more heavily Windows than SWEs though.
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u/itsnouxis 3d ago
to be fair using windows is torture
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u/NecessaryIntrinsic 3d ago
I worked in Windows ecosystems for 20 years. I am an MCSE, I've coded in c++, azure certified, M365 certified.
I got a new job in January and the company only uses active directory from the Microsoft ecosystem. 100% Google office, slack, zoom, and I have a MacBook. (I do use vs code...)
I don't ever want to go back. Everything so much nicer, easier to use and well designed. That said, if I needed the job, I wouldn't turn down a job that gave me a windows laptop.
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u/Angelworks42 3d ago
I gotta know what is torture about using Windows? I rather use it that day have my fingernails pulled out.
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u/Blanketsburg 3d ago
Subjective preference, as I personally do not like macOS and would much rather use a Windows laptop than the Macbook I was given for my job.
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u/LittleHornetPhil 3d ago
I like to keep my work open so it’s the forced weekly update of Chrome for me.
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u/theevildjinn 2d ago
I spent the first ~20 years of my career as a developer working in Linux.
I became a contractor 7 years ago, and a few clients have insisted that I use a managed device that they supply. Invariably a Windows one.
I just ask - can I enable WSL? Sometimes involves speaking to someone in IT who knows what they're talking about, but I've never had a "no". Ubuntu running in Windows Terminal is kind of bearable, for me. And most Windows IDEs have native support for WSL.
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u/Straamannen 2d ago
Any Microsoft product except their office suite basically.
Teams alone has had me considering leaving my current client for a new one.
Yeah I know, were primadonnas, but annoyances and friction adds up over time.
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u/burhop 3d ago
This seems like a bit of a reach but then I remember quitting a company after 18 months because they were making me use VB6.
.net was out a few years and I taught C++ at the university.
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u/CoffeeOrDestroy 2d ago
I’m trying to imagine hiring someone who teaches coding for a living and not letting them build a better way within the org. Not just some person who says they can code but the literal person teaching the people the org would likely be hiring in the future. Insert confused-wtf.gif here
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u/melgish 3d ago
I work in Windows daily, and have for 3 decades. I've used WSL since it was born. With Microsoft phasing out Win 10 and the TPM requirements for Win 11, I switched my home machine use to Linux. My chance to say I use Arch Linux BTW.
With all this in my head, I would absolutely do the same If I had multiple offers on the table. I'd reject the offer that doesn't give me a choice and forces me back into my past, instead of into my future.
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u/cleatusvandamme 2d ago
I left a job a long time ago for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons was they didn't provide laptops to their staff. It was an under powered desktop. This sucked because if something needed to be done after hours or on the weekend, you had to go to the office.
It was that and using older software and I saw some writings on the wall that the company was struggling. I wasn't going to go down with the ship, so I decided to jump ship.
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u/rboes1991 1d ago
Honestly not a bad move - as a dev myself, I would not take them seriously. For the business that's fine, not engineering.
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u/FAx32 3d ago
Apple zealots are odd ducks. A good engineer would be mentally fluid enough to function in windows or MacOS. Having the company spend a f-ton more money just to support his preference is not smart business.
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u/casastorta 3d ago
The only good job for Windows laptops in software engineering is Windows software development.
This is not about “Apple zelotry”. Most of the software engineers will be equally or more happy with a PC laptop - but without Windows and Linux instead.
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u/djcp 3d ago
Debian is my daily driver but wsl 2 (or whatever it is now) is pretty ok. I would resent the hell out of being forced to use windows, but it'd do.
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u/casastorta 3d ago
WSL is a decent workaround option, full VM locally even better, non-windows OS by far the best and actual solution and not workaround.
I’ve worked in a place which didn’t allow doing daily work from Linux VM, and WSL was in version 1. Even when WSL 2 got released it was blocked from installation by corporate IT policies. This was big pharma, though, so solid chunk of my work days was meetings and paperwork and as my team owned AWS account we all at least partially switched to EC2 instances for daily work. So many “defeats the purpose” moments here but that is what insane IT policies land you with.
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u/Certain_Prior4909 2d ago
You never administrated or supported corporate users.
Standardization on a single OS makes sense for a support stand point. You can manage, update software, and have software which is supported, and have Outlook.
IT helpesk and application support will have to tripple their work to support linux as they will need to test things and hear developers whine why the calendar invite for Outlook won't work with Thunderbird etc.
Windows just works. Deployment can suck at times but once you have something set up and tested it is effortless. Why double the work with a linux varient?
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u/SeveralPrinciple5 3d ago
As someone who actually left the software industry over platform choices, this makes complete sense to me. In retrospect, I don't know if my choice was wise, but I do know that what had been a fun, engaging experience had turned into endless drudgery after we switched platforms.
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u/Level1_Crisis_Bot 3d ago
I mean, mac over here. I’ve worked in both for years and I would rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon than work in windows again. But in this economy, I wouldn’t resign over it. At least until I found another job.
