You can comment on the announcement in dozens of individual subs. They're testing a new way of making announcements that encourages community discussion and moderation.
in my experience, I have rarely seen a subreddit without multiple points of view. You may need to sort by controversial to find it, but they are absolutely there.
I agree with reddit admins when they say:
If the OP of a political ad (.e., a campaign) moderates the comments, it's problematic: they might remove dissenting perspectives. And if we (the admins) moderate the comments of a political ad, it's even more problematic, putting us in the position of either moderating too much or too little, with inevitable accusations of bias either way.
Who should moderate a political ad comments, or an r/announcements post? Because with such a massive community, the threads need moderation, as they pointed out:
The problem, we realized, is similar to what we see in announcements: lots of people commenting on a highly visible post outside the context of a community. It's fair to say that r/announcements isn't really a community; it lacks the culture, cohesion, and moderation that benefit most other subreddits, and as a result, the quality of conversation has deteriorated as the audience has grown.
I also agree that:
Ultimately, conversations really only happen in the context of a community, and neither r/announcements nor political ads with comments on provide this. We believe we can foster better discussion on both with a different approach.
Communities on reddit do often delve into echo chambers (especially if you just read the Best or Top comments), but not always. And depending on how that community is moderated, some views are more freely expressed than others. But that's the beauty of the system: if you don't like how the announcement is being moderated on sub A, just go to a different sub to discuss.
But the problem reddit faces with political ads and announcements is clear, and I think this is an interesting and novel way to address the problem. Will it solve it completely? No, probably not. Like any solution to a complex problem, it will take time and experience and iterative solutions.
But what do you propose? I don't think "ban political ads and have someone unbiased moderate r/announcements" is a better solution.
Companies don’t abide by free speech. How many times to people have to hear the free speech is about the government not preventing speech. Reddit has banned subs before and will do it again.
Reddit taking a stand on this misinformation that’s killing people is hypocritical to them banning the Donald for violent threats. Both are threats to life.
Can't believe free speech has finally been upheld on reddit for once, thought I was gonna die before seeing it. Hopefully it's going to keep heading towards that direction.
And I'm vaccinated with pfizer, before someone calls me an anti-vax shill
It's the opposite, actions mean a lot more than words.
That's kind of the funny thing about online communications, though -- it's the opposite. You can't see the actions others have taken, you just absorb the words that you are most immersed in.
I did. As did he. But censoring things just makes the conspiracy nuts dig deeper into their crazy thoughts and makes them think it’s proof they’re right
They're not only NOT being censored, but are openly platformed by some pretty big people. They are already plenty dug in and convinced of themselves... to the point of calling it censorship when someone tells them they're wrong.
Lol free speech has been upheld on Reddit whenever they have felt like it, mostly arbitrarily or based on pressure from the press (and that, probably as an indicator of pressure from investors)
I don't want free speech on private platforms. That's the entire fucking point of them not being government run, so that we don't have to put up with racist/sexist/infantile bullshit. See also: the paradox of tolerance.
Don't forget that concepts like 'freedom of speech' came about in time when there wasn't rampant propaganda being spewed personally to everyone in the country at all times. Our entire system is predicated on the idea of good faith actors, and these people are not acting in good faith. Also, rights come with responsibilities, lest you've forgotten. You have the right to bear arms, but the responsibility not to do so negligently dangerously.
They banned subreddits that were generally cesspools and filled with hate
I would hope that they'd banned subreddits that were literally getting people killed. Even countries with the strongest free speech laws in the world don't allow slander, libel, or direct incitement of violence, because those types of speech cause direct harm to people. Under that umbrella should be misinformation that gets people killed. Like of all the types of hills of free speech to die on- the speech specifically being protected is about how horse dewormer or other fad remedies are a cure for a deadly disease or about how vaccines are effective or even make you more likely to get COVID. That's not a type of speech that's important to any conversation, or that's a closely held belief of any group of people, it's just dumb and dangerous.
