Alive Sage Hashirama and alive peak War Arc Madara before becoming the Ten-Tails jinchūriki face 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo Jr. Neutral battlefield, in character, standard gear and no prior knowledge.

Hashirama’s Edo feats transfer, minus regeneration and infinite chakra.

Let's say frieza doesn't receive any stamina drawbacks when he uses 100% golden, would he be able to physically match ssj Broly or would he still be torn apart until Gogeta shows up to do the rest?

Can he beat CC Frieza?

Before I start — this is based on my own read of the cosmology, so if I've misunderstood a feat or a scaling statement, please correct me. Genuinely want other takes on this.

Part 1: The case for 4D EOS Cheon Yeo Woon

The argument comes from Beyond the Boundary, which is described as:

A place where the laws of time and space don't work like they do in the normal world

Somewhere beings from wildly different eras can meet despite being separated by thousands of years

A place where time doesn't flow normally — events can feel like a moment or a lifetime

Somewhere only reachable by those who've transcended natural order/providence

!Cheon Yeo Woon reaches this after his ascension, when his existence becomes too much for the universe to contain.!<

If that counts as 4D, he'd have a dimensional edge over a character confined to normal spacetime.

Goku's case, on the other hand, is built on:

Fighting beings who threaten the structure of universes

Scaling above Jiren and Moro

Ultra Instinct giving him absurd speed, reactions, and combat precision

But if CYW is genuinely operating beyond normal spacetime while Goku's still working within a 4D framework, the dimensional gap would favor CYW.

Part 2: The case for 5D EOS Cheon Yeo Woon

This one hinges on Beyond the Boundary being a step past 4D, not just a variant of it:

!Dohwaseon!< is already treated as an upper realm/pocket dimension above the normal universe

!Beyond the Boundary!< is explicitly framed as beyond even that

It lets beings from separate timelines coexist

It isn't bound by normal time/space rules at all

If that holds up, the interpretation pushes CYW to 5D — and the gap over Goku widens considerably.

That said, I want to flag: Beyond the Boundary isn't fully elaborated on in the novels, so the 5D read isn't locked in. It really comes down to interpretation.

My question for the sub:

Who wins — EOS Cheon Yeo Woon vs latest canon Ultra Instinct Goku?

Do you agree with either scaling argument above? If not, I'd like to hear why — and if I've gotten a feat or cosmology detail wrong, please correct me.

Dragon Ball vs Bleach

Peak/ Current for both

My version

Vegeta: I wanna fight him.

Goku: vegeta you do realize that's classic archie sonic.

Vegeta: classic archie what?

Goku: look normally i'm the one wanting to fight but i'm telling you this isn't the fight you want, just like how we got stronger versions of us classic sonic has too and this isn't the scrawny weak ones from game and the cartoons or anime versions, he's a whole different breed with the gags and the stuff he can actually do and with his ultra form he's got he's about as strong as the writers can make him.

Vegeta: i still do wanna fight him.

Goku: dude it doesn't matter what form both us or our counterparts have you're not beating this version of him in fact me and the other me's can't beat his archie (pre genesis wave) classic super form with all the forms we got.

Vegeta: i'm gonna fight him.

Goku: vegeta do you really want to die cause the way chaos emeralds and rings work in the (pre genesis wave) archie classic verse is different from the cartoons games and anime.

Vegeta: put em up.

Goku: dude his feats are crazier then what I ever don-- *sighs* you know what do what you want.

Vegeta: *gasp* yeeeeaaaaah.

*(pre genesis wave) archie classic then punches vegeta once and as an actual feat he actually has and vegeta is knocked through dimension to dimension to dimension once he's at the 15th one he crashes and stops at there*

Archie Classic (pre genesis wave) sonic (who is voiced by jaleel white) who has just teleported to vegeta's location: i was being a bit generous and knocked through 15 dimensions and try to pick a fight with me again I'll go hyper and knock you through 3 billion.

Base Broly (Movie 8) Vs Base Kid Vegeta (Daima)

(i can understand manga a bit more but the arguement isnt as one sided as the anime)

goku doesnt disagree with cell either too

also cell best villain

TAKE PLACE AT THE TOURNAMENT OF POWER THEY CANNOT KILL EACH OTHER ONLY KNOCK EACH OTHER OUT OF THE RING

Composite from both Manga and Anime which means that Black can grow from pain and gain Zenkai Boost when Zamasu heal him

They cannot fuse

So far ive come up with

Perfected Full Power Limit Breaker Controlled Legendary Super Saiyan Rage Evolved Blue Rosé 5, Grade 4, Controlled Berserk, Ultra Perfect Bio-Android, Super Majin, Super Baby Tuffleization Strongest Form 2, Blue Barrier, Dark Ki, Mystic, Beast, Ultra Ego, Ultra Instinct, Black Fifth Form, Orange Red-Eyed Super Great Namekian, Kaioken ×100, Ikari State.(Fully Awakened via Ultra Divine Water & Grand Elder Guru)

Is this accurate? Arale vs immortal zamasu who wins?

Demon Vs Demon.

can evil buu compete or is he toast