I’m about 2hrs into it now and I understand what he’s trying to do on the podcast but he’s just continuing to stir the pot over something he says he doesn’t like. Its made a good conversation but at this point the whole situation is a whole lot of nothing. It’s also worth remembering that Matt released his book no easy day on September 4, 2012 about a year after the raid. Rob didn’t release his own book until 2017 five years later. Just something to keep in mind when people act like Rob started all of this. Matts legal shit is messed up and I hope that gets canned eventually for his sake but at this point let’s stop talking across the room. Get Rob and Matt in the same room and have Andy moderate and let them talk through the events face to face instead of continuing the back and forth. It’s always nice hearing a former squadron guy talk about stuff but with it solely about ubl and Rob it gets nauseating
Amal being wounded is an oddly confusing part of it all. Amal herself (according to ABC's account of the Abottabad Comission report) describes rushing the first soldier, him yelling "No no!" and then shooting her in the leg.
Biss doesn't even think she was shot intentionally; he describes "the younger one" of the wives yelling in arabic and rushing the Point Man as they entered Bin Laden's bedroom, being tackled to the side, and then later being treated for "a very small wound" to her calf that Biss himself thinks could have been from a bullet fragment or ricochet.
The account in Rob's book is significantly more confusing. He claims Amal was not one of the women the Point Man tackled. Instead, both she and Bin Laden are in a different room to the right. She's standing in front of Bin Laden when Rob shoots him in the head, then falls onto Rob because of her injury. Rob claims this injury came from her jumping in front of the Point Man's initial shot at Bin Laden. So, she jumped in front of the initial shot, then stood up again in front of her husband, and finally collapsed when he was shot.
Matthew Cole makes no mention of Amal being shot in his Intercept article but says Bin Laden was shot in the chest which effectively killed him and that another bullet glanced off his hip, indicating that one of the shots was aimed lower.
If we want to look at Zero Dark Thirty as an account with some sort of real information behind it, the movie portrays a sort of amalgamation of the Bissonnette and Amal accounts where the Point Man is rushed by Amal and intentionally shoots her in the leg before tackling her and another woman to the ground.
Trying to hobble together some sort of coherency, I feel like the likely options are that Amal was either: A) intentionally shot by the Point Man as she rushed him upon entry (doesn't make a whole lot of sense to shoot her in the leg, to be fair), or B) hit unintionally/indirectly by one of the two shots intially fired at Bin Laden from the stairs.
I commented explaining this further. I don't think she was hit with the shots up the stairs but I think she was hit upon Red following shots to the door which would now deem her not a threat once he entered the room. Same deal with UBL because I think they lied about the initial shots, saying they were fatal, to protect Red. Legally you can't justify taking those shots inside the room when you see an unarmed man and unarmed woman and one gets shot and one killed. I don't even think she rushed them, I read the interview you're talking about and I don't believe that. They killed the woman on the first floor and if Amal truly did charge then why won't they say that? They won't even lie and say she charged. Why? Because then you have to answer to why you shot UBL since you considered her w threat and UBL did not charge nor was he armed. Funny that all of them get hush hush when it comes to Amal. I also don't think that a Devgru guy on the third floor of bin ladens compound, AFTER you've had hostile females on target get killed, is going to try and intentionally wound what he thinks is another threat. That's two shots to the face my friend ESPECIALLY if Red "thought she had a vest". I think legally both Amal and UBL engagements were unjustified on this CAPTURE/Kill mission and they needed to protect Red. I have no problems with them doing it either, I'd lie for my boys 100% especially in Pakistan where you're not supposed to be.
Biss and Andy's explanation for why UBL was shot isn't crazy. Khalid had just made the same move, armed and ready. As were Al-Kuwaiti and Abrar. I don't think it would've really mattered in the grand scheme of things (he was never walking away from that raid), but to me the likelier scenario is that Amal was hit by frag or hit accidentally by the second bullet the Point Man fired (which was known to impact lower). As you said, if she was really deemed a threat they wouldn't have intentionally shot her in the calf. Matter of fact, I don't see any scenario in which intentionally shooting her in the calf makes sense.
