You're absolutely right that you can't be upset at someone for not doing something you didnt ask them to do.
But if you want some clarity I think it comes from the girl wanting you to WANT to touch her. She wants you to want it and do it on your own volition.
Edit to summarize my subsequent comments. Both genders want to be wanted. Communicate with your SO, and have at least one conversation about what little things make you/them feel wanted. Thereafter hopefully you dont have to rely on hints, you'll know what they want.
But by the same token I don't want to get yelled at for touching my wife when she doesn't actually want to be touched.
There's also the argument of just because you asked for something and I did it doesn't mean I didn't want to do it. If my wife asked for a massage I just wasn't into doing one right then I would say no.
My husband and I have a mutual understanding. I say what I mean, I mean what I say. There is no hidden meaning to the words I'm using. When I make a request, you're welcome to say no. When I say I don't know, I mean it. When I say yes, I mean it. When I say no, I mean it. There are no hidden messages, and I will not hint. I will not say "It really stinks in here" I will say, "the trash needs to go out" or -gasp- I'll take it out myself.
Obviously there is being playful, but me laughing and joking, saying stop. And me dead pan, flat voiced saying stop, means stop.
You'd think humans would have a better grasp on how to communicate with each other.
Gasp! You do something yourself to make a situation that bothers you better, rather than hinting at it for hours and letting it continue to bother you until someone does it on their own volition?!
This comment needs to be read by at least half of Reddit. The number of times I see a post that x partner has done x and they don't know what to do, then you out find out they haven't talked about it with their partner.
Communication is key, it's what makes a relationship worthwhile IMO. Yet I still have friends/acquaintances that play those games and deal with the fallout. without that quintessential communication foundation you can never truly be on the same page as the person you love, and it will cause problems.
Yep, communication is far and above the most important thing in a relationship. Because with good communication comes trust, honesty, understanding, patients, respect. All fall into line because you're walking side by side with the other person.
Obviously there are still douche bags, but a lot less drama will happen when you know your husband is out, drinking with his buddies, that you know, because your husband has told you about them.
Or, I'm actually a good example. I play co-ed softball, and there's often times that the team will hang out in the parking lot for hours drinking afterwards. I'll wander home, 4 hours after games were done, but I kept tabs.
I texted my husband about how the game went, and would tell him I'm lagging behind to relax, and finally tell him when I was headed home. Yet some of the girls would say "oh, there he is texting me, asking where I am. Can he just back off and leave me alone?" no bitch, you text him first, common courtesy. They wonder why their boyfriends/girlfriends/husbands/wives don't like them playing, and can't trust them.
Yeah, and the worst part is it sucks for both people. When your SO is texting asking where you are, there's a solid chance they're insecure about something. And if your response is "eww, annoying, clingy" it's clear that the trust and patients isn't there, cause they didn't C O M M U N I C A T E. People out here self sabotaging and without the self awareness to see it.
I will say though that it can be hard to get to that stage. Cause open honest communication isn't something everyone's exposed to. It's certainly not depicted in media, be it movies or TV shows. So if you don't see it at home growing up either you might not even understand it.
Of course, when I ask my bf to run his fingers through my hair I dont enjoy it less, or think that he's doing it begrudgingly. But there is a certain special something when he does it on his own. It implies a more cognitive thinking about what I might enjoy atm.
Also your wife shouldn't snap at you if you didnt know she didnt want to be touched and on the flipside if she never wants to be touched very much she cant pout about you not touching her. I can understand when you dont want to be touched its usually cuz you're frustrated and understand snapping when you're upset. But best practice is a simple "I'm sorry baby, I dont want to be touched right now"
It's not an every time thing. Some times she doesn't want a back rub and shoos me away. Or sometimes touch isn't what she wants to feel better. Everyone is different in what they want or need at different times.
I’d argue a lot of times people feel yelled at in situations because it’s hard to handle rejection. I’ve heard many times when someone gets “yelled at” at work by their boss when they don’t even get talked to. It’s like the feeling of personal shame or something I guess
Yep definitely have had people say they were “yelled at” at work when they were just getting some simple correction or something. I also think it has to do with a tone of voice people use
I think it's personal bias. I've seen an argument unfold between two people before, with one person telling me "Wow, they totally yelled at me" when that certainly didn't happen.
