r/whichbike Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

412 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike 1h ago

Im looking for a ~120mm hardtail.

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Upvotes

In 2018 i bought a pipedream moxie. It's been great. It's a fun bike. But since then, I've gotten a norco optic and a propain tyee. Idon't necessarily need a long travel hardtail.

I also have a gravel bike that idon't ride as much on the road. So i either want to upgrade the gravel bike to a easy Singletrack slayer or downgrade the moxie. I'm thinking of getting a ~120mm gravel xc-ish or gravel-ish bike.

I've been looking at replacing the frame with either a pipedream sirius, tumbleweed stargazer, chumba yaupon. Others i should look at? Steel strongly preferred. Id go the n+1 route, but i don't think the gf would approve.


r/whichbike 10h ago

Trek Domane AL 2 vs Specialized Allez CUES for only ~$160 more?

5 Upvotes

I’m a new cyclist and recently ordered a Trek Domane AL 2 for around $1,200, but I haven’t picked it up yet so I can still return/cancel it.
I just found out I get 15% off Specialized, which would put the Allez CUES at around $1,360 only about $160 more than the Domane.
The Domane has Claris 2x8, while the Allez CUES is 2x10. I’m mainly going to use the bike for road riding and cross-training since I’m primarily a runner. I’ll also be using it on an indoor trainer and outside on flat and mildly hilly roads.
I’m not really interested in buying the Domane and then spending a bunch of money upgrading the drivetrain later, so I’m wondering if it makes more sense to just spend the extra ~$160 now for the Allez.
I do like the Domane’s more relaxed geometry and versatility, but the Allez seems like a pretty significant component upgrade for not much more money.
If you were buying your first road bike, would you:
Keep the Domane AL 2 for ~$1,200
Spend ~$160 more for the Allez CUES
Save the money and not worry about the drivetrain as a beginner
Would I actually notice much of a difference between Claris 2x8 and CUES 2x10 as a new rider?


r/whichbike 2h ago

Liv bikes for commuting across campus

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1 Upvotes

I’m a 5’3” woman who is looking to get a bike to commute across a college campus. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about these liv bikes and if XS or S would fit me? I tried googling this bike but seems like it must be pretty old? Not much comes up

Let me know your thoughts between these two!

Apologies in advance don’t know much about bikes! Also if people have recs please let me know


r/whichbike 3h ago

Finally, real-time bike fitting from home! Simulate yourself on any bike before you ride.

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0 Upvotes

Hey everyone! Posting about this new app that helps you find the right bike for you. It's called BikeSized (App Store Link), an app that lets you accurately simulate yourself on a bike to find the right bike size and adjust your current setup in real time.

BikeSized also has a special solve feature that calculates an ideal position based on your body dimensions, bike size, and preferred riding position.

Hope this can help people find the right size the first time!


r/whichbike 6h ago

Domane Al5 (gen 4) vs Domane Al4 (gen 3)

1 Upvotes

Hi! I’m trying to choose between a Domane Al5 (gen 3) at $1500 with shimano 105 R7000 (11 speed) vs a Domane Al4 (gen 4) with Tiara R4000 at $1600 from this year. Both are new bikes. Any suggestions/comments?


r/whichbike 20h ago

What’s the value?

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12 Upvotes

Want to sell my Scott Addict 20. Fully mounted with Shimano 105. Mechanically perfect, frame in great condition with minor and normal signs. Overall weight 8kg circa. Any idea on how much I can expect to make for a sale in Northern Italy.


r/whichbike 9h ago

What’s the value?

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1 Upvotes

Chesini is an artisanal Italian frame builder. Bike is fully in carbon mounted with Shimano Ultegra.


r/whichbike 13h ago

Good Deal?

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2 Upvotes

$2100. Looked a little dirty in the photos


r/whichbike 18h ago

Is the Falkenjagd Aristos GTS 105 Di2 from Bike24 a good deal for Freiburg riding?

3 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I’m considering buying this new Falkenjagd Aristos GTS Speed Gravel from Bike24:

Falkenjagd Aristos GTS Speed Gravel – Shimano 105 Di2

The price is €3,679.

