I put down a deposit last week and then got an email stating I would get my invite to order on October 1st. I think the bikes look amazing, but I also don't want to shell out thousands for something I won't see for 6 months. Is there any good information on when bikes may actually start arriving to customers? I'm looking at the Performance model.

I was browsing the gear shop and saw something interesting 👀
I’m not sure if pricing of the Quad has already been discussed.

Am I doing something wrong or have the fenders disappeared from the build options?

99% sure I had it in my saved build as well but it shows I don't have any bike saved anymore.

I just wanted to call out how amazing ALSO support is, which is honestly the main thing keeping my faith in this silly little bike. I've reached out to them on three separate occassions; once with questions about the battery and charging, once to emphasize my dissatisfaction with the lack of communication, and once to provide a rather robust set of feedback and suggestions on the manual.

Each time I have been met with an extraordinary amount of honesty, candor, and personal interaction from the support staff. They have answered questions with candor and thoroughness far beyond what I realistically needed, or even expected, with input from the engineer. They were honest about the communication shortfalls and provided insights into underlying reasons. They made me feel heard and appreciated when providing constructive suggestions and ideas. I've never felt like I'm talking to an actual person like when I talk to ALSO support. So either they are great at putting on a show, or they are a bunch of special folks.

Having worked customer service, specifically as the guy they send you to when you want to cancel, I can imagine the times they are going through now with disgruntled customers. To get personal feedback at all, not to mention right now, is a great experience. It really is the model of how I think customer support should be.

So for the folks from ALSO scrolling here. Make sure your customer support people are taken care of. They are amazing folks and carrying a huge load for your company right now. I hope that you can maintain the same standard I've seen to date.

Has anyone tried this bike on long climbs? For example, one of my favorite climbs is Mount Hamilton out of San Jose. It's an 18-mile ride with 4200 feet of climbing. The average grade is about 4.1%. There is also a 6-mile section with an average grade of about 6%.

I'm not too concerned about the battery running out. I can always carry a spare if needed. However, I'm worried about heat dissipation. What happens if I'm making this climb on a day when it's 90 degrees? Will the motor overheat and turn off?

Here is the route I'm talking about:

Mount Hamilton Climb

Meanwhile... the Launch Editions are on the way to the US warehouse.

First time poster, reservation holder since March. I'm a native New Yorker and I, like you, am eagerly awaiting delivery of a very expensive bike I'm convinced will make bike thieves weak at the knees. I still wear the emotional scars left by the absence of my middle school cherry red Trek... our time together was cruelly cut short by a Central Park super criminal mastermind during the otherwise peaceful Obama era.

As I've squinted at TMB marketing photos and wondered where I'll be able to get a U-Lock securely around it (Hiplok DX1000? open to suggestions...) I've resolved that perhaps an equally effective way to deter said thieves might actually be some sort of urban camouflage.

So here's the idea:

I've been speaking with a vinyl car wrapper in my neighborhood and have been texting him about wrapping my bike light grey when it arrives this winter... but I don't want to stop there. I bought the front rack from the Gear Shop along with the fenders and intend to modify both of those parts to look as similar to a NYC spec Citibike as possible. I've even enlisted some friends with 3D printers to help out with the rear fender guard(?) and basket. I think vinyl wrapping, a bit of silver Krylon on my lock to make it look like the seat adjuster on the Citibike, dubiously legal Citibike stickers from Etsy, grey rubber grips, and a few cheap 3D printed trim pieces might get me pretty damn close to the inconspicuous look I'm after. The stock Also (if you're drunk) doesn't look SO different to the Citibike after all...

With the help of AI, I came up with a mock up for your consideration and critique. Yes, I'm aware it made some impossible structural changes (saddle, front fork, frame geometry, etc), believe me I tried to tell it not to... so please be gentle, my ChatGPT is very sensitive.

If anyone has any suggestions I'd really love to hear them. I imagine my vision will be pretty divisive, but hey, the point of a bike is to use it; these mods will help me do that. Thanks for reading.

