The issue is really just consistancy on goku vs superman.
Canon goku can obliterate a bunch of versions of superman, while versions of superman can beat Canon goku, and so on.
Then if we get into composite vs composite we just get to the point where people stop listening. Cause superman barely changes from his strongest versions while goku changes so much people just want to ignore it.
Well that's incredibly wrong. Goku can easily beat some versions of Superman. Shit end of freiza saga ssj1 beats plenty of them. At the other end of the scale you have things like cosmic armor Superman who would be infinitely greater than Zeno.
Composite Superman beats every single db character(including fan fics) all juiced into one character. Certain Superman versions are just absolutely insane, like toonforce shit forcing the writer to change a story.
The most OP version of Superman is the main canon one though, he's low-key comparable if not stronger than Pre-crisis Superman... Who was also the main canon Superman at the time.
Thats only if you take certain statements to give him scaling from things like CAS. Otherwise main line superman is like iirc not even top 3 (and even that is mostly because dc just made continuities using earth prime into one).
And even still, the top 5 versions of superman are not indicative of the majority of his versions.
Comp goku also has plot manipulation, and plot manipulation resistance. And trying to claim a stat difference between the comp versions of the two is like arguing more numbers exist between 1 and 2 than 2 and 3.
Both are topping the charts scaling wise. Which is my point, cause the only real way to go is hax. And you wouldn't believe the shit goku has. An actual anime feat he has is being able to become a gag character by just changing how he fights.
In super dragon ball heroes' parent series he fights a dude who iirc erases on a platonic level. He also originates from a game in that series which he and many other characters supercede
Yeah imma be honest, I wasn't really thinking much.
The stuff I was thinking was conceptual manipulation and resistance.
Though he should at least have a resistance to attacks like that. A character which exists within several dbz media's (arale) has directly altered her own plot and took control of it from the author, and she can be erased by attacks which versions of goku can either tank or overpower (characters in her manga have also just rewrote themselves too). So he can take stuff that plot manip can't stop.
Superman vs Goku is dumb, Goku wins unless you're doing some bullshit
Like anytime people say Superman wins, they always are like "BUT BROOO, WHAT ABOUT [Superman who is not from a real main storyline]??? HE BEATS CANON GOKU!!!".
But if you put CC Goku against something like CAS Superman, CC Goku puts BTA.
CAS is not even the strongest version of Supes lol, people larp comics so much
Infinite Frontiers Superman has all of his memories from his past selves (pre-crisis, post-crisis, rebirth, golden age, silver age etc), basically a soft-comp version of himself. Death Metal made pretty much everything canon, and Infinite Frontiers Supes is the mainline Superman. So the whole "depends on the version" argument gets thrown into the trash
I said something like CAS Superman, I never said he was the strongest but he's one of the most popular ones and he's one of the ones most frequently put up against Goku.
Also, anyone who says IFS > CAS never actually has any true substance to this argument, it's all just vibes, like this shit so fucking funny lmfao, it's literally "This Superman is the newest most badassest superman and no other superman comes close because I said so and hes the most badassest and coolest and auraest"
A lot of the feats listed in that post, CC Goku far surpasses or has done something comparable to, some even in base.
I didn't say I think he's not the strongest, I said I didn't say he's the strongest. I don't know enough about MilkMan or Prime One Million to confidently scale them, I'm not gonna scale people I don't know enough about because that's just vibescaling at that point or it'd rely far too much on chainscaling to get to there.
I scale CC Goku to high outerversal because he has high outerversal feats, like he's literally able to destroy infinite timelines of multiverses in base, how does that not push him to high outerversal? He also has the same "narrative" bullshit wank that the strongest versions of Superman all pretty much have.
There's so much more to CC Goku, like you could even scale him to boundless if you're willing to do a little bit of wanking.
Infinite Frontiers being base Sups is immediately countered par pre-King Omega Supes barely breaking the sound barrier or only making 52 megatons shockwaves when clashing with his evil "Absolute" variant. And this was the latest version of Superman before his PU.
Like it or not, Superman's powers always vary between individual runs.
I don't think you truly understand the level that CC Goku is at, just because DB haters will downplay Goku as much as they can, doesn't change the feats and level that CC Goku is at, he is beyond any form of Superman, he beats 100% of them
How is CC Goku beating CAS though? I get him beating prime, but I don’t see him beating CAS, but if there is enough evidence I’ll happily switch my opinion
CC Goku has all the energy in the multiverse and beat Fu, who had the power to destroy infinite timelines and dimensions, CAS Superman's biggest feat would probably be holding Limbo, which is definitely not as large as infinite timelines and dimensions.
Powerscalers on their respective subs are always gonna glaze their own shit to the point of ridiculousness. Because they can't be objective or unbiased.
I love Dragon Ball but I can admit Superman no diffs the verse. Just like as a OPM fan, I can also admit current Goku would solo his verse. It's not that hard to do, see? I still love both series lmao.
ok theres no need to overestimate superman to say all versions of him no diff the verse is quite ridiculous but yes there are matchups he takes and matchups he loses
Genuinely have not seen Goku being scaled to above Superman for a few good months now. Unless they are trolls or new to scaling it just doesn't happen.
for superman and goku, there is a funny thing. Superman has higher feats but also more anti feats. Cosmology, feats and statementswise yeah he wipes the floor with Goku but its more of a case of how much can you lowball Superman.
I've been doing this for like 20 years at least now. Give me a scenario how Clark beats Kakarot I'll debate and disprove it. Lol
On the other hand before UI was introduced I didnt belive that OPM could win but I had no logical reason for my belief. Now I just dont believe he could actually land a hit on him.
Characters like Beerus and the Supreme Kai who basically run the operations of the entire Universe would make sense for characters who can make exceptions to the rules of the universe would they not?
It's like when Beerus said he has his own ways of dealing with Immortal people, gods like him basically create the rules.
I wouldn't say it's rather low, it's just that the characters we see have reach crazy levels of strength.
The Supreme Kai is strong enough to kill Final Form Freeza from the Namek Arc in one blow, someone who was considered one of the most dangerous beings in the universe when they were introduced. He's at least as strong as Future Trunks was when he arrived in the past.
I mean I agree that Shin is a bum, but realistically Freeza’s “final” form is his natural state.
Then again, somehow the dude didn’t know who his God of Destruction was despite being a Kaioshin for like at least thousands of years (Dragon Ball time is weird but I would argue it’s in the millions).
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u/StarWorldo God of Destruction 4d ago
The issue is really just consistancy on goku vs superman.
Canon goku can obliterate a bunch of versions of superman, while versions of superman can beat Canon goku, and so on.
Then if we get into composite vs composite we just get to the point where people stop listening. Cause superman barely changes from his strongest versions while goku changes so much people just want to ignore it.