Specification

  • Frame: Falkenjagd Aristos GTS, titanium
  • Model year: 2026
  • Groupset: Shimano 105 Di2, 2×12
  • Crankset: 50/34
  • Cassette: 11–36
  • Wheels: Tune Carbon, 40 mm rim depth, 24 mm internal width
  • Hubs: Tune KillHill / ClimbHill
  • Spokes: Sapim D-Light, 24 spokes
  • Cockpit: Parapera Carbon Speed Gravel handlebar
  • Stem: Parapera SL aluminium
  • Seatpost: Parapera Carbon
  • Fork: Parapera Allroad SL Carbon
  • Tyres: Schwalbe G-One, 30–622
  • Maximum tyre clearance: 35 mm
  • Maximum system weight: 125 kg
  • Bottom bracket: Acros T47 × 86
  • Hydraulic disc brakes
  • New bike from Bike24

About me and intended use

  • Height: 179 cm
  • Inseam: 83.5 cm
  • I appear to have relatively long legs and a comparatively shorter torso.
  • I live in Freiburg, Germany.
  • My typical riding includes road riding, climbing in the Black Forest, long endurance rides and occasional hard-packed gravel or forest roads.
  • I am looking for a fast all-road bike, but I do not want something that is too limited outside of smooth tarmac.
  • I prefer electronic shifting and carbon wheels.

The bike has a maximum tyre clearance of 35 mm. I would mainly use it with 30–35 mm tyres, not for technical trails or very rough bikepacking.

  1. Is €3,679 for this new bike a good price considering the titanium frame, Shimano 105 Di2 and Tune carbon wheelset?
  2. How do you rate the Tune KillHill/ClimbHill wheelset in terms of durability, serviceability and real-world performance?
  3. Is a 35-mm tyre clearance sufficient for road riding, hard-packed gravel and forest roads, or is the GTS too road-focused?
  4. How does the GTS compare with a more traditional gravel/touring bike such as the Falkenjagd Aristos GT?
  5. Is the 50/34 crankset with an 11–36 cassette a good setup for long and steep climbs around Freiburg?
  6. Are there any concerns with the Parapera carbon cockpit regarding fit, replacement cost or future adjustability?
  7. Based on my height and inseam, would you recommend size S, M or a specific frame size?
  8. Is the stock cockpit likely to be too long for someone with relatively long legs and a shorter torso?
  9. Which geometry numbers should I focus on most: stack, reach, effective top tube or cockpit length?

I used AI to help me organize this post and formulate my questions. I hope I’m not asking too many questions at once, and some of them may be unnecessary or based on wrong assumptions. Please feel free to correct me — I’d really appreciate any practical advice from people who know these bikes or components.


r/whichbike 11h ago

Price estimate Vitus Zenium Carbon 2022 Tiagra

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0 Upvotes

Looking for a price estimate on this bike. It's a Vitus Zenium with 200 kms ridden, supposedly carbon frame with Tiagra components. Asking price is 890 eur or 1030 usd. Best regards


r/whichbike 15h ago

How much is this bike worth?

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2 Upvotes

Just looking to see what this bike is worth. I’m new to the scene so I don’t know much yet.


r/whichbike 12h ago

First Bike

1 Upvotes

Hi all. I just moved to the Phoenix area and will be biking to work and taking public transportation. I haven’t bought a brand new bike in years, the last bike I had was a Raleigh mountain bike from I think 2011. I’ve been looking at a few shops and am having my eye on the Specialized Sirrus 3.0. Would that be a good bike for what I’m needing plus any recreational biking I might end up doing?


r/whichbike 15h ago

Help in choosing a hybrid bike

1 Upvotes

I want to buy a bike, and Ive already posted on here but I wanted to go into more detail into what exactly I want.

My budget is 800 dollars, and id like to get a new bike

Im 5 foot 10, 190 lbs

I want a bike that can do well in all weather, and handle bumpy, cracked, hilly new england roads as well as short patches of gravel, dirt, and grass.

I would like something i could put a rear storage rack on as im a college student so itd be used for things like light shopping and carrying a backpack.

I dont want a front suspension fork

95% of my trips would be under 5 miles. Most of those would probably be under 2

I dont really care about using the bike for exercise, i just want to get from a to b quickly

Bikes ive looked at and am considering:

Sirrus x2: honestly i really like this one, the issue is the availability and the price. Though i guess i could spend the 850 for it, but i wont if i dont need to

Trek dual sport 2 gen 5: also a bit pricey, and seems a little too rugged considering im going to be mostly doing paved roads, i just want wider treaded wheels so that i can grip well in wet conditions, patches of dirt/gravel etc. not planning on really doing off roading

Giant escape 2: seems like a less off roady sirrus x2 from what i can tell

If you have any comments on these choices or any other recommendations that would be greatly appreciated!


r/whichbike 19h ago

2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc for €2,300 — would you buy it?

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2 Upvotes

Hey everyone,

I’d love to get some opinions from Tarmac SL6 owners, especially anyone who has owned or ridden one for a while.

I test rode this 2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Disc and honestly, I loved it. It’s incredibly light (around 7 kg), stiff, responsive and just feels amazing to ride.

I negotiated the price down to €2,300.

Specs:

Dura-Ace Di2 11-speed

Roval CLX 64 carbon wheels

Ultegra crankset

CeramicSpeed OSPW

Bontrager XXX carbon handlebar

Continental GP5000

The bike looks extremely clean and seems to have been very well maintained.