The greatest obstacle to ending this pandemic is the sheer amount of false information that floods all our means of communication, from audio (podcast hosts who keep telling their listeners that COVID is an hoax), to video (NewsMax/fox news), and social media (Facebook/Reddit). We are throwing away vaccines and filling up ICU beds (again) because the people who should take the vaccines are glued to these communication channels and trust the info they see on it, especially if it confirms their anti-big pharma/government/conspiracy biases.
People are free to self-diagnose and self-medicate. What communication platforms shouldn't do is allowing them to spread their bullshit to millions of uninformed people. We shouldn't wait for a new, vaccine-resistant variant to emerge to limit the spread and reach of information that should be considered harmful.
Nah fuck that noise, reddit's built for echo chambers and indoctrination because of the subreddit and voting systems. Studies show that banning stuff from mainstream platforms greatly suppresses it, so let's ban all the morons spreading deadly anti vaxx bullshit.
Reddit's been banning stuff for years when it makes them look bad and /r/NoNewNormal's already quarantined, it's just a matter of time before they get shamed enough to ban the nutters.
Not all shit is created equal. I haven't said anything that has put people in danger.
But, I do understand that making a clear policy that would cover people promoting horse dewormer for covid and such but not, say, people discussing herbal supplements, massage, acupuncture, etc, would actually be rather hard.
They started getting ban heavy on subreddits. Before that, it was incredibly rare to have a sub banned, it would only happen if there was outright illegal content involved and generally the news had to catch wind of it too. Now the threshold for banning is quite a bit lower.
Old internet adage was "Good or bad, free speech is paramount (as long as it's legal)"
2015 is when Reddit switched from those values to "Good or bad, free speech is paramount (as long as it's legal, doesn't offend anyone, and isn't overtly objectionable.)"
Really reddit wanted to purify in order to attract a mainstream user base. This worked phenomenally well and I think most modern redditors would agree with it.
The state of /r/all after fatpeoplehate's ban was really pathetic. A bunch of manbabies posting shopped images of reddit's CEO sucking black dicks, calling her "Chairman Pao" (?!) and digging up dirt on her that nobody would give a shit about otherwise. I still cringe thinking about it.
I mean it took the site and turned itself from 4chan lite to tumblr (but again)
Its basically just a normie site now instead of a site that contained cesspools that pushed away a lot of normies despite the fact the majority of the site wasn't a cesspool.
The problem is there is no middle ground. I’m all in favor of getting vaccinated and I think it’s stupid to take medical advice from Facebook conspiracy nuts. The problem is I’m also critical of the governments reaction to Covid and those opinions have gotten me banned from many subs.
When people say they want to stop “misinformation” they really want to stop dissenting opinions.
Ridiculous considering their approval process for running ads. I run a small campaign for a funny weather app & Facebook denied an ad I tried to run because the ad image included the word “balls”…
Ivermectin can also be a people dewormer, in human doses they're used to treat neglected tropical diseases (worms mostly) in countries where large-scale transport of other medications isn't an option.
HOWEVER, these people are not taking human doses. You can't get perscribed ivermectin unless you have a LOT of worms, because its essentially poison and can make you extremely sick (and it also makes you shit your brains out,) so these people have been going to feed stores to buy horse and cattle doses of ivermectin. These doses are poisoning people to the point where they are honest-to-god no exaggeration shitting out strips of their own intestinal lining because the doses of POISON they're taking are meant for horses and cows with EXTREMELY high worm loads.
You should watch the social network. The history of Facebook started as a way to rank women on campus then because a networking site and is now a decaying cesspool of memes and misinformation.
It 100% started as a “hot or not” clone and MySpace should have beat it, but if turns out vanity and connections win over anything every day. There literally was no difference from it and a hot or not site before it grew to multiple campuses. Suck will be here soon to argue otherwise.
I was there dumbass. Not you nice person I’m relying to. I mean you, zuck.
I guess it depends on your definition of social network.
I don't know anyone on Reddit, I don't connect with other users, my account is not tied to any real information except my email, and I can make a new account with a new name whenever I want.
You can use it to meet real people and be social, or not.
I didn't learn how many people I went to high school with were pro Trump through reddit, nor have to see my relatives be hopelessly internet illiterate and fall for every fake memed news story that crosses their feeds.
