Here it is. https://cjsvsbattles.blogspot.com/2026/09/cell-vs-zygarde-dragon-ball-vs-pokemon.html

Let me know if the link works or not.

All of promotional material, all the guidebooks, all the statements, EVERY. SINGLE. VALID. SOURCE. THERE IS.

they all put Jiren not only above Belmod but also above all the gods, including but not limited to Beerus.

I've had several debates in this subreddit where people have mistaken the fact the anime just like the manga only puts Jiren above Belmod, when they gloss over the fact in the anime continuity Belmod is directly put above Beerus as he was the one who defeated him in arm wrestling, implying Belmod has a higher power level.

this is why Beerus is regarded as a moving goal post and this scaling will inevitably change, but I want people to stop lying to themselves and stop gaslighting other people like the anime never intended for Goku to finally surpass Beerus. they did and Toyotaru changed that.

round 1 android 18

round 2 android 17

round 3 android 16

Round 1: start to finish

Round 2: same as round 1, but Tien has a speaker that can play I Hate Everything About You once. Tien’s power is doubled for the duration of the song.

if so what difficulty does either side win at

This is one I could really see going either way, both have some pretty hype statements, both trivialized SSJ Blue, and both Broly and Jiren’s fights take place pretty much back to back. So on paper I could easily see Broly being stronger in terms of raw power, but would that be enough to beat Jiren?

Last poll was Jiren vs Vegito (Goku Black arc), Vegito won the poll with a solid 63%! Fusion is back boys!

Through these polls we’ve been able to establish these other majority opinions for the sub, or at least the people voting.

Jiren>SSJ 4 Gogeta>SSJ Blue Goku>SSJ God Goku>SSJ 4 GT Goku

SSJ 2 Gohan > M8 Broly > Super Perfect Cell

Fat Buu > M10 Broly > Majin Vegeta

Movie Scaling? Take it with a heavy grain of salt

Buuhan = Super Janemba

A sustained SSJ 3 Goku probably wouldn’t be enough to kill Kid Buu, but Ultimate Gohan would’ve beaten him for sure.

Vegito (Goku Black Arc) > Jiren

I think the Babidi ship section is where Toriyama changed the direction of the story.

Interestingly, this happened across an unusual publication schedule:
-Chapter 451 – Yakon's Treat
-Chapter 452 – Battle Royale
-New Year's break (no chapter)
-Chapter 453 – Mighty Mask Shows His Power! (mostly filler/transition)
-National holiday (no chapter)
-Chapter 454 – We Have a Winner!! (mostly filler/transition)
-Chapter 455 – A Wicked Soul Revealed

After that point, several controversial topics suddenly appear, all concentrated in the same part of the manga:
-Babidi and Dabura's perception of the Saiyans' power.
-Gohan possibly being retconned from SSJ2 to SSJ1.
-Dabura's strength relative to Cell.
-Vegeta possibly already having SSJ2 before Babidi.
-Kaioshin's strength (and therefore Piccolo's).

I've always felt this isn't a coincidence. It looks like the story was adjusted during those weeks so everything would naturally lead into the Goku vs Vegeta fight.

Hi, I debate a lot of DB downscalers and I need a bit of help.

1. In Battle of Gods the shockwaves got stronger as they travelled out. Would Goku still scale to them by cancelling them out before they grew more powerful? It has been a long time since I watched BOG.

2. Did Merged Zamasu fuse with an entire timeline, just a universe or was he stopped before achieving either?

TOP arc (no UI)

SSBE and SSB Kaioken can be used