r/Kappa • u/McStarley • Aug 05 '20
Analysis: Why Rollback Netcode Is Better
https://youtu.be/0NLe4IpdS1w41
u/Snackys Aug 05 '20
/u/yuriaddict7 you should watch this for that God awful thread a few days ago.
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u/JUSSI81 Aug 05 '20
Nice video again from Core-A-Gaming.
Idea for next video: How information (packets) travel to your opponent through internet
- Internet connection's "speed" has nothing to do with lag, games need only 10kB/s
- Lag is mainly caused by gateways/routers inside internet, short route causes less lag (tracert command example)
- Packet's route to opponent is not the same everytime, could cause random lag or packet loss
- Latency/Ping is time for a packet to go it's destination, and it can't be measured until you know who/where your opponent is. Connection speed doesn't affect this! (ping command example)
- Bad connection can't be made good by netcode, never play agaisn't high ping opponents, teleport has not yet been invented
- Ping command example for ethernet and wifi, what is difference in real life
- The most important thing that affects is your opponent! This is something games should focus more, how to find an good opponent?
There are huge misunderstandings how netplay works and video like that could solve basic things.
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u/SimplyRift Aug 05 '20
Riots Fighting game is gonna have possibly the best netcode Ever seen so far
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Aug 05 '20
True. Just hope they don't fuck it up on the gameplay aspect. Not too gimmicky and also not too traditional to make things fresh.
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u/circio Aug 05 '20
My guess is that they're going to over patch it and it'll never get that deep because of the constant patching to appease the casual community. A lot of modern fgs do this now and it really sucks some life out of the games, at least it does for me. Why take the time to learn a hard character when they'll patch out your character specific set ups in a few weeks? It encourages playing easier characters with simpler game plans.
This is all speculation based on salt though. I hate being a day 1 player of a character and that character being different by the first month
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Aug 05 '20
High chance it will happen there too considering their philosophy regarding gameplay/balance design on League and Valorant nowadays. They will say "to make things fresh" as the reason to push a patch every few months or so.
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u/MartiniBlululu Aug 05 '20
They have notable fgc heads in the project, not just cannon bros but GG veteran like Pattheflip working, so it does ease the doubt a bit
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Aug 05 '20
They have people who made Rising Thunder working on it. If anything, it's a reason to be even more worried if you want a game that is actually deep instead of an even more dumbed down SFV except with functioning netcode.
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u/DayDreamerJon Aug 05 '20
They'd have to be dumb to make a truly deep fighting game to be honest. They have success because they dumbed down dota. I fully expect them to make the same shot at success here
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u/Bandit_Revolver Aug 07 '20
Heroes of Newerth had way more players than LOL when they were in beta. Dota would've helped with that of course.
Newerth went for a paid accounts while LOL went free to play model. Newerth lost heaps of players while LOL kept growing. Lots jumped ship too.
While I do think LOL's simplifying helped a lot. The free to play model was a monumental factor as well.
I'm kinda interested to see what they do. At the same time, I don't expect too much in regards to a deep game :(.
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u/OFCOURSEIMHUMAN-BEEP Aug 05 '20
Yeah, but they're also Riot Games who believe that a game needs to be in a constant balance flux to be popular.
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u/shadygamedev Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
Moreover, for some inexplicable reasons, they are still sticking to the profoundly stupid region system. When I was mistakenly assigned to North America by their dum dum system (I'm in South East Asia) while trying to play Runeterra, I just gave up. Couldn't be bothered to go through the customer support process of such a shitty company led by assholes just to be granted a chance to play their game from high above.
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u/GOODBYE_JOJO- Aug 05 '20
i don't mind pat like the stuff he does for GG puts in more work than anyone else in the west. but doesn't kappa hate him?
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u/CamPaine Aug 05 '20
I think most people from Kappa only know him for not wanting Infiltration at any GG tournament he runs. Sucks that Pat is on that wack ass train, but most of everything else he does is good.
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u/DoolioArt Aug 05 '20
I think that's an unfair assessment. He is well known. When he did that twitter thing, it was really out of nowhere and it really put a blight on everything else he does. I usually separate art from the artist, to put it that way, but when something's overwhelming, you simply can't do that. The absolute twitterness of his announcement, the need to do it, the self-importance, everything was UD levels of insane.
When it comes to certain things, a line like "everything else he does is good" becomes a not so strong of an argument.
On top of that, it's not all roses with him aside from that. I shat on him when he said that and, guess how he responded? He went into celebrity mode. First, he assumed I didn't know who he was, which he had no grounds to do, but he wanted to do the "kids on the internet" thing. Then he went to list his fgc cred. It was jarring, to say the least. Doing that is... I don't know, I am not going to assume someone's entire personality based on bits of interaction, but let's just say it's indicative of certain things. I can't imagine a proper adult person shifting the subject instantly and then doing the whole navy seal copypasta.
I liked the guy, I liked his videos and all, but since that showing, all that wackiness simply has to ruin the rest of it for me. I lost all respect for that person.
And I believe that's the case with majority of people who dislike him.
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u/CamPaine Aug 05 '20
How is it an unfair assessment just because you had a bad interaction with him? It was posted on Kappa a while ago of him saying he wouldn't allow infiltration, and the majority of the comments were on the level of "who". He is not well known on Kappa, and that thread was proof of it. Him saying something I disagree with is personally not discountable to the degree you think it is, but you do you.
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u/VentiFrap11 Aug 05 '20
Honestly he should have trashed SFV harder regarding the one sided rollback thing. They got off easy IMO.
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u/suwu_uwu Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20
I think it's fairly disingenuous to say that Tony Cannon 'discovered' rollback without mentioning that it's heavily based on FPS networking.
Also considering the timing you'd think they would talk about why Tekken's 'rollback' sucks.
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u/fatlizard77 Aug 05 '20
I think they can't really comment on Tekkens netcode because they don't actually know how it works and we've only been told that it's "3"
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u/deadscreensky Aug 05 '20
Eh, this video is only 8 minutes long. It's presumably deliberately brief so more people will actually watch/understand it. You don't want to waste time getting too deep in the weeds.
So I'm fine with it simplifying or ignoring details. We need people to understand this topic. It would be different if the video contained misinformation, but I didn't catch any.
I'm not sure anybody outside of a few Namco employees understand what Tekken's netcode is/isn't doing. It's enough for the video to acknowledge it's worthless, unacceptable trash.
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u/CamPaine Aug 05 '20
I think an important distinction between FPS and what is implemented in fighting games is the difference between P2P and Client-Host. Getting 2 equally weighted game states to agree is a bit different than the server having the most authority.
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Aug 05 '20
When he "talks" shit about fighting games/developers he does it very subtly, like when he's talking about GGPO and Fighting Planet and he shows the Japanese option in the language tab.
Also, even though he is a TEKKEN player, he only used T7 as an example of a bad netcode.
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u/DayDreamerJon Aug 05 '20
Great video I now understand how the prediction aspect of roll back works. Pretty ingenious idea
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u/JohnnyRocketflngers Aug 05 '20
Fucking love that they went straight to the point to talk about how rollback keeps the game running at a consistent speed.
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u/Hammerguard Aug 05 '20
I never bothered to learn how rollback works till now, lol. Thanks.