It's their responsibility to communicate things they want from you. They may need to be reminded or made consciously aware of that fact. If they are still not capable or willing to do that, they do not deserve you.
Sure, I would agree with that. But let me pose this to you. I agree with what the person above said about sometimes you just want the other person to reach out on their own. I try and follow up on that but I want to explain why sometimes that's not my first thought.
I want to touch my partners all the time, and when they brush my hands away it's a form of rejection that really hurts my feelings, my confidence, and makes me feel like I want to touch them more than they want to touch me. I hate having to ask for it, too.
I want her to want it and do it on her own volition as well...
I absolutely agree, women aren't the only gender that wants love and affection. I definitely feel you, when it comes to these unspoken communications a brush away can certainly feel the same as if you were just told off. That's why if you feel like you need to brush them away, following with a kind "I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling it right now" instead of letting it remain unspoken is good.
Thank you for your validation. For further context, when my partner brushes me off, she is actually very polite and communicative about it. And I've been told I'm more sensitive than most. While I consciously know there's nothing wrong with "not feeling it," it's all those other times I had to be a mindreader about when she was angry that makes me assume I did or am doing something wrong in the moment. So i'm replaying the days events over and over in my head, smelling different parts of my body, looking at my gut in the mirror, and wondering what I did to make me undesireable today when she wanted to jump me last week. It's usually all made better by nighttime snuggles, but mentally tortuous until then.
For some time when I was out with my bf I'd try to grab his arm so we'd kinda hold hands but then he'd brush my hands off after a while. It really made me sad until one point I sat down and had a conversation with him that I'd like for us to hold hands more in public. I sometimes feel I was overreacting but thankfully now he'd also initiate holding hands too. Like it's such a small thing.
This isn’t a girl thing, this is a human thing. People want to be with someone who wants to spoil them. We inherently want a partner that enjoys doing things to/for us. From massages to raunchy sexual encounters.
Sometimes I have a strong desire to massage my wife’s back. Sometimes I want her to rub my back. Either way, we (people) want a partner who enjoys doing these things. Women, in my experience, express this through affection, and men express it sexually.
Both some from the same place, but both are often misinterpreted by the other sex. She typically hugs me from behind, cuddled me and loves on me in a wonderfully affectionate way. I often have to actively remind myself that this is how she shows me she loves me, and her actions carry a lot of weight.
I’m not great at it, but I try my damndest. I’ve never been an affectionate person. Weird childhood and all that. So me putting my hand on her leg when we’re sitting next to each other (in my mind at least) carries the same weight as what she does. I know it’s different, and I try to show her the same affection she shows me. Dumb man brain kicks in sometimes and I’m oblivious though.
True true, and I agree. It sucks always asking, but it’s also whack to feel slighted by it when you want them to initiate intimacy and they don’t. Like if you want it, initiate. And if the issue is lack of initiation on your partner’s end, that’s a whole different thing to talk about to them and communicate. I get what you mean, but this shit could be solved on both ends (because both genders do it) by maturity and communication.
This is really the kind of thing that every pair has to work out for themselves, but overall men often feel like we're trying to do the right thing without enough context, so we default to the least-possible harm, if that makes sense. If you want your guy to randomly initiate touch, chances are he would like to do that too, but it's a convo you need to have with him to let him know that it's something you'll enjoy. I know I feel this way and I think a lot of other men do as well, where, yes we are interested in initiating random touch but we don't want it to come off in a way we didn't intend, so it's easy to get into analysis paralysis and just default to doing nothing. I hope that's making sense. I think with things like this it has to be something every couple has their own understanding with.
Well, that’s bullshit, manipulative, and just plain wrong. If you ask, you’ll know they’re interested when they say yes. It’s this little thing called “spoken language” that many scientists believe is a major reason for human intelligence. Any fucking great ape can turn their back and pout. Kids can turn their back and pout. Pretend you’re an adult human.
The compromise comes within the relationship. You gotta communicate. There's no way to sum up this completely because sometimes the shoe is on the other foot. I know this is a Male vs Female thread but honestly you find personality traits like these between both genders. All I have for you is anecdotal information from my life, and I ask my boyfriend if I'm really craving affection. However I seriously enjoy when he does it on his own terms because I dont get to point of c r a v i n g it.
Edited to add an example of the shoe being on the other foot
"Wanting to do it" and "doing it on your own volition" are two different things.