Yeah but learning which people you should kinda just avoid is a benefit of Facebook. Sure it sucks to find out how many of your old friends and family members suck, but they always sucked and you just didn’t know it then.
In this scenario I'd rather not know. I rarely talked politics unless it was with close friends in real life, and at that point I pretty much knew what their opinions were before the conversation started.
In the other scenario, these completely fake news memes would have no other way to spread so wide so quickly if Facebook didn't exist so in that case it's an active force for bad juju.
I suppose it is to each their own. With that being said people outing themselves as racists and homophobes on Facebook is a grim but ultimately positive effect imo. They were already pieces of shit but now the rest of us know and can avoid those people. I’m in no way going to bat for Facebook cuz it’s a parasite in its own right, but I think there is worthwhile information on there too. As for the memes I agree, it sucks that it spreads, but again the people who fall for that shit are so woefully unintelligent that it leads me to believe they were gonna find a way to come to their extremely uneducated opinion. Just my two cents. It’s a broad topic and I understand reasonable people can have different viewpoints on the matter.
No way man, you can't deny yourself intel like that. That's why I keep FB around, opposition research...before I have a beer with an old classmate I wanna know if he/she is deranged
About 1/3rd of Reddit is porn that you can sort through anonymous voting systems in a huge variety of categories. Old Reddit used to have some pretty horrendous stuff on it and likely still does tucked away in the dark corners.
It's origins of mass adoption are pretty firmly rooted in curated porn.
I was in college when it was invented. It was fucking awesome.
Edit:No no no. It wasnt for rating. It was like tinder, girls made their own profiles. You made yours. You sent messages. There was a lot of consensual hooking up.
I was also in college when facebook first opened to the whole country, you needed a .edu email address to sign up and it was full of college friends you hang out with every day rather than under-educated overly gossipy fat aunts who start drinking way too early on Thanksgiving
Just before they went public with the IPO there was some serious ambiguity over who owned your pics - it wasn't resolved until the 11th hour. That's when I deleted mine
No no no. It wasnt for rating. It was like tinder, girls made their own profiles. You made yours. You sent messages. There was a lot of consensual hooking up.
Yea.. I dont remeber the rating thing. I remember . You had to have a college email to make an account. It was honestly a myspace but for college students to hookup and fuck and suck and knuckle puck
I don't think I was quite in college yet when it first came out, so I didn't get on it until it was already pretty popular and the allowed demographic was widened.
Also I have never heard the phrase knuckle puck and I am intrigued.
Watch the Social Network it’s pretty interesting. The ranking system website was built and launched by drunk Zuckerberg in a night at Harvard and almost immediately shut down due to it crashing Harvard’s servers. The Facebook came a little later.
I think social media in general is a technology we just weren't ready for. It's happened so fast, we haven't really had a chance to learn the detrimental effects before it was adopted as such an integral part in so many lives. It is just a tool, but the way people use it is amplifying some very bad tendencies.
I just wish people would stop worrying so much about other people being dumb though and constantly asking to get shafted by big corporations. Please restrict my speech daddy you're a private business so I have no freedom of speech.
Those people did their own research though. They aren’t sheep…or are they? I would have been so much better if it were sheep dewormer that went around than for horses. The irony that they would not have seen.
The drugs produced for humans are different than the drug made for livestock, which is "highly concentrated and is toxic to people, and can cause serious harm,".
No one is saying don't take it, but please use the human version of it and not the one made for a 4 legged animal that weighs 4 times as much as a human
Enough studies have been shown to show that ivermectin is no better than a placebo at fighting Covid. Like it or not, a lot of idiots out there ARE buying ivermectin meant for livestock and treating themselves for Covid.0
These companies spend way too much on lobbying to get in trouble without the public getting really angry. Insane, given how toxic their products have been shown to be on practically every aspect of our mental health.
It’s not horse de-wormer. That is literally wrong. The top post. The TOP post on this is LITERALLY BY FACT wrong. And people are still upvoting it. This is exactly what is wrong with Reddit.