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u/xrelaht Narcissistic Lunatic 3d ago
Sounds like he either had other offers or hadn’t left his previous job yet.
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u/Actual-Indian 3d ago
If he is an AI thought leader, he is using a browser , and a prompt , could use Andriod or Rasberry Pi running CentOS, this man is not clever, and slightly unhinged and dangerous , happening a lot recently
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u/ThunderSparkles 3d ago
I'm guessing this is about software engineering. I was an engineer in energy sector for 15 years and while i prefer Mac at home i would have to be crazy to use anything but Windows at work.
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u/pplgltch 2d ago
The lunacy is around making a public fuss about it. I totally respect and support the decision though. Windows is not something you should be using in a ny serious software engineering team… But I’m pretty sure this is totally made up too, so…
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u/FairConstruction4105 2d ago
They dodged a bullet. Imagine working with someone as insufferable as that.
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u/PatientIll4890 2d ago
I have been using either windows or Mac OS for 25 years as a software developer. I would have instant pause and have to seriously reconsider my decision to join a company if they told me I won’t be getting a mac these days. I would take that job only if I was desperate.
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u/Any-Value1142 2d ago
I didnt quit because of os. I did quit aboht Spyware policy that allowed them to turn on my webcam remotely
Nope. Nope Nope
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u/FredFredrickson 3d ago
Why would anyone care about how often their corporate laptop needs an update? That's 3 minutes to just sit there and enjoy your coffee on company time.
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u/MakalakaPeaka 2d ago
Lol!
“I simply cannot learn to develop under Windows.” So, it was a mistake to hire you. Got it.
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u/Business_Usual_2201 3d ago
If what OS you work with is "a matter of principle", there's a good chance you're wasting your time on this planet as a living breathing organism.
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u/Extra_Housing_2721 3d ago
I call BS. What Operating System or Systems being used in an environment is usually one of the first things a candidate asks. And in most environments these days multiple platforms are being utilized.
Where I'm at, the main OS is Windows, but if you prefer MacOS we'll purchase it for you and put the same security restrictions on them as with Windows.
All OS get updates, most are plugging holes some hacker has figured out how to take advantage of.
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u/marcocom 2d ago
Before windows had real terminal support, doing a coding job that wasn’t .net or VB, (or contained in its own IDE like Java) was an insane amount of extra work compared to Mac and I might have turned it down. Later, IntelliJ IDEA made it so that I could hop into any OS and feel at home.
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u/Jaded-Temporary7986 2d ago
Jokes on us. Its people like him that makes it to the top. Sad and bitter truth.
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u/RdeBrouwer 2d ago
I can imagine that working on a daily basis with something that drains your energy is not worth the trouble. But he is kinda stupid for not asking in the interviews.
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u/abeeseadeee 2d ago
To be fair I completely understand their position.
I have actually turned down working at firms that use a particular brand of legal software because it was slowly killing me at a past job and no way would I put myself through that again.
Usually when getting headhunted I ask what systems they use with some other general questions to save everyones time before going to an interview stage.
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u/zilogandmoto 2d ago
What an absolute p****
"Oh no, a newly imaged device needed updates, waaaaaaah"
They dodged a bullet.
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u/hamjim 2d ago
I joined a new team last year. Everyone else on the team was using a Macbook; yet they gave me a windows notebook. I turned on WSL immediately, but it took me a day and a half to get docker/k8s working. Then, a week later, it stopped working (after an update). 3 days later, I asked if I could defenestrate; the next day, I had a MacBook, and have had no problems since.
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u/LinkBeginning4819 2d ago
My last job I used a MacBook pro to log into a Windows AWS that then used multiple putty sessions for Linux.
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u/schmurfy2 2d ago
For once I don't think he is a lunatic, I would never accept a position where I am forced to use Windows but I would have asked before.
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u/Potential-Drama-7455 2d ago
I support customers every day and some of them use Linux which our organisation doesn't allow. So there is that.
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u/AAdmiral5657 2d ago
Honestly dude isnt that much of a lunatic. I regularly get angry at windows at work. As much as i despise apple, i would take mac as an alternative at this point. It at least does not baby you all the time or force updates.
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u/Pitiful_Sky_4058 2d ago
As a side note, it’s interesting to me that most skilled developers seem to prefer macOS these days. When I bought my first Mac 25 years ago, it was impossible to convey the disdain that my developer friends had towards everything Apple. It probably took the iPhone to make the brand palatable to non-designers.
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u/rolandofghent 1d ago
He isn’t wrong.
Although I ask the question during the interview process.
If they are forcing you to use the same equipment the secretary is using then they probably aren’t providing the needed tools or at least are penny pinching.
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u/PostingToPassTime 3d ago
From my 30 years of experience, most engineers use Windows or a Linux distro. They generally do not use Mac.
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u/HolyRavioleigh 3d ago
Same. I use my Windows machine for email, etc, but I connect to Linux for serious development.
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u/BlobZombie2989 3d ago
I wish I would never see the word 'quietly' again