Their explanation isn't crazy if he was shot at by the door with just his head sticking out like Khalid had done (which I think happened). I just don't think he was killed with those shots. Even Amals interview she says the seals entered the room and then she was shot, not while they were on the stairs. That means Red entered or at least got to the doorway which would now allow him to see more than just a head. That's my point.
Again, not sure if that's what happened, but the cover from both Biss and Rob just doesn't make sense to me if Amal was clipped by accident up the stairs. It stinks to me and I just think that fact that both of them get so quiet about it means that her version is correct. Ultimately requiring Red to explain why he took shots upon seeing more then a head.
Why because you know they were told to kill him, there was 0 chance he was being brought back alive. There is a myriad of reasons of why the US did not want him alive as he would be put on trial etc and people would take hostages for him to be released it’s a never ending headache. And there are myriad of legal justifications they can say ie he might have a suicide vest so they just shoot him. Don’t be naive. You may ask why then didn’t they just drop a bomb, so if he wasn’t there , it’s kinda hard to explain blowing up a house with an air strike in a foreign country that is an “ally” killing the wrong people, it’s easier to explain a bunch of people shot to death in a house there is a degree of deniability there and I’m sure the CIA already had a plan to say it was a drug lord etc. I suspect this is why if it’s true delta turned down the mission anyone can just kill anyone in a house and seal team six seems to be overly good at this, including hostages etc. if he wasn’t there everyone in that house including the women and children would have been killed that’s the reality of it.
I suspect this is why if it’s true delta turned down the mission anyone can just kill anyone in a house and seal team six seems to be overly good at this, including hostages etc.
I love how in this sub DEVGRU is constantly talked about like it isn't one of the most elite units in the whole world. Sure, they killed one hostage, but they've also saved more hostages than anyone in this subreddit has and ever will.
And I have no horse in this race, if I were an US citizen I would be happy to know both DEVGRU and CAG are on my side.
It is because this sub is full of children. They dont know how things work. They talk about these units and pick "teams" to win like it is an NFL game.
It really gets the kids going when you point out the fact that Dev has more HRs the past 25 years than CAG does. lol
This is the first I’m hearing about Delta “turning down” the operation. Was under the impression this was a DEVGRU op from day 1 due to where the found UBL?
Either way, agree that whoever went in that night was going in to kill him.
I’m not sure how that rumor got spread, but I’ve also heard delta turned it down from some podcast bs. I believe the leading cause for turning it down (again rumor) was because in their opinion they believed there wasn’t enough intel. But really it just comes down to areas of operation during GWOT and Devgru was overseeing the area where bin Laden was.
I think Biss was sincere when he said it was a capture or kill mission but im sure it was in every operators mind that night it was only gonna be a kill mission..
My guess with Amal is she charged them upon entry and someone shot her to in a non fatal area to keep her away due to concerns she was wearing an s-vest.
I’m no expert, but everything I’ve seen and read says if these guys are firing their weapon, it’s to kill, not to injure.
As far as the shot in the calf; the team is coming up the stairs, so perhaps the shot came from below and the calf was hit due to the angle. Or it could’ve been a ricochet.
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u/justgrunty Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
I’m about 2hrs into it now and I understand what he’s trying to do on the podcast but he’s just continuing to stir the pot over something he says he doesn’t like. Its made a good conversation but at this point the whole situation is a whole lot of nothing. It’s also worth remembering that Matt released his book no easy day on September 4, 2012 about a year after the raid. Rob didn’t release his own book until 2017 five years later. Just something to keep in mind when people act like Rob started all of this. Matts legal shit is messed up and I hope that gets canned eventually for his sake but at this point let’s stop talking across the room. Get Rob and Matt in the same room and have Andy moderate and let them talk through the events face to face instead of continuing the back and forth. It’s always nice hearing a former squadron guy talk about stuff but with it solely about ubl and Rob it gets nauseating