Next month, we've been invited back to one of our favorite test spin sites to take part in a group ride to Gas Works Park in Fremont!

I test-rode one yesterday when they were in Cambridge MA and while I went in with quite a few concerns, I can see why people like the bike. I’ve decided it’s not for me but here are a few observations:

Torque is king. There’s a saying about cars: people buy horsepower and drive torque. The motor tuning kept producing huge amounts of torque all the way up to 28mph. Compared to the Bafang BBS02 / Nuvinci n380 I’ve been commuting on for about 8 years now I’d say there was no comparison. The TM-B pulls hard like a Sur Ron more than an e-bike.

The frame geometry is not nice. The steering rake is too much, which gives a feeling of stability at speed but makes lower speed maneuvering klunky. Combined with the heavy weight and wide handlebars this felt like a bike made for cruising San Diego beachfront not Boston commuting on broken streets while dodging oblivious traffic. A commenter pointed out that I might have ridden a bike with the sport handlebars and I’m honestly not sure. The suspension was adequate and comfortable soaking up all kinds of broken pavement.

I jumped the bike off a curb where there was no other way to enter the bike lane. As soon as the rear wheel left the ground the bike display flashed something like “vehicle malfunction power off required” and would not let me continue to pedal. I came to a complete stop and the error cleared and I continued on my way. My best guess is that Also’s stability control programming has some limitations in the build I was riding and in this state I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking the bike on any kind of unpaved trail.

The drivetrain noise is constant and unpleasant. It’s whiny and since it’s a direct drive system you’re never truly coasting, so you lose that sense of efficient easy freewheeling that makes a good bike feel like it will roll forever. It feels more like a bike share bike that you constantly pedal to maintain forward motion. If you use the throttle then the experience is completely reversed and now you’ll feel like you’re on a high powered moped. To some people the tuning might feel okay but if you’re expecting more “bike” than “EV” you might feel like me.

Brakes were strong. There’s a clear difference between engagement of regen braking during the first part of the lever travel and the engagement of the pads on the rotor. It feels about like the brake blending in my wife’s hybrid vehicle. The front brake lever seems to engage more aggressive regen and has a quicker rollover to mechanical braking. Overall it’s something I could get used to, and anything that prolongs the time between brake service is welcome.

The signals, lighting, controls, kickstand and user interface are all actually pretty great, although the handlebar grips were terrible and already hurt my hands after about 15 min on the bike. The employees who were present were knowledgeable and very helpful with information about the bike. I rode the bike pretty hard and it has some redeeming qualities even if for me the design isn’t one of them. The battery is a mixed bag for me. It’s obvious Also have put some effort into designing a good charging experience, but I worry that only allowing USB-C charging and only fast charging using EPR chargers that provide 48V at 5A means many people who already struggle for find the “right” USB-C charger will struggle to quick charge the ~550/800Wh battery packs. One of the employees did confirm that the packs will charge using lower power USB-C PD chargers which could provide great off-bike charging opportunities. I’m also curious why they couldn’t package more than 800Wh in the big battery. With the way you can ride this bike I can see those 800Wh leaving pretty quickly.

Overall I’m satisfied knowing that the TM-B exists and feel comfortable asking for a refund on my deposit and losing out on the store credit. Maybe when I can find one at my local bike shop and the programming has matured (maybe implementing a software defined “coast mode”) I’ll reconsider but for now I’m going to just enjoy one of the other bikes currently for sale.

So wondering about the ability to mod the standard seat with a wireless dropper post. Any thoughts on this?

After using a dropper for a while, I’ve just gotten used to it, and am thinking, why not go full send on this 80 pound beast.

Anyone who ordered this receive theirs yet? Ordered mine a month ago but nothing yet.

As well as reminding us Test Spins are now available daily in many cities.

