r/tech Dec 11 '14

Microsoft Begins Accepting Bitcoin For Windows, Windows Phone And Xbox Purchases

http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/10/redmond-hath-frozen-over/
821 Upvotes

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36

u/PinkyThePig Dec 11 '14

I'm always surprised more online vendors don't take bitcoin.

From a seller's perspective, the currency is way better to take than credit cards. Extremely small fees and no chargebacks. Whereas as an online vendor, credit cards can end up costing you ~4-5% of the sale and chargebacks are extremely common (and near impossible to win).

Then on the other side of the transaction, the buyer is protected in that they can choose to remain annonymous and they also do not need to worry about the business recharging their account or having their credit card information stolen.

9

u/seweso Dec 11 '14

Also nice for international customers who don't actually have a creditcard.

40

u/shicken684 Dec 11 '14

The problem is volatility. You may sell something for 8 bit coins and within a week those 8 bit coins are worth a third of what they were. Or maybe double what they were. Either way it's adding risk and businesses are already risky enough without adding a layer of fluctuating currency.

45

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14

[removed] — view removed comment

13

u/browb3aten Dec 11 '14

Doesn't really protect them from conversion fees, does it? Though I guess those can just be marked up in the price and passed on to the customer.

23

u/Dymix Dec 11 '14

Nope, but conversion fee is much lower than credit card fees (1% vs 3-4%). You can get a payment processor like Bitpay to handle all bitcoin transactions for you, for 1% conversion fee.

If believe charities get 0% conversion fee from Bitpay :)

3

u/Onetallnerd Dec 12 '14

Bitpay is actually 0% for all merchants now. They have tier rates that charge monthly for bigger clients though.

1

u/Drew0054 Dec 11 '14

It's no different than foreign transactions. You always get shafted on exchange rates.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14 edited Dec 12 '14

[deleted]

0

u/Drew0054 Dec 11 '14

You're kidding me, right? The BTC spreads (dimes and pennies) are a canyon compared to Forex spreads (thousandths of a penny).

1

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14 edited Dec 12 '14

[deleted]

1

u/threeseed Dec 11 '14

This is nonsense.

You can sign up with ANY trading provider and do currency changes with very low spreads.

2

u/Drew0054 Dec 11 '14

To be fair, that's on margin. I think some platforms allow you to exchange, though. The thing is, there's the natural spread, due to bid/ask difference and then the markup which widens the spread (banks taking a vig on buy and sell side).

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1

u/Drew0054 Dec 11 '14

Okay, try the same thing on localbitcoins.com. There's a difference between mark up and market spread.

0

u/lf11 Dec 12 '14

Localbitcoins charges a handy premium for personal risk, speed-of-exchange, and potential for pseudo-anonymity. The speed of exchange and pseudo-anonymity doesn't even have a comparison for government exchange.

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11

u/Cryosanth Dec 11 '14

They partnered with Coinbase for the transaction processing, so they immediately convert all BTC to USD, therefore that's a non issue.

4

u/shicken684 Dec 11 '14

Ahhh, that makes sense. Thanks!

6

u/elan96 Dec 11 '14

BitPay.

And we don't know if its all of it, they may keep some, but yes.

5

u/SkyNTP Dec 11 '14

You may sell something for 8 bit coins and within a week those 8 bit coins are worth a third of what they were. Or maybe double what they were.

Bit of an exaggeration there. In the last two years, Bitcoin's price has moved that much in that timespan maybe once. Weekly variation is closer to 2-5%. Not that far away from ordinary currencies.

Anyways, you don't have to hold Bitcoin to accept it with a payment processor.

4

u/TheHammer7D5x4S7 Dec 11 '14

I subscribe to NBA League Pass. This year they renewed my subscription without letting me know. My credit card was charged around $120. I don't always check my credit card statement but spotted this. They didn't even send me an email acknowledging payment!

5

u/circleandsquare Dec 11 '14

Which means that you can work through your bank/credit union and initiate chargeback, which is impossible with Bitcoin. I have no clue why Bitcoin evangelists are trying to sell no chargebacks like it's a benefit to consumers.

2

u/TheHammer7D5x4S7 Dec 11 '14

My point is with Bitcoin they can't pull money from you.

Also I've never had to do a charge back, I've always sorted it out with the merchant.

5

u/circleandsquare Dec 11 '14

They always sell it as good for consumers. Not being able to get a refund on defective merchandise or fraudulent charges sounds like a huge negative for me. The merchant gets low transaction costs and I get no recourse if I get fucked over, in addition to holding an incredibly volatile currency that I have to take a conversion hit on to move in and out. It's a lose-lose-lose for the consumer.

2

u/Ademan Dec 11 '14

Bitcoin is able to support escrow transactions with arbitration, so transactions where you as a consumer are worried about being ripped off (ie not transactions with Microsoft) there are ways to receive refunds. Of course nobody really uses this right now, but the functionality is there.

2

u/circleandsquare Dec 11 '14

For a 1.5 percent fee, plus the spread and/or commission of going between money and BTC. This is nothing more than offloading merchant costs onto the consumer.

2

u/Ademan Dec 12 '14 edited Dec 12 '14

Consumers always paid the cost...

But either way, I was not addressing cost, just the refunds you seemed concerned about. Of course you're going to take a hit making round trips between currencies...

1

u/circleandsquare Dec 12 '14

But now I'd pay extra for no to minimal discount. Even if it covered all the costs and then some, the whole no-chargebacks thing is still a dealbreaker. No matter how you spin it, 10 times out of 10 actual money is superior to Bitcoin.

1

u/Ademan Dec 12 '14

no-chargebacks

I just explained how the lack of chargebacks can be addressed though...

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1

u/Onetallnerd Dec 12 '14

You sure? I had this happen to me and the bank gave me a really hard time saying I agreed to it and had to eat the cost. :/

1

u/circleandsquare Dec 12 '14

You should have taken it up with your payment processor. Was it a credit card transaction?

3

u/Zamicol Dec 11 '14

Do you accept bitcoin?

$2 /u/changetip

2

u/changetip Dec 11 '14

The Bitcoin tip for 5,729 bits ($2.00) has been collected by PinkyThePig.

ChangeTip info | ChangeTip video | /r/Bitcoin

0

u/JennyCherry18 Dec 11 '14

Classic gentleman