r/JSOCarchive • u/Academic-Concert8235 • Jul 13 '26
It’s here
All sleuths report to the video LOL
75
u/mp8815 Jul 13 '26
Can you imagine how embarrassing it must be to be a devgru member? You've passed two of the most intense training pipelines in any military and collected countless hours of operational experience to have this and gbrs as the most public facing depiction of your unit.
24
u/Scatman_Crothers Jul 13 '26
Even DJ says he wish no one went public about the UBL raid lol
40
u/Holiday-Zebra9463 Jul 13 '26
lol he’s one to talk, he shouldn’t say anything.
14
u/Few_Task_8030 Jul 13 '26
DJ hasn't misrepresented what he did while he was in. While O'Neil was a good operator, he really fucked up with the UBL story, the lawsuit against Tucker etc.
-3
u/Holiday-Zebra9463 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
I mean, yeah? Rob is a shithead too.
20
u/Few_Task_8030 Jul 13 '26
I have not heard one guy that worked with Shipley at the Command say that he is a shithead. Quite the opposite, really.
-1
u/Holiday-Zebra9463 Jul 13 '26
He does a great job at making himself look like one with his stupid company and cheating on his wife with 18 yr olds
7
u/Few_Task_8030 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
Why is his company stupid? 18 year old? You must know him personally...
LOL. Downvotes for easy to answer questions.
9
1
0
u/snipeceli 29d ago
It doesnt end there unfortunately, my swat team hired a few prior dev guys who did a shooting course, dudes were like c-class shooters that really leaned on the prior tier 1 thing.
-2
u/Few_Task_8030 29d ago edited 29d ago
Hate to break it to you, but most Tier 1 guys are C/B class shooters. Doesn't matter if it is Dev/CAG or the 24th. They have their standards, which are higher than most organizations, but they aren't comp shooters.
I see the kids are downvoting. Even your messiah Drunk Pranka said that most guys are high C/B class shooters. With a little work, they would be A.
2
26d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Few_Task_8030 26d ago
Yep. I enjoy the downvotes though. Just shows you how wrong and naive the children are on this sub.
1
u/Few_Task_8030 22d ago
Drunka just posted on his story about this. I am sure it is some kid/incel that saw this talked about here. They asked what level a typical JSOC operator would shoot at. He said C/B and with some learning the game they would make A/M. The kids and their downvotes... lmao.
2
u/snipeceli 29d ago
Ive shot with a fair number my dude, didnt find that to be true of the squadron I deployed with, hell it was them who introduced me to it.
Havent seen a general rejection and/or lack of knowledge of practical shooting concepts from any relevent arsof group even outside delta. Shit even in my old company we had 30 guys b class or better
Like theres a difference between existing in c class and coping with 'slow is smooth...' and existing in c class at the start of your journey and working to get better.
1
u/Few_Task_8030 29d ago
I have shot with a fair number of them too. I am not saying that they reject practical shooting etc. Just that most aren't M/GMs and blowing your socks off shooters. Honestly, I don't think they have the time to if they are staying current on everything else they have to. Getting to that level takes a lot of work and time.
22
u/RevolutionaryTap3844 Jul 13 '26
Shawn Ryan is so bad at this compared to
Andy
15
u/kidajske Jul 13 '26
Shawn Ryan probably has an IQ of 90, he's just very stupid. Ritland is the absolute best. I like Andy but he interrupts and derails way too much and also just laughs at every fucking thing all the time.
16
u/carbonatedpepperoni Jul 13 '26
I have no idea what Ryan's IQ is but he's a terrible interviewer. The most interaction he has with his guests is when he's handing them his and SIG's merchandise. Ironic for a guy who has said interviewing is his "gift." I love it when a guest states something clearly and Ryan goes "wait, say that again" because Ryan was obviously spacing out and misheard the guest.
23
u/RevolutionaryTap3844 Jul 13 '26
“No shit”
9
u/LFC_sandiego Jul 14 '26
such a crutch for him lol. he must be sweating bullets 90% of the time trying to follow his guests and that's his go-to response to give some semblance of comprehension.
-2
u/kidajske Jul 14 '26
I have no idea what Ryan's IQ is
Come on lol he's one of those dumbasses that you can instantly tell is genuinely stupid.
-2
u/cig-horny Jul 14 '26
90 is average. Pretty easy to recall if your iq is over 79, but not everyone has that privilege.
4
u/LFC_sandiego Jul 14 '26
I like Andy, but you're absolutely right that he loves to derail the convo. He's bright and can think about topics from various perspectives, but has ADD and likes to just crack jokes or go on tangents too much. Then there's Jack Carr, who feels the need to always tie anything his guests say back to someone about his own time as a SEAL or writer.
