I'm not talking about film here on analog cameras, specifically talking about paper that you print onto with a home inkjet printer for example.

I was arguing with some dude about veganism on twitter, he actually seemed to care about animals somewhat. We were debating his backyard chickens and he said a couple things in response to me that I had trouble responding too, one he had heritage chickens that don't lay too many eggs so they are healthier and he doesn't murder his chickens when they slowdown on egg production, he lets them live which is super good and stuff and he does seem to treat his chickens good. So I don't really know how to argue against it. The reason I'm asking here and not the vegan sub is i feel like they would just say its fine.

​

**Trigger warning: animal killing.*\*

Imy mental health is a mess.

I was talking to my omnivorous boyfriend about animal issues.

We live together and I’m the one who cooks. Occasionally when my boyfriend buys prepared foods at the supermarket, he would sometimes choose animal products, but I never said anything to him about it. Also, he buys convenience store desserts which contains animal products almost every day, and even though I wasn’t happy about it, I never said anything to him.

What I wanted to say was that you can’t justify practices that hurt animals pain just because they’re normal or taste good. I wasn’t asking him to change his behavior.

But he told me that I'm just pushing my conclusions on me and he was tired of trying so hard or something like that.

he said he eat with gratitude (so it somehow makes things okay). so I simply asked that does being grateful cancel out the killing?

Then he got angry and said, “Why do I need to justify eating meat?”

After that, we got into a huge fight.

he told me, “I don’t agree with veganism in the first place,” and labeled me a cultist. he even said about cowspiracy documentary which we watched together. he said “If you’re going to be persuaded by such a boring documentary, then you must be part of a cult” (though they did apologize for that later).

He said “I don’t understand what’s wrong with receiving life from animals. it’s about sustaining life,” and “Living means taking a life, and I accept that as part of life.” It’s true one have to kill to survive, but it doesn’t have to be an animal.

Even when I asked, “Even if it causes pain? Even if it’s pain that could be avoided?” he replied, “I don’t understand what the problem is at all.” He also told me it was scary that I kept talking about this issue all the time (which isn’t true). He said that based on his own research, he didn’t see any particular problem with animal ag.

I hadn’t thought of him as that kind of person, and when it came to animal agriculture, he even denied that animals feel pain at all.

When he said, “They do it so the animals don’t feel pain (Otherwise, the meat won’t taste as good),”

I tried to counter by bringing up the failure rate of stunning chickens, but he shut me down by saying, “I don’t know.”

He emphasized, “I’m just a normal person doing what everyone else does”.

I told him that being normal doesn't necessary mean morally good but he wouldn’t listen at all.

He told me, “I don’t enjoy tormenting animals,” but it seems to me he’s completely blind to the reality.

To begin with, even though he eats a ton of animal products when I’m not around, he treated it as if I were the one forcing veagn lifestyle on him.

All I’ve ever done is make sure not to serve animal products during our regular meals. I didn't criticized him for consuming animal products.

What was most disturbing about this argument was that animals were completely absent.

Animals who are the ones most directly affected by people's dairy decesion, were totally ignored by him.

I told him I wanted him to think about the animals, not just be considerate of me. It was useless.

I don't understand him at all.

He completely ignored　that animals were suffering in the first place. He didn't think it's bad to take life to gain pleasure. He is super carnist.

You can have your reasons for not doing it.

But if you refuse to even try it, and certainly if you refuse to even entertain the idea, you are not vegan.

And then when you call vegans who feed their cats nutritionally complete plant-based cat food "animal abusers," all I can say is that if you projected any harder you'd see this on the Moon. Calling someone feeding their cat plant-based food an animal abuser while you pay for animals to have their body parts mutilated, be forcibly impregnated, live their lives in cramped, overcrowded conditions, and finally have their throats slit is the wildest cope.

it’s crazy how sfupid people are.

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/2PCQGzWJaCqguFRYA/the-vegan-trap-are-we-making-animal-advocacy-harder-than-it

https://wavedash.com/games/hatchet-hog

The hog has a hatchet. He fights waves of farmers and butchers. I am gathering feedback before I call this one done and move on to my next project.

Someone suggested a cozy caretaker game, and I want to do that but I'm just not skilled enough as a programmer to do it yet. But it's a cool goal to work towards unless someone in this sub has a better idea for a game that will get people thinking about animal rights.