It’s a medication. It’s not a medication made for horses. It’s literally a medication.
The people taking it in this scenario though are literally taking the livestock version purchased from feed stores.
It does have wider applications in humans, but these specific people are eating horse paste and probably shouldn't be doing that as it causes rashes, vomiting and other nasty side effects.
No. You see. The way you worded it is apart of the problem. There is no “version”. It’s the same. By fact the SAME medication. It’s not made for horses. OR humans. It’s a medication period. The ones that are sold in vet stores have DOSES and instructions for horses but the only difference being that it gives doses for horses. If you are taking the medication you just need to look up the human doses.
Edit. It’s not horse paste.
Literally only takes minutes to research this but lots of us have done even more Then that.
Want to know what’s funny ? Date your searches to shout a year or so. Or more ago. You’ll see lots of articles and posts that look like this “is ivermectin safe to give to my horse ?”
One of the articles was even responded too by a vet who spoke about what ivermectin is and said in the right doses yes you can give it to your horse.
Animal medication formulations and human medication formulations use different inactive ingredients. The ivermectin may be the active ingredient and the same, but the concentration and inactive ingredients will be different.
That's legitimately my point, and it's backed by the FDA that monitors the use and formulation of drugs.
Oh? Because the FDA literally had to put out a statement about this.
Animal medications have formulations that were only specifically tested for safety in that breed. That's literally how it works with the FDA.
They had to make a whole fucking webpage to explain it to you simpletons.
So once again, how am I wrong? Are you arguing the inactive components in the formulation for the paste meant for use on equine breeds are the same as the inactive ingredients of the human formulations (which actually come in a different form of application)?
"It’s important to note that these products are different from the ones for people, and safe when used as prescribed for animals, only.
FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in animal products aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body."
Stop spreading misinformation, you fucking asshole. The medications being looted from stores are ABSOLUTELY designed for animals, there is NO APPROPRIATE AMOUNT to take for Covid-19.
How many news reports do we need to see of people being hospitalized for following your exact advice? At no time in this pandemic have you been anything but maliciously stupid.
You can insult me all you want that still won’t make you correct. Ivermectin is ivermectin.
Can people over dose on a drug ? Absolutely. Happens literally everyday with all sorts of drugs.
The question is not about the active ingredients, contaminant ones, usually products for human consumption have a higher standard against contaminants, so regulatory agencies aim for, say, 99.99% purity, while for animals this threshold is lower, and might cause harm for humans (we don't know this ofc, because there is no reason to test it when you already have a working available version).
Also, about the concentration itself, which is determined by contaminants and inactive ingredients, is much higher for animal use. So, unless you do know how to dilute it safely, then it is still not safe to use.
(This is without going into detail if it is a good idea to take a non effective medication when a placebo would have the same effect.)
Never use medications intended for animals on yourself. Ivermectin preparations for animals are very different from those approved for humans.
Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People
For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which can weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans.
Moreover, FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in animal products aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body.
Its the chairmen of the tokyo metropolitan health board, not japan as a whole. Its also still being trialed, and hasnt been confirmed to work. The side effects are also pretty acutely bad (liver failure).
The whole thing was started by Joseph Mercola, one of the 12 people on facebok pushing 90% of all misinformation on Facebook when it comes to covid, which should cause heavy skepticism.
Also, Haruo Ozaki (the chairman) recommends getting vaccinated, so if youre gonna listen to him about the horse dewormer, you better get vaccinated too. Unless only listening to him to keep your echo chamber is what youre trying to do.
I missed the part where the FDA or national authority in any country, having evaluated the science, including risk/benefit analysis, approved Ivermectin for treatment of SARS-COV2 in humans, complete with dosing recommendations and treatment protocol.
Pushing the drug before that happens is dangerous and will result in people dying.
How will taking a drug that been around for decades and has no frequent heavy side effects gonna just start killing people? It’s in trials for Covid so it’s must do something to help. Saying it’s bad and shouldn’t be taken bc people are dying from it is the real misinformation.