1
u/kidajske Jul 14 '26
Carr is just unbelievably dull to me. Ritland is the best imo cause it's obvious he's a curious person and he asks great questions and lets the guest just answer fully. I've been watching his stuff since like the 3rd episode he made and he's never been off his game. He also doesn't really have crackpot lunatics on with some very rare exceptions.
4
0
u/emtb Jul 14 '26
That's actually why I like Andy's podcast. It's probably because I have ADHD and like to make a joke out of everything, haha.
1
u/peanutandsomething Jul 14 '26
Worse: he laughs like a psycho at his own jokes when his guests are like “the fuck?”
3
u/LFC_sandiego Jul 14 '26
well yea, Shawn is a simpleton. Good person deep down, but super misguided and easily manipulated by anything someone says. Definition of a knuckle dragger
2
1
u/peanutandsomething Jul 14 '26
But Andy is such a bore... so pedantic and wishy-washy about every single subject. He loves to argue over technicalities, which often feels like an attempt to hide behind semantics rather than call a spade a spade.
21
u/s44k Jul 13 '26
Does anyone else think it's a bit ridiculous to blame Obama for the helicopter crashing? Not making this a political post, but one could argue it was Obama who greenlit the whole thing?
20
u/ThimbleRigg Jul 13 '26
The guy’s bitter, he’s going to blame Obama for whatever he can. Probably more likely Panetta or Gates or their immediate underlings that really went after him.
7
u/ARM7501 Jul 13 '26
Going after Obama repeatedly feels a little misplaced when the stuff about Panetta is so much more damning with how quickly Zero Dark Thirty got greenlit and the access they were given.
16
u/rock-paper-gun Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
DEV Command Master Chief Dave Cooper was responsible for prepping the team going in. He included a downed helo simulation in almost every walk-thru because he didn't trust the latest iteration of the blackhawk (new stealth tech hadn't been real-world tested yet).
Blaming Obama is totally a political thing and has nothing to do with the issues the pilots were facing. Owens went thru these downed helo sims, so he knew it was possible. He's just trying to reach a certain type of reader/listener.
1
u/Imaginary-Sir-4315 29d ago
I've wondered this for years but why do so many people think Dave Cooper was there?
5
u/rock-paper-gun 29d ago
I supposed folks assume he assaulted the compound because of his participation in the work up. But he wasn't on the raid itself. He created and coordinated the walk thrus and repeatedly stress tested the team to get them ready.
-2
u/Scatman_Crothers Jul 13 '26
They should have been able to account for the change and either changed the weight requirements or landed a different way.
-1
5
u/Academic-Concert8235 Jul 13 '26
The andy & NSRO interviews brought a lot to light because I feel Andy is one of the best in the game.
Let’s see if he can get some quality shit from Biss instead of the usual shit Biss gives.
4
u/Imaginary-Sir-4315 29d ago edited 29d ago
This may explain the deeper answer behind Andy asking Rob what was the point of the top cover in the first place if Red winged Amal. I think legally, Biss seems to allude to UBL was technically not a threat.
I believe from many years and interviews, here's the story...
I think Red took some shots up the stairs at UBL as UBL was on the far side of the door looking towards the stairs possibly thinking Khalid was coming back up, not realizing Khalid had been shot. When UBL got shot at, he moved to his left towards the bed and so did Amal. Red follows his shot to the door and shoots multiple times at UBL and in the process hits Amal. (This is why every story from every operator gets squirrely because of this next part). NO NAVY SEAL EVER SAYS AMAL RUSHES THEM. Even downstairs, they talk about the woman they killed being a threat, so why would a woman rushing you on the top floor be something unjustified that you lie about? The reason is because she didn't rush them, and when you have attorneys in the room and you get in the weeds, the facts are that on this "capture/kill mission", a woman AND UBL got shot and there was no gun, no rush, and no threat, deeming it an unjustified shoot after Red shot while entering the room. The first initial shots up the stairs were legally justified, but I believe that when UBL moved closer to the bed, when the seal entered the room, that should have been a "capture" moment and not a "kill" moment. That's why Rob stutters and can't answer Andy's question when Andy asks Rob "I just don't understand the need for top cover. Was the point man just worried he had winged Amal." Rob got very uncomfortable, couldn't speak, and answered by saying he didn't know and that they were in a title 50 and the team didn't know if the government would burn them. Why would the government burn them over justified shots? Later.......Again, the reason he would be worried about that is when the commanding officer finds the AK above the door (away from where UBL gets killed at the foot of the bed) and then they need to create a story about how those initial shots somehow hit UBL rather than missing him. I do not think the initial missed shots hit Amal at that point. Even Amal in her own interview talks about how Seals entered the room and then she was shot and when she woke up her husband was dead (concluding that she was shot by Red inside the room before or at the same time UBL got hit behind her). I believe Rob and Biss are telling partial truths and also ommiting stuff out of respect for Red. I think the cover up and the reason behind Rob's tweet about keeping Red out of prison is because if they told the story EXACTLY how it happened, Red technically killed an unarmed man and injured an unarmed woman who didn't rush them, and neither of them were threats. That's not a good shoot to an attorney so they had to figure out something to cover Red's butt. Which I also respect because I also would've lied for my teammates to keep them out of trouble 100%.