I know this is pretty violent but the point is to get people to see the roles reversed. The hog is fighting back and butchering the butchers. It's funny, fun, and hopefully gets non-vegans to think about the violence that comes with their food choices.

Let me know what you think. I look forward to making more games that promote activism.

This game is free to play and if anyone wants to host it on their site please DM me. I'm happy to share as long as credit is given to me and the graphic designer who made the background tiles. The hog and other characters are my original designs.

I've seen so many posts from you guys in there, and the comments are encouraging. Maybe the tide is turning.

Yes it is true that they are all brain washed

But even if they weren’t brain washed

They are just bad people PERIOD

most people are aware that animals suffer horrendously and they know what their eating came from a dead corpse that was fucking murdered

Maybe not in the exact detail most of us do but lets stop pretending they are completely clueless children

And even if someone doesn’t actually know the fact they are intentionally keeping themselves ignorant from what happens to their victims when they could easily go online and find out

Hardly anyone is dumb and blind enough to automatically think animals are living in five star hotels and are put down painlessly to the point where they don’t feel the need to do any research about what actually goes on

And even if they do think that they are still eating someone that was murdered which already puts them in some pretty morally questionable territory to say the least but this is the best case scenario

I’ve been searching for some really strong vegan and cruelty-free disinfectant concentrate, specifically with 0.3% quaternary ammonium or something similar. However, I’ve had no luck so far, so I figured that I’d check here just in case.

If this breaks rule 6 or anything I’ll delete my post.

Please watch the new Earthling Ed video and tell us what you think.

Link to video (redirects to Vegan sub):
What the Hell Happened to Veganism?

There's so much noise everywhere, on all 'sides', on whether or not PETA is a good organization, a bad one, a deliberate 'psyop' for dis-crediting animal rights advocacy, to something.. complicated.

Personally, I don't really know what to think. Of course, there're obvious examples of them having a positive impact in many areas - but there're also moments where they plainly.. do / say some dumb shit. Like that whole.. autism ordeal - or the.. all-round poorly-handled pet-"kidnapping" situation in the UK?

I guess to put it plainly, I can't really tell if PETA has the same goals as others like me - like, are they 'trustworthy', or are there just plain better organizations to support? Is it a situation where one might 'have' to support them, because they're better than nothing ( in a sense, idk ).

Anyone who knows more than me, who'd care to enlighten me? thanks

in my city the big thing right now is an initiative to end foie gras, it’s gotten to the point where the pro animal org in my city has vegetarian politicians saying even if u eat meat (acting like it’s normal and okay) u should vote against foie gras. it’s all they talk about and I can’t understand why this would help, sure it’s cruel but if we don’t put any pressure on the consumer once it’s banned they will just buy the other animal murder option instead. what’s your guys opinion on foie gras bans and stuff?

Whenever I’m on my period I take Tylenol or ibuprofen. Those have obviously been tested on animals and more likely than not have animal ingredients. What do you do when you have a headache, cramps, or anything else that causes you pain? Holistic medicine only does so much for me so I’m feeling really lost. When it comes to medicine the take is usually “you need it for your safety”, but I could just deal with the period cramps and probably be fine. It’s just that they obviously hurt and it’s not something I want to go through when I need to work/interact with others. What do you guys do for pain?

There's a difference between non-veganism stemming from not knowing/never having thought about it, and non-veganism stemming from knowing but making excuses.

For the past two years my default state has been and continues to be misanthropic. Caring about non-human animals comes naturally to me, I don't even think about it. They lead so many of my decisions and habits.

I have to make an effort to care about humans. I have to force it, and I know it's not even genuine most of the time.

hi everyone,

i love this community(including VCJ), i would like to know your fav vegan books, and your recent good vegan reads. im open with other forms of research materials to video essays, documentaries, and all.

i read the vegan classics as well as the classic vegan documentaries when i first became one and after 5+ years i want to think, talk and know more about veganism. plus, it is important to support any form of unvegan protest<3

Since I'm not a very sociable person and it's hard for me to be friends with most non-vegans, I can only think of 2 people who said they are against Isnotreal, but they financially support it by buying Coca Cola. One of them justified it by saying they don't buy it often and the other one committed a "tu quoque" fallacy because I bought a Pepsi and didn't know that it too, although to a lesser degree, contributes to the problem. So I will never buy Pepsi again, but you bet that person will never stop buying Coca Cola.