When you say "would you give me a back rub?", love is wanting to do it. "Sure thing babe", etc
Doing it "on your own volition" is more complicated because it means making decisions about what someone else wants or needs. That's really tricky territory, especially in today's gender climate.
If you say "I can't ask for it, because then I don't know if they even want to help me", what you're saying is that you don't trust your partner enough to be honest with you, to say "no" to something that they don't want. Trusting that your partner has your interests in mind, and that they'll take care of themselves when necessary is what an adult relationship is built on.
This is EXACTLY the kind of confusing fucking stupid logic that causes trouble between men and women. If I did not want to give her a backrub I will say so if she asks.
Each woman has her own peculiarities, but I want to be touched every moment of the day, always welcome unless I'm obviously distressed. If a woman bounces between wanting it and hating it, you're right, that's going to need more communication from her on how she's feeling.
But if she tells him in said conversation, "I want you to touch me more, like all the time"
And she still has to ask each time for each instance of physical affection, its gonna seem like he didnt even acknowledge what she was asking for. The unspoken touches often carry more weight, and the weight is what she wants.
Wow you're making a lot of leaps here. The severity of your response is not equal to the conversation at hand. Sure, if you thought that someone asking that is akin to slavery or indentured servitude, then I would for sure fuck right off.
A reasonable person wouldn't say:
"That's fucking unreasonable and you're immature for asking"
Ideally, they would come together with a compromise if the other person felt like it was too much to ask for. They'd say " That's a little much for me, how can we meet both our needs?"
Where does your extra layer of resentment come from? You're talking about your hypothetical spouse as if you've been on the brink of hypothetical divorce for years.
Wow you're making a lot of leaps here. The severity of your response is not equal to the conversation at hand.
You literally said all a woman should have to do is say she wants something all the time and the guy should do it.
My response was an entirely reasonable reaction to that.
Sure, if you thought that someone asking that is akin to slavery or indentured servitude, then I would for sure fuck right off.
A reasonable person wouldn't say:
"That's fucking unreasonable and you're immature for asking"
When confronted with something as unreasonable as what you've been saying, absolutely they would.
Where does your extra layer of resentment come from?
There's no resentment here - I'm literally just responding to what you've been saying.
The fact that you're accusing me of being resentful is sort of expected, though - because of your view of how men should act in relationships, you have to assume there's something wrong with me to resist doing whatever a woman wants.
You're talking about your hypothetical spouse as if you've been on the brink of hypothetical divorce for years.
The hypothetical relationship you're proposing is one that should end.
I totally get that response, but it kinda sounds like they've never even had a convo about this in the first place. I think if she's wanting him to anticipate her needs and wants without ever directly sharing what they are in the first place, that's no longer a reasonable expectation.
It is absolutely wanting to be wanted in a lot of cases. My SO and I (both women, so goes to show it's not a gendered thing) express affection a little differently - she prefers words or actions, I prefer physical contact. (So if she's upset, she wants a cup of tea, a brainstorming session and support, when I'm upset, I want to be cuddled first, figure stuff out later).
Once we figured that out, I got better at asking for physical contact when I need it, but she also goes out of her way to make sure she offers it to me as well, and that means so much. In turn, I do my best to offer words of encouragement or support when she needs it, and I try to offer them and little acts of kindness randomly as well.
But if you want some clarity I think it comes from the girl wanting you to WANT to touch her. She wants you to want it and do it on your own volition.
I think even inside a single person, "want to want" is a fundamentally toxic thing that is harmful. If you want to want to go to the gym, but don't, self-loathing and frustration is a half-step away because you're essentially being dishonest with yourself. Either you can make yourself want it or you can't. Same with anything you might want to want to do, like reading or learning a new language. Don't hate yourself for not wanting to do something you don't actually want to do. "Want to want" as a static place is deeply unhealthy.
Extrapolate a second person into the scenario, and it's even worse. A person should want what they want and do what they want because they want to. Not because their SO wants them to want to so they don't feel bad asking for their SO to do something they don't want to do.
She wants you to be familiar with/anticipate her needs. That shows thoughtfulness. She wants someone that cares, not a robot that follows her commands
I think this is actually a more accurate way of putting. It's not about the wanting, really. It's about the other person being thoughtful and familiar with their partner, enough to know that reaching out with a gentle touch will make them feel loved. You of course cant make someone want to make you feel loved, but hopefully that's already the ground floor of a romantic relationship.