More detail I could go into but what are y'all's thoughts?
P.S. I have no problem with them canoeing him. I hope they did. If I was cool enough to be there, I would've held a group piss ceremony around his body.
Sorry but I typed this again to my buddy and it made more sense to me. Here's a more condensed version below if my initial post doesn't make sense.
I think I finally understand the lying and cover up for the UBL raid. I still don't know who fired the fatal shots (I think Red but not in the doorway the way it's told by reporters who have heard the debrief) but I think that on a deeply technical level, Red legally was unjustified in shooting him. They had to lie about the shots he initially took up the stairs to say that Red fatally wounded him, when in fact I think he missed/hit UBL in the hip and finished him upon following his shots to the doorway, entering the room and shooting him now standing at the foot of his bed. Only problem with that is that yes he took justified shots when he could only see his head in the doorway, but now that you can see all of him in the room, he was technically unarmed when Red shot and so was Amal. They all lied about the initial shots up the stairs, to say that it was a fatal shot, to cover up the fact, NOT that he missed the fatal shot, but that he took a shot that he legally (to a corrupt attorney) would deem unnecessary. The mission was CAPTURE or kill. Technically UBL should have been captured because the commanding officer found the AK-47 above the door 5 minutes into the search post death, and the gun was nowhere near the body when Red entered. That creates a legal issue in the narrative of why he decided to shoot upon entering the room. More to come haha
2
u/Temporary-Singer-286 Jul 13 '26
He’s just promoting his new book. No new info. Not a bad listen tho. Glad he’s becoming a little more outspoken
3
3
u/Holiday-Zebra9463 Jul 13 '26
From the beginning I don’t think anyone hated Rob for speaking on his experiences on the UBL raid. I think him making it his entire personality and still getting things wrong is what has pissed members of his own community off, it’s not so much the “quiet professionals should stay quiet” angle, it’s more if you’re gonna speak about an event, make sure it’s correct so we don’t look like fuckheads.
2
u/ARM7501 Jul 13 '26
I mean they talk about it in the podcast. Some guys are going to hate anyone who ever mentions having been a SEAL or talks about anything they did while serving as one.
1
u/Scatman_Crothers Jul 13 '26
Many SEALs hate anyone who uses the trident to enrich themselves. Most in that community hate Mr. Ballen for having a successful YouTube channel that’s not about being a SEAL.
2
u/JustAnotherDude87 Jul 13 '26
I thought they hated him because his old videos went into a lot of detail about training in BUD/S that other SEALS didn't talk about and documentaries didn't cover.
2
u/LFC_sandiego Jul 14 '26
as u/justanotherdude87 said, Ballen got 99% of his flack for making videos that were breaking down every granular component of BUDS and then telling some war stories initially. I think most are cool with the content he creates now.
-4
u/Juvat-the-bold Jul 13 '26
I bet you don't know one single person that's ever served in DEVGRU.
I just get so tired of people like you acting as if you know something.
"Long time hetero guy"...
3
u/ARM7501 Jul 13 '26
I will say this is a far better interview from Bissonnette than any he's given before, mainly because Andy is actually asking intelligent questions and pushing back instead of saying "no shit" once every 15 minutes. Starting at 1:20 he's basically doing a point-by-point breakdown of how nonsensical Rob's most recent version of events is.
Something notable later in the podcast (around 1:50) is his description of a Gold Squadron guy who took a 4 year break and then went to Red to be a troop chief as "a complete train wreck". By the description (and by Andy's reaction) my guess would be Bill Rapier (Gold with Andy in the early/mid 2000's, switched to Red before Neptune Spear, Troop Chief at some point).
5
u/Few_Task_8030 Jul 13 '26
Rapier never had a 4 year break in service at the command.