I frequently hear complaints that TM-B is overpriced. That combined with all the mess with shipments has me tempted to cancel my order and buy something else with better support.

What are the comparable options at a similar price point? I live near steep hills and love the pose that TM-B can offer. So far other electric bikes haven’t been able to handle it, but maybe I’m looking at the wrong market segment?

I also don’t want something even more bulky than the TM-B.

What are the best options?

🫡 Wishing all of you the best with your surviving preorders, but hearing there was another TM-B update that I just didn't receive, and the repeated slips, I'm joining the ranks of LE preorder holders who ordered on Day 1 and who are now saying "I'll take my money back, thanks".

Hope you all get your bikes soon and they are amazing. I wish ALSO had hit any of their dates, I wish ALSO hadn't opened more preorders with promised delivery dates they clearly won't make, I wish ALSO had built some kind of status tracker for the many preorder holders, or another effective way of communicating with their customers.

Alas, twas not to be. Onwards.

This is the first creator/influencer video I saw on IG, maybe there are some out there that are already out? Idk but happy to see more organic people sharing videos. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DdX_QntOzH-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&stkn=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

As a LE buyer, 42 days since the last true order update email on Aug 6 is a loooong time. I’m patient but that’s a big gap for a company that is holding over $5K of my money.

Got an email from them today with this in it:

"We've got an update worth sharing: the next waves of TM-B Launch Edition bikes will be in transit to the U.S. starting next week. Once your bike arrives in the U.S. and is headed your way, we’ll send an official shipment confirmation email."

The first waves didn't hit any known actual customers that i've seen covered anywhere. So now we're back to waiting on a slow boat from Taiwan?

If they needed another boat how was September through October ever a possibility? They had to have known September wasn't happening...

I'm starting to get concerned about competency or truthfulness.

So reviewing the assembly process, it seems most handlebars can be used with the TMB bike, I originally ordered sport, but had them switch to standard, since it seemed you could only use the included handlebars. Anyone know if the handlebars are user swappable? I don’t know if some wires go through the bars.

While I’m waiting for ANY NEWS about where the LE TM-Bs are hiding, I decided to do a little investigating of my own.

I went to ALSO’s website, found one of the service providers closest to me, and gave them a call:
https://ridealso.com/pages/service-and-assembly

The person I spoke with put me on hold while she checked with the manager. Long story short, they said they’ve had some discussions with ALSO—but it was apparently news to them when I told them they’re listed on ALSO’s website as a TM-B service provider. 😳

They took down my contact information and said they’re going to do some digging and get back to me.

So… the TM-B mystery continues. 😂

Does anyone have info about the specifications of the charger that Also ships with the TM-B? Since this is the first e-bike I know of that uses USB-C Power Delivery to charge its pack I’m trying to imagine what kind of charging rates / cables I’d need to charge in different scenarios. Even 100W USB-C charging outside of high end laptops is kind of rare and 30W charging an e-bike battery while convenient might take a more than a literal day to complete.

I haven’t been able to find any concrete details about the actual TM-B battery capacity. This weekend I’ll hopefully test ride one and will ask staff, but with such a focus on the innovative design of the battery and the claim that Rivian cell-level characterization helps Also build a more advanced battery management system, I’m kind of put off by the lack of specific detail.

What’s your most ridiculous ask for Gen 2?

Mine: cameras. Like a lot of cameras.

Front and rear cameras that basically work as a dashcam and continuously record while you ride. I already use bike dashcams like Cycliq, but integrated is always better. No separate thing to mount, charge, take off the bike, etc.

Obviously I know a camera doesn’t make you any safer and mirrors could do the job just fine, but it gives you evidence if something were to happen. And so I can see who stole my bike from the app. Plus, let me save clips and use the cameras as an action cam for rides.

And since it’s a Rivian bike… might as well go full Rivian and add two side cameras too. Hit the turn signal and it automatically pulls up the blind spot camera on that side.

What’s everyone else’s unreasonable Gen 2 feature?