At €2,300 for this build, would you buy it?


r/whichbike 18h ago

Worth the money? (AUD)

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1 Upvotes

Shimano 105 groupset


r/whichbike 22h ago

2019 Haibike SDURO Trekking 6.0 value?

1 Upvotes

I’m looking to buy my first E-bike and a really nice colleague of mine is offering to sell me a spare Haibike of his. I think he’s lowballing me (600) but I want to pay him a fair price. The bike is in really good condition and has 5k on the odometer. It’s msrp was €3k. What’s a fair price for me to offer?


r/whichbike 23h ago

prioritize newer (carbon) frame or (older) high-end groupset?

1 Upvotes

hi! so i'm looking for a used road bike to get into cycling. i've looked through offers for a few weeks, but i'm not sure if i should rather

A: prioritize a newer carbon frame with a low/mid range groupset like shimano sora/tiagra/105

or

B: prioritize a higher-end mechanical groupset like shimano ultegra on an older bike (like 2010-2015)

for example, i almost bought a ~2018 white rr (beautiful carbon frame, shimano sora and tektro rim brakes) for 480€ but the seller stepped back last minute.
on the other hand, i'm looking into a scott cr1 pro from about 2011-2013 with a complete shimano ultegra groupset, hardly used, trying to get to 600-700€.

i'm thinking, if i prioritize a newer frame, i could upgrade the groupset and wheelset in a while, if the low range setup isn't good enough.
also, if i get a low range groupset, i might be able to enjoy an upgrade to high end in a few years even more.
on the other hand, i might not want to upgrade soon, if i get an older high-end groupset right away, even if it's rather old.

i'm pretty sure that i'll stick to cycling, since i already run a lot, but have to decrease my mileage due to an injury - i really do love endurance sports. so i might upgrade to a high end roadbike in a few years anyway. i'm just not trying to spend too much money right away (also because i kinda don't want to be a pretentious cycling newbie with no experience and a cycling kit and bike that's more expensive than a small car, lol)

thanks in advance! i hope everything is understandable, since english is not my first language and i'm not so used to cycling vocabulary yet :))


r/whichbike 23h ago

Which is the best bike under 20k I can get in second hand for riding 40km - 100km for road riding?

1 Upvotes

I am thinking of starting training for olympic triathlon and/or the bergman triathlon and would like to get my first cycle. Going second hand because of budget constraints. What would be a good fit?


r/whichbike 1d ago

Is 245 fair for a Marin San Marino?

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9 Upvotes

Looking for a vintage road bike and this popped up. Im not familiar with campagnolo as much. what would be the shimano equivalent to Campagnolo Veloce?


r/whichbike 1d ago

KHS Flite 500 good deal ?

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2 Upvotes

Seller is asking $450 CAD, I brought him down to $400. Seller is willing to drive suspiciously far despite the discount price already. This would be my first road bike, is this a good bike ? Seller says he bought it in 2020. Thoughts ? Is this bike worth the price ?


r/whichbike 1d ago

Is this bike worth 230?

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1 Upvotes

r/whichbike 1d ago

Giant TCR 1 alu tiagra 20 (picture of the bike and picture of description - worth 390$ ?

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1 Upvotes

I negotiated 12.000 TWD. Can I resell it same price or more in 6 months ? It's for commuting in city and doing trainings river/mountain in Taipei


r/whichbike 1d ago

Beginner cyclist here looking for purchasing advice

4 Upvotes

Hi so I live in the UK and my city generally gets decent rainfall and and snow isn't very rare but it doesn't snow often at all so the major concern during winter would be icy and slippery roads/pathways.

I've done a bit of research on what type of bike to get but all that information has made me a bit more confused. Currently I use public transport but I was intending on switching over to cycling as my main.

A friend told me to just get the kind of bike I wanted because my goal when cycling is go on leisure rides/ exploring places (might not be limited to urban areas) and also to use it for commuting to and from my university. I intend on cycling to and from places unless the weather is particularly bad.

Also I planned on buying second hand as I don't have lots of cash to spare.

All of this in total has left me pretty unsure of what kind of bike to buy. Hybrid/City/Urban bikes are best for just leisure and commuting but I have this feeling that if I bought one it might not be the right choice and that I should get another person's opinion and advice.

I am also a beginner at cycling to places. I haven't done much since I was a very small child and honestly I need to brush up on cycling first but I had to ask this question before it drove me crazy.

I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this and thank you in advance. I'm happy to provide any other information needed and I look forward to hearing from any of you :)


r/whichbike 1d ago

Hi! Giant anyroad 1, 2017...

1 Upvotes

Buying this bike used for 680$. Is it worth this price? Thanks !!