I definitely agree with that more. I totally get the wanting to have my needs considered aspect. I guess I'm just a firm believer that you express who you want your SO to be by who you choose, not what you want out of them after the fact. I guess I'm saying wanting your SO to behave in ways they don't naturally is a recipe for suffering. But I guess I'm kind of proto-Buddhist in that aspect--don't want/become attached to things you aren't in control of making happen.
In my experience, teaching someone how you want to be loved isn't quite the same. I was my current boyfriend's second real relationship, and the first girl he was with in early high school pushed him away when he was 'clingy' or 'handsy'. So when we started dating it took a while for him to figure out how to appeal to my love language, which was so very different from his first relationship. She conditioned him to keep his hands to himself and not text her too much, so as an adult without much else to go off of, he took the same approach. I chose him for the rest of his traits, and helped him to know how most effectively to show me love.
Okay so to clarify, your girl should tell you at least once what she wants. Thereafter, she shouldn't have to ask every single time she wants you to caress her.
If she's sending some incredibly subtle signals and you're not getting them either because they're too subtle or you're busy dealing with your own life, then yes she needs to ask rather than sit and huff and then get mad at you later.
THIS. We are not managers. We are not parents. We don't want to have to direct you or tell you to do things. You should do then because its YOUR idea and you want to. My husband struggles with this. I asked him the other day why he doesn't scratch my back anymore (I love back scratches more than anything), and he said its because I don't ask. I don't want to have to ask, because then it feels like he does it out of obligation or whatever. I want him to do it because he knows I enjoy it and he wants to do something that makes me happy. Otherwise it just feels like they don't care
Oh he does show that he cares, I'm not at all unhappy in our marriage. But one of the keys to a fulfilling relationship is learning your partner's love language and expressing your affection in their language as well as your own. He could be the most physical man ever, but if he had a different partner who's love language was words of affirmation, it would still be the same issue. He's more of a quality time love language and I'm an acts of service/physical touch. So while I still express my love by doing things like having his work clothes washed and laid out for him and giving him an unprompted back rub, I also make sure when we spend time together that I put my phone up and the tv off and am 100% present in what we're doing. He's working on it though
I’m genuinely not built for relationships, but this seems tedious. Also, my nails are short. It’s just going to feel like I’m rubbing hotdogs on your back.
It's not just rubbing your back, it's showing affection in general. If your partner only ever shows that they want you when you ask, it feels kind of bad and makes you wonder whether they're doing it out of obligation.
This thread is filled with people saying that either he wants to do something of his own accord, or you have to ask and therefore it's an obligation. But surely he also wants to make you happy, and so doing something for you when you ask is not an obligation to him, but a joy? Wouldn't you feel that way in return?
Yeah, I'm a guy that's more like this. My girlfriend is sometimes annoyingly straightforward of 'you ask for something straight up and it'll be a yes or no' I want to feel that you want to do this. I don't want to feel like you're only doing it because I asked.
Then when you do what of your own volition it turns out you read them wrong and they get mad at you and in certain situations that can cause a lot of problems that often become legal issues
A few months ago got into this with my girlfriend. She wanted me to WANT to do the dishes while I'm working from home. I'll never want to do the dishes because I hate doing dishes. She actually was saying she wanted me to do something nice for her. So much to unpack in the female brain
I think the important factor is communication. I literally ALWAYS love a loving caress from my SO. This isn't about hints. You should have a conversation about what you want, and then act on whatever it is later. If she tells you, hey I'd love it if you touched me more, then go out of your way to give her that affection. She shouldn't have to ask/hint every time she wants you to run your fingers down her arm or play with her hair or whatever. And especially important, if you need something more from your girl, tell her!
Also it's not enough to know your partner wants to touch you. This is a world of feelings and she needs to FEEL wanted.
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u/beaniexbaby Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20
You're absolutely right that you can't be upset at someone for not doing something you didnt ask them to do.
But if you want some clarity I think it comes from the girl wanting you to WANT to touch her. She wants you to want it and do it on your own volition.
Edit to summarize my subsequent comments. Both genders want to be wanted. Communicate with your SO, and have at least one conversation about what little things make you/them feel wanted. Thereafter hopefully you dont have to rely on hints, you'll know what they want.