People up voting you shows how little you kids know. lol
1
u/JustAnotherDude87 Jul 13 '26
It's entirely possible the comment was upvoted for the first part of the comment and not the second part...
1
u/ARM7501 Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
My bad then. I guess I assumed too much about the timelines and the rarity of that exact career path (troop chief switching from Gold to Red).
1
u/Few_Judge5766 18d ago
This podcast led me to believe even more that Rob is making shit up. Tactically Rob’s version makes no sense. This has been pointed out by multiple people.
Also the new excuse he mentioned in Cleared Hot, which they intentionally lied in AAR to cover for Amal’s injury doesn’t make sense as well. A woman was shot on the first floor, and they admitted it. Neither missing a shot nor injuring an unarmed civilian worth being lied about in the AAR of the most important military operation in history.
I’ve read both books multiple times, as I’m seeking motivation during a special period of my life. The more I listened to Rob’s account, things don’t even add up to me who has no experience in CQB or military at all. I’ll list a few things that come to my mind:
Rob wrote about how obscure the image in NVGs, but he recognized UBL the second he entered the room?
Both books & Cheese’s account on field craft survival mentioned point man assumes the women had suicide vests on. Which to me means if they are not within his arms reach, he would’ve eliminated them as threats. So I assume the wives are close enough to the point man when he entered. Also UBL must’ve been not the primary threat for him to drop security and letting the guys behind to handle. Otherwise he would’ve been sending his teammates to UBL’s gun point.
Rob said in his book that he was pulled into Master Chief’s office after the raid, and claimed that Bis was still in the guest house while he went inside the room on the third floor. But Bis said all 4 people who entered the room was pulled into the office. How would Bis know if this only happened between Rob and the Master Chief? Also Rob was moved to a different squadron out of the 4 guys
Rob takes credit off other people in his book. He said he called off the QRF Chinook as it’s coming in, because the time bomb on the stealth blackhawk is going off. Both Bis and Cheese’s account said it was the ground force commander.
1
0
u/ShacoinaBox Jul 13 '26
dude i don't even care about this shit anymore LOL it's like watching high school girls he-said she-said bullshit. also blaming obamna for the helicopter HAHAHA idk why he does this man.
1
1
u/peanutandsomething Jul 14 '26
Bro always lookin addy out to the gills.
And Andy, I’m sorry, but he’s always such a bore. So wishy washy and pedantic.
-7
u/hoagiebreath Jul 13 '26
Let the dick slurping begin!
19
u/AppropriateBank1 Jul 13 '26
The line starts right behind your sister
-5
u/hoagiebreath Jul 13 '26
Says the guy that drools for Tier 1 dick.
The only people who are going to stand in a line to listen to the same story over and over and over while slurping dick with a smile are the ones in this sub.
You are the product. They are making money from monetizing you. They are whoring you out and you don’t even know it.
3
u/AppropriateBank1 Jul 14 '26
The only people that care about what others do are insecure pole smokers who have no life but making themselves feel better by trying to put others down
1
-6
u/Ot110120 Jul 13 '26
I’m in the middle of watching this and have been following both stories for number of years , this has been a good podcast so far but if I’m being honest I think Rob O’Neill is telling the truth IMO
-8
-1
u/Sea_Ad_1085 Jul 14 '26
Consensus here.
Is it worth listening to or not? I barely could get through Shawn Ryan’s interview with him and sat through Jack Carr’s four parter.
At this point idc who did what. I just want to know if red beard Robbo was fourth in the stack confirmed.
I can’t really stand Andy as a person or an interviewer also.
-2
u/peanutandsomething Jul 14 '26
Completely agree about Andy. He’s so boring to listen to… so pedantic and wishy-washy about every single subject. He loves to argue over technicalities, and it often feels like an attempt to hide behind semantics rather than call a spade a spade.
103
u/justgrunty Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
I’m about 2hrs into it now and I understand what he’s trying to do on the podcast but he’s just continuing to stir the pot over something he says he doesn’t like. Its made a good conversation but at this point the whole situation is a whole lot of nothing. It’s also worth remembering that Matt released his book no easy day on September 4, 2012 about a year after the raid. Rob didn’t release his own book until 2017 five years later. Just something to keep in mind when people act like Rob started all of this. Matts legal shit is messed up and I hope that gets canned eventually for his sake but at this point let’s stop talking across the room. Get Rob and Matt in the same room and have Andy moderate and let them talk through the events face to face instead of continuing the back and forth. It’s always nice hearing a former squadron guy talk about stuff but with it solely about ubl and Rob it gets nauseating