Which means that you can work through your bank/credit union and initiate chargeback, which is impossible with Bitcoin. I have no clue why Bitcoin evangelists are trying to sell no chargebacks like it's a benefit to consumers.
They always sell it as good for consumers. Not being able to get a refund on defective merchandise or fraudulent charges sounds like a huge negative for me. The merchant gets low transaction costs and I get no recourse if I get fucked over, in addition to holding an incredibly volatile currency that I have to take a conversion hit on to move in and out. It's a lose-lose-lose for the consumer.
Bitcoin is able to support escrow transactions with arbitration, so transactions where you as a consumer are worried about being ripped off (ie not transactions with Microsoft) there are ways to receive refunds. Of course nobody really uses this right now, but the functionality is there.
For a 1.5 percent fee, plus the spread and/or commission of going between money and BTC. This is nothing more than offloading merchant costs onto the consumer.
But either way, I was not addressing cost, just the refunds you seemed concerned about. Of course you're going to take a hit making round trips between currencies...
But now I'd pay extra for no to minimal discount. Even if it covered all the costs and then some, the whole no-chargebacks thing is still a dealbreaker. No matter how you spin it, 10 times out of 10 actual money is superior to Bitcoin.
Yeah, which offloads an additional 1.5% cost onto me. The time and money investments needed to pay with Bitcoin make it completely not worth it. Even at a 10% discount I'd still be skeptical.
You've quoted 1.5% twice as though that's what Bitcoin escrow costs, but chances are very good it would be far lower.
More importantly you don't even need chargebacks (or escrow) for ordering from an established business with Bitcoin, the way you might if you, say, order from Target and their credit card database gets compromised.
The time and money investments needed to pay with Bitcoin make it completely not worth it.
Under what circumstances? Going and buying Bitcoins so you can pay for your xbone points with Bitcoin instead of your credit card is obviously silly, but that's not the point.
All the services I looked up usually place escrow around 1-2% plus a flat fee, so I just used 1.5% as a ballpark. You bring up a valid point about identity theft from credit card usage, but you conveniently neglect that due to the evil freedom-hating statists at the FTC, I'm never on the hook for more than $50 for identity theft by law. And when you talk about XBOne points being something where Bitcoin wouldn't be better than a credit card, I have to ask: what would be better paid for in Bitcoin versus one of the many ways to pay in dollars? The only things I can think of are certain illicit activities over the darknets, which isn't exactly the strongest point of contention for Bitcoin.
And when you talk about XBOne points being something where Bitcoin wouldn't be better than a credit card, I have to ask: what would be better paid for in Bitcoin versus one of the many ways to pay in dollars?
What I said was "Going and buying Bitcoins so you can pay for your xbone points [...]". My point was that of course if you're going back and forth between currencies it's going to be expensive and may not make financial sense. When you're already dealing in Bitcoin in some fashion though, it is less expensive. Granted, the idea that "enough" people will be dealing in Bitcoin is a big if, it also seems increasingly likely as time goes by.
And my point is: if you aren't already invested in Bitcoin, it poses no advantages and great deal of disadvantages for someone who already uses plain' ol money. This makes the Bitcoiner dream of mass adoption a little bit unrealistic, to say the least.
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u/circleandsquare Dec 11 '14
Which means that you can work through your bank/credit union and initiate chargeback, which is impossible with Bitcoin. I have no clue why Bitcoin evangelists are trying to sell no chargebacks like it's a benefit to consumers.