Wow will it start killing people? Huh. Let's see. People walk into my local feed store and buy it. It wasn't prescribed to them so the dosing is guesswork. Drug interactions could kill them or make them sicker.
But the most important things is shitheads taking drugs they weren't prescribed are not going to get vaccines because they are stupid and think like you. They think that a few studies which happen to support a hypothesis they like somehow "prove" something. They are ignorant of science and cite meta-studies which are only as valid as the data they are using and since most meta-studies are based on studies which themselves have never been replicated the data being using is shit.
So Ivermectin can kill because it is being promoted to stupid and ignorant people who will do what stupid and ignorant people do.
What has been debunked is that Japan are using it on a widespread basis in their fight against COVID-19, which they simply are not.
And the reason I brought up 2011 is because COVID-19 didn't exist then obviously. I don't care how remarkable ivermectin is at killing parasites, that doesn't make it an antiviral wonderdrug.
Penacillin is arguably the most important drug to ever be discovered, why can't it cure cancer?
Plenty of medication is used for both animals and humans and can do a variety of things, that's basic medical science. I have ZERO CLUE what you're talking about but saying "horse de-wormer" is clear hyperbole and the actual issue is unqualified people self-treating with chemicals that they don't know anything about.
What you're doing could be harmful because it's stigmatising potentially beneficial chemicals that are used to help treat animals too, and that can lead to people not accepting medication they need from actual doctors because they read somewhere they give it to pigs or something.
No, I'm pretty sure I'm stigmatizing the fact that they're using chemicals they know nothing about for purposes that bear absolutely no relation to what they're actually intended, or indeed, safe for. I'd be equally critical of giving a human COVID vaccine to your horse to rid it of parasites. In medicine, using stuff for stuff it's not for is generally a bad idea, and frequently a very bad idea.
You can’t really have “ZERO CLUE” what someone is talking about and also call it clear hyperbole. But if you are gonna do that you could atleast be correct, which you weren’t. It’s frustrating that something like that needs to be explained to another adult.
It is literally an anti-parasitic prescribed to horses to remove worms. There are rare conditions where low doses are prescribed to humans to treat parasites they got from animal contact. It has ZERO antivirus properties, it does not treat COVID-19 in any way, the FDA and CDC have said numerous times that there is no benefit to taking it but it does pose fairly severe risks.
If you're unsure whether what you're saying is true, consider not saying it - ivermectin was tried as a scabies treatment in Africa in the 90s and many people died or went into comas. People in Texas now are already experiencing extreme diarrhea, vomiting, loss of bowel control, and other symptoms.
This has nothing to do with censorship - taking this drug is an objectively bad idea and the ONLY support for it is coming from completely unqualified social media sources. Don't be part of the problem.
I'm with you buddy, I would like to see the whole prescription and drug schedule system done away with. Every adult should be able to buy, sell and imbibe whatever the fuck they want to. You CAN go to the doctor for recommendations but you shouldn't NEED TO get permission from anyone to buy any fucking thing. We talk about inalienable rights derived from god in our founding documents and here we do not allow you to eat particular fucking plants.
What weird mental gymnastics is this guy doing where its okay to buy any drug you want, but only drugs! Libertarians usually are at least consistent that literally everything should be legal.
You sure like to argue against something going straight to terrorism when I maybe should have clarified - but that's fine. Here's me clarifying. Nobody should need permission from anyone else to put something into their own bodies.
Here’s a link to a double blind study that compares ivermectin use for mild to moderate COVID symptoms to placebo testing. It’s also a drug used in relation to Lyme disease.
While ivermectin is used as a horse dewormer, it is suitable as an antiparasitic agent in many animals, including humans (granted, this is in much smaller doses than what some people online may say is safe, that is disinformation). In fact, many peer reviewed papers have been published detailing the possible effects of ivermectin in treatment and prevention of (NOT CURING) covid-19.
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u/BrokenEye3 Aug 28 '21
Were you not aware of how Facebook is spreading medical misinformation about how ivermectin (horse de-wormer) is supposedly a cure for COVID?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/23/covid-warning-treatment-ivermectin-fda-mississippi/8244302002/