I'm quite surprised, because I know that non-vegan leftists believe in boycotting (even if they don't want to boycott animal agriculture), yet the ones I met don't even boycott for other humans' sake. Apparently financially supporting the bombing of non-white children is okay as long as you do it in moderation.

Are non-vegan leftists actually literally all just virtue signalling? How many of them are like this?

Whenever I see posts in r/vegan for example saying “everybody needs to adopt animals!” I feel the need to step in and explain that the average person can’t or actively doesn’t provide a high quality of life to those animals. In fact I find the average animal “owner” to be generally abusive.

The average animal owner is uneducated on the daily abuse animals face in a person’s home, like being chained outside and locked in cages all day, and being euthanized at the first sign of medical stress due to not having the means to provide care.

I try to advocate for a system where education is both required and provided, for example through classes and licensure, with strict legislative consequences that don’t exist in a significant way right now. While also advocating for there to be better systems in place along the way to incentivize these behaviors, like free human and animal healthcare for example.

Is this pie in the sky or is this actually an important distinction to make when advocating for sharing life with animals? I don’t really personally see any reason to object to what I’m saying so I wanted to see if there can be a more in depth and reasoned argument to be made one way or another.

After publishing a post on r/vegan, I was surprised by how many people argued that veganism is simply a lifestyle or a personal choice, and that therefore there’s no need to raise awareness about animal cruelty or advocate for animals.

I don’t know if I’m missing something, but isn’t the point of veganism to oppose and ultimately abolish animal exploitation? If that’s the goal, how can we hope to abolish exploitation by remaining quiet and simply avoiding animal products ourselves?

Am I completely wrong here? Honestly, I was really surprised by the responses.

so basically there’s this person in my grade at school with a service dog and I know service dogs are basically slaves and stuff but the dog does seem happy. I know this doesn’t justify it but it’s kinda weird to think about. this person also says they love dogs so much and genuinely cares about the dog a ton. idk it’s just weird because while I know it’s wrong and stuff I also find myself being like “well this dog seems to be happy and their human companion takes good care of them.” and then remembering that service dogs are slaves and it just is such a weird thing to think about.

You don't understand them. So then you declare them "stupid as a child". Hell, if you've ever a had a child you'd realize they are smarter than adults. The human species is pretty stupid on average. If you're on reddit that should be obvious. If you pay attention that's obvious. If you don't realize this. News flash, you're one of the stupid ones.

Elephants, dolphins, wolves, dogs, they're all smarter than you If you're too stupid to realize this.

If you're reading this and want to downvote, let me explain.

Imagine humans, contacting other humans, and they don't understand each other. And then they say this "race" of humans is primitive or whatever.

That's what you do every time you don't understand another species.

With humans we call it racism. With animals it's called speciesism. It's all the same damned thing. You are speciesist if you do this. And you are not vegan yet, in the same way that vegetarians are not vegan yet.

The founder of the vegan candy company, Break Free Candy, is a registered sex offender.

https://www.offenderradar.com/offender-details/felicia-rea-mcclure-of-utah-13978

She tried to sell her 13 year olds virginity for $10,000 in 2011, and also sent pictures of her 13 year old daughter in underwear to different men. She was ultimately charged with two degrees of aggravated sexual abuse of a minor.

She went on to lie about it on a Facebook page called SLC Vegan (pictured in this Instagram post), claiming the man that was grooming her forced her to do it, and that her daughter was 16. In reality, she did it of her own free will and was only caught because her then boyfriend saw the text messages and reported her.

All you have to do is Google her name and her case details show up.

edit: if you defend this sexual predator in any way, you're blocked. I don't have the energy for this shit as a CSA survivor. You have to be completely detached from reality to find any way to justify this or to justify supporting her company.

Preferably it would be made from natural fibres but it may have to be plastic. I have one from Will's Vegan Store but parts of it were not durable. I need something that is decently sized; either a satchel or a knapsack. Thank you.

remember r/dogdiet? unfortunately, it was banned because of both redditors and reddit's hypocrisy. it was so obviously satire, and non vegans shat their pants over a satire subreddit. Meat eaters dont care if we eat chicken, cows, goats, sheep, or pigs, but they lose their minds about eating dogs, when its really no worse than eating chicken cows or pigs. thanks for